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IcePee ,

This is yet another nail in the coffin of physical media. Or, in other words games you actually own instead of long term lease.

4vgj0e ,

Death by a thousand cuts

realcaseyrollins OP ,

IDK. Between the price tag and lack of the disc drive IDK how many people are gonna buy this thing. It’s probably just for people who HAVE to have the highest graphics, to keep them from getting a gaming PC until the PS6 is ready for them.

sanpo ,

It’s not like physical media makes any difference anyway these days.

Actual disk often gets just a glorified installer, and even if it includes the entire game you’re likely to have to activate it online anyway.

The “own your games” ship has sailed long ago, unless you only buy no-DRM and your own backups.

BombOmOm , (edited )
@BombOmOm@lemmy.world avatar

unless you only buy no-DRM and your own backups

Going to have to plug GOG here as these are both things they offer. I try to buy games there instead of Steam, purely for this reason.

tal ,
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

Going to have to plug GOG here as these are both things they offer.

Note that this is a major selling point for GOG and available on most of their library, but unlike their early days, not everything is DRM-free.

Sat ,

Maybe but look what happened to Stellar Blade

mesamunefire ,

I’m glad some companies are going full media and the younger Gen is buying physical media. It’s creating a counter culture that smart companies are using to their advantage.

Usernameblankface ,
@Usernameblankface@lemmy.world avatar

Is it possible for modern games to fit on a disk?

I think it would be an interesting change if brand new games had a hard limit on file size so they can fit on and play from an actual disk.

Eldritch ,

Absolutely. It just depends a lot on the game of course. A blueray disk can contain over 100 GB. But a game could be split over several disks too. It was rather common to do that with CDs on the original PlayStation.

Maultasche ,

A lot of Xbox 360 games came on multiple discs

conciselyverbose ,

They still have to install.

Disks are too slow.

cmnybo ,

If they use a good, 12X bluray drive, it will be quicker to install from a disk than to download it unless you’re lucky enough to have a good fiber internet connection. Even then, the servers you download from will often be overloaded and slow on release day.

conciselyverbose ,

That’s not my point. Most games do install fine from the disk.

He’s talking about playing from the disk, too, and that’s a problem.

independantiste ,
@independantiste@sh.itjust.works avatar

This in my opinion is one of the valid use cases of a blockchain/NFTs: they provide provable ownership of digital goods. This means that if implemented, in the future we could actually own games music movies ebooks etc. The only remaining step would be a decentralized torrent-like system that allows the users to download the licensed content that they own via their nft.

Drunemeton ,
@Drunemeton@lemmy.world avatar

How would that support “First Sale Doctrine”?

Zorque ,

I mean, I can actually own a bunch of stuff as long as it doesn’t have some sort of proprietary DRM bullshit attached to it.

The problem isn’t that there’s no way to obtain media in a non-bullshit way. The problem is that distributors don’t want to provide media in a non-bullshit way.

cmnybo ,

Sure, you can still own digital media, but you can’t sell or trade it like you can with a physical copy.

Zorque ,

Meh. If life weren’t so focused on material gains and losses, I wouldn’t need to.

It would also mean potential losses for the distributors, as people are (supposedly) less likely to buy directly for them.

So, again, the problem isn’t the media, it’s the distributors.

tabular , (edited )
@tabular@lemmy.world avatar

If you can’t modify it, sell it or know what the game software is even doing then calling that “ownership” would be rather lacking. I mean in terms of traditional ownership, not the modern definition: “page 69 of the EULA defines “purchasing” (the software) as a limited, non-transferable lease which can stop working at any time due to dependency on a proprietary server code we will never share I fucked your mom”.

NotMyOldRedditName , (edited )

You could sell the NFT and lose access to the game just like a disc

You wouldn’t be able to modify it as the nft would just allow you to download (edit and run) the game.

Edit: But allowing people to freely resale their digital copies would be a big win for people. No gatekeepers just like with discs

4am ,

As long as the network exists

NotMyOldRedditName , (edited )

If it’s a networked game, but there’s no reason a offline game shouldn’t work other than incompetence.

Also since the NFT is the DRM the game could be available for download outside of the publishers purview, such as a public torrent site.

independantiste ,
@independantiste@sh.itjust.works avatar

One big “advantage” (for the companies) of NFTs is that the emitter can take a commission or fee every time the NFT is sold. This can kind of alleviate their fears of people buying from each other instead of buying a new copy. I think that’s a fair middle ground for owning a fully digital copy, between physical copy that companies don’t want and digital copy that consumers don’t want.

NotMyOldRedditName , (edited )

How can they force that and not also force a fee to move it to a different wallet you own?

People change wallets all the time and putting a fee on that would be inexcusable

PunchingWood ,

The difference is the price of buying discs vs. buying from a digital store that has no competitors.

I’ve bought almost exclusively second-hand discs for my PS5, because they’re like half the price for the exact same content.

Sadly it’ll probably be just a matter of time before those will be phased out as well, one way or another.

criticon ,

It does if you rent

I’ve been using gamefly for a while, I can’t rent digital only games

AbidanYre ,

I remember thinking it was bs when half life 2 required a steam account and now everyone loves it.

pivot_root ,

For better or worse, the landscape has shifted since then. I can’t imagine people love Steam for being Steam, but rather for being the most consumer-friendly platform on PC.

Refunds? No questions asked if it’s within 2 weeks and 2 hours of playtime.

User reviews and ratings? Yes, and even comments on those reviews.

Community content? Steam discussions, guides, art, etc. Even mods with the workshop.

Bribes development studios for exclusivity deals? Nope! Devs can release games wherever the fuck they want.

Platform support? PC. Not just Windows, but going out of their way to make Linux a first class citizen. They even support Crapple despite its miniscule market share among PC gamers.

dmention7 ,

For $700 they could at least throw in a 4k Blu-ray player.

Then again, I ponied up extra for the disc version of the original ps5 for that exact reason, only to find out the media player software is a giant piece of garbage that was clearly given no effort. So I can’t say I’m too surprised.

dan , (edited )
@dan@upvote.au avatar

Or, in other words games you actually own

Newer games rarely have the entire game on the disc. Usually there’s mandatory patches that must be downloaded to play it. I’ve seen games where there’s only a few hundred MB on the disc while the whole game is maybe 15 or 20 GB.

This means you don’t really own the game, since if Sony take down the downloads for the game, you won’t actually be able to play it any more.

Essentially your choice is between a physical license key (the disc) plus a download of the game, or a digital license key plus a download of the game.

4vgj0e ,

One big reason people still play on consoles to this day is because they own a physical copy of their games and can play on their consoles even offline.

Sometimes

kitnaht , (edited )

At $700 you could build a pretty decent PC that would last a lot longer (3060 12gb, Ryzen 5 5600, 16gb of DDR4), and build a steam library that you’ll have 20 years from now. I’ve had the same monitor, keyboard and mouse for an easy 10; controllers don’t last that long. They’re reaching a point where there’s less and less of an actual argument for owning one.

dan , (edited )
@dan@upvote.au avatar

build a steam library that you’ll have 20 years from now

How do you know that Steam will be around in 20 years?

Use GOG instead. The DRM-free game installers will outlive Steam :)

woelkchen ,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

How do you know that Steam will be around in 20 years?

Use GOG instead, since the DRM-free game installers will outlive Steam :)

How do you know Windows will keep compatibility in 20 years? Valve money partially goes into Proton/WINE development and an evolution of that will absolutely be around in 20 years, just WINE was around 20 years ago already. CD Project doesn’t put any GOG/Cyberpunk money into breaking the Windows monopoly. (Also plenty of titles on Steam come without DRM because DRM is optional.)

cmnybo ,

My GOG games run great on wine, it just takes a bit more work to install them. Wine has better support for early windows games than windows does now.

dan , (edited )
@dan@upvote.au avatar

How do you know Windows will keep compatibility in 20 years?

I didn’t mention Windows anywhere in my comment? GOG has Linux versions of games too, for games with Linux ports.

plenty of titles on Steam come without DRM because DRM is optional

That’s true - for the DRM-free Steam games, you can just keep a separate backup copy of the game files. They usually run fine without Steam installed.

iAmTheTot ,

It’s kinda rich to plug Steam, where you also don’t own your games.

lowleveldata ,

Well for Steam at least the library is independent of the hardware

realcaseyrollins OP ,

And something that can run PS3, PS2 and PS1 games!

I’m sorely disappointed that none of that fancy AI-powered Sony upscaling can be put to use to any of those old games.

tal , (edited )
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

I’ve had the same monitor, keyboard and mouse for an easy 10;

I guess it depends on frequency of use, but I’ve never had a mouse last ten years. I wear through the switch on the mouse button in less than that, starts to act unreliably.

narc0tic_bird ,

Replace the 3060 with an equally-priced AMD card and you’ll actually get something decent for your money. Nvidia is horrible at these “lower” price points.

AFC1886VCC ,

I think the steam deck is genuinely the only console worth buying these days.

realcaseyrollins OP ,

I REALLY want Sony to release a handheld that can run PS1, PS2 and PS3 games 🥺

abfarid ,
@abfarid@startrek.website avatar

Vita can Run 99% of PS1 games “natively” and has a bunch of PS2 ports (some through PSP). Not PS3 though.

circuitfarmer ,
@circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Unfortunately, physical media for gaming died when always-online DRM was normalized. It doesn’t matter if you have a game on a disc when you have to phone home every time to use it. The corporation may still block your access.

One more step in ensuring no one owns anything. Lease or rent are your options.

IcePee ,

I think Sony never wanted a physical media PS5 console. The design made it seem like an after thought. Like a growth on the side of sleek lines.

Dudewitbow ,

they weren’t completely wrong now. on thier own financials, its mentioned that only 30% of game sales are physical. physical buyers are now the minority.

Imgonnatrythis ,

I still jerk off manually.

MeatsOfRage , (edited )

I’m one of those people. I just can’t be arsed to get up off the couch and put a game in. After work and kids I’m beat and just want to pick something and start playing.

Dudewitbow ,

basically market has always shown convenience often trumps ownership, music streaming, video streaming, games now. ownership is the vocal minority

MeatsOfRage ,

I’ve also just learned over the years that I just don’t go back to stuff all that much. If I finish a game, that’s it I’m done. If I really want to go back in 20 years there’s probably a PC port since there are very few console exclusives or just emulation.

ASDraptor ,

799€ here, 920€ with a disc drive. That is stupidly insane for a console. We’re almost breaking the 1000€ barrier for an “upgrade”, not even the new generation.

I’d bet my money Sony is just testing the grounds to see if they can set PS6 price in a few years over the 1k barrier.

realcaseyrollins OP ,

There’s little incentive to not go with a gaming PC instead, or to not just wait for the PS6 since I’m sure it will be cheaper

Yawweee877h444 ,

It’s too expensive. $500 is already too much for these things.

But capitalism’s gotta capitalism.

realcaseyrollins OP ,

$700 is actually probably a fair price for a PS5. You can’t really build an equivalent PC for less than that. $900 to $1,200 would probably be close to how much manufacturing the PS5 Pro costs.

But PSN subsidizes these costs, which is why these systems can be this “affordable”.

abfarid ,
@abfarid@startrek.website avatar

I doubt it costs that much. You’re looking at it from buying PC components perspective. But they are mass producing identical boards with components that are 4+ years old by now, except the GPU. The cost of production is probably around the same as it was for non-Pro when it was released.

ivanafterall ,
@ivanafterall@lemmy.world avatar

Sony has been on a roll with the boneheaded products nobody wants.

smokin_shinobi ,

700 is insane. I guess I’ll wait for the PC release of Wolverine instead of playing it on the base PS5 then. Sony really shit the bed this cycle.

kromem ,

They got off to a great start with the PS5, but as their lead grew over their only real direct competitor, they became a good example of the problems with monopolies all over again.

This is straight up back to PS3 launch all over again, as if they learned nothing.

Right on the tail end of a horribly mismanaged PSVR 2 launch.

We still barely have any current gen only games, and a $700 price point is insane for such a small library to actually make use of it.

SomeGuy69 ,
@SomeGuy69@lemmy.world avatar

Lol, e-waste

realcaseyrollins OP ,

IDK, something like this will probably be MOD. There’ll be minimal waste here.

Snowpix ,
@Snowpix@lemmy.ca avatar

Total waste of sand.

AgentGrimstone ,

So I can’t play half the games I have, and the other half doesn’t need the extra console power. Yay. WOrtH iT.

PunchingWood ,

It was pretty much a given that this would happen, since there were already options with and without disc drives.

And obviously sooner or later gaming will probably move to an entirely online service like streaming.

It’s just a matter of time until the internet and worldwide coverage is ready for it. I always imagined that in a distant future we’d basically only buy a controller, that connects to an app that’ll let you stream. And every game will be in a subscription service like a Netflix.

realcaseyrollins OP ,

Nah, they won’t do streaming cuz it’s too expensive.

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