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Student dorm does not allow wifi routers

I just moved into a student dorm for a semester abroad, and beforehand I emailed them asking whether they had ethernet ports to plug my router into (I use it to connect all my devices, and for WiVRn VR streaming). They confirmed that I could, but now that I’m here the wifi login portal is asking me to accept these terms from the ISP, which forbid plugging in a router. There’s another clause that forbids “Disruptive Devices” entirely, defined as:

“Disruptive Device” means any device that prevents or interferes with our provision of the 4Wireless to other customers (such as a wireless access point such as wireless routers) or any other device used by you in breach of the Acceptable Use Policy;

So what are my options? I don’t think I can use this service without accepting the terms, but also I was told by the student dorm support that I could bring a router, which contradicts this.

EDIT: some additional context:

  • dorm provider is a company separate from my uni (they have an agreement but that’s it)
  • ISP (ask4) is totally separate from dorm provider, and have installed a mesh network that requires an account. On account creation, there are many upsells including one for connecting more than one device. The “free” plan only allows me to sign in on a single device, and I can upgrade to two devices for 15 pounds.
  • ethernet requires login too
  • VR streaming requires a high performance wifi 6 network, which is why I bought this router (Archer C6 from tp-link)
Telorand ,

That seems pretty standard stuff. My dorm had the same policy, because they operated their own mesh network and didn’t want students sending out their own radio signals that would have absolutely made their wireless network not work well.

Is there some reason you need your own router?

ETA: The student dorm people probably meant a network switch. Regular, non-techy people don’t usually know the difference between a router and a switch.

mat OP ,
@mat@linux.community avatar

Yeah, the interference argument is fair, but I think this is also the ISP (totally separate third party) trying to protect the paid plans they sell for connecting more than one device…

cm0002 ,

trying to protect the paid plans they sell for connecting more than one device

It’s definitely 90% of the reason

Telorand ,

So it’s a network operated by a third party? That’s interesting. The handful of universities I’ve been to maintain their own.

Dark_Arc , (edited )
@Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg avatar

So most dorms don’t want you using your own routers because a bunch of student routers causes A LOT of inference.

You should probably reach out not to the dorm folks but the university networking folks as they’re the ones that will ultimately make the decision on whether or not to turn things off/disconnect you.

A cheap networking switch would probably be okay by them to get some more wired connections in your dorm room (routers aren’t really a great way to do that).

www.amazon.com/…/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?crid=3PUXDK6…

As a secondary concern, using a router will cause a double NAT for all your connected devices (universities don’t operate in the way ISPs do). That could cause some weird networking shenanigans, particularly for anything peer-to-peer like online games.

mat OP ,
@mat@linux.community avatar

That’s good advice, however this dorm is not part of my uni (just a partner to provide housing) and the internet provider whose T&C I’m expected to accept and sign up for 1y of are a totally separate legal entity, that has a bunch of upsells for stuff like “connect more than 1 device” (which my router/AP would basically be bypassing, and I think that’s what these clauses are about). About the interference, is it possible to limit it severely while still having a reliable connection just within my room? I only really want to connect:

  1. Laptop (wired)
  2. Phone
  3. VR for streaming from laptop
AreaKode ,

Assuming they have their own wifi, they just don’t want you using wifi off of your own router. A wired connection should be fine.

mat OP ,
@mat@linux.community avatar

Unfortunately, connecting to the ethernet port still prompts me to log into the network (make an account and accept these terms)

BakedCatboy ,

I would just accept the terms and disable wifi, or if you don’t want to double nat just use a switch and accept the terms / login on every device connected to the switch.

cm0002 ,

Accept the terms and ignore them

witty_username ,

And if they complain, show them your previous correspondence with them

mat OP ,
@mat@linux.community avatar

Would that work even if the T&Cs are for a third party (the ISP), while the correspondence is with my dorm provider (not legally related to my uni, they just have a partnership)?

witty_username ,

Probably not. But there is a good chance that they won’t notice at all. If they do, you can always take it down.
Maybe use an inconspicuous ssid? Like a similar name to a company or institute nearby

pivot_root ,

Turn off SSID broadcasting entirely. Hidden networks require more technical expertise to discover than most people have.

The ISP techs will still be able to find it, but there’s little reason for them to go looking when nothing seems out of the ordinary.

Ejh3k ,

100% the correct answer.

scholar ,

Looks like that tos is just for the wifi network, if you’ve got an ethernet port then that won’t be using the wifi.

mat OP ,
@mat@linux.community avatar

The ethernet connexion still requires a login/account creation/T&C acceptance sadly.

Tarquinn2049 , (edited )

If you are really worried about getting caught not following the exact rules as written, you could always pay for multi device connections… then they won’t care.

But it’s definitely possible to set up your VR router in a way that is not gonna bother anything. Most people in this thread don’t know that your VR router doesn’t need internet access. If the VR stream is all it is doing, it can be isolated from the internet, and the isp won’t know or care it exists.

The other thing about rules, that they don’t tell us autistic people, is that following rules is actually kind of optional. Certainly more optional than it feels like to us. Think about it in terms of what the people were thinking when they wrote the rules, and who will be enforcing the rules and what they will care about. And what the enforcement of the rules would look like. (In this case, the most likely initial outcome of them enforcing these rules would be either an e-mail or paper letter telling you they noticed you are breaking a rule, possibly with details to help you stop breaking it, but likely not). Try to sus out the “spirit” of the rules rather than the letter of the rules. That is how all the other humans use rules and why to us it always feels like everyone is breaking all the rules and getting away with it.

If you follow every rule to the letter… you really can’t do anything. At all. Like, literally, even we are breaking rules we don’t yet know about every single day.

pivot_root ,

You shall not use or attempt to use a device or software (such as NAT, Address Masquerading, Proxying, or the connection of an additional wireless router) that would allow you to connect more than the number of devices set out in the Service Information to the Network.

One of the ways they detect this is by checking the TTL of the packets coming from the “one” device is less than expected. If your router is using OpenWrt, you can configure an iptables rule to reset the TTL of outgoing packets to the default.

Confused_Emus ,

Not all that surprising. I don’t know of any network manager who’d happily allow rogue routers on their network, particularly if you still have it configured as a DHCP device and not a pass through device, which most college students do not consider and will very much disrupt campus network performance.

Lojcs , (edited )

Why does the dhcp on the router affect the main network? I’d think if it has its own network the main network would only need to deal with the router, as opposed to all the devices connected to the router if it was passthrough?

Confused_Emus , (edited )

Because that router will be broadcasting DHCP signals and offering IPs, conflicting with the authorized DHCP servers on the network. This wiki article will probably explain it better. I’m not so good with the words an such.

Lojcs ,

I don’t know much about networking but that page seems to be about someone else setting up a dhcp server without the knowledge of the administrators or the users. In op’s case the concerns about mitm attacks don’t apply and the other concerns sound like problems that could arise in cases of misconfiguration or if the users aren’t aware they’re connected to a different network. I also couldn’t see anything about it affecting the main network’s performance

Confused_Emus ,

I mean, it’s all right there in the first two paragraphs. Keep in mind that by DHCP server we aren’t talking about something specifically set up by people with malicious intent. A home router is a DHCP server when not configured for pass through. Students who don’t know how routers actually work (we can’t all be IT nerds, lol) plug them into their dorm Ethernet jack, and now you’ve got an unauthorized device offering IP addresses that conflict with the authorized DHCP servers, which can quickly start causing issues with any new devices trying to connect to the network, and existing devices as their DHCP leases expire. Also keep in mind that we’re talking about a college network that will likely have local network resources for students like shared drives that would not be accessible to anyone connecting through the rogue device. Your IT department will quickly start getting complaints about the network that are caused by an access point you have no control over.

Lojcs ,

I see, I thought routers knew not to do dhcp on the Wan port

AbidanYre , (edited )

They do know enough to not send DHCP leases upstream…

flappy ,

If you plug the dorm ethernet jack into the LAN side of a consumer router, there’s a chance they don’t.

Sure, you can catch this if you watch the dhcp leases your router is handing out, but…

AbidanYre ,

I’m assuming OP is at least smart enough to know that the port that’s on its own/a different color/somehow different from the others is the one that goes into the wall. It sounds like they have at least that level of competence.

Confused_Emus , (edited )

I’m sure OP is given the more technical nature of Lemmy users. But this thread is about the average college student with no networking knowledge.

ETA: Sorry that I specified you weren’t talking about the same thing the rest of us were in this thread.

Confused_Emus , (edited )

Which is all well and good until you get someone who plugs both connections into the LAN ports.

Downvoting just because I pointed out a scenario you didn’t think of isn’t so classy.

AbidanYre ,

No. I’m downvoting because your first comments stated it will happen if the router is set up to offer leases. Not that it could happen if a user ignores the quick start guide that says “plug this port into the wall.” Then got all pissy with that other guy who pointed out that your article was about DHCP servers, not routers.

Confused_Emus ,

I’m not getting pissy about anything. That’s projection on your part, reading a tone that wasn’t there. Just because you’re in a bad mood today doesn’t mean the rest of the internet is.

Confused_Emus ,

Typically they do. Which is great until you get a student who doesn’t understand WAN vs LAN and plugs both connections into the LAN port. Never underestimate the power of a Stupid User.

bamboo ,

A consumer router only operates DHCP on the LAN side. Presumably one would plug the WAN side into the university network, making this a non-issue.

Confused_Emus ,

Ah! I just saw you specified if it’s configured for pass through. If it is configured for pass through, then yeah it likely won’t cause issues on the network. The DHCP server is the critical bit.

From a network management perspective, though, they still won’t want these because you have to trust all these college students are going to properly configure their devices - most of them won’t know how and won’t bother figuring it out. And then you still have the issue of a bunch of unmanaged access points to your network, which is just poor security.

nomous ,

Yeah a simple little unmanaged switch would solve all these issues for about $20 and probably wouldn’t break the ToS.

Confused_Emus ,

Yeah. I think OP’s issue is they may have a few devices that are wireless only. Not sure of the best way to handle those.

nomous ,

Ah yeah just saw they specifically want to connect a VR headset wirelessly. I’m not real sure how to approach that either, if there’s any kind of port on the headset at all they could potentially adapt it to RJ45 but that defeats the whole point.

If a wireless connection is a must OP is just going to have to disable SSID broadcast, restrict it to certain MACs, and try to lock it down as much as possible and hope for the best. If they do it right it’ll won’t interfere with other devices and no one will ever know.

Lojcs ,

I just saw you specified if it’s configured for pass through.

I didn’t, that’s just bad grammar. Edited the comment

mat OP ,
@mat@linux.community avatar

I’d be happy to set my device to passthrough mode, but I think the ISP prevents peer-to-peer connections (which my laptop would make to the VR headset) unless you buy one of their plans for Chromecast/smart TVs. Would that prevent it from working? And would I still be able to connect multiplw devices despite their one-device limit?

Confused_Emus ,

It’s hard to say without knowing all the details of how the college configures their network. Back when I was in college, I had a student job with the campus’ IT department, and students running into issues getting all their devices connected was a regular issue at the start of every year.

The main problem with most college networks is that you’ve typically got an enterprise setup that’s also having to double as home internet service for those living on campus. Depending on when the network was built it was likely only planning for students to have a laptop, maybe a desktop too, as opposed to modern times when just about every electronic device has an internet connection.

Some things just may not work like they did at home.

mat OP ,
@mat@linux.community avatar

That’s fair yeah. In my case the dorms are a separate unrelated company from the uni (they just have a partnership) and the ISP is yet another third party that did the install and sells extras to each student. I think it’s pretty scummy since I read my whole dorm contract and it never said this would be a condition to the “free fast wifi” access.

Confused_Emus ,

Eww, yeah, that sounds like a crappy setup to milk more money from students with no other option - especially if you’ve got student aid requiring you to live in school housing.

You may want to see about getting your own wireless carrier internet service. Not the best solution, but at least it would be yours and unrestricted.

mat OP ,
@mat@linux.community avatar

I’m only staying for a semester (via Erasmus, or what remains of it post-Brexit) so while I did consider this I don’t think it’s very viable.

Confused_Emus ,

Fair enough. My recommendation would be set the router to pass through and see if it works. Just secure the wireless network created by your AP - be a responsible network policy violator!

I don’t really have any other ideas that wouldn’t involve additional hardware, which doesn’t make much since give the short time you’ll be there.

Lojcs ,

Is there a limit to the number of devices allowed to connect that this rule is trying to enforce?

Either way, if the vr headset doesn’t need internet connection you could connect your computer to the internet wirelessly and to your own router via cable for vr.

zutto ,
@zutto@lemmy.fedi.zutto.fi avatar

I’m not advocating for breaking any rules, but many people dont know that you can hide your wifi routers SSID. even fewer people know how to track these networks.

mp3 ,
@mp3@lemmy.ca avatar

Most commercial networks systems have the ability to detect rogue access points by analysing the radio spectrum, and hiding the SSID will not avoid detection once traffic starts flowing to it.

And they can triangulate the position of the rogue AP.

mat OP ,
@mat@linux.community avatar

Interesting about hiding SSIDs, I never knew why that option existed. I’m here on Erasmus so I don’t want to risk too much by knowingly breaking rules… them triangulating it to my room and starting a legal case or something sounds real scary.

cm0002 ,

them triangulating it to my room and starting a legal case or something sounds real scary.

It’s also incredibly unlikely unless you’re actually causing problems

If you really want wireless, do the Ethernet > Desktop/Laptop with hotspot and limit it’s TX power WAY down to minimal levels.

You should be able to use it within your dorm room fine, but will have trouble penetrating beyond the walls and will also make detecting and triangulation quite difficult

mat OP ,
@mat@linux.community avatar

So technically I should get away with connecting the router and making an AP right? I can’t do a hotspot from my laptop because the performance is not high enough for streaming (this is why I bought a dedicated router).

cm0002 ,

In that case I would pickup a cheap USB Ethernet dongle (or 2 if the laptop doesn’t have an onboard one)

Wall > Ethernet 1 and router > Ethernet 2

Configure windows to share Ethernet 1 connection to Ethernet 2 (Builtin functionality since Windows 7 iirc)

Configure the router for minimal power to the radios, use your laptop to handle captive portal and there should be no DHCP interference concerns with the Windows laptop on the middle in this fashion

Boom done, congratulate yourself a lil for a small win over corporate greed lol

mp3 ,
@mp3@lemmy.ca avatar

Also, connecting an access point that doesn’t broadcast its SSID has another side effect: all devices configured to connected to it will periodically broadcast a signal to search for that hidden AP instead, so it makes you even easier to track down anywhere else.

pivot_root ,

That’s assuming they’re actively looking. Hiding your SSID is more to prevent someone from getting suspicious and calling out the ISP.

Cephalotrocity ,

Pretty sure you could end around their TOS by connecting a PC with 2 Ethernet ports to the provider’s internet and connect your router to the PC with the 2nd port. In the PC’s OS bridge the 2 ports together, and disable the routers firewall.

noride ,

It’s a security\legal risk to allow adhoc wireless networks within your environment, pretty much any organization above a certain size has the same restrictions.

You could theoretically allow anyone to access your router directly, which would let them bypass agreeing to the Acceptable Use Policy, for example, shifting liability back to the organization for that users behavior.

_thebrain_ ,

I would set up your router, turn off ssid broadcast and forget about it. It’s doubtful they have the equipment to find an access point that doesn’t actively announce itself to the world .

Edit: it means you will have to manually add your wifi network to your devices by typing in the ssid on them but other than that there shouldn’t be any issues

stoly ,

They will find it. Hidden is a software switch and your device just doesn’t show it. It’s still being advertised, however.

pivot_root ,

If they go looking. It’s unlikely they went out of their way to purchase and configure specialized devices in the building to catch it proactively.

2xsaiko ,
@2xsaiko@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

I’m in a similar situation. Before I had to move all was fine, I had a single ethernet port I plugged my router into. It even had a static IPv4 (even though no IPv6 but I could just use tunnelbroker). Literally perfect.

After I moved I’m now stuck in this horribly designed network that has a stupid internet cafe tier login portal even for wired devices, unencrypted wifi, seemingly every single device from every student on the same network (I am getting blasted with other people’s broadcast packets and I’m pretty sure the network congestion from that is where my weird intermittent packet loss comes from). And now I don’t have any public IP address at all.

Whoever they hired to set this up is an absolute moron who has no idea about network security or how to make an efficient network and considering the internet cafe login portal probably likes to cause as much suffering as possible. (Not saying I’m necessarily qualified but the fact alone that I can connect to other people’s AirPlay devices means they failed at both.)

And the reason all of this is a problem is that they also don’t allow putting a router/firewall in front so I can get a sane network. Had to tear down pretty much all the infrastructure I set up in the old place because a lot of it was relying on me having control over the network. Of course, I knew none of this before I moved in, I was explicitly looking for internet shenanigans in the contract.

I now have a janky Wireguard mesh network setup with one of the machines being the IPv6 gateway. Awful but at least I have public addresses and IPv6 (and with that a bit of my own network space) again.

mat OP ,
@mat@linux.community avatar

y e p, I feel your pain (but I know way less about networking than it seems like you do haha, still haven’t made the jump to ipv6 myself)

peanuts4life ,
@peanuts4life@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I wonder if you could just use your PC to hotspot when you need to use VR.

bluGill ,

if you have what support soid in writing then ask student legal (most universities give you free lawyer access, use it) but in general specific advice like this will in court override what the eula says. The person who said you could should of course be fired but that isn't your problem.

in the us fcc rules say these are unlicensed bands and they cannot make those rules about any radio. However the eula seems to be about wifi use but connecting their network to wifi and that difference is in their favor. If you get your own network connection (how?) You can bring your own wifi but don't connect theirs.

mat OP ,
@mat@linux.community avatar

Woah, that’s really cool. I’ll contact my uni to ask about it and I guess for now use a phone data hotspot and skip on VR.

CaptainBasculin ,

You can disable your router’s wireless networking (or hide its SSID if you want to use wireless networking). It won’t be an issue if you use either way. Since your dorm told you that you could use a router; these terms wont matter.

SzethFriendOfNimi ,
@SzethFriendOfNimi@lemmy.world avatar

Note that hiding its SSID won’t turn off the wireless broadcast which would be adding to the “noise” in whatever channel it’s using.

In this case you would want to turn off the wireless itself

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