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obinice ,
@obinice@lemmy.world avatar

I really need to ween myself off the Internet so that, once it becomes an unusable hellhole in the next 20 years or so, I’ll be able to give it up entirely and move on to better things.

Sjotroll ,

Yeah, I’ve never even thought about modern life without the use of internet for everything else other than professional work, just like I’ve never thought possible for me to stop using Reddit. But now thanks to spez I stopped using Reddit, and I can now really imagine a world where I don’t surf the internet for fun. Part of me wants the internet to become an unusable hellhole.

mexicancartel ,

There will always be websites for us. Better websites who care about their users. Websites that still support firefox. So we only need to stay away from the hellhole websites and chromium based browsers

diyrebel ,

The problem is search engines have proven not to keep up with our needs. Sites trashed up with cookie popups, subscription nags, and CAPTCHAs are making it into the highest ranks of search results. Cloudflare sites in particular.

mexicancartel ,

I didn’t say many sites will be favourable for us. But atleast there will be some sites.

We have have wiby.me for search websites with no fancy graphics, and all your concerns. Results are usually programmer centric though. Tried for 2-3 hours to find the name of this search engine lol

diyrebel , (edited )

I was thrilled when .me was first introduced. Then for a while wiby.me was itself a Tor-hostile Cloudflare site. I’m glad you brought it up because it prompted me to check again & it seems at the moment wiby is a user-respecting non-Cloudflare site. Note there was another search engine similar to wiby which I can’t track down right now… but it’s possible I’m confusing that other one with wiby. Err… I think both were unusable for a while.

(edit) The other site is search·marginalia·nu. That’s the one that became a despicable CF site. I think wiby broke down for tor users for a while but glad to see at the moment that it’s still usable. I just got good results when searching for a recipe.

CummandoX ,

Alright, today is oficially the day I switch to Firefox

sheogorath ,

Come here, I left Firefox when Chrome first released, however after the Firefox Quantum release, I got back to using Firefox again. The container tabs feature is very useful to create a separate container for each project that I’m involved in. It’s like having multiple browsers without needing to install multiple browsers.

Although I still keep Vivaldi and Edge installed to visit some websites that doesn’t work correctly with Firefox.

ElvenMithril ,

Yay!

MarkHughes4096 ,

Firefox, DuckDuckGo, Protonmail is my setup. I am slowy getting away from Google and all massive corps tbh, I’m spending more time on my Linux partition too.

Koba ,

this is why I’m switching to firefox

LemmyRefugee ,

I think the key is not Firefox but Apple. If Apple does not join the DRM web future, Google cannot force it.

Corgana ,
@Corgana@startrek.website avatar

Unfortunately Apple has a much worse track record than Google when it comes to giving it’s customers control over their own hardware and software.

christian ,
@christian@lemmy.ml avatar

I’m using an android phone because apple doesn’t allow anything like fdroid to exist on iphone.

Auli ,

Apple well support it if the web as a whole does.

TheCee ,
@TheCee@programming.dev avatar

Well… httptoolkit.com/…/apple-private-access-tokens-att…

seasonone OP ,

Apple has already joined DRN web future. Read Here:- opidea.xyz/post/4785

Widowmaker_Best_Girl ,

Yeah, but fuck if I am ever going to use Apple products when they treat their users like dumbasses who aren’t allowed to own what they buy.

Promptly_Counting ,
@Promptly_Counting@lemmy.world avatar

Bro tried to counter Google with Apple, which is arguably worse.

LemmyRefugee ,

I was talking about number of users, not evil companies.

-sent with my iPhone ultraX

MonkderZweite , (edited )

Welp, there we go.

I’m working on the contrary, some sort of gemini web plus with modules, to keep the engine as small as possible to make porting/reinventions easier. The engine only provides basics like displaying text. Modules provide functionality like ‘video player’, gallery’, ‘search bar with filters’, ‘login’, keeping webshops, company pages, etc. in mind. There’s no JS or CSS, the styling is entirely in the hand of the browser/user (including dark mode, mobile view), the servers push only content. Likewise, active logins and payments will be handled by the browser, not the webpage. Though it will not be compatible with HTTPS/the current web. The protocol and the browser will be licensed open source.

I’m still planning, it’s not even in the prototype phase yet. Should i push this further? If so, how would i get financial support? opentech.fund, ngi.edu, nlnet?

Alperto ,

Related: lemmy.world/post/2235459

So, we will be forced to see ads, while they can’t yet control who’s publishing those ads. I wonder why Google (and any other ad company) hasn’t been sued yet for showing and infecting malware into the people who click on their ads. Maybe is not that critical or easy for a domestic user, but corporations or governments?

And it’s not because it’s impossible to verify malware before accepting their ads, it’s because THEY DONT CARE. If they can detect music on videos for copyright claims, they can analyze everything, they can also verify publishers. And if they can’t with an algorithm, they should use humans to manually verify publishers.

MercuryUprising ,

Yeah, but doing that won’t get them bonuses for hitting KPIs. They let the malware through because it means the company buying the adspace is buying adspace. Everything else doesn’t factor into their targets and quarterly goals.

Chunk ,

Facebook literally facilitated a genocide in Myanmar. These companies are not legally liable for anything they serve.

faintedheart ,

Will use firefox until it gets broken into pieces. I would rather stop using the internet other than for necessary situations.

MercuryUprising ,

Yeah, 100%. I would pretty much rather just use whatever underground internet pops up to replace the advertising based one. Advertisements are one of those things that I absolutely cannot stand.

vacuumflower ,

It doesn’t have to be underground at all, they are not yet making ads and DRM parts of TCP.

BorgDrone ,

I don’t trust Mozilla either. They have demonstrated on multiple occasions that they are willing to trade their user’s privacy and security for money. Example 1, Example 2. Both examples show extremely poor judgement from Mozilla. I no longer trust them to put the user first.

For now I’m sticking with Safari. At least there I’m the paying customer, and since I’m already running macOS/iOS I don’t need to trust an additional party.

Jmr ,

They have a similar system. Private Access Tokens

clegko ,
@clegko@lemmy.world avatar

Wow, two very small issues that Mozilla has done and quickly listened to user feedback and walked it back. Totally a legit reason to not use it.

BorgDrone ,

Installing software on your computer without your consent is not a small issue. The fact that they even considered it, let alone let it go into production shows serious problems with their judgement.

Cedarwood ,

For real. Google continues to seriously underestimate my infinite loathing for ads. I will uninternet myself

willow ,
@willow@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

The thing is, Google has been a major donor to Mozilla Foundation from the start. Google has been financially supporting Firefox to deflect the accusations of Chrome being a monopoly.

markon ,

That’s what I’m feeling too. If all the end to end encryption is banned, and the new kid safety act passes here in the US those will just be more nails in the coffin. It’s so sad to me never it’s been a huge part of my life. If it comes to that I’ll miss you all.

vacuumflower ,

I’m not even upset. Yeah, it’s finally clear that it’s not our late 90s and early 00s Web anymore.

So what? What it’s magic was based on wasn’t so technologically or computationally complex, FFS. There’s been plenty of hypertext systems, some distributed. There are some hobbyist ones now, like Gemini again.

I’m looking forward to the niche being filled by better solutions, made after the experience of WWW as it was. It’s amazingly cool.

brygphilomena ,

Their examples are business issues where they want a tech solution.

These are working on a foundation that the internet today, with all it’s venture capital money, “free” websites and services that run at a loss is how the internet should look. So they are building technical solutions to force some “trust” facilitate this internet. If a business or website cannot function or be profitable without this, that company does not deserve to survive. It’s putting businesses ahead of users.

It works off the assumption that websites should know who the person visiting their website is (or that it’s even a human.)

IMO, we need to return to the assumption that users are anonymous and remind people that you don’t know who is on the other side so we should not trust at all.

Auli ,

And we would not have the internet we have today without this. Do people want to go back to static sites forums and all that? I mean this stuff costs money and people don’t want to pay with cash so what is the option?

kava ,

Oh no, how will the multi billion dollar companies survive i feel so much pity. They deserve more money you’re right

fsxylo ,

Fuuuuck yes I do.

zyS7 ,

Seriously, what the fuck is this guy on? Do I want individual forums with independent communities and separate identities in each of them? You’re goddamn right I do!

phillaholic ,

You remember what site you’re on right?

itsmaxyd ,

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain

edgerunnergit ,

They have become the villain a long time back.

amcjv12 ,

Fuckers

fsxylo ,

Basically adware.

opt9 ,

Google controls way too much. People need to stop using their products. Many people complaining right now are still using Google stuff. If everyone concerned stop using Google stuff, that would cause them to reconsider very quickly.

postmateDumbass ,

Anti trust target.

opt9 ,

I think they are too big for that. They are more powerful than many nation states.

catathreniameh ,

I still find it ironic that I use their products (Pixel) specifically to not use their products (GrapheneOS). Though in the past it was OnePlus with LinageOS.

opt9 ,

It is ironic, but the Pixel is good piece of hardware. So you discard the crap (Google software) and keep what is good (the hardware). That is the way forward. Discard chrome, keep Chromium or Brave for example.

ElvenMithril ,

Firefox you ment, right?; )

opt9 ,

Well I was referring to keeping the good that comes out of Google and discarding the bad. Firefox, actually librewolf is superior but has nothing to do with Google.

void_wanderer ,

I’m genuinely curious. Is it feasible that they maintain their own chromium forks, or will the work become too much if Google keeps inserting more and more crap into it?

opt9 ,

There are already several projects based on Chromium that are very well established such as Edge, Brave, Vivaldi, and Opera. The project will continue just fine without Google if need be. If they all resist the changes together, Google will have a problem. I’m not expecting anything from Microsoft, but the others might.

Korkki ,

Google controls way too much. People need to stop using their products.

At his point it’s like saying stop using the internet. Also most don’t even have the freedom to totally ditch google, since time and effort and knowledge of alternatives are still a scarce resources. Also work and school might be tied to their products. I fear they are too big to fail. This btw why any sort of Open source, crypto, fediverse shit is only the second best option in my option when taking on the tech giants. My preferred option would be total nationalization of big tech platforms and handling them as public utilities. Drop them under some new UN institution and we would golden.

opt9 ,

At his point it’s like saying stop using the internet. No it’s not, there are plenty of very good alternatives. I know because I haven’t used anything Google in years and I fully engage with society. People just have to put in some effort and stop being spoiled babies and whining all the time when everything is not given to them ready to use and free.

My preferred option would be total nationalization of big tech platforms and handling them as public utilities. Sounds good, but you forget that governments in the West are simply employees of the big corps and banks. It would be the same shit, probably worse because now they wouldn’t have to pretend.

Korkki ,

but you forget that governments in the West are simply employees of the big corps and banks.

True, or it’s more like private public blob, with the private part dominating, but better to have nominal democratic and legistlative control than total corporate impunity to make and change the rules as the go and only being limited with nominal legislation by corporate puppet government. Also I mean something trans national, like the UN. obviously just giving all social media to their respective governments would just lead to same problems and wold still just leave the social media sphere into a plaything of US gov, that it is already, (and that why it will never happen because it would require US gov cooperating). But the minimal gain from all this would be that it would be only the government spying on you, not both government and the corporations.

NutWrench ,
@NutWrench@lemmy.world avatar

If a website stops working because it won’t let you block ads, then THEY’RE the one with the problem, not us. I won’t stop blocking advertising just because some company decides that my home is their place of business and says it’s “not allowed.”

The Internet is designed to route around damage (like the kind of damage caused by companies that try to make parts of it unusable). Folks will create new, open-source browsers, or flock to alternative websites that respect their privacy (and property).

NutWrench ,
@NutWrench@lemmy.world avatar

Yup. Start by not using Google’s search engine. Use DuckDuckGo, instead.

opt9 ,

Duckduck is definitely a good start, but keep in mind it just anonymizes Google search for you. Brave, Quant, Mojeek and more have indexed their own databases. We need entirely different setups to get around Google’s massive censorship and opinion shaping algos that Duckduck cannot bypass. Searx is also interesting as it allows you to choose from a large list of different search engines.

hak8or ,

How is the experience of using those search engines with their own indexes? At quick glance, brave seems adequate, but would like to know what others think.

opt9 ,

I think they are pretty good, and return some stuff that is censored out of Google and Bing. And if I don’t find what I’m looking for, its very easy to use Bing which is pretty similar to Google. Microsoft is no better than Google, but we can let them serve us when it suits us, rather than the other way around.

ZeekMacard ,
@ZeekMacard@feddit.cl avatar

I thought that Duckduck Go used Bing and the one who anonymizes Google is Start Page, or both do that?

opt9 ,

Its the other way around. Startpage uses Bing.

Liz ,

I’d use Ecosia. Private searching that also plants trees.

www.ecosia.org

LakesLem ,

Trouble is that means using an iPhone. I just came from there. Apple suck in their own unique ways and are no better really.

opt9 ,

iPhone is far from the only alternative out there. There are plenty of de-Googled solutions for Android like LineageOs. If you are more technically inclined, Graphene is superior to iphone in security also. These solutions can make use of the playstore or proxy it through Aurora depending on your personal preferences.

LakesLem ,

At least one of them requires buying a Google phone to install it on :)

In fact probably all decent compatible phones still involve licensing fees to Google in the purchase price, all of the “alternative” OSes still rely on Google to develop the code base that they copy and strip down, etc. The only other one I can think of is Ubuntu phone, which would be so incomplete you might as well carry a dumbphone at that point.

opt9 ,

Yes, the Pixel is a very good piece of hardware once you remove the crap software. If not the Pixel, there are plenty of other phone manufacturers around the world. Purism is another interesting option. Android is an open source project and Google cannot shut it down. There will always be ways. The majority are actually pretty smart and capable, just afraid of change. They wake up at some point though.

sagrotan ,
@sagrotan@lemmy.world avatar

They can try. Maybe it gets more people to learn about pinhole or other adblocking, with a little bit of luck it even rescues one or two people from the claws of windows.

Quarkey ,

What do you think are the best alternatives to windows?

absGeekNZ ,
@absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz avatar

For a Windows user, Linux Mint is a nice alternative, similar interface and very stable.

Especially if you are mostly using browser based tools.

hexed ,
@hexed@reddthat.com avatar

TempleOS is pretty sweet.

sagrotan ,
@sagrotan@lemmy.world avatar

If you’re really wanna learn, I recommend the arcolinux way, they start simple and take you on a tour. Just arcolinux.com. if you want something, that simply works without any effort: Ubuntu, mint, or any other recommendations here. I myself started with Suse many years ago, and that was a mess, to be honest. But: it forced me to learn. And we are best, when we are forced to learn. Humans are hardwired that way, I think.

Im1Random ,

But it looks like that only affects users of the Chrome Browser right?

BorgDrone ,

No, this means that websites that use this simply refuse to work at all on non-Chrome browsers.

cmhe ,

For now. Embrace (creating a good open source browser, that now most people use), Extend (it with additional features, like this), Extinguish (other browsers, that are not implementing these features by making big sites like youtube depend on them or provide a worse experince, lower quality, delayed content releases, exclusive content)

zorlan ,
@zorlan@aussie.zone avatar

Chrome has dominant market share. If this takes off and Firefox refuses to adapt some websites might just become completely inaccessible.

cyborganism ,

“Google engineers want…”

No. Google executives want this to happen. Google’s CEO wants this to happen.

They want to change the internet and remove any little bit of freedom for their own corporate profits.

Fuck “do no evil” Google.

firadin ,

Are the Google executives the ones that are going to write it?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

No, Indian people on H-1B visas desperate for a better life are going to write it.

cyborganism ,

Holy shit. This! ☝️☝️☝️

Chunk ,

Google execs incentivize engineers to build shit by dangling promotions to those who participate.

hak8or ,

Why not both, Google engineers and Google execs? If you’ve ever looked at how Google engineers talk on the Linux kernel mailing lists, and their code in android internals, they tend to have a “we know best” or holier than thou attitude.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see this trash also coming from the same kind of Google developers who act like that.

cyborganism ,

These engineers are just trying to keep their job. There’s probably a lead or a manager somewhere in line with upper management involved in this and looking over the developers’ shoulders.

b000urns ,
@b000urns@lemmy.world avatar

Do? No, evil.

rambaroo ,

Google engineers can work anywhere they want. They’re responsible for this shit too. Tech is full of greedy devs with no ethics.

cyborganism ,

That’s a narrow way to view things. Google hires a LOT of people with work visas that tie them to the company.

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