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Ataraxia ,
@Ataraxia@lemmy.world avatar

Ah yes kill the internet. I’m OK with that.

Krolan ,

So, Google, the Overlord of the Internet apperantly, wishes to make his Kingdom an uninhabitable hellscape of constant ad harrassment that anyone who wants to keep their sanity will interact with as little as possible, only going there when necessary.

Ok, then. Good luck with that Business.

Just wondering, will one day Humanity, who has pretty much agreed in perfect unison completely independent from each other, since the golden age of television, that we all hate ads, finally be heard?

xmax3 ,

Humanity, who has pretty much agreed […] that we all hate ads

Yeah, I thought that too, but there is a lot of people who find those television ads “so funny” and actually like to watch them. Some naive people (there’s a lot of them) will be perfect preys for this DRM & ads crap.

flustered ,

Don’t blame the engineers. It’s leadership.

stevedidWHAT ,
@stevedidWHAT@lemmy.world avatar

What if the engineer is trying to be a leadership

dinckelman ,

Google engineers are making my chances of using a Chromium-based browser (near) impossible

WingedThing ,
@WingedThing@lemmy.one avatar

What about search engines? DDG and bing suck ass, google is the only of the three that returns results that actually remotely match what I type in.

fje ,

I can recommend qwant.com

solitarius ,

I use search.brave.com, it works for me.

FluffyPotato ,

That used to be the case but now Google is giving me like a page worth of AI generated pages as a result that all have a different answer. DDG is absolutely useless for sites in my native language but for everything else it beats Google.

thanks_shakey_snake ,

DDG works great for me…? Like one out of fifty searches maybe I go “Hmm, bad results, let me try Google,” but it almost always works as well as Google with less noise.

hairinmybellybutt ,

Even if they do that, some people will just create illegal website mirrors that remove ads.

On reddit, people already copy paste articles when there’s a paywall. I can totally envision that thing to be more common.

I am not fucking kidding, I will stop using websites if I cannot block ads. This is non negotiable. I don’t care about your business model, I have zero money to give you. I tried the official reddit app, and uninstalled within a week.

solitarius ,

I’ve even seen websites that copy stackoverflow questions and answers word for word, and just displays them differently.

thanks_shakey_snake ,

I think that’s spammy SEO abuse though… Not circumventing ads or anything.

_cerpin_taxt_ ,

Well if the OG source uses DRM, fuck em! I don’t care if Google’s search engine goes to shit. Not sure how much shittier it can get, but fuck em!

_cerpin_taxt_ ,

I said this the other day and had a user suggest theirs no point because Google will win, and it’ll be impossible to avoid this DRM garbage. They didn’t seem to grasp that you can just not use the websites that use that tech.

hairinmybellybutt ,

I won’t use them then, and go offline I guess

TheProtagonist ,

Same here. Actually I uninstalled the official Reddit app within a day after seeing all these ads. My web experience is almost completely ad-free and if some ad or site comes around with ads ir user tracking, I don’t use it.

I haven’t watched any un-proxied YouTube video for over five years now. Not sure how long this will still be possible in the future but I hope that also in the future people will find ways to circumvene big-tech surveillance.

MonsiuerPatEBrown ,

It was not hilarious when MS tried to control stuff like this with IE.

This is a boring fight, and it is why tech companies need a broken up and a kick in the profits/pants.

legion ,
@legion@lemmy.world avatar

Use Firefox.

Support Firefox.

Using alternative Chromium based browsers is not it.

darreninthenet ,

I absolutely would if I could get it to run decently on my Mac… it just slows to a crawl, especially page scrolling. I’m stuck on Edge for now, but having a look at Orion as an alternative

vimdiesel ,

I’ve been using firefox almost exclusively on my macs for years. It never gives me any issues.

donut4ever ,

It works for me with zero issues on my MBP.

darreninthenet ,

Aye so people keep telling me, I wish I knew what was causing my issues as would much rather be using it - prefer the UI, the customisation etc but the performance I just had to give up on the end.

I see the Reddit BS of downvoting stuff people disagree with has moved to Lemmy as well… Won’t take long for the morons to ruin open conversations on here as well 🙄🤦🏻‍♂️

aeternum ,

you might try waterfox. It's a stripped down firefox. Might work for you better?

Waitwuhtt ,

Firefox is wonderful 💯

voluble ,

Can someone shed some light for me? I’m a noob and I’m not sure I understand what is being proposed by google here. From what I can tell, they’re proposing a cryptographically signed token that details information about a website user’s ‘environment’, which I take to mean, their device OS and browser information. Isn’t this sort of information already collected when a user visits a webpage, and doesn’t google (or whomever) already collect and use this data (and more) for fingerprinting? How is this new proposal different, and something to be specifically concerned about?

I know there are anti-fingerprinting browser privacy addons that spoof this information, or prevent its collection. Is the concern that these tools will become inoperable?

For the record I don’t like google or any company collecting any fingerprinting information, but it’s already being done widely and in an unregulated manner, isn’t it?

balance_sheet ,

Using the proposed “Web Environment Integrity” means websites can select on which devices (browsers) they wish to be displayed, and can refuse service to other devices. It binds client side software to a website, creating a silo’d app. Web Environment Integrity on GitHub This penalizes platforms on which the preferred client side software is not available.

From Young-Lord/fight-for-the-open-web.

This will also affect all the Chromium based clients (Chrome, obviously, Brave, Vivaldi…)

USE FIREFOX(Librewolf), PEOPLE. SUPPORT THE OPENWEB

voluble , (edited )

The thought here is that, a website could be programmed to, for example, only be accessible to users of chrome (or even an android device), correct? Other than google itself, why would any website want to do such a thing? Is the idea that google is trying to bring users to chrome, by blocking google services on other browsers? That could be really transformative for the web, because then you’d have microsoft doing the same thing with edge, apple doing the same thing with safari, other companies like fb or whatever launching their own bespoke ‘browsers’ to access their services. Will users actually put up with the degree of fragmentation that this move might bring? Won’t it just push users to the ‘old internet’ where you can simply go to a website and interact with it?

Sorry, I’m kind of talking out loud here trying to wrap my head around this. I see people grousing about DRM and ads, and I’m struggling to connect all the dots.

Kortalh ,

I can’t speak for how other people browse, but when I come across an article with a paywall, I tend to say “eh, it wasn’t that important anyway” and leave. Or if it really is important, I’ll search for the title and try to find the information on a site without a paywall.

If there ends up being a “browser wall”, I’ll certainly do the same thing. No article/web app is so important or unique that it’s worth quitting my preferred browser (Firefox) and switching to something I like less.

But what’s scary to me, as a Firefox user, is that Chrome & Safari are so extremely dominant. If companies are forced to choose between supporting Chrome (60% share), Safari (20% share), or Firefox (3% share), it’s clear that Firefox users will run out of sites to use pretty quickly.

voluble ,

Right, if this sort of browser wall thing happens (which, the doctrine of enshittification seems to dictate that it probably will), and it can’t be spoofed or worked around. Alright, I’m seeing the issues here. Thanks for chiming in with your thoughts. This is a huge deal, if it goes in this sort of direction.

elmiar ,

Who’s seeing a pattern here?

YouTube and other platforms increasing ads Meta being Meta Twitter becoming X Reddit fucking API and the platform itself Now, Google coming up with their policies

Are we entering an era where we are silently being forced into becoming customers to these big monopolies, and being under constant surveillance?

Like what the fuck do they want, they already control every fucking thing, what more they want still? What they try to commodify still?

makyo ,

It’s the entshitification of the internet which if you follow Doctorow you already know about. It seems to be spreading to non-web properties now too like obviously cars are trying to lock things behind subscription services.

I think there is a silver lining here and that is federated tech like this site is finally getting some attention as a real alternative to reddit/twitter/etc. Even better would be some real extreme trustbusting as a reaction from our governments but seeing as that would hurt their investments I’m not holding my breath.

makyo ,

This is me too. I mean I have most browsers installed for various reasons but I use Firefox unless I absolutely must use another browser for something. I suppose if things do fragment in the way that is implied above that’ll become more and more common.

boonhet ,

Other than google itself, why would any website want to do such a thing

Web devs can be pretty lazy and only want to support Chrome anyway. If Chrome is the only browser offering certain features (“proof” that user is human, potentially getting rid of adblockers altogether, etc), that’s a good excuse to finally just stop supporting Firefox and Safari.

Ace_of_spades ,

Didn’t Microsoft try and do this with Silverlight back in the day?

SwampYankee ,

Other than google itself, why would any website want to do such a thing? Is the idea that google is trying to bring users to chrome, by blocking google services on other browsers?

Sounds like an open and shut anti-trust case if any governments care to pursue it.

jtmetcalfe ,

I can’t imagine anyone who uses the internet thinking the current ad technology is effective, the web is broken because of ads

dartos ,

Bc of ads? Ads are mostly fine, the web is broken because of platforms. Like there’s only a handful of sites the entire planet uses and they’re all owned by like 4 tech giants (and Reddit)

vacuumflower ,

It’s broken because of platforms working for people, which happens because there’s not too much, but too little fragmentation.

For a couple decades corps and their fans were communicating from every orifice that fragmentation is bad, it’s bad for developers, it’s bad for users, it’s bad for business and so on.

Despite this being not only wrong, but also counterintuitive, as we should all be familiar with how things work in nature, about evolution and competition and diversity.

over_clox ,

Assuming all ads are legit and don’t contain some sketchy script to activate your webcam or scan your cookies (hint: haha, living in lala land if you trust all ads!), have you ever checked what percentage of your bandwidth gets wasted on advertising?

dartos ,

I’m not saying ads are perfect, but they’re not the thing that’s strangling and ruining the internet. They’ve always been a part of it.

But also like any website can run arbitrary code like that. Most ad platforms don’t allow their customers to just have arbitrary js.

over_clox ,

They have not always been a part of the net, I can guarantee you that. Used to have my own totally free site back around 1999/2000 or so. No ads whatsoever, written entirely from Notepad.

Please don’t try telling me the history of the net before you were born.

dartos ,

So first, you don’t know my age. Don’t be weird.

Second, just because you ran a personal site without ads doesn’t mean ads weren’t part of the internet…

over_clox ,

And no, arbitrary internet code didn’t exist before Java came out in 1996.

When that came out, I already sensed it was the beginning of the end…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(software_platform)

dartos ,

Okay, buddy

ThirdNerd ,
@ThirdNerd@lemmy.world avatar

Sites that won’t load unless I them ad-berserker over my web browser I just don’t visit anymore. Seriously. There are a million bazillion web pages out there. The internet managed just fine with people posting pages of relevant links to other similar or recommended other websites back in the Day when Google didn’t even exist yet (I had one myself) and other curated web search sites like https://curlie.org/en (and I contributed link suggestions to the ones like this back then). The only thing we can’t do today that we could back then is run BBS sites for each other off our home land lines. I’m not so worried.

Edit: typo

vacuumflower ,

Hotline and KDX, please

j12345 ,

Google engineers want me to stop using anything from google

yoz ,

Already switched to proton mail, MEGA, startpage search , firefox. Hoping more people to donate to pine64 Linux phones so that they become mainstream.

Kidplayer_666 ,

And when it comes to phones, there are now quite a few alternatives to Stock Android. /eOS uses MicroG instead of google services to allow for almost all apps to run fine while being more private and open source. You can also just use LineageOS and use MicroG as an alternative!

yoz ,

MicroG depends on Google. Yea…fuck that

Kidplayer_666 ,

Better for most people who still need to use most apps

over_clox ,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    LurkNoMore ,

    It isn’t Google Engineers wanting to do it. It’s Google engineers being told to do it.

    LordShrek ,

    this is what i’m frustrated with. why do all these engineers let themselves be told what to do even if it makes a worse-functioning tool? that’s not real engineering.

    “because they’ll get fired”

    not if enough of them do the thing that should’ve been what got them interested in engineering in the first place.

    maybe we shouldn’t call them engineers, but something else relating to being the one who does the dirty work for institutions that aim to steal people’s attention and decrease their quality of life.

    and if they do get fired, then they should join together and make the reasonable company that makes good tools for human use.

    boonhet ,

    That’s called doing your job though. Do you just regularly… tell your boss to fuck off with their requirements?

    In an environment where software engineers are being laid off by the thousands, I don’t think anyone’s going to hand in a resignation letter just because the prestigious ad company they’re working for is… making them force ads on people.

    Many of them will also have to go back to India if they quit their jobs. What’s that, a 10x difference in income?

    cloudy1999 ,

    Also, it’s probably only a handful of people who are implementing this ‘enhancement.’ It’s not like a small team has any real bargaining power.

    Maddox , (edited )

    A point made by Morten Rand-Hendriksen: We software engineers are not real engineers. Unlike other kind of engineers, we do not have to follow industry code of conudct like meachincal engineers or civil engineers. We are just a bunch dudes that learned to use tensorflow on stackoverflow. That is why our work is dangerous and we can always just “be told” what to do for money.

    Airplanes could not be built like that. Calling ourselfs “engineers” is misleading as it suggest we follow some ethics or code of conduct. It will hurt us on the long run.

    LordShrek ,

    very interesting point

    Resol ,
    @Resol@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    leftbones ,

    What’s stopping Google from making this affect all Chromium-based browsers?

    underisk ,
    @underisk@lemmy.ml avatar

    Nothing. They’ve already made commits to the Chromium repository adding in experimental support. It’ll be up to vendors to patch it out or disable it if they want to. I sincerely doubt Microsoft will bother if they aren’t already fully on-board with the proposal and just itching for the feature to finalize and release upstream.

    leftbones ,

    Good thing I jumped ship to FireFox a year ago.

    thorbot ,

    This is the way.

    seasonone OP ,

    BTW it also uses chromium under the hood, which is basically chrome - google

    MonsiuerPatEBrown ,

    “Curse googles sudden but constant betrayal!”

    Alfaspyke ,

    Ah how I miss firefly and Wash 😭 Time for a re-watch!

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