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No, electric vehicle sales aren’t dropping. Here’s what’s really going on

No, electric vehicle sales aren’t dropping. Here’s what’s really going on::Tesla has been slashing prices. Ford just cut the price of its Mustang Mach-E, too, plus it cut back production of its electric pickup. And General Motors is thinking about bringing back plug-in hybrids, arguably a step back from EVs.

Anise ,

The current car market is due for a shakeup. I think new cars are WAY too big, have lots of spyware, and are too expensive. If I go EV, I’ll probably do a conversion for my old compact car, there are starting to be a few crate motors out there.

FrankTheHealer ,

I see people on TikTok a lot saying that ‘the EV bubble is gonna pop and all these suckers are gonna come crawling back to traditional combustion cars’

Like no. Batteries right now are the worse they will ever be again. This is the worst battery tech is gonna be for the rest of our lives. Theres already EVs with batteries that last a week, of just day to day commuter type travel. And have warranties up to 1,000,000 miles.

What’s happening right now is a big shakeup because lots of people can only afford to buy these cars second hand, but people have anxiety about trusting a second hand car with this new tech. So used car sales people are bitching that it’s hard to sell them. That doesn’t mean they aren’t selling though. On top of that, the transition of combustion engines to batteries is causing an industry shakeup. Like there was when we went from horses to cars. When cars first became a thing, people complained about where they will get fuel for it and how long the engine lasts.

Now 100 years on, we are complaining about where we will charge these things, and how long the batteries last.

The transition to EVs is inevitable. You can say it’s not happening but you are wrong.

PlaidBaron ,
@PlaidBaron@lemmy.world avatar

I own an EV. Whats to ‘crawl back to’? The constant maintenance costs? The expensive fuel? The shittier driving experience? The worse noise and vibration?

Nah, bruh. Im good. I will never go back to ICE.

chatokun ,

I have a terrible EV. Claims it has 80 miles of range but is really around 50 miles. A drive to work brings it down to 20%. The fast charge port is CHAdeMO, which at least around here is barely used, and even the electrify America places usually only have 1.

I still don’t want to switch back, I just want a better one with a more common port. I work from home except for the occasional mandatory in office stuff (one coming this Thurs and probably another next month). Most of the stuff I want to drive to is within a battery’s distance to go to and from. About the only thing that really sucks is vacations to visit family.

QuandaleDingle ,

Here’s to hoping you’ll be able to get a car with a NACS charger next year. NACS is supposed to be the standard by then.

AA5B ,

I was able to get a charger installed …… it was so easy to get used to treating it like phone charging: plugin at night and it is always ready to go. I am done with gas stations, and hope I never need to go “crawling back” to them

trk ,
@trk@aussie.zone avatar

I just bought my first EV. I’m never going back to ICE. Effortless acceleration, a super quiet drive, being able to plug in at home and always leave the house with 100% capacity… People try to argue that they’re bad because of something they remember seeing once a couple of decades ago or whatever. It’s nice correcting them based on personal experience. Also if they go for a test drive they change their minds REALLY quickly. That EV power off the line is a pretty compelling argument all on its own.

Reminds me a lot of the battery versus petrol RC car debate back in the day. Anyone who remembered NiCad batteries and brush motors had a justifiable hate for electric RC cars and opted for the petrol option… But if they refused to try LiPo and brushless they ended up stuck with noisy, finicky, and ultimately slower cars.

You gotta be willing to accept that as technology improves the balance can (and rapidly does) swing in favour of something that you remember sucking.

1Transient ,

😱NO! Its all just a lie…keep buying EVs.

dirthawker0 ,

Hertz is also selling a lot of its rental Teslas, which is probably cutting into the new car sales.

tracer_ca ,

I’m in the market for a BEV. Have been for 3 years. The reason I don’t have one is:

A. The cars that are large enough for my use case (weekend getaways with kids and or friends) are all super expensive luxury vehicles with poor ratings.

B. Availability. Other than the Mustang Mach-E, nothing is available here (Canada) without a minimum 6 month wait list. (Ioniq 5 is 1 year).

C. Poor reliability and/or features. (See the disaster that is the Chevy Blazer EV).

At this point I’m waiting for the Ioniq 7. Hopefully it will be as well reviewed as it’s sister the EV9.

The reason GM and Ford are not selling well is because nobody wants what they’re selling. But they’re framing it as an general EV issue and not a crap product issue.

The media and those apposed to EVs are buying it of course.

Vakbrain ,

I’m considering to get a Polestar 2 for many reasons but also because… No waiting time 😉

tracer_ca ,

Oh yeah, forgot that one. Way too small for me, but a really nice car. If the Polestar 3 wasn’t so stupid expensive, I’d love to get that.

RagingRobot ,

I got a lyric and I love ot

Celestus ,

Picked up a used 2022 Polestar 2 about 6 months ago for nearly half off. No regrets, because it’s an awesome car, and I strongly recommend it

Fisch ,
@Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

What did it cost you?

Celestus ,

US$36k before taxes and doc fees

Fisch ,
@Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

Not gonna be able to afford that as a first car but I think that’s a reasonable price. Hopefully I’ll be able to buy an EV like that after a few years of working. Would be cool if there was an EV I could afford as a first car tho but the used market is probably just not there yet.

Celestus ,

Mine is fully equipped, but the base model is approaching the $25k limit for the used EV tax credit, which gets you $4000 off. Depending on your tax situation, that ends up being a ~$20k car. Not quite as cheap as an older Model 3, but give it a few months, and it might be a viable option

Dark_Arc ,
@Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg avatar

Yeah, I want a Mach-E (at least in theory) … but I want it to have a good 500-600 mile range (or for the charging network to be much bigger than it is)… It’s unfortunate really

Fisch ,
@Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

Is the charging network that bad in the US that you need to get that far without charging?

acchariya ,

I’m in the market, and the answer is kinda, for non Teslas. I do a road trip up the east coast a few times a year and the Tesla will reliably add about 4 30 minute stops on each half of the trip. A non Tesla also requires four stops, but they could be anywhere from 20 minutes best case to 1 hr plus, depending on the availability and status of the unreliable chargers.

A lucid with 400 miles of true range would probably cut it down to two stops, but I don’t have $140k

Dark_Arc , (edited )
@Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg avatar

So for me I make a trek to my parents house ~150 miles away a few times a year.

In good weather (and good battery condition), I could maybe skip hitting the chargers all together, or get a little bit of charging at my parents house from a wall outlet.

Unless my parents (or my grandfather that I also visit fairly regularly who lives the same distance in a different direction) installed a better charger at their place… In colder weather (e.g. Christmas), I’d almost definitely need to use a charger while going at least one direction.

The problem is, in both cases, there are like 5-10 charges total (not charging stations, chargers) where as there are like 5-10 gas stations all right next to the interstate each with at least 4 pumps, many with 8+ pumps.

I’m concerned that during peak travel in cold weather (e.g. Christmas time travel), I could easily find myself in a bad situation where I can’t get a charger because they’re all too far away, broken, or in use. There’s just not enough redundancy.

AA5B ,

No, there are very few places like that, and most of the populated places are not at all like that.

I took that to mean “I want to complete my common road trip without charging”

A few weeks ago I did my first road trip requiring charging away from home and it really was painless

tracer_ca ,

I test drove the mach-e and really liked it. And it has a surprisingly large amount of storage due to the well designed frunk. The California edition has more than enough range for me. However, the abysmal charging speed has me worried about battery condition. If it’s that slow to charge it means the battery isn’t good under load.

The_Quaz ,

The charging network actually is about to get much bigger, as Ford will be able to use tesla superchargers starting sometime within next few months. (and is providing a free adapter to owners). I’ve had my Mach e for 6 months and couldn’t be happier with it.

Dark_Arc ,
@Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg avatar

The charging network expansion is something I’ll be watching. I decided the very soonest I’ll buy is after they’ve switched things to the Tesla connector (which seems to be the one that’s going to win).

The adapter is definitely nice but I’d rather not have yet another unnecessary connection adapter in my life lol.

AA5B ,

I always wondered why people didn’t talk about this more. Ami the only one that thinks announcing a new charging connector in two years is announcing your current cars are obsolete? It would be annoying to pay so much for a car that will need to use an adapter in two years. I wouldnt do it. That’s got to hit their sales

bisby ,

I still find it super weird. A (remote) coworker bought an ioniq 5 after 9 months on a wait list… 3 months later, I went to a dealership. they had one on the lot (3 actually). Was able to get one with 0 wait.

Looking at their website, they have 4 2024 ioniq 5s available right now, an SEL, SE, and 2x Limited.

So apparently my local dealership is the sweet spot. Or is this purely a Canada vs US thing?

tracer_ca ,

Yes, availability in the US is much better. You can find a base ioniq 5 here easily now, but nobody wants those. Everyone wants the long range AWD.

ShepherdPie ,

I want a long range RWD Limited but apparently those are unicorn cars. The AWD only gets like 240 miles of range while the RWD is over 300.

dragontamer ,

The reason GM and Ford are not selling well is because nobody wants what they’re selling. But they’re framing it as an general EV issue and not a crap product issue.

Its GM, Ford, Rivian, Lucid.

Tesla only managed to get close to their targets by dropping prices dramatically.

tracer_ca , (edited )

Rivian and Lucid are exclusively luxury brands. Not shocked that they’re having a hard time pushing cars over 100k CAD. I don’t think they’re atracting the same media attention either.

dragontamer ,

Audi and Subaru are also doing poorly with their EVs.

And even Tesla had to drop prices dramatically to move inventory, the sales continue even today.

Its honestly looking like an EV-industry wide problem. The car companies doing the best right now are like, Toyota and Honda, because of their ICE lineup.

ShepherdPie ,

It’s because interest rates are 5x higher than they were a couple of years ago. Nobody wants to finance a $70k car at 8%.

dragontamer ,

Except all the Range Rover buyers. That $90k car is selling like hotcakes right now.

tracer_ca ,

Audi: too expensive, poor reliability Subaru/Toyota: released a shit compliance car.

Again, overpriced junk. My point is that it’s not that nobody wants EVs. It’s that nobody wants the crap these makers are selling.

dragontamer ,

Okay, so…

People want EVs, just not the ones Ford, GM, Toyota, Subaru, Audi, Tesla, Rivian or Lucid are making.

Do you realize how insane that sounds? At some point, it’s clearly the EV part and not the brand.

Meanwhile, the ICE side of these companies are doing excellently. Tons of F150, Toyota Corolla, Honda Accords, Rav4s, and Jeeps getting sold.

max ,

Is it the EV part, or is it the upper-middle to upper market segment part? The Dacia spring is pretty popular in Western Europe and actually affordable.

dragontamer ,

Some of the top selling cars of Feb 2024 (lowest days of inventory metric) of USA is like Range Rover Sport ($90k), Lexus GX ($64k), and BMW X4($65k).

lagomorphlecture ,

Is it so much to ask that I be able to get a vehicle that’s just…normal but also an EV? Not a monster truck, not some space ship looking thing, just like a Honda Accord but an EV…I don’t think that’s asking so much but apparently automakers disagree.

Abnorc ,

There are a few companies that do this. Tesla, Kia, and Nissan come to mind. I’m not sure what’s available in your location though.

tracer_ca ,

I disagree on Tesla. Their minimalist interface is a huge turnoff.

SineSwiper ,
@SineSwiper@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Their policies on automated updates, garbage QA, and recall history are huge turnoffs. Oh, and attachments to Elon Musk.

tracer_ca ,

Agreed.

tracer_ca ,

It goes hand in hand with the prices. If you’re going to spend that much more on a BEV, you want it to be different. And making it look different doesn’t cost significantly more.

Also, car shape and style has so much to do with ICE vehicle design necessity.

lagomorphlecture ,

I mean, I don’t want it to look different. I want a regular sedan or small vehicle like a Honda Fit (which is what I have now and it’s a good size). I just want it to be an EV. So maybe there’s a market for the weird looking cars and have massive SUVs but that’s not what I want. I wouldn’t be caught dead in a cyber truck or this 80s TV show sentient vehicle looking thing.

That’s my 2 cents but I don’t think I’m the only one.

weew ,

Small vehicles are no longer “normal,” EV or not.

Honda discontinued the Fit for a reason. Same with Toyota and the Yaris. Ford has basically pulled out of the entire non -truck/SUV market.

There are plenty of “normal” EVs because “normal” these days is a midsize crossover SUV. The Chevy Bolt is the closest thing you’re looking for.

AA5B ,

That’s a concept car. It’s not real

anivia ,

The Hyundai Ioniq was like that, sadly they discontinued it

BehindTheBarrier ,

I got a Peugeot 208. It’s small, and ok in all aspects except the software. Typical bad car UI. It works with cabled Android Auto, so for long drives that’s more than fine. But touch screen is still old, and the app/site hasn’t let me log in for a few weeks now… So I can’t remote start heating.

But it’s a great car that I bought used, for driving to and from work. Looks good, yellow color, parking sensors and rear camera for my blind ass. But is also probably not available in America for all I know, I live in Europe.

GiveMemes ,

No Peugeot in the states sadly :((. Once in a great while you’ll see an import, but it’s about as common as seeing a LHD classic JDM car.

PeachMan ,
@PeachMan@lemmy.world avatar

General Motors is thinking about bringing back plug-in hybrids

GREAT! Ditching PHEV’s was a stupid idea, we don’t have the charging infrastructure for most people to buy EV’s moving forward. We need an interim solution, and PHEV’s work great. They use a LOT less gas for most people (depending on driving habits) but you have the fuel tank in case you’re on a long road trip, or in a charging desert.

Have y’all seen the new Prius Prime? It starts at $33k, it actually looks kinda cool (subjectively), and it’s FAST (objectively). We need more cars like that.

Badeendje ,
@Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

I read some studies that PHEV owners don’t plug in. So there should not be any tax credits for the purchase.

If we want to do anything to stimulate, there should be something based on electric driving.

PeachMan ,
@PeachMan@lemmy.world avatar

PHEV is not the same as a common hybrid. It’s literally in the name.

GreatAlbatross ,
@GreatAlbatross@feddit.uk avatar

That would not surprise me at all.
In the UK, they have a huge tax incentive as company cars. People are definitely getting them for the tax benefig, and not giving a shit about the electrics.

Though honestly, if it means almost all company cars are at least regenerative braking, and the tech is there is someone does want to use it, it’s not the worst thing.
I might end up with a PHEV in a few years, as most of my driving is very short distance, and I can’t justify the cost of a 200mi+ BEV for the 1 trip a month that needs it. And putting second hand PHEVs on the market helps that.

ShepherdPie ,

Why would they pay more for a PHEV if they aren’t going to use it? Even with credits the cost is still higher.

Badeendje ,
@Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

I dunno… company car, bragging rights, it’s the new fad…

wolre ,

Highly depends on where you are in the world. I feel like PHEVs might make some sense in America, in Europe demand is shrinking every year since charging networks have gotten fairly good and BEVs offer more flexibility in terms of charging, especially if you can’t charge at home.

T156 , (edited )

They arguably do in Australia, since the charging infrastructure is poor to non-existent in some places.

Melbourne, one of the major cities, has about seven charging stations for the entire metropolis. Until the charging network is built up more effectively, if you live there, it would make more sense to buy a PHEV to tide you over until it became practical to run electric all the time.

Fisch ,
@Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

I live in a relatively small town in Germany (about 8k residents) and we have mutiple public charging stations here. Insane how bad the infrastructure is over in Australia.

AA5B ,

This is the kind of thing the makes me call BS when someone tries to use this excuse for the US. 7 charging stations for Melbourne? Wow.

I’m sure it depends on where you are, but my one road trip was to a small town in New Hampshire, not near any major city. The Tesla Supercharger station must have had at least a dozen spots and there were two other large charging stations. I’m reasonably sure most of the US population already has more chargers than they believe, and the rural areas that don’t are already a niche

filister ,

PHEV in my opinion is a really dumb idea. It got popular, because it was an easy way for car manufacturers to continue making large SUVs and adhere to even stricter fuel efficiency restrictions, while also benefitting from generous state subsidies. Now that those subsidies are either scaled down or completely removed the PHEV sector is shrinking fast.

The benefit of EV is not only that you can charge at your own garage but that you also have lower maintenance cost and even if the upfront cost is higher, your cost over time lowers the more you drive it and depending on electricity prices, etc. you can break even with ICE.

With PHEV, the maintenance cost is higher than ICE, because at the end you need to service and maintain two engines.

falkerie71 ,
@falkerie71@sh.itjust.works avatar

It’s still more viable in regions where people don’t have personal garages, and their apartment parking lot doesn’t support retrofitting charging stands.

T156 , (edited )

At the same time, a PHEV is a good stopgap if you live in a place with poor charging infrastructure. You might be able to charge enough to drive locally, but not when going some place farther afield. For example, I may be able to charge enough to drive around the neighbourhood from my socket, but literally half the city does not have any kind of EV charging capability, making a BEV unsuitable.

A PHEV would do better there, since I could switch to petrol if needed, and run in EV mode otherwise, and when charging infrastructure becomes good enough that I can live without the petrol part, then it might be worth switching to BEV.

PHEV in my opinion is a really dumb idea. It got popular, because it was an easy way for car manufacturers to continue making large SUVs and adhere to even stricter fuel efficiency restrictions, while also benefitting from generous state subsidies. Now that those subsidies are either scaled down or completely removed the PHEV sector is shrinking fast.

I’d argue that to be less of a issue with PHEV, since they weren’t all that common to start with, and more of an issue with things like Mild Hybrids where the motor is just there to give the ICE a little boost, and precious little else.

With PHEV, the maintenance cost is higher than ICE, because at the end you need to service and maintain two engines.

I would be curious if they are. ECVT systems don’t seem that much more complex than an equivalent automatic transmission, since the motor doubles as the starter and internal brake bands.

Maybe for the diesel-electric locomotive-type drivetrain that Opel’s Ampera-E uses, since it’s basically an EV with an onboard generator, but even then, maintenance costs could easily be offset by the ICE not running as often or as hard.

The catalytic converters of hybrid cars are often sought after because they are cleaner and don’t see as much wear as their ICE counterparts. It would not be much of a stretch for that logic to extend to hybrid engines.

sierraoscar ,

IMO its a great idea right now because IIRC 90% of round trips are 50 miles or less. So if you have a 200 mile battery, 75% of it is dead weight most the time. PHEVs remove the range anxiety present in most parts of the US with poor charger networks. Plus if battery manufacturing becomes a bottleneck in the near future it will be good to reduce the amount needed per car.

Maybe in the future good charger networks and much cheaper batteries will solve the problem but for the next 20 years I think PHEVs will fill an important role.

PeachMan ,
@PeachMan@lemmy.world avatar

No. It all depends on how you drive it. If you just drive a PHEV around town and do the occasional road trip (which is how most people drive) then the ICE engine sees very little wear and requires very little service.

If you’re doing constant road trips and burning up the road, a PHEV is not for you. And neither is an EV, honestly.

Fisch ,
@Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

An EV would work if the infrastructure was there. Modern EV batteries can charge full in like 15 minutes but it’s not even gonna take that long cause you’ll obviously not be plugging it in at 0%. The charger needs to support that amount of power throughput tho tbf.

PeachMan ,
@PeachMan@lemmy.world avatar

An EV would work if the infrastructure was there.

Right, but it’s not yet. So a PHEV is a better option for most people (for now).

Fisch ,
@Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

True but the issue is that your government isn’t doing anything about it. They could e.g. require every gas station to have an electric charger (Will be the case soon in Germany)

PeachMan ,
@PeachMan@lemmy.world avatar

Okay. And until the government does something about it, a PHEV is an excellent choice.

flames5123 ,

I have over 110k miles on my EV in 5 years, and that’s including COVID lockdown and then moving to the city where I drive even less. The charging infrastructure is there for Tesla. I was able to drive across the country (Washington to Mississippi/Alabama) three times so far, down in rural Texas, Oklahoma, Mississippi, in the snow, through the Rocky mountains, through the cascades for hikes, etc.

It’s a no brainer. I’m never going back to anything with a combustion engine. If Tesla can do charging infrastructure that makes 99.9% of the US easily accessible, so can Ford or any other big EV manufacturer.

PeachMan ,
@PeachMan@lemmy.world avatar

Bullshit. Being able to eventually get somewhere doesn’t mean the infrastructure is “there” unless your standard for “there” is low. Charging every 100-150 miles means a long trip will take literally hours longer. That is just unacceptable for most people. I’ve done the trip across Pennsylvania several times in a Tesla, and Pennsylvania actually has decent charger coverage. But my trip still took a solid HOUR longer than usual. And if I have to wait in line at a full Tesla charger, it’ll add even more than an hour.

The fact that you, personally, are okay with driving slower doesn’t mean everyone else is. And that argument doesn’t even touch the fact that you’re only saying the infrastructure is there for Teslas. What about all the other brands? Everyone in America has to buy a Tesla?

flames5123 ,

Woah. Why all the aggression?

I charge every 2-3 hours for 15-25 mins. So a 6.5 hour trip will take about 7.5-8 hours. For my latest cross country trip, it took 48 hours with charging from Seattle to Jackson Mississippi. Google says it’s a 38 hour drive. So it added about 25% but he drive was so much more enjoyable. We got food at all of our stops so it didn’t add that much time when you factor in stopping for food, gas, water, dog, etc. Sure it adds a little time, but it helps me stay awake.

Charging infrastructure is only going to get better and faster. Imagine a 500mile battery that charges to 80 in 15 mins. You’ll only stop every 4-5 hours for 15 mins. About the same as a gas car now.

Also, that’s why I said I can’t wait to have charging infrastructure with other automakers.

I didn’t say everyone should get an EV either. I’d much rather have better mass public transit. I’m just saying the infrastructure is there for EV charging.

podperson ,

Auto makers “slashing prices.” With perhaps one or 2 small exceptions, can you actually go out and buy an EV for under 40K in the US? Didn’t think so. Seems to be a whole lotta confusion about “demand” and the manufacturers actually making an electric car that normal people can afford.

SkyNTP ,

My next car purchase if at all, will be some plugin electric (full or hybrid). The only reason I haven’t purchased it yet is because the form factor I am looking for in a car hasn’t been made in a plug in variety yet.

Also the stories about constant surveillance and tracking, and the push for shit-tier infotainment when I already have one in my pocket (phone) are not helping either.

Just make a dumb battery on wheels, already.

vladmech ,

Super just curious, what kind of form factor are you looking for? Any upcoming releases that match it?

mctoasterson ,

This is a concern for me also. Tesla is the Apple of car companies: hipster-centric, proprietary everything, overpriced, and really bad from a privacy perspective.

I was looking at Toyotas as I hear they are reliable and have PHEV and other options, but supposedly their data privacy is also extremely poor.

I don’t need a lot of the “smart” features of modern cars. I don’t need my car phoning the mother ship with it’s precise location and other metadata every 3/5 of a second.

I only want a rock solid drive train, basic usable control interface, a radio and maybe a USB port to play my own MP3s. Don’t need apps or even navigation. I feel like most EVs are very centered on bell and whistle features and their cost is greatly inflated because of it.

GreatAlbatross ,
@GreatAlbatross@feddit.uk avatar

Personally, I’m keen to see if the proverbial doors get blown off the first few gens of electric cars, and the FOSS community makes headway.
I would happily buy an old Leaf if I knew we could handle all the software ourselves, and just do battery swaps when the range wasn’t enough any more.

anivia ,

3rd party leaf batteries already exist

bitwyze ,

Automotive software is a regulated industry. No government is going to let John Doe off the street flash custom firmware onto a car and allow it on the road.

vvv ,

Gen 2 chevy volt owner here, PHEVs are absolutely not a step back. If I didn’t buy the volt, the one car our family could afford would have been an ICE car. IMO, these things help bridge idealism with current reality - for most of my day-to-day, I drive a fully electric car. I just also get the option to toss some gas into it when on a long road trip.

Pxtl ,
@Pxtl@lemmy.ca avatar

Yeah, this. For people with short commutes and in the market for a compact I strongly recommend the Prius Prime. Having a vehicle that can get to work and back without using gas at all, but also can go on long road trips without range anxiety? Perfect. And as an entry-level into the plug-in world, it’s nice that I can charge it on regular 110 instead of having to think about an upgrade to an oven-port.

chakan2 ,
@chakan2@lemmy.world avatar

There is no way in hell I’m paying 30k for a Prius.

clgoh ,

It’s well worth it.

polygon6121 ,

Probably the best bet right now. Both from a cost perspective and using resources better. One big battery in a single car vs 10 batteries in 10 PHEV. If we want to make a real impact right now the PHEV are a great choice and can reach more people. Then of course, the best is not drive any car at all, asvoften as possible. Taking public transport or walking/cycling is much better than than any BEV, imagine if every car owner would drive 10% less, that would make a huge impact. Much larger than building a fuck ton of BEVs from a sustainability standpoint.

espentan ,

Btw, in Norway 92% of new car sales in January were electric cars, and apparently predictions for February are even higher.

When the infrastructure is there, people appear to have little to no qualms buying electric cars.

polygon6121 ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    Lmaydev ,

    How they got rich doesn’t change their sales figures. Other countries that got rich in different ways could apply the same techniques.

    polygon6121 ,

    No, you are right. But I do think most countries do use the same techniques, the problem is they can’t give subsidies for up to 50% of the new car price. It is simply not sustainable. There are also not enough cars to go around even if they did and even if most people had enough money burning in their pocket for a new car, which they don’t.

    I just find the how they got rich ironic…

    abhibeckert , (edited )

    Norway has a range of subsidies worth up to half the price of the vehicle and home upgrades plus tax exemptions worth another 25% on top of that.

    Which can mean a brand new EV is the same price as an old secondhand ICE.

    Incentives like that are a lot easier your entire national population is smaller than some cities.

    espentan ,

    I only meant to say that many of the things that might put people off buying electric cars, like range concerns etc. can be alleviated.

    Even with subsidies and incentives it was slow going in the beginning, before people gained trust in the infrastructure and realized electric could be a real and practical alternative.

    I didn’t mean to be an asshole, sorry.

    Slowy ,
    @Slowy@lemmy.world avatar

    You weren’t an asshole

    Fisch ,
    @Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

    How does a smaller population make it easier to pay those incentives? Less people also means less tax income and vice versa

    nyan ,

    Tax rates in general are higher there, and not all taxation scales with population (corporate tax, for instance). It also depends on how the government allocates the money it spends—Norway doesn’t have the US’s ridiculously inflated military budget.

    Fisch ,
    @Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

    The issue is how the US is spending tax money then and not the population

    SineSwiper ,
    @SineSwiper@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    Country size has a huge impact on the ability to make sweeping changes to infrastructure and public opinion. A country the size of one US state can do whatever they want and it’s not going to take 50 years to implement.

    South Korea has broadband everywhere? Sure, they are a rich country the size of Indiana and lacing all of that fiber is trivial compared to the entire land mass of the US, or worse, Russia or China. Governmental demands scale much differently the larger the country, and tax doesn’t scale in a 1:1 manner to its land mass.

    Fisch ,
    @Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

    If you want to make changes like that, you tell each state they’re supposed to e.g. upgrade everyone to fiber and then the local government of each state handles it. I thought that was the whole point of having those states.

    kalleboo ,

    Incentives like that are a lot easier your entire national population is smaller than some cities.

    Maybe you should split your country up into smaller, independent regions that can govern more effectively.

    You could call them “States”

    AA5B ,

    Incentives like that are a lot easier …

    I don’t buy this logic at all. A larger population also means a much larger taxpayer base, so it evens out. US can offer incentives like this but chooses not to. Half the population seems to feel threatened by any incentives. Then going down to state levels: some states do offer additional incentives and some don’t. The population size isn’t an economical difference, it’s a political difference

    ColeSloth ,

    Norway is 1/30th the size of the US and everyone lives in the bottom half, so traveling your country is like traveling a state in the US, and not one of the big states. That makes it really easy to have smaller range EV’S a viable option and requires orders of magnitudes less public charging stations. Everything is easy when your entire country only consists of a bit over five million people.

    Fisch ,
    @Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

    Just because the borders are drawn around a bigger or smaller area, doesn’t change how long people need to drive when they wanna get somewhere

    autotldr Bot ,

    This is the best summary I could come up with:

    And now the EPA is considering slowing down requirements for automakers to sell more electric vehicles, dialing back what had been aggressive plans to move away from gas powered cars and SUVs.

    Industry experts cite a number of reasons for this, including vehicle price, lack of charging capacity and confusing tax credit rules.

    Besides being too expensive for the average buyer, selection is limited in terms of body style, said Corey Cantor, an industry analyst with Bloomberg New Energy Finance.

    This is why Ford recently cut prices for the Mach-E SUV and why Farley created a team to work on a less expensive EV engineering platform that will be the basis for future models.

    BMW, GM, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes-Benz, and Stellantis have come together to create a joint venture that plans to install about 30,000 chargers across the United States and Canada.

    In the words of the Portuguese auto executive, who spoke to journalists in New York recently, public EV charging needs to “jump on your face” before most customers will consider an electric vehicle.

    The original article contains 1,022 words, the summary contains 176 words. Saved 83%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

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