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programmer_humor

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NounsAndWords , in Its not wrong though

It just occurred to me that AI in the nearish future will probably/almost certainly be able to do this.

Psythik ,

I can’t wait for AI to make a PC port of every console game ever so that we can finally stop using emulators.

amki ,
@amki@feddit.de avatar

This won’t happen in our lifetime. Not only because this is more complex than rambling vaguely correlated human speech while hallucinating half the time.

i_am_hiding ,

AI can literally read minds. I don’t think it’s that great of a step to say it should be able to decompile a few games.

amki ,
@amki@feddit.de avatar

About half the time, the text closely – and sometimes precisely – matched the intended meanings of the original words.

Don’t be surprised but about half of the time I can predict the result of a coin flip.

I’m not saying it’s not interesting but needing custom training and an fMRI is not “an AI can read minds”

It can see if patterns it saw previously reappear in a heavily time delayed fMRI. Looking for patterns you already know isn’t such an impressive feat Computers have done this for ages now.

It litterally can’t read minds.

sfgifz ,

Later, the same participants were scanned listening to a new story or imagining telling a story and the decoder was used to generate text from brain activity alone. About half the time, the text closely – and sometimes precisely – matched the intended meanings of the original words.

You left out the most important context about “half of the time”. Guessing what you’re thinking of by just looking at your brain activity with a 50% accuracy is a very very good achievement - it’s not pulling it out of a 1 or 0 outcome like you’re with your coin flip.

You can pretend that the AI is useless and you’re the smartest boy in the class all you want, doesn’t negate the accomplishments.

amki ,
@amki@feddit.de avatar

Being close (and “sometimes” precise) to the intended meaning is an equally useless metric to measure performance.

Depending on what you allow for “well close enough I think” asking ChatGPT to tell a story without any reading of fMRI would get you to these results. Especially if you know beforehand it’s gonna be a story told.

GBU_28 ,

Off the shelf models do this, yes.

Sophisticated local trained models on expensive private hardware are already dunking on publicly available versions. The problem of hallucination is generally resolved in those contexts

amki ,
@amki@feddit.de avatar

Sure but until I see such a thing I chose not to believe in fairy tales.

Decompiling arbitrary architecture machine code is quite a few levels above everything I’ve seen so far which is generally pretty basic pattern recognition paired with statistics and training reinforcement.

I’d argue decompiling arbitrary machine code into either another machine code or legible higher level code is in a whol other league than what AO has proven to be capable of.

Especially because with this being 90% accurate is useless.

GBU_28 ,

Again you aren’t seeing this because these models are being developed for private enterprise purposes.

Regarding deep machine code analysis, sure, that’s gonna take work but the whole hallucination thing is an off the shelf, rookie problem these days

rikudou ,

It’s not, though. Hallucinations are inherent to the technology, it’s not a matter of training. Good training can greatly reduce the likelihood, but cannot solve it.

GBU_28 ,

Training doesn’t solve hallucination. I didn’t say that

sacredfire ,

Why does a pre-trained model need expensive private hardware after it was trained, other than to handle API requests faster? Is Open AI training chat-GPT on inferior hardware compared to these sophisticated private versions you mentioned?

GBU_28 ,

The fine tuning, while much more efficient than starting fresh, can still be a large amount of work.

Then consider that your target corpus of data may also be large.

Then consider to do your reasoning tasks across that corpus also takes strong hardware to get production ready response times.

No, openai isn’t using inferior hardware, but their model goals, token chunking strategies and overall corpus are generalist in nature.

There are then processing strategies teams are using to go beyond the “memory” limitations gpt 4 has, that provide massive benefits to coherency, essentially anti hallucination and better overall reasoning

secret301 ,

I think it’ll be in our lifetime just not anytime soon. I feel like AI is gonna boom like the internet did. Didn’t happen overnight and not even in a year but over 35ish years

WoodlandAlliance ,

deleted_by_author

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  • 257m ,

    That dosen’t really translate to neural nets though. There is nothing inherent about matrix multiplication that would make it good at reading code. And also computers aren’t reading code they are executing it. The hardware just reads instruction by instruction and performs that instruction it has no idea what the high level purpose of what it is doing actually is.

    gens ,

    Half of programming is writing code, the other half is thinking about the problem. As i learn more about programming i feel that it is even more about solving problems.

    amki ,
    @amki@feddit.de avatar

    It’s the other way round. Code is being written to fit how a specific machine works. This is what makes Assembly so hard.

    Also there is by design no understanding required, a machine doesn’t “get” what you are trying to do it just does what is there.

    If you want a machine to understand what specific code does and modify that for another machine that is extremely hard because the machine would need to understand the semantics of the operation. It would need to “get” what you were doing which isn’t happening.

    SnipingNinja ,

    Idk the specifics, but what you say makes it sound like it would be easier to create an AI that recreates a game based on gameplay visuals (and the relevant controls)

    amki ,
    @amki@feddit.de avatar

    That game would still not work because there is a ton of hidden state in all but the simplest computer games that you cannot tell from just playing through the game normally.

    An AI could probably reinvent flappy birds because there is no more depth than what is currently on screen but that’s about it.

    Mockrenocks ,

    Ai prompt: make me a program that will convert PS5 games to PC

    AI: Use Convert-PS5GameToPC

    End of line

    amki ,
    @amki@feddit.de avatar

    Do what?

    perviouslyiner ,

    It was a staple of Asimov’s books that while trying to predict decisions of the robot brain, nobody in that world ever understood how they fundamentally worked.

    He said that while the first few generations were programmed by humans, everything since that was programmed by the previous generation of programs.

    This leads us to Asimov’s world in which nobody is even remotely capable of creating programs that violate the assumptions built into the first iteration of these systems - are we at that point now?

    amki ,
    @amki@feddit.de avatar

    No. Programs cannot reprogram themselves in a useful way and are very very far from it.

    legion02 ,

    Eh, I’d say continuous training models are pretty close to this. Adapting to changing conditions and new input is kinda what they’re for.

    Bjornir ,

    Very far from reprogramming though. The general shape of the NN doesn’t change, you won’t get a NN made to process images to suddenly process code just by training it.

    yum13241 ,

    Then how does polymorphic/self-modifying code work?

    amki ,
    @amki@feddit.de avatar

    It doesn’t or do you have serious applications for self-modifying code?

    yum13241 ,

    Some use it for causing millions of dollars in damage.

    rikudou ,

    are we at that point now?

    Nope, but we’re getting there.

    FQQD , in Who did this one

    It’s great. I definitely recommend watching ${hot_search_word} rn. it’s a masterpiece

    fidodo , in Simple trick

    Are there airports that still do this? Every airport I’ve been to in the last decade has had free Wi-Fi.

    ______ , in Who did this one

    Gotta love no unit tests

    andrew ,
    @andrew@lemmy.stuart.fun avatar
    
    <span style="color:#323232;">if !strings.Contains(notification.Text, "People are") {
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">  t.Fatal("notification text wrong")
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">}
    </span>
    

    Test coverage maintained. 👈😎👈

    Redjard ,
    @Redjard@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar
    
    <span style="color:#323232;">if !strings.Contains(makeNotification($hot_search_word).Text, '${hot_search_word}') {
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">  t.Fatal("notification text wrong")
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">}
    </span>
    

    Wrote the test boss

    ______ ,

    Good work. Now explain to me why this test passed in CI but is clearly broken in production.

    knightry , in Who did this one

    I love interns.

    Nioxic , in Hallelujah

    Dir?

    SturgiesYrFase ,
    @SturgiesYrFase@lemmy.ml avatar

    Well that’s rude…

    Nintendo ,

    what did you say? say that again to my face, I dare you.

    Nioxic ,

    I apologize. I didnt mean to offend anyone!

    lugal ,

    Mir?

    nodiet ,

    Mir nichts, dir nichts

    lugal ,

    Achso, schade, aber kann man nichts machen

    friendlymessage ,

    Tja

    AnUnusualRelic ,
    @AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

    Why are DOS commands always so verbose?

    SubArcticTundra ,
    @SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml avatar

    Wait till I tell you about Pause

    out , (edited )

    deleted_by_author

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  • leviosa ,
    @leviosa@programming.dev avatar

    Old habits die hard, that’s the first alias on my list in .zshrc!

    mexicancartel ,

    ^L

    RaivoKulli ,

    Just makes the command prompt climb into a hole

    thepianistfroggollum ,

    Too many letters

    Omgarm , in Who did this one

    Binged 4 episodes of that just now. I love it.

    ono , in Its not wrong though

    Cute. It would be funnier if it was correct.

    just_ducky_in_NH , in Its not wrong though

    Okay, boomer here, be gentle.

    So back in the ‘70s I dabbled in programming (now called “coding”, I hear). I only did higher-level languages like Fortran, Cobol, IBM Basic, but a friend had a job (at age 13!) programming in assembler. Is assembler now called assembly, or are they different?

    Almamu ,

    Yep, some call it assembly, others call it assembler

    Thwompthwomp ,

    I thought that the assembler is a specific program that translates mnemonics into the corresponding machine code. Perhaps in early computing this was done by hand so a person was the assembler (and worked in assembler), but now that is handled by software (and supports various macros). So programming in assembly would generate a stream of text that must be assembled by an assembler. (Although I have heard people refer to programming in assembler as well, just not often.)

    lhamil64 ,

    I hear people say “program in assembler” but IMO that’s wrong. I’d say you write the code in “assembly language” (or better yet, the actual architecture you’re using like “x86 assembly”) but you “assemble” it with an “assembler”. Kind of like how you could write a program in the “C language” and “compile” it with a “compiler”

    amki , (edited )
    @amki@feddit.de avatar

    A compiler and an assembler do wildly different things though. An assembler simply replaces mnemonics while a compiler transfers instructions to a whole other language.

    Malfeasant ,

    Depends on the language, really… C maps pretty closely to assembly language, it’s not as simple as one mnemonic to one machine code byte, more like tokens get mapped to sequences of machine code, a function call translates to some code that sets up a stack frame, a return tears it down…

    fidodo ,

    It’s still called programming, coding is the same thing. Assembler more commonly refers to the utility program that converts the assembly code to machine code while assembly refers to the code itself, but the term assembler code is also valid. It’s uncommon to simply call the code assembler because it would be easily confused with the utility program.

    lugal ,

    (at age 13!)

    c/suddenlyfactorial

    bamboo ,

    Easier to say than “at age 6227020800”

    Overzeetop ,

    I was too young/poor to afford an assembler for my 6502 so I wore out the assembly long hand on a legal pad and then manually converted each operation to machine code.

    Needless to say my programs done this way were exceptionally simple, but it’s interesting to understand the underlying code.

    httpjames , in Who did this one
    @httpjames@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Someone forgot the back ticks 💀

    ShroOmeric ,

    debuggin already, aren’t we?

    andrew ,
    @andrew@lemmy.stuart.fun avatar

    No back ticks helps prevent Lyme disease.

    squaresinger ,

    And Alpha-Gal (->red meat) allergy

    threelonmusketeers ,
    PipedLinkBot ,

    Here is an alternative Piped link(s): piped.video/X6NJkWbM1xk

    Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

    I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.

    cacheson , in Its not wrong though
    @cacheson@kbin.social avatar

    In this thread: Programmers disassembling the joke to try and figure out why it's funny.

    dylanTheDeveloper , in Its not wrong though
    @dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah but which version of assembly

    over_clox ,

    Depends on the CPU. Either way there are cross-compilers and cross-disassmblers.

    And even failing those options, there’s always hex editors for those really in the know.

    makingStuffForFun ,
    @makingStuffForFun@lemmy.ml avatar

    Microsoft’s Assembly# of course. It’s new. It’s just different enough to extinguish assembly

    yum13241 ,

    6502 assembly.

    jadero ,

    The last assembly I could understand. Well, pretend to understand.

    cyborganism , in Its not wrong though

    You can have the code of any software with a decompiler. Especially with Java and C# for example.

    SpaceNoodle , in Its not wrong though

    No, it is wrong. Machine code is not source code.

    over_clox ,

    Never heard of a decompiler I see.

    seliaste ,
    @seliaste@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    A decompiler doesnt give you access to the comments, variable names, which is an important part of every source code

    over_clox ,

    Meanwhile, AI is having a heyday with it…

    arxiv.org/abs/1909.09029

    BaroqueInMind ,
    @BaroqueInMind@kbin.social avatar

    What's cool is that you can interpret the var names yourself and rename them whatever you want.

    seliaste ,
    @seliaste@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    But it is extremely time-consuming. Open source code makes it transparent and easy to read, that’s what it is about: transparency

    newIdentity ,

    A decompiler won’t give you the source code. Just some code that might not even necessarily work when compiled back.

    over_clox ,

    And? Decompilers aren’t for noobs. So what if it gives you variable and function names like A000, A001, etc?

    It can still lead a seasoned programmer where to go in the raw machine code to mod some things.

    over_clox ,

    You’re actually chatting with a hacker that made No-CD hacks.

    amki ,
    @amki@feddit.de avatar

    From the point of view of the decompiler machine code is indeed the source code though

    tastysnacks ,

    Try converting from English to Japanese and back to English.

    over_clox ,

    xor ax, ax

    amki ,
    @amki@feddit.de avatar

    A fancy way to say do nothing is not the same as translating back and forth. Example: Show me the intermediate translation.

    Also we live in a 64bit world now old man

    over_clox ,

    You’re right.

    xor rax, rax

    Karyoplasma ,
    
    <span style="color:#323232;">GF2P8AFFINEINVQB xmm1, xmm2, 10
    </span>
    
    over_clox ,

    Also that instruction does not do nothing, it resets the CPU register to zero without having to access RAM. Far from a NOP instruction.

    SpaceNoodle ,

    Still not the actual source code, bucko.

    over_clox ,

    No, it’s actually better when you can read the machine code.

    Most folks don’t care to recompile the whole thing when all they wanna do is bypass the activation and tracker shit.

    SpaceNoodle ,

    Having access to the source code actually makes reading machine code easier, so you’re also wrong on this entirely different thing you’re going on about.

    over_clox ,

    You’ve clearly never used a disassembler such as HIEW have you? You get the entire breakdown of the assembly code.

    SpaceNoodle ,

    I disassemble binaries daily for work. It’s still not the same as source code.

    over_clox ,

    I didn’t say it was. I just said loosely what the OG meme said, if you know how to read assembly, you know how to read (and write) what some of the code does.

    over_clox ,

    I never said disassembly or decompiling was easier in any way. I’ll agree with you on that, it’s way more difficult.

    Back to the point of the meme though, if you can read assembly, you can read it all.

    SpaceNoodle ,

    You’ve never actually compared source code to its compiled output, have you.

    over_clox ,

    I’ve written drivers in 65 bytes of code. I don’t tend to use high level languages that hide what’s going on behind the scenes.

    olorin99 ,
    @olorin99@artemis.camp avatar

    And even if you had the source code it may not necessarily qualify as open source.

    vox ,
    @vox@sopuli.xyz avatar

    well assembly is technically “source code” and can be 1:1 translated to and from binary, excluding “syntactic sugar” stuff like macros and labels added on top.

    Malfeasant ,

    But those things you’re excluding are the most important parts of the source code…

    257m ,

    By excluded he means macro assemblers which in my mind do qualify as an actual langauge as they have more complicated syntax than instruction arg1, arg2 …

    257m ,

    The code is produced by the compiler but they are not the original source. To qualify as source code it needs to be in the original language it was written in and a one for one copy. Calling compiler produced assembly source code is wrong as it isn’t what the author wrote and their could be many versions of it depending on architecture.

    mateomaui , in Hallelujah

    What year is this from? You absolutely can use ls in a windows command prompt now.

    captsneeze ,

    As of Aug 26, 2023, Windows command prompt absolutely does not recognize “ls” as a command.

    Powershell is a different story.

    Source: I type “ls” 40 times a day into a command prompt on my up-to-date win10 PC at work.

    brb ,

    I can’t remember doing anything and “ls” works for me

    TurnItOff_OnAgain ,

    Probably using Powershell, or you added it. Ls definitely doesn’t work in windows 10 or 11 in cmd.

    mateomaui ,
    TurnItOff_OnAgain ,

    Bone stock windows 11. Like I have everyone else has said, you have done something to add it to cmd. It isn’t, and has never been in cmd.

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/d50ea507-ed19-4421-bfaa-58317d1cf8c9.png

    EDIT:

    Try this. in CMD type in

    where LS

    brb ,
    
    <span style="color:#323232;">E:>where ls
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">f:Gitusrbinls.exe
    </span>
    

    Mystery solved

    mateomaui ,

    Ok, getting past the dickish, completely unhelpful first part of your reply (as you can see in the comments, not EVERYONE was saying that), the second part helped me trace it back to this:

    github.com/devkitPro/installer/releases

    which is a toolset that I never intentionally installed, and was evidently added by an emulator package without me knowing where it was or what it did.

    So thank you for (eventually) helping me find what it was, and now you and others know how to add it to cmd and don’t have to complain about its absence.

    brb ,

    No it works in cmd. I didn’t add it intentionally atleast. Never even tried to use it till now.

    TurnItOff_OnAgain ,

    Bone stock windows 11. It isn’t, and has never been in cmd.

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/d50ea507-ed19-4421-bfaa-58317d1cf8c9.png

    newIdentity ,

    It works on Powershell but not with CMD.

    That’s a problem when using NeoVim on windows

    CaptPretentious ,

    The year is 2023, if you’re still using CMD or batch files still that’s on you. It’s like riding a horse down a freeway and yelling at cars.

    TurnItOff_OnAgain ,

    Sometimes you just need a quick ipconfig or nslookup, or a simple scheduled shutdown /s /f /t 00

    Thade780 ,

    You can still do those in PowerShell. Just saying.

    TurnItOff_OnAgain ,

    Yeah, but it’s muscle memory at this point

    Win+r

    Cmd

    Ipconfig

    Gonna take some time to get my hands to type wt instead of cmd

    SatyrSack ,
    
    <span style="color:#323232;">Win+X
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">i
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">ipconfig
    </span>
    
    captsneeze ,

    That is a fair statement, but also a different topic.

    I am thankful to live in an age with WSL.

    oldGregg ,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • CaptPretentious ,

    That wasn’t the conversation.

    ‘Cmd’ is to ‘horse and buggy’ as ‘powershell’ is to ‘automotive vehicle’

    Have no idea where you decided to pull this 100mph idea from. It wasn’t a comment about speed, it was a comment about utilizing modern practices and tools. And that the joke falls apart because it’s forcing the narrative all windows has is cmd and blatantly ignoring pwsh. It be me like making a joke how linux can’t do wifi… because there was a time Windows did wifi just fine but linux required using a special process using an ndiswrapper with windows drivers to get linux on wifi… so like 16-17 years ago. See, hilarious.

    mateomaui ,

    ok boomer?

    CaptPretentious ,

    What? Ignoring the out of date, over used, ‘gottem’, phrase… it literally doesn’t make sense given the context. I’m advocating for modern tools… how is that a ‘boomer’ move?

    mateomaui ,

    I ended it with a question mark because I was uncertain but otherwise your asinine, dismissive statement sounds like something a jackass who’s been around too long would say because he’s entirely too full of himself. I’m willing to recognize that it’s actually ignorance formed out of youth. Don’t think about it too hard.

    mateomaui , (edited )

    I literally just typed it into cmd.exe on Windows 10, fully updated, and it absolutely did work. No idea why it doesn’t work for you.

    edit: ???

    https://reddthat.com/pictrs/image/fbff7af6-2d11-419d-9975-cf3c9663cd4f.png

    edit: it’s been traced back to this:

    github.com/devkitPro/installer/releases

    which is an emulator toolset that I didn’t know existed on my system until today.

    captsneeze , (edited )

    That is interesting. I just remoted into 5 different machines at the office and none of them worked with ‘ls’. If you enter ‘ls /?’, does it give you a synopsis and argument list?

    mateomaui ,

    If I do “ls /?” it returns no such file or directory, but just “ls” performs exactly as you’d expect. I haven’t installed anything to provide that function that I know of. It never occurred to me that I would have to because as far as I know it’s always worked. Until today I just assumed it had become a standard command and never investigated. Was just happy I could use the same command in cmd and on my Pi box.

    mateomaui ,

    Mystery solved, ls works for me due to this:

    github.com/devkitPro/installer/releases

    which is a toolset that was installed by an emulator package somewhere along the line, I just didn’t know it was there.

    captsneeze ,

    Thanks for letting us know!

    mexicancartel ,

    Lmao

    icesentry ,

    Out of curiosity what do you do to frequently end up with cmd? I don’t think I’ve touched it in many years at this point.

    captsneeze ,

    It’s my own fault, and the result of 30+ years of muscle memory building up. Plus, while I agree cmd isn’t nearly as powerful as powershell or wsl can be, when I’m in Windows it’s still the fastest way for me to do 90% of the simple things I need to do. I have a long history with it, and a thorough understanding of it, so I don’t really need to think for most of the things I’m doing there.

    If I need to script something, or do anything that seems like it would be annoying to do in CMD, I hop into WSL pretty quickly and get to work with bash or python. The problem I have now is that I’ve developed a little muscle memory there as well… hence my issue with entering ‘ls’ everywhere.

    mateomaui ,

    Lately I’ve been using it as a simple way to drag and drop a source .tar.xz archive on a .bat file so it can be twice extracted, moved, renamed, have dependencies downloaded by git, run a cmake process, do a visual studio compile, then move the result release directory back to where the .bat file is while removing unneeded files and adding new ones.

    cmd and batch still has its uses.

    ShortFuse , (edited )

    Yes in Windows Server since, IIRC, 2012". No in Windows client versions.

    I’m so used to Server commands I sometimes am surprised when commands like logoff don’t work.

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