People seems to be riled up by this, but turbo is mostly used with ruby on rails, right? I’m not familiar with ruby on rails, does it actually support some form of static typing it type hints? From the blog post, the dev (which is also the ruby on rails creator) doesn’t seem to be a fan of bolting static typing into dynamic typing language.
In Ruby, the convention is usually that things are duck-typed (the actual types of your inputs don't matter as long as they implement whatever you're expecting of them, if not, we throw an exception). Type hinting could be possible, but it basically runs contrary to the idea.
Now, Ruby on Rails developers are expecting some kind of magic conversion happening at the interfaces. For example, ActiveRecord maps the database datatypes to Ruby classes and will perform automated conversions on, say, date/time values. But from the developer perspective it doesn't generally matter how this conversion actually happens, as long as there's something between the layers to do the thing.
RoR is very… specific. Some love it because it comes with magic. Many hate it for the same reason.
You either knows the magic and love it, or you hate it with a passion. You never really know when (not if) your change will break the system because it’s supposed to name in a very specific way that work by, again, magic.
I recently made a small pure JS package at my company. It just fucking worked, can you believe it? No setting up compilation and CI/CD for build + release. Just put it in the repo and publish manually, and it just worked, it’s ridiculous
Where can you point to other developers evidence that the code in git matches the code you deployed? Deploying locally built packages to prod is an automatically fireable offense because its not auditable
WTF are you talking about? All I’m saying is that if you write code (that in the context of this discussion passes arguments to a method you didn’t write, that may not be the type the author of the method expected someone to pass, but really, that’s completely beside the point), you should, oh, I don’t know, maybe test that it actually works, and maybe even (gasp) write some automated tests so that if anything changes that breaks the expected behavior, the team immediately knows about it and can make appropriate changes to fix it. You don’t need a strongly typed language to do any of that. You just need to do your job.
Consumer just needs to write 4x as many unit tests to make up for lack static typing. Hopefully the library author has done the same or you probably shouldn't use that library.
CI/CD is useful regardless of which language you’re using. Sooner or later some customer is going to yell at you because you didn’t discover the fatal error before deploying.
@magic_lobster_party@alphacyberranger@unsaid0415 CI/CD won't prevent that. I wonder what it is for. Not using the CPU on my laptop for tests? And why would I want to commit before knowing the tests pass?
CICD isn’t an alternative to testing your own work locally. You should always validate your work before committing. But then once you do, the CICD pipeline runs to run the tests on the automation server and kicks off deployments to your dev environment. This shows everyone else that the change is good without everyone having to pull down your changes and validate it themselves. The CICD pipeline also provides operational readiness since a properly set up pipeline can be pointed to a new environment to recreate everything without manual setup. This is essential for timely disaster recovery.
If you’re just working on little projects by yourself, it’s usually not worth the time. But if you’re working in anything approaching enterprise grade software, CICD is a must.
@Stumblinbear I only worked on small projects so far, that's probably why I don't understand it. But a merge commit is like any other commit and the person pushing this commit has to make sure it works.
When working in teams, merging in two pull requests with seemingly unrelated changes is common practice. If I had to rebase and re-run tests every time another PR got merged in while mine was awaiting reviews, I’d spend most of my time running tests
I thought it was clear: they’re implying JS is simpler/faster to write and deploy because transpilation is necessary when using TS (unless you use a modern runtime).
I continue to be baffled and amused by the complete meltdown of the typescript community over the actions of a single man on a single package. The only people who have legitimate gripes are those that had been actively contributing and whose work was erased. The rest of you are acting absurdly childish. The anger and vitriol being thrown at anyone who disagrees on how to write javascript would make me embarrassed if I was associated or involved in the ts community.
They not only removed typescript without implementing an alternative breaking many projects depending on that library but they did it without informing the open source community which means many people who invested their time in making PRs (there was 60+ open PRs) have to basically completely redo their work.
Yes, and the people directly contributing to the project have legitimate gripes. Although, the parable of dhh is if you get on an asshole scorpions back, don’t be surprised if you get stung. Dudes been an unreasonable prick for nearly 20 years now.
My comments directed at the manufactured outrage from the tooling zealots incapable of having a mature conversation. Or even accept a difference of opinion. The number of comments that start with, "never heard of Turbo, but let me weigh in on why you’re an idiot for not liking Typescript. " is very telling…
The fact is that I actually rather like JavaScript. I’d go so far as to say it’s my second favorite language after Ruby. Yes, a distant second, but a second none the less. This wasn’t always the case. But after we got proper classes in JavaScript, and all the other improvements that flowed since ES6, it’s become a real joy to write.
Is it just me or is the tone here unnecessarily aggressive?
Nothing is actually going on with typescript. This guy who’s a big name in programming for creating a lot of good things and having a lot of shitty opinions just removed typescript from one of their projects and some folks are desperate to make that be a big news.
They removed typescript because they saw no benefit in using it. Then a lot of folks who can’t deal with typescript got excited because “hey someone is trashing that thing I hate”.
To be perfectly frank, I’ve only seen the drama on social media platforms. Outside of this one library Ive hardly seen anyone trying to fight typescript in the professional community.
They deleted their tweet (or I can’t find it because I refuse to sign into Twitter on my phone) but when oven first started hiring they were extremely condescending towards the idea of work life balance. It’s a startup perpetuating the idea that startup employees need to cut themselves off from their lives and focus on work for minimal benefits - you know, until it “takes off”.
It caused quite a stir when it was posted, I’m surprised it’s so forgotten now.
Deno is still around and is even actively used, you have to use it if you want to write a Supabase edge function, for example. But it’s not used in mainstream development from what I can tell, it just never took off because it’s a very large idea shift from Node that requires a decent sized learning curve to figure out. The benefits are also not enough that it’s worth re-learning how to write server-side JavaScript. If you wanna write server-side JavaScript, Node is good enough that it’s not worth re-learning.
Still though, Deno is fairly obscure from a mainstream development perspective, and that’s what I wish on Bun.
To add, edge functions (powered by deno) are one of the bigger pain points of supabase. At least that’s my own practical experience and the experience of quite a few others on their github (discussions and issues).
In my current project, I started of optimistically (“Should be doable, they say you feel right at home coming from nodejs!”), tried rewriting some existing nodejs code and use edge functions just like your average nodejs powered serverless functions.
But in the end, things just didn’t work out:
deno’s crypto module just wasn’t up to scratch yet re nodejs compatibility (for my rather humble needs)
supabase uses –no-npm flag re its use of “deno deploy runtime”, which means node: specifiers for imports aren’t supported
the fact that unlike for serverless functions, which update their runtime only once you yourself trigger a new deployment (e.g. nodejs on vercel), “deno deploy runtime” is continously being updated to latest version, which to me still feels pretty strange for production use, considering how serverless functions handle runtime updates.
In the end I changed my architecture yet again, moved most of the code to an expressjs backend and only use edge functions as a kind of “tender” proxy layer with minimal dependencies (mostly just deno and some esm.sh imports; e.g. supabase-js).
Don’t get me wrong, supabase overall is a great thing and they do many things well! I’m still using them going forward. But edge functions just have the potential for being such a pain point in a project and many have already wished for also having the option for “classic” serverless functions.
Yeah, I really wish they’d gone a different way, it’s rough. I think they went the way they did because of the control they have over the run time environment, the ability to disable so much like writing to disk through flags makes it really easy for them to “trust” the edge functions, but man deno is rough.
He became a patron saint because he developed Rails, and he huffed too many of his own farts. His track record can be boiled down to thinking he knows what’s best and the evidence is damning
That solution ish the worst. Ctrl-shift-c does a shitload of different things in different programs, and in browsers it does different things per page.
Ctrl-ins, shift-ins, shift-del for the win bit THEN some programs simply refuse to support that.
I have like 4 different copy paste short cuts because of this and it sucks
I use standard Linux dual clipboard (Ctrl ins and just select, middle click) but most extra clipboards I’ve seen require a lot of extra clicking to get the work done. I want something simple stupid fast.
I’m running windows for my daily, but I’ve got Ditto and it works great. I have like 3 clipboards set up, could set up more. It just needs a different hotkey combination. It’s really simple.
No. They want to add syntax which allows browsers to parse typed code, but it would just be ignored - the type checking would still have to be done by e.g. Typescript.
I additionally mapped that latter one to F2, because being able to repeatedly copy from VIM and paste into another application without having to move your hand between mouse and keyboard is nice.
Of course, that’s VIM. If you meant “vim mode” in shell, then that’s a different story.
programmer_humor
Oldest
This magazine is from a federated server and may be incomplete. Browse more on the original instance.