I thought this was going to be a FOSS discussion, comparing GitHub and it’s current owner - Microsoft - to the ethics of other hosting services like codeberg.org or something.
A lot of people associated with Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) have major objections to GitHub. Here’s one summary: sfconservancy.org/GiveUpGitHub/
But the TLDR; version is roughly:
Your source hosted on GitHub is being used to train AI, and you are possibly giving up rights to algorithms you may have written (IANAL, and AI training is a fuzzy topic at the moment)
GitHub itself is proprietary, closed-source software, while they claim to be pro-FOSS. Aside from not being in the spirit of things, closed-source means you also don’t know what happens with your code/data once up upload it.
Microsoft has a history of being anti-FOSS, while some people will say it’s been changing, I think many are still rightfully concerned what their future decisions regarding GitHub might be, especially if they are a near-monopoly.
Alternative do exist, and some like codeberg.org are specifically open sourced, and pro-open source, so many people are pushing to move hosting away from GitHub and onto other options.
Thanks for explaining it in such good detail but I was referring to your last sentence. I’m new to lemmy and I’m still looking for good communities and blocking the bad ones. I apologise for not being clear enough in the first reply.
Oh - this isn’t a bad community, that isn’t what I meant by my last sentence - this is just a place for memes and jokes more than serious discussion, hence my expectation of a serious discussion was subverted. But programmer humor is still a great place.
The previous Microsoft’s CEO truly hates FOSS, famously calling it cancer. Then the next CEO reversed Microsoft’s stance on FOSS, acquiring the largest FOSS collaboration site. Naturally, many view this move with suspicion since Microsoft has a history of embracing something only to extinguish it later.
@towerful I mainly program in Go, so when I see all that extra software I notice how much easier it is when I get to just rely on the Go runtime. It does a lot of the heavy lifting done here, but the resulting code is not as clean. Actually just today I read through Mastodon’s code to track down a bug in my in-progress ActivityPub service (in Go) and found the Ruby really easy to navigate!
It probably wasn’t a big deal when it was a niche project until Twitter imploded. Then all the public instances got overloaded with new users and the limits became obvious.
A better design is Lemmy which is written in Rust so it has far more scalability. It’s compiled and because it’s tokio / actix based, it can also do a lot more stuff asynchronously so it’s not spawning thousands of threads to cope with concurrent requests.
RoR is too much magic for me. Getting started with any new code base is such a pain that I never want to do again. As a manager, I’ll avoid any job post that mentions Ruby. I have maintained projects written in Delphi, Centura, Java, C#, PHP and none of them even come close to the pain of RoR. Java and C# are notorious for ceremonial interfaces but that’s nothing compared to trying to figure out RoR automagics.
Maybe in enterprises settings what you say makes sense, but for the small to medium startups I usually work for, RoR is great. It’s super easy to prototype and switch lanes. If I had to do what I do in Java I’d go insane. As for Delphi…
The RoR “magic” being obtuse is extremely exaggerated most of the time and more meme than reality. If you think PHP is better, by which I guess you mean Laravel, how on earth is that less “magical”? React? Next? I’ll take Ruby any day.
React can go fuck itself with a pineapple, fuck that piece of shit. Every project I’ve had to deal with that used React was an absurdly bloated mess because it imported fuckloads of React plugins and addons.
There is a lot of magic in Java. Try Spring Boot for example, and things magically connect together with annotations, or somehow methods get injected onto interface on the fly, or an http interface maps onto a function with parameters because the runtime is doing it. This is most evident when you set a break point in some class and there might be 4 or 5 mystery functions it passed through between it and where you thought it was calling from. Sl4j, Lombok, Hibernate are doing the same kind of thing.
But Cinc and its sell-out dad Chef are really great uses of ruby, keeping us from YAML hell and the kludgey socket-machine-gun that is Ansible. That piece of shit has more lithium-lick than I’ve ever seen.
If we can’t have mgmtConfig (ohai go), at least let us keep Cinc, but it needs ruby.
I’ve written a non-trivial amount of Elixir. It’s nice, but I wouldn’t say it’s like Ruby. It’s more heavily functional, and it wants you to work with data in an immutable way. If you’re coming from a language that doesn’t force immutability, then you’ll be miserable until you get your head around how to work that way.
I really like it, though. Especially now that it’s getting optional typing.
Elixir is an awesome language. It takes some getting used to as it’s meant to be more functional like Haskell, but it plays really nicely with big parallel workloads and is super clean to write
Don’t learn Elixir to replace Ruby. Learn it to enjoy OTP and BEAM.
I would love to join a cool company that’s willing to accept a dev that can transition fast. However, most of Elixir job listings I find are gambling or crypto. And I ain’t gonna touch those.
I just store mine in memory (meat memory, not the computer stuff). If someone wants the source code I just tell them. Version control by oral tradition.
If it helps, even devs have problems following the install instructions.
It could be for a lot of reasons. Usually it’s because it’s open source and we can’t test it for every possible configuration. Or we are just trying to code, not deal with the dozen other setups.
Me in particular, all my application projects don’t include node versions, and assume Linux. Even I forget that sometimes if I’m loading a old project and suddenly it doesn’t build, and I have to futz around for an hour eupdating packages.
Didn’t you know? All the cool kids these days skip documentation and just hang out on discord, where you can get a laggy response to your query about build dependencies in 2-3 business days.
Reminds me how many years ago I was complaining that people would go ask questions on irc instead of reading docs or posting on a forum so it could be indexed. Looks like nothing changed
I try to write documentation/instructions for dummies, because often, I’m the dummy when I have to dig back into the code again after not touching or thinking about it in months or years.
If it makes you feel even better, I’m a software engineer and I had lots of trouble learning to use GitHub and git, it’s embarrassing to admit it but I’m super glad I learned!
Git isn’t properly taught. I’ve studied programming both in college and in a boot camp, and both times they rushed right over git, showing only the bare essentials. This left me unprepared for the real world. I didn’t know how to do basic stuff like exclude files or even undo changes.
It’s so complex, they really should have a separate class for it.
Same. I learned about the ‘releases’ section only recently thanks to some kind Lemmy user (kinder than some I’ve seen on Lemmy and reddit discussing this same image, some people are openly supporting gatekeeping of software).
Can someone explain to me why github apparently has bad UX/UI? I always thought the UI has gotten really good over the years.
[Edit] Like there this huge argument in these comments about the release button being all wrong. ??? No clue what people have against it. I thought it was fine? You can use it or not. People link to it if they want it more prominent. Someone explain?
[Edit 2] Also what’s up with the people who are vehemently against uploading bins to GitHub releases. This is literally what github is doing on their own repos. Not trying to say that anyone should feel obligated to release bins (CI/CD is a literal job title). People are releasing software for free because they want to. Let’s not look a gift horse in the mouth.
Idk I’m gonna stop reading this thread. its driving me crazy.
Around last year or the year before that they changed the placement of that button, never really given much thought about it tbf. Just a minor annoyance.
But yeah it was like in the same top row as the code/issues/pull-requests/wiki pages. Now you can only access it from the code page inside a lateral panel. Before that you could just jump to the releases from the wiki page, as an example.
I find that when you know how to use Github, Github is pretty easy and close to perfect for what it is, a code repository.
I think that most people who stumble across a Github link through a Google search, probably like in the original post, want to treat it like an app store. The read.me is the description, so they can tell it kind of does what they need, but they’re missing a big, green download and install button.
@nifty I have nothing against Ruby and think it’s a nice flexible language. At the peak of RoR though, all the asshats were all over Ruby.
My problem with Ruby wasn’t even RoR, it was with the way the asshats valued creativity “cleverness” which seemed to mean writing code in the most cryptic ways possible. These folks took what should be an expressive language and wrote scripts that rivaled Perl’s worst “read once and never again” scripts.
This wasn’t “creativity over code” so much as it was the tail end of y2k and all the greybeards were canned so none could teach the shiny whiz kid how to code like an adult.
Without the linus-like code review sessions, they never learned why and how to improve.
Now their kludge-bro mentality has raised a whole new generation.
And that’s why people don’t know not to flatpak or npm themselves into a solarwinds sploit.
I worked at Shopify up until a year ago. github.com/shopify/shopify repo powers almost every inch of Shopify’s infrastructure and is entirely a rails monolith. It is not the same as saying Twitter is still rails.
How long ago? ROOT (and other frameworks like GEANT) using C++ has been the standard for over 15 years, but probably longer. I think my advisor was of the last generation that had to write in Fortran.
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