I was originally a chip designer. Then I shifted into embedded development. Now I’m mainly a C# guy.
But when I shifted into embedded development, I also shifted into doing power engineering. I grabbed a couple of books on the topic at hand, taught myself a lot, and designed the electronics to meet the need. We sold the product to city utilities.
I remember one time I was in a room with probably 10 engineers from one of the utilities. After having described the product to them, and went through a lot of our settings and stuff, I was explaining the difference between two of algorithms we put in (because different utilities use different algorithms, and I just wanted one device that could do both). At some point I was like “which of the two algorithms do you use?” and one responded “well, which do you recommend?” So I talked about why I thought one was better than the other.
They all started looking at each other and nodding and saying “Yeah, that’s the one were going to use.” I realize I could have said anything at that point and they would have agreed. They thought I was expert. And that was my “last two frames” of this comic moment.
Now as a senior dev, I’ve seen enough shit to realize that most people have no idea what is going on, and are flying by the seat of their pants. So I figure my ignorance is a little less than theirs, and that gives me a lot of confidence, but I also realize that I can learn a lot from most people.
Now as a senior dev, I’ve seen enough shit to realize that most people have no idea what is going on, and are flying by the seat of their pants.
What’s helpful in my industry is that new development happens so frequently that the absolute best answer today is probably the wrong one in the next few years. Since I’m never on the absolute cutting edge, I have to trust my team to pitch the plan and we roll with it.
What I think makes me a senior is me knowing that we don’t know anything, but being able to create a plan if/when we have to make changes.
I’ve always felt like I don’t deserve my role, I climbed the proverbial ladder quick and I am very young for my position (Principal Engineer). But I sleep fine at night because at the end of the day I was always honest with my skills, my intentions and my motivations, and I’m always sure to get full agreement from everyone before doing stuff. If after all that nobody figured out I’m a fucking idiot just making an informed guess, that’s on them.
I always fear the next company I join will have “real technical leaders” who will inevitably show me my place, but it hasn’t happened so far (3-4 massive companies in the last decade).
Maybe one day I will meet this person, but it is not this day… And then I try to teach the same to younger engineers to work through problems as a team and just do it until somebody stops you, because in a lot of cases nobody has a clue either, and that’s what it means to lead.
When I was working stand-in positions such as after a move, for example retail, my favorite go-to when asked “Whyyyy?” was “I have no idea. No one told me anything.” I sometimes miss those days.
You’re right though. Most people have enough knowledge to do the steps of the job or task. For many of them skipping a step shuts down that memory, if only temporarily. I’ve met only a handful of true experts. People who can do things forwards, backwards, upside-down, and mix things up on the fly. They are BY FAR the most uncommon.
I’ve bounced off GitHub more than once trying to figure out how to download the .exe file that I assumed must be somewhere. Honestly I still don’t understand the interface and I’ve submitted bug reports for Jeroba on there. I might have even used GitHub for a project once? Every time I look at it it’s overwhelming and confusing and none of it is self-explanatory. But, that’s fairly true for a lot of stuff in programming.
If there is an exe, it’s under the releases link. On desktop it’s on the right sidebar below “About”. On mobile it’s at the bottom after the readme blurb.
It’s not obvious because the code is the main focus and GitHub would much rather people host their releases somewhere else.
And even if releases are hosted on github, there should ideally be a download links page somewhere that presents the different binaries or installation files in an easier to understand format, especially if the software is designed for non-developers.
I'd agree, but the caveat is that github is primarily about an interface for source control and collaboration between developers for projects. The release page is really just an also-ran in terms of importance.
Imo they aren’t even trying, because it’s not that hard to make it better. Doesn’t even have to be a compromise. Most people just need a visible download button for the programs, that’s all.
Or make a shortcut/link in the readme to the newest release of the most popular OS’s.
A decent release page tends to contain all kinds of files for different OS, so ‘regular’ people who just want the .deb or .exe would likely become confused regardless.
There is, it’s literally right there on the home page of the project. You can either copy a URL and download it by cloning the git repo, or you can download the whole project as a zip file. Then you just have to compile it!
That’s not a download button for the program. But there is indeed a link to the release page right on the home page of the project, so you’re still correct.
not only the ux, some devs make it absurdly confusing to find a binary.
I don’t want to throw anyone under the bus, but there’s this one niche app.
their github releases at one point were YEARS out of date, they only linked to the current version in seemingly random issue reports’ comments. And the current versions were some daily build artefacts you could find in a navigation tree many clicks deep in some unrelated website. And you’d better be savvy enough to download a successfully built artefact too. And even then the downloaded .zip contained all kinds of fluff unnescessary for using the app.
The app worked fine, sure, but actually obtaining it was fairly tricky, tbh.
absolutely, but they were in general (IIRC) suggesting them for the main downloads, but just not telling anyone outside the comments, which was the weird part
It’s not black and white. I actually liked a few things better about bit buckets UI. It’s been too long to remember specifics though I think it was concerning PRs and diffs. I still think GitHubs review UI is too complicated. It took me literally years to fully understand it.
I’m not so sure. I seem to be able to find my way around a GitLab project in much fewer moves than a GitHub project. But maybe I’m biased because I use it all the time at work. I know they change the sidebar a lot, though.
Comparing bad to bad doesn’t make any of them better lol
I’ve gone nuts trying to download a single file from the git website on my first interactions with it (because somehow adding a download file button when you’re viewing a file on the site is just too much to handle)
It doesn’t have to be a compromise imo. Most people just need a visible download button on the front pages. Wouldn’t hurt devs at all. I mean, even devs sometimes struggle with this lol.
Do MOST people who use GitHub download .exes? In my experience the VAST majority of people are using it for source and version control, not external releases. The overwhelming majority. FOSS and OSS is a small portion of the overall GitHub user base compared to, say, enterprise companies.
The github project page is for developers, and Github already gives you tons of ways to make a user website. Don’t ask your users to visit github.com/group/project, make them visit group.github.io/project, like any sane person.
Same with Gitlab, BTW.
And if you don’t like the full static site, use the wiki, or guide your users in the first paragraphs of the README so they find the user information if they must.
We’re talking about how to design one of the biggest platforms on the internet. Of course there is a compromise. No one is advocating for removing the button, but arguing that the UI is somehow deficient for people wanting to download binaries is really missing the purpose of GitHub.
Literally everyone? I’ve been a software engineer for ten years. My company doesn’t use it, and no company I’ve worked for has. I guess they are not part of “literally everyone?”
Explain to me how GitHub working on one product feature (releases) has no impact on how much they can work on others. Apparently in your rich enterprise software career you’ve found that resources and time are limitless? Or maybe you think it’s trivial for a platform like GitHub to change their UI.
This smacks of lots junior software engineers I’ve worked with who think problems are simple and solutions are easy because they’ve never actually DONE anything. I get that you’re very convinced that this is easy and cost less but it’s pretty clear to me you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Again. I’ve said before that release downloads are an additional feature. But it’s a feature most people use. Neither did I say it was easy, nor it was cheap. Just that it makes sense and that it doesn’t take anything away from the professionals regarding UI quality or focus.
No, what you mean is YOU use it and you’re assuming most people use GitHub the way you do. GitHub is first and foremost a platform for GIT. Git has nothing to do with releases or file downloads per se. Time spent improving the releases UI is time not spent doing other UI improvements. If you need more proof that it’s not worth it to spend time on the release UI, just take note of the fact that GitHub is not spending time on the release UI. If everyone was using it and it was deficient, do you really think that would be the case?
It makes sense from a pure UX perspective. But of course the real goal of GitHub is to make money, and their paying customers are mostly corporate entities using it for enterprise development. Unless those companies decide that a download button/better release feature is desirable, it’s not likely to happen.
Most corporations tie GitHub into their own build system so such a feature isn’t likely to be considered useful. They pay for GitHub to reduce development costs, which is why GitHub spends so much effort on analytics and the dev experience instead of open source/public users.
Thanks for understanding what I was getting at and your well written ‘realistic’ addition to it. There’s not much I can add besides saying you’re absolutely right.
Why would your company use that? Did they use github for public applications targeted to non-techincal users? Because that’s what that page is for and what a huge chunk of Github users do.
I use it both ways. As a software engineer I use it for various packages, which don’t even need a releases page. But also as an end-user of open source software, I use it to download pre-built binaries of said software. Idk if you know, but there’s a lot of open-source software out there. And github is the most popular platform for hosting it. And when I say software, I mean the kind where you don’t expect your users to know how to build it from code themselves.
If somebody doesn’t have an idea of what they’re talking about (allegedly) then it would be far more productive to explain it than to keep arguing about it without actually solving anything.
So when you just needed software to run on your machinr, you built it yourself. But first read every single line of code to ensure that it’s safe. Did I get that right?
Because if you don’t trust the developer to provide safe binaries then you wouldn’t trust the same developer to provide safe code either.
No, you shouldn’t really be downloading exe’s from github. It is widely being used to spread malware and to pretend that the software is open source when it is not. At least look for a link to the store page(including microsoft store), a distro-specific package or build instructions. Those usually have an AV scan or at least harder to fake.
Yeah a dude I know got hacked by downloading some random github program, the hacker even started taunting him via discord lol.
But I downloaded plenty of shit from github, like prusaslicer, my 3d printer’s firmware and plugins for octoprint. Always stuff that is verified via another page though. Almost never stuff that comes up during a random search, and if I do, I look it up first to see if it’s safe.
But if you want to put a some text and pictures in very specific locations and never worry about them suddenly jumping into random places, Excel is actually better than Word. That’s why people tend to use Excel for all sorts of weird purposes like that. Unlike with Word, things actually stay where you put them.
Yes and there are definitely people who use excel for art. Just like there are people who use GitHub for its releases page. It’s just not the primary use of either program.
I’ve seen some of the impressive pixel artworks people have made in Excel. However, I prefer to do Excel art by writing a bunch of wild functions and drawing a stacked line chart from the resulting data. The graph itself is the artwork, while the cells behind it are just a necessary part of the process.
Worst part is that this used to be a separate tab in the repo navigation. I still cannot conceive of a reason why they would move it from there to some random heading in the middle of the screen, except maybe so they can sell more GitHub trainings.
If you use it as a developer you don’t care about the releases page. You want to see the code and for latest version you just need the git tags. But I’ve also used it for stuff I just needed to run on my machine as an end-user. And for those you turn to the Releases page. That’s where pre-built binaries go.
But it also depends on the target audience. Some projects, even if meant more as software to run than code to import, still target mainly developers or tech users in general and will not have more than just instructions on how to build them. Others, say a Minecraft launcher, or some console emulator, will target a wider audience and provide a good Releases page with binaries for multiple platforms.
After downloading code from GitHub for years I can still take over a minute finding the file I want to download at times. Now that’s not long, but it’s why I’m there 90% of the time.
Honestly, releases and the readme could be the first page on their own, you can push the code to another tab as long as the clone button is there. There’s at most a 5% chance I’m just gonna raw dog the code straight from the browser anyways.
Isn’t that the idea. Like you know that you had a viable solution to a complex problem previously so why go through the trouble of solving it again if you already did. Even if you have to modify it, it saves time for new novel problems. I’m
That’s the way. I’ve been programming for nigh on four decades, and it’s almost a daily occurrence with junior devs going to stack overflow or chatGPT to solve an issue instead of just searching the code where nine times out of ten the problem (or a very similar one) is already solved.
It’s the backbone of the entire company I work at. And I work at one of the largest companies in its field. If it went down for an extended period of time the company would grind to a halt. I guess it’s called “IBM i” now but everyone calls it AS/400
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