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BaldManGoomba ,

This youtube series is a great way to show how someone gets inundated and can turn youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANn…

But here is somethings I noticed from my journey out of the right wing from my high school days.

First we were religious and we choose good decisions and other people’s choices were unwise and their fault but even though we lived in the same projects, our choices and how we lived their was unfortunate and their’s was their fault. It wasn’t explicit racism it was culture of racism. We were scared because we didn’t understand and thought we were superior since we were trying. Then we got better off and were in church more we got inundated with right wing propaganda on the economy and Frieman econmics blaming the government and socialism. We wanted to protect our jobs and our jobs blamed the government why they had to end manufacturing jobs in America. I graduated high school in 2010. I saw hatred towards Obama and noticed my side was with the KKK and I questioned it. That is how I got out. But if I kept to my beliefs I would have hated black people and others more. Thinking I was superior as a WASP (White Anglo Saxon protestant) since I made good decisions. My parents told me I could work through college and buy a house and everything and not to take out debt. So I tried that. It was impossible.

I blamed myself for not being good enough but I also didn’t do it right because I was testing it out and not using and abusing my connections. Which is how you get ahead. When I figured out I wasn’t enough and started to work with the people I know I was able to do more. But I could have blamed DEI stuff why I couldn’t get into college or get better jobs. But it was I just wasn’t good enough and the market is barren in Delaware.

My few relationships break ups I could have blamed it all on women and got a negative attitude with that too. Also since I was raised in the church a bit I could have said they should be a trad wife. But bleh

Back to being a Wasp. I could have blamed my failures and society failures on racist things or the color of my skin but I was lucky to realize it was the rich who fucked us all and the governments fault for letting it happen.

VelvetStorm ,

Ok, so this is my time to admit my very shameful past. I used to be racist, homophobic, and sexist(known as the big 3). I used my religion as an excuse for the sexism and homophobia and my father(my mom isnt racist and they are divorced) and dam near everyone on his side of the family is racist so I just grew up in that culture. Once I stopped talking to him and met a lot of people from other races, i learned we are all the same. Then I stated reading the Bible, and once I did that, I obviously couldn’t continue believing it.

So basically, it’s willful ignorance, and it is always easier to blame others for your own downfalls and it makes you feel better about your own shitty life if you can hate on someone else.

TokenBoomer ,

Good for you.

RubyRhod ,

Good for you.

I dunno it just made me think of that.

Jarix ,

Then I stated reading the Bible, and once I did that, I obviously couldn’t continue believing it.

Yeah nothing obvious about that. Your religion is idiotic, all religions are lies made up by con artists or crazy people. You cant be trusted if you need some book assembled over a 600 year period, edited and abused by religious leaders to control and manipulate the masses into maintaining and increasing their own powerbase, to tell you right from wrong.

Religion is just the old world version of todays billionaires

RubyRhod ,

Couldn’t agree more. Fuck a safe space for insane blatherskite.

“willful ignorance” lol

Like I don’t wanna beat up on the guy but… fuckin hell.

VelvetStorm ,

Ya, I was willfully ignorant for a while in my life, and then I started to actually practice critical thinking and developing a sound epistemology. I admitted I was wrong and took steps to change that. So what exactly is there to beat up on me about?

Jarix ,

Im glad they are a better person than they used to be, but that particular sentence made me laugh out loud

Trigger2_2000 ,

I’m so glad you were able to see the light and thank you for having the courage to put it out there for others to see.

The most difficult faults to see and change are our own.

Laborer3652 ,

This is my story too. Leaving Christianity behind has been an amazing and humbling experience.

someguy3 ,

I think the basis of this is that it’s not about knowledge. It’s about emotion, and anger and hate are easy emotions.

Don_Dickle OP ,

See that is exactly what I don’t get. emotion, anger and hate requires effort and as a very lazy person it seems like a whole lot of effort misspent

someguy3 ,

Thinking, analyzing, and understanding are the hard ones. Emotion and hate require next to no effort, just some years of listening to Fox or Rush Limbaugh. They’ll tell you who to hate and be angry at.

And like I said, hate is an easy emotion to have. If anyone is trying to tap into it, you’re likely being manipulated.

GrayBackgroundMusic ,

emotion, anger and hate requires effort and as a very lazy person it seems like a whole lot of effort misspent

Not to me. Emotions just are. My parents taught me a lot of bigoted ways and those emotions just rise up. I had to argue with myself against those thought, after I moved out and grew up.

mycodesucks ,
@mycodesucks@lemmy.world avatar

Nazis and incels need to be dealt with, yes, but the important thing to keep in mind is they are symptomatic of suffering swaths of the population. People don’t just do hate because it’s fun.

We let big businesses and the rich steamroll entire communities and industries, pay lip service to helping people who’ve been damaged by capitalism, and then after the election cycles are over leave their communities to rot. They are desperate and turn to the wrong answers because there aren’t any others.

We allow entertainment and advertising to blast our society with a particular view of what relationship “success” is, and accept mockery of those who cannot thrive in that narrow definition due to social anxiety or other mental issues as fair game. Those men are desperate and turn to the wrong answers because there aren’t any others.

Yes, Nazis and incels are absolutely awful, hateful problems that must be dealt with. And by the time they reach that point, I’d argue they probably can’t be saved. But they don’t fall out of the sky. They come from normal people whose cries for help went unheard, sometimes for decades, or generations. They’re the product of systemic injustices that we can mitigate with outreach programs and getting serious about mitigating the social problems that create the soil they spring from. Stopping them is a necessary band-aid, but the real solution is to address the situations that allow them to thrive in the first place.

Don_Dickle OP ,

symptomatic

Still reading your post and came across the word symptomatic being used correctly and if I had a hat I would either tip it to you or say my hats off to you…no sarcasm.

mycodesucks ,
@mycodesucks@lemmy.world avatar

if I had a hat I would either tip it to you or say my hats off to you

Hat inequity… yet another social ill we need to address.

militaryintelligence ,

I overheard my kids talking about whites being replaced, and saying the big N word. YouTube and the internet in general is a great recruitment tool. Yes, I talked to them.

giltwist ,

The core of the issue is the "Just World Fallacy" sometimes also called the "Prosperity Doctrine" and a few other things. It boils down to one core idea "Good things happen to good people, and bad things happen to bad people." Basically, everyone tends to think of themselves as, more-or-less, good people. So when bad things happen, as they inevitably do, these people start going "Huh, more bad stuff is happening to me than I've done bad things. WTF?" So, they come to a reasonable if flawed conclusion that "someone ELSE is doing bad things, and I'm collateral damage." This isn't entirely wrong, although sometimes bad things do just happen. However, since at least as far back as the Civil War (and probably since time immemorial), the people whose fault it REALLY is (i.e., the people with power and privelege) have pointed at outgroups, commonly immigrants but also slaves or Catholics or trans people, and said "THOSE people are being bad. THOSE people are why you are suffering. Give me more power and I'll get rid of THOSE people."

shalafi ,

Wow, well said and succinct, much love.

TSG_Asmodeus , (edited )
@TSG_Asmodeus@lemmy.world avatar

This video is actually shockingly relevant right now, and does go through (some of) the ‘hows’ and ‘whys’.

Remember that tradwife/incel/etc shit is all just fascism boiled down into specifics. The Nazi’s sent women who wouldn’t marry to camps just as easily as Jewish people, gypsies, etc. We think of the Fascist movement as specifically anti-Jewish people, maybe throw in some gay people/etc, but Unionists, Communists, Socialists, and Women were targeted as well.

The reason it works is because it offers easy answers, and the average person has been made to be so lazy they’ll accept what they’re told, especially if they’re told everyone else is doing it. They aren’t a Nazi, they’re part of the Nazi’s.

We also have a huge backlog of emotional baggage for men post the 1980’s. At some point we all accepted that men wouldn’t show any emotions except anger, rage, frustration, etc, and then kept doubling down on it. Now you have groups of young men fed directly into a pipeline of Facebook/Youtube/whatever platform that spoon feeds them fascist garbage. Why? Because it makes them tame and easier to control. You notice fascists aren’t out there killing rich people, they’re killing minorities? That’s by design, because the wealthy know they’re fucked if young men turn that rage against them, the real perpetrators of said poor people’s suffering.

The wealthy love fascism, it gives them everything they want. They don’t see the poor people below them as human, so it’s all just a giant menagerie to them so they can have their Line Go Up Faster than the other rich people.

Don_Dickle OP ,

Watched five minutes of it and bookmarked it. Thanks for the link

GrayBackgroundMusic ,

that YT link doesn’t need anything after the and-sign. www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGAqYNFQdZ4

TSG_Asmodeus ,
@TSG_Asmodeus@lemmy.world avatar

Removed everything after the ampersand, thank you. O7

Flax_vert ,

Tiny peepee

gedaliyah ,
@gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

Bigotry has been about ignorance. It has always been about manufacturing social division through propaganda.

FireTower ,
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

Some people have problems in their life and it is convenient to believe they are do to an outgroup. You mention knowledge against it but these people live their lives and insert their instilled prejudices to explain the flaws, making them have (fake) first hand proof of their beliefs.

Don_Dickle OP ,

Ok while I may agree. But my father taught me when I was younger that a black woman has no place in this world so you will have to work extra harder to overcome hate and other things…my question is was he right? I say this as a now 41 year old.

FireTower ,
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

a black woman has no place in this world…

Wrong on this half, in that the factors of your birth & immutable traits or public opinion of those can’t prevent you from have a place here regardless of any opinions.

…you will have to work extra harder to overcome hate and other things…

You would know the answer from you past 41 yrs better than I would.

Nemo ,

What they get is blaming others for their problems.

Don_Dickle OP ,

Seriously? So they fill themselves up with this shit and are ok with putting it out there? I will never understand it because I am very very lazy and it kind of seems like hate requires alot of effort.

ICastFist ,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

Ironically, this kind of hate requires no effort, someone says “GROUP BAD!” and you just sneer and shout towards them. It’s way, way easier to blame a group than understanding all the things that are making your life/city/country/world go wrong

“Of COURSE the evil jew gay black communist feminist conspiracy is the root of all evil, they hate MY way of life!”

There’s also the point that most conspiracy theories capitalize on the “this is a secret THEY don’t want you to know!”, so it makes people feel smart (despite them believing in utter bullshit)

Don_Dickle OP ,

Well I grew up with cable tv and the only news I got was PBS. And never felt hatred or whatever to a person who is different from me. I may have gotten the shit beatin out of me alot of time in school because of it. But it did not change my views.

Zozano ,
@Zozano@lemy.lol avatar

I know some people are born into these mindsets. I know what it’s like to have been raised by a bigot; indoctrinated thoughts are the hardest to change.

I am convinced a large part of the problem is some people prefer convenient answers which make immediate sense, as opposed to nuanced truths.

Could it be that racism creates conditions which lead to a higher frequency of situations which will reinforce racist stereotypes? Too much thinking involved, it makes more sense that the blacks are inherently different.

octopus_ink ,

Could it be that racism creates conditions which lead to a higher frequency of situations which will reinforce racist stereotypes? Too much thinking involved, it makes more sense that the blacks are inherently different.

I have struggled to communicate what you said in your first sentence in less than paragraphs several times and failed. Thank you for giving me an example of how to say it succinctly. Let’s hope I can remember/replicate that the next time I try to get the concept across to someone.

Don_Dickle OP ,

You should do an AMA it would be nice to hear about your exp growing up like that and how you changed your life.

Zozano ,
@Zozano@lemy.lol avatar

Unfortunately my experience is nothing short of common. Our current generation is the most tolerant in history, so naturally our parents will hold bigoted opinions.

If you want to hear a fascinating story, listen to Megan, who left the “God hates fags” church, and now tries to explain indoctrination.

Don_Dickle OP ,

I bookmarked this to. I am really filling up bookmarks with all these great links. So thank you.

probableprotogen ,

For the nazis, a big problem is the alt-right pipeline that plagues sites like Youtube, along with an unstable political climate, which generally causes radicalization (Weimer Germany is also a very good example of this phemona)

As for incels, a big problem is admittably a mental health crisis plauging many men, generally causing them to become resentful of women out of loneliness.

TLDR: Poor mental health and instability

ShepherdPie ,

The latter is aided by the same things as the former. Too many youtubers condition young men to think that women are the problem and the fact that they don’t take care of themselves or socialize with others doesn’t matter and it’s really the fault of everyone else. I used to online game with a couple of these guys who weren’t too bad until recently. They were both basically shut-ins who still somehow held strong beliefs about the outside world and why things are the way they are even though they didn’t really participate with the outside world.

jjjalljs ,

Yeah the Internet is full of traps that are engineered to draw men in. There’s blood on Google’s hands for just letting that happen. (And probably other companies too, but YouTube is big)

Related note: unchecked capitalism makes everything worse. Trying to get dates and the apps are just like “pay us $5 and maybe we’ll show your profile to someone. Be a shame if your beautiful profile just never showed up for anyone.”

funkless_eck ,

YouTube but also porn. As it’s much less regulated in terms of tone and content, you get a lot of casual racism, misogyny and similar just thrown into the videos of pene and vagene

yourgodlucifer ,

during gamergate i started going down the alt right rabbithole (at some point i stopped when i realized this was associated with out right nazi shit and re-evaluated my beliefs)

I was one of those “i am very smart” people as a teenager but I’m actually an idiot I was also a pick me (I am a woman). I found those video clips of feminists everyone was sharing at that time and became convinced that feminist = man hater it can be easy for people to twist fringe beliefs from a group and present that as common among that group. Due to this and me being a lazy idiot who didn’t fact check because I thought I was to smart to be mislead I went further down the rabbithole

I also blame poor us education on civil rights issues my state (new mexico) is on the bottom of the list for education i think it was around 49th at the time I was in school they presented civil rights issues as if they were solved so i thought “these sjws don’t want equality they want women/minority superiority” I thought they wanted to oppress the previously oppressive groups as revenge not realizing that civil rights issues have not been solved that we haven’t attained equality even though the law was supposedly equal.

I believed in equality but it got twisted by fascist lies into opposing actual progress and equality.

I can see how people went further down the rabbit hole one of the things these videos talked about was how the crime rate was higher for black people and that’s why there is more police brutality against black people. I can see how someone could take this information out of context and start thinking that black people were more crime prone inherently and that’s where some of these people took it.

ignorance is one of the biggest causes of prejudice.

psilotop ,

What is a “pick me?”

shalafi ,

“I’m one of the good ones! I’m on your team!” Kinda like how many of us view blacks and gays who support conservative politicians.

someguy3 ,

I thought they wanted to oppress the previously oppressive groups as revenge

I think the origin of this is it’s what certain people think and they try to push out into the system.

Essentially, those certain people want to enslave and dominate others. That’s how their brain works. So they project that’s what others want to do to them. They can’t mentally process that people want actual freedom and equality for everyone.

shalafi ,

Yes, that’s how their brains work! Not so much a moral failing, they’re wired different. Hard to get your own wiring around that.

I often see this in the idea of life being a zero-sum game. If someone gets a thing, that thing was taken from someone else. If blacks and gays get rights, my rights were taken!

See all the complaints that gay marriage diminished hetero marriage. Illogical and incomprehensible as it seems, keep in mind the zero-sum thinking and it makes far more sense.

GBU_28 ,

Feeling like a victim has a certain… Freedom.

These folks hunt for a bogeyman that “suits” the ills of their life, then apply the hateful stereotypes.

For the incel example: if they are a failure to launch and also can’t get a girlfriend…

  1. There’s some social order conspiracy + a genetic lottery they lost. It’s not their fault they aren’t desirable, everything was stacked against them. Their enemy (super chads and stupid Stacys) deserve hate because they overlook the incel and keep them down
  2. They never developed social skills, are disrespectful and only see women as sex objects/possessions. If they cultivated some hard work, maturity, and respect for others, they would be much happier with life, and likely find a partner.

The first option is way easier… Just blame everyone else!

mke_geek ,

It’s easier on someone’s ego to blame someone or something else rather than admit they have faults.

GBU_28 ,

Well put

Don_Dickle OP ,

Before incel was a thing and way before Andrew Tate…I thought my brother was an introvert. Because he could not get a gf in High School. Like me I just thought wait until he gets out and he will get one. Then I learned about incels this was about the time I heard Andrew Tate come on the seen. When my brother turn 21 I told him we are going to a bar and I am getting you drunk for the first time. Well we also smoked his first joint before hand and then went in. I was the sober driver and kept ordering cranberry juice. All the while I kept ordering him shot and buckets of beers and everything. I will never forget this put his head on the counter and I thought he passed out. But I shook him and he jumped to and started dancing on the dance floor and everything. I was like WTF. He then started hitting on girls/women and getting their phone numbers. He even got one to blow him in the bathroom. He came back to me totally messed up and told him we got to leave and we left. Well I almost had to drag him out to the car because he wanted more numbers. Long story a little bit longer I and I am probably wrong that incels need to get drunk or high and become more motivated like my brother was.

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