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Curious_Canid ,
@Curious_Canid@lemmy.ca avatar

Energy pricing in Texas is managed for the benefit of the utilities, not their customers. Some of the people on non-fixed plans who got charged insane amounts just went bankrupt.

Texas is a nearly perfect example of how the Republicans think everything should work.

remotelove ,
@remotelove@lemmy.ca avatar

I can just pray my bills away? Neat!

sartalon ,

Close but not correct.

It’s an established marketplace, where legislated “middlemen” buy from the utilities and then sell to the consumer.

You can’t actually buy directly from the utility generating the power without going through the marketplace.

It is sold as a “free market” that would drive competition and keep prices down. In actuality, it just allows leaches, who don’t actually produce anything, to sit in the middle and suck money out of the economy.

Sure some of them will lose money, while others will make a billion, but the system works just fine as a regulated controlled monopoly.

Texas is a perfect example of Republican hypocrisy. The Governor, Lt Governor, State AG, etc… are quite literally the worst kind of politicians.

I seriously dislike Sheila Jackson Lee, but I feel bad about her situation.

I would laugh if that wheel chaired, piece of shit rolled off a cliff.

I would laugh if Dan Patrick caught on fire.

On second thought, I might use Ken Paxton to put out the fire, by that I mean, push him onto Dan, hoping he would catch on fire too.

Shit, that went a lot darker than I intended.

trolololol ,

Oh right I see here the old fallacy that economic agents have a full thorough understanding of all the choices and make fully rational decisions based on all the facts that exist, because why would you have facts not accessible to everyone?

sartalon ,

Umm, what?

rekorse ,

If you have a point to make, say it.

trolololol ,

Free market is a lie

Economics is not a science

Let the down votes come

Mango ,

Texas; where people with power make extra money for specifically not doing good enough.

Brokewood ,

That’s some next level owning the libs.

altima_neo ,
@altima_neo@lemmy.zip avatar

I’m certainly feeling owned right now. Ouch!

ramble81 ,

Just like to point out that Jerry Jones (the owner of the Dallas Cowboys) made almost $1 Billion, with a B, during the big freeze because he owns the natural gas fields and his good budy Governor Abbot said that wholesalers must sell for the max amount as allowed by law during that time, basically legalizing price gouging.

FenrirIII ,
@FenrirIII@lemmy.world avatar

If it’s Republicans, it’s legal.

BlameThePeacock ,

Most residents aren’t on these types of plans. The ones that are turn shit off, or pay through the nose.

TexasDrunk ,

Generally the ones that are on those plans are the most vulnerable. I’ve got a fixed TXU plan. The up front cost of being on it was a couple of hundred bucks because I had bad credit at the time. The pay as you go variable rate places don’t have that up front cost and when it’s not peak times they’re significantly cheaper.

Unfortunately they don’t always let people know in time when the rates spike. So these vulnerable people don’t even realize they should be turning shit off or they’re not home to do it or it’s a heat wave/ice storm where they could just fucking die if they turn off climate control.

It’s been a fucking mess down here in Houston. My electricity came up pretty quickly and I was able to head west and grab a hotel for a night so I didn’t get heat stroke. I’m lucky. I was able to come back and eat the brisket I smoked before Beryl came through (I’m a stereotype, sue me). But there are people who still don’t have electricity in this fucking weather and there are others who have to decide between their fridge and their AC.

I’m drunk, bitter, and pissed off tonight. So I’m gonna ramble.

TunaLobster ,

Toss these guys a few bucks the next time your plan is up for renewal and see what rate you can get. Usually TXU is on the high side. www.texaspowerguide.com

TexasDrunk ,

It is, but it wasn’t when I got on the plan. I happened to hit it at just the right time. I’ve been too lazy to shop around since then.

I’m gonna take that advice. I’m up again in either November or December I think. I need to go look.

Today ,

Drunk, bitter, and pissed off. That should be our state motto. Cheers!

Triasha ,

Most of us don’t pay the market price hour to hour. Our electricity provider absorbs the risk of price spikes and raises our rates if the math stops working for them.

Griddy was a provider that sells at the market rate, which is usually below the general price you would pay, but you take the risk of price spikes during peak demand.

Kaboom ,

Thank you! So much misinformation floating around, its ridiculous.

frunch ,

Griddy

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/2364fc2a-0fef-4999-891a-035827b65a21.jpeg

cloud_herder , (edited )

I’ve done lots of tech projects within the retail energy industry in Texas - this is the right answer.

To expand a little bit:

Retail energy providers (REPs), like NRG, ClearSky, Just Energy, etc. make their money by forecasting the amount of energy that will be needed as far in advance as possible and purchasing that amount from power generators like CenterPoint and marking it up a few cents. The farther out, the cheaper they can get it. I’ve helped build forecasting engines for a few that ingest historical usage data from meters (all meters in Texas are smart meters), weather data, and others to use machine learning to forecast how much individuals will need and aggregate it together to help the energy traders make better informed trade decisions farther out.

If they mess up or an unforeseen event happens and they don’t have enough energy bought for that time segment (forgot the term for a window of time they use), they have to go to the spot market which is where the prices fluctuate and can be many many multitudes higher than the rate the customers are contracted to pay.

In a storm scenario or a freeze, it can be thousands of times more expensive because demand is so high and supply is so limited. This is when REPs go bankrupt if they don’t have the cash on hand.

There are also insurance plans that the REPs pay for that cover very specific conditions for different types of events or outages that can kick in to cover the huge costs they would otherwise incur on their own buying electricity at that spot rate. I’ve known a few that were only able to stay operating because someone a few years prior had bought an insurance policy that covered said weather event.

Griddy died because of the ice storm in Texas a few years ago and the huge costs people incurred. I actually met with their CIO the year prior as part of a technology assessment of their stack. Nice guy.

Edit: also you can largely thank Enron and Rick Perry for deregulating Texas’ energy - which directly led to the terrible “performance” of the Texas grid during the winter storm Uri in 2021. Same for Enron in the constant blackouts in California in the early 2000’s.

regdog ,

They don’t

PrincessLeiasCat ,

If they don’t have fixed rate, they’re in a pickle.

Source: sadly live in Texas

HoustonHenry ,

Yeah, they’ll happily send you a bill without fixed rates as soon as they can

Triasha ,

I thank my lucky stars to be in San Antonio where we have municipal power.

People complain about CPS (city public service) but we get a say in how the company is run and our bills are quite reasonable compared to the state average.

independantiste ,
@independantiste@sh.itjust.works avatar

The article and comments here make me very happy to live in Quebec where the electricity is 0,067CAD per kWh for the first 40, then after it is 0,103CAD per kWh, and most of the time, that electricity is 100% renewable. In Québec we have many problems but the electricity is one big point to be proud of as a nation

Grimy ,

A big part of that is it’s all state owned. Having private companies in charge of something as vital and important as energy infrastructure is just pure folly imo.

independantiste ,
@independantiste@sh.itjust.works avatar

Yeah 100%. the current government here has a tendency to do bad stuff and a big fear here is they will slowly make it more private owned. But I think that every essential service should be state owned. electricity, groceries, clothing, internet etc. We have too few companies here that share too much of the market

Grimy ,

But I think that every essential service should be state owned. electricity, groceries, clothing, internet etc.

I’m right there with you. To think our food security hinges on a bunch of fat cats and the stock market makes me nauseous. If I start talking about the telecom industry, I might just throw my phone. Change is long overdue.

independantiste ,
@independantiste@sh.itjust.works avatar

Telecom industry is so corrupt here it’s unbelievable they get away with it

Semi_Hemi_Demigod ,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

I like how my state does it. The grid is managed by a public utility, but we can shop around for providers. The utility handles the billing, and switching providers is super easy. I’m paying 9.5¢/kWh for 100% renewable energy, which is about 10% cheaper than the base rate I’d pay if I just used the utility.

AlecSadler ,

$0.058 / kWh here in rural Oregon, it’s pretty awesome.

GreyEyedGhost ,

Now do the exchange rate.

WhyFlip ,

How much is your income taxed? ~60%, like the rest of Canada?

independantiste , (edited )
@independantiste@sh.itjust.works avatar

The last bracket which starts at 235k is about 58% (but there are many ways to put money aside to lower your income bracket). But don’t lose our hair worrying if we will have to file for bankruptcy to get basic healthcare. In Montreal we have a top 10 world university that costs less than 1000$ per semester for citizens. We also don’t have to worry about people carrying guns around. But go on I guess

Hugh_Jeggs ,

Holy propaganda-muncher 😂

Triasha ,

Bullshit.

Thorny_Insight ,

According to ChatGPT:

15% on the first $49,275 of taxable income.

20% on the next $49,275 of taxable income (over $49,275 up to $98,550).

24% on the next $19,170 of taxable income (over $98,550 up to $117,720).

25.75% on the taxable income over $117,720.

GreyEyedGhost ,

If you want to talk about taxes, include cost of your healthcare. Because that’s included in our taxes.

Fun fact, America pays as much per capita for healthcare through taxes as Canadians, but that only gets you Medicare and Medicaid. Americans sure get angry about a lot of things, but I never see them get angry about that.

John_McMurray ,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    independantiste ,
    @independantiste@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Thanks for getting to our level on your own 😘

    massacre ,

    That’s the neat thing! They don’t.

    Thorny_Insight ,

    What’s so neat about it?

    OhStopYellingAtMe ,
    @OhStopYellingAtMe@lemmy.world avatar

    sarcasm

    ICastFist ,
    @ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

    It’s a meme

    Thorny_Insight ,

    I live in Finland and me like a large number of other Finns have a plan in which the price changes every hour according to the market price. Typical price for electricity is around 4c/kWh in the summer and around 15c/kWh in the winter. However it’s not uncommon at all for the price to spike into 30c/kWh or even 70c/kWh. Last winter there was a day that it spiked to 200c/kWh.

    How do we deal with it? By turning down/off the heating if possible and burning wood instead. If not then you just deal with it and have to pay significantly more for a few months. Then again if your plan has a fixed price to like 10c/kWh then that also mean you’re paying that even when the price drops to zero which also is not uncommon at all. Often happens several times a week during the summer time. Sometimes it even goes into negative. It’s still not literally free though since the transfer cost is around 6c/kWh plus energy fee and taxes.

    chaosmarine92 ,

    How do you keep up with the current price? Does your thermostat have a setting where if the price is above X then turn off? Do you just come home to a freezing house and say “oh the electric is too expensive, guess I’ll grab some wood”?

    Thorny_Insight ,

    I check sahko.tk in the evenings to see if it’s going to be particularly expensive the next day. This is mostly in the winter time, at summer I hardly pay any attention to it. They usually warn people in the news too for the handful of really expensive days in a year. Depending how high it gets I might turn off the heating for the peak hours but generally not because it doesn’t really make that of a big difference as the prices average out over a long period of time. Some people have automatic thermostats that turn off the heating after the electricity price passes a certain limit. My water heater for example is set to go on during the night when electricity is at its cheapest.

    chaosmarine92 ,

    Are the predicted prices ever crazy far off from what they actually end up being like what happened in Texas last winter? Where am outage causes price to go from like 20c/khw to 2000c/khw over a one hour period?

    Thorny_Insight ,

    No, the prices are decided about 24 hours in advance and they don’t change after that.

    GreyEyedGhost ,

    Seems like a pretty sane way to handle market pressures, rather than, “I hope nothing terrible happens and my bill is suddenly thousands of dollars.”

    z00s ,

    So it costs you more when it costs more to produce, but when it’s free to produce it still costs you money.

    Love corporations

    Thorny_Insight ,

    No… First of all: electricity is never free to produce. Running a powerplant costs the same no matter what price the electricity is at. The price goes to zero when supply greatly overceeds demand. That means I’m not paying to the electric company for the electricity but I’m still paying for the company that maintains the grid to deliver that electricity to me. It doesn’t just magically hop from the powerplant to my house.

    Today , (edited )

    Maybe it depends on your energy provider and whether you have a fixed rate or variable rate plan? I don’t know if other places have those options or not. Check out powertochoes.org if you don’t know what I mean. Mine just went up from $200 to $300 this month with the heat. My highest is usually 1-2 months of ~$350.

    pugsnroses77 ,

    $350? 😭 ive never had an electric bill above $150

    SOMETHINGSWRONG ,

    They just make a lot of money or lived outside their means. When people mention big AC bills, they’re cooling 2000sqft homes to under 70F 24/7. No idea why American culture does this insanity.

    I get by just fine with 78F during the day and a little lower at night, it even gets a bit cold when the compressor runs. Low low bills even when it’s 110 (not hyperbole, that’s the literal temp) outside.

    Additionally every degree higher it gets outside, the less efficient your AC/heat pump gets so you need more power to hit the same temp even after accounting for the higher heat differential.

    sunzu ,

    I had 300 dollar bills peak season in one bed apt before due to poor insulation. Being poor sucks. I thought it was a good deal until the bills came in lol

    doughless ,

    My average bill is $350, with summer months reaching ~$650. But, I have 3100 sq feet with 7 people at home and 2 EVs. Including monthly service fees, my per kWh cost works out to 11.9 cents.

    Today ,

    Who’s your provider? My plan is about to expire. I’m looking at Octopus for 13.4 cents.

    doughless ,

    SRP, but they only operate in Phoenix, AZ.

    Confused_Emus ,

    What’s your dew temp?

    Today ,

    2400 sq ft. Just two of us now, but I’m home in the day during the summer and we have frequent guests. In past years we had elderly mom and nursing care here so we had to keep it comfortable all day. We heat/cool upstairs only at night, downstairs only in the day and close vents in unused rooms. Our mid-90’s HVAC can’t get to 70°. We did get an electric pellet grill last year and we’ve been using it a lot to keep from heating the house. I wonder how much that adds.

    Trainguyrom ,

    We did get an electric pellet grill last year and we’ve been using it a lot to keep from heating the house. I wonder how much that adds.

    A rule of thumb I heard from datacenters is to count every watt of power consumption as 3 to account for the additional demand on the cooling systems and battery backup, so an electric grill probably saves a ton of energy over the oven given it isn’t heating up the house

    Today ,

    In Texas? It’s 600 degrees here today. Friend refers to it as Satan’s asshole.

    InternetCitizen2 ,

    His name is Dan Patrick.

    Today ,

    Took me a day to realize that abbot was Satan and Patrick was his asshole.

    dandroid ,

    What part of Texas are you in? Here in the Austin area, it was like 85°F. It was super nice. Looks like it’s gonna be nice tomorrow as well.

    Today ,

    Dallas. We’re 97-101 the next few days, then it drops to 90 with a chance of rain Thursday and Friday. Glad I’m not in Houston sweating without electricity!

    Tower ,

    Arizona here. My August service bill is the highest of the year, usually ends up around $425 or so with the thermostat set to ~76. January is usually the lowest, and I can get that down to about $75. Averages out to about $220/mo over the year. It’s ridiculous.

    vrek ,

    In the apartment I just moved out of, even after several complaints I had summer electric bills $600+ and it was still hot…night before I moved it was 91 outside and 89 inside. So far my new apartment is better but haven’t seen any electric bills yet

    Trainguyrom ,

    I live in Wisconsin where it can get down to -20 before wind-chill in the winter and the heat index pushes 100 in the summer, plus our summers are basically always 100% humidity for months at a time. My house was built before the turn of the century (the 19th century specifically) and both my furnace and AC are on their last legs. With all that said, I get $250 bills in the summer months and it pushes close to that in the winter, but during the spring and fall when it’s a lot more reasonable they can get under $100

    Nothingwise ,

    Vote. Shit won’t change if you don’t make yourself heard.

    Burn_The_Right ,

    True! But Texan dems do vote, despite knowing that as long as a conservative is governor, the election actually will be rigged. In Texas, state elections are under the complete control of a conservative governor, as he appoints a loyal Secretary of State to handle his elections.

    Are elections in Texas handled with transparency and honesty? Awwe heeelllllll no. They are handled the way you’d expect a conservative to run an election. With secrecy and a creepy little conservative grin. “Oh, you were so close y’all! Oh, well. Better luck next time!”

    While I agree that Texans need to continue voting, it seems pretty obvious to me that pacifist methods cannot yield change against conservatism. Voting in Texas is like voting under Putin. Voting is good, but it’s not what is going to cause a regime change. Only severe and widespread action can have any effect against the deadly cancer of conservatism.

    GlendatheGayWitch ,

    We were only 600,000 votes away from a Biden victory in 2020 because we didn’t have enough voters. TX has pitiful voter turnout, even with 2 weeks if open polls, with polls required to be open at least 12 hours a day on the weekday.

    In 2020, even with what’s called amazing turnout, with a voting age population of 21.5 million, 17 million were registered, and 11.3 million cast a vote. Then in 2022, when we had the entire legislative branch, almost all of the executive branch, and a good chunk of the judicial branch up for election, only 8.1 million people voted.

    Even with these numbers, Biden still received more votes in TX than he did in NY! There’s potential for us to get some better representation, if we can just get more people to get to a polling station (usually open 7AM-7PM during the second week of voting).

    We need more people to turnout this year, not only to keep Trump from our electoral college votes, but to kick Ted Cruz to the curb. There is a lot in the news pushing people away from the pills and making people mad at the DNC just like in 2016 and its really scary because those tactics helped keep people from casting their vote.

    Turnout number source www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/…/70-92.shtml

    Burn_The_Right , (edited )

    Your source is not reliable at all. Your source is the Texas Secretary of State who is appointed directly by Gov. Abbott. He and his minions are notoriously dishonest and are not reliable sources of any information.

    Your source is one of the many places Gov. Abbott tells TX Dems “ohhh… So close, y’all! Better luck next time.”

    GlendatheGayWitch ,

    If you don’t believe the official counts, than where would you go for a source?

    Burn_The_Right ,

    Anywhere but the scene of the crime! Are you kidding? Why on earth would you ask Abbott why election results are so inconsitent with polling data? Abbott, a known serial liar, is responsible for all the secrecy, shady vendor dealings and lack of transparency in our state elections. You should not just take his word for it.

    KingThrillgore ,
    @KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

    If you think your vote doesn’t count, you have to accept the state is lost and move somewhere else. Sorry.

    Burn_The_Right ,

    I agree 100% and I’m working on that.

    remotelove ,
    @remotelove@lemmy.ca avatar

    More questions here than answers, unfortunately.

    It’s my understanding that there is a cap at $5000/MwH ($5/kwH). That is still hella expensive, but would only be for a day or two at maximum?

    For the headlines of +$16000 power bills, that is probably a one-off for heavy power consumers, like businesses that have massive freezers and such, correct?

    Kalkaline ,
    @Kalkaline@leminal.space avatar

    I have a friend from high school that got hit with a something like $20,000 bill because he signed up for some discount program on his electric bill. The freeze a couple years ago did similar things to demand and he got hit with a massive bill.

    AlecSadler ,

    I presume he couldn’t pay it? What happens after that? Do you get blacklisted from power companies?

    Burn_The_Right ,

    You get tossed to collections and your credit is ruined. It makes it very hard to rent, finance anything or get certain jobs.

    AlternatePersonMan ,

    Not correct.

    I have coworkers in Texas that got hit with multi thousand dollar bills during brown outs.

    Deregulating critical services never ends well for the consumer.

    meco03211 ,

    A properly insulated industrial freezer should consume less electricity than a house with AC, even if it’s set at a reasonable temp.

    remotelove ,
    @remotelove@lemmy.ca avatar

    TIL. It makes sense that they can be more efficient now that you pointed that out.

    FuglyDuck ,
    @FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m curious as to how this would compare to a properly insulated home?

    most the houses in texas are uninsulated to keep construction costs down. (despite the fact that even a minimal amount of insulation would pay for itself inside of a year or two.) (Why would you want to insulate against heat, right? global warming is a woke-ist hoax! /s)

    bitchkat ,

    New houses or ones built in the 1960’s? If its new houses, how does code not specify a minimum R value? Its not just about keeping heat in in the winter, its needed to keep the heat out in the summer.

    FuglyDuck ,
    @FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

    texas doesn’t require a specific r-value for walls in the southern third of the state. (the rest it’s r-5). They do require some insulation in an attic.

    Most (cheap) homes don’t slap up insulation if they don’t have to. and r-5 is an extremely low value.

    and further, that’s only on new houses. There’s plenty of old houses still in circulation and the vast majority of the old houses are entirely uninsulated. a properly insulated house, you can keep rooms warm just by being in them. we saw that’s not true of homes in texas during the big freeze a while back.

    Its not just about keeping heat in in the winter, its needed to keep the heat out in the summer.

    that’s this sarcastic comment was about:

    (Why would you want to insulate against heat, right? global warming is a woke-ist hoax! /s)

    bitchkat ,

    When I was growing up the people across the street had an uninsulated houses – in NW Wisconsin.

    I guess Texas is going to do Texas things but with the heat and the grid falling apart every couple of years, they really should mandate the same level of insulation that we do up north.

    FuglyDuck ,
    @FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah… I’m in MN.

    It’s not like we don’t get triple digits ourselves in recent years. And it really does come down to shaving down those construction costs. The insulation would pay for itself in like 2 years, though.

    MelodiousFunk ,

    they really should mandate

    That sound you hear is Texas loudly pushing back on any sort of gubmint infetterance.

    bitchkat ,

    Did you mean interfetterance?

    rand_alpha19 ,

    there is a cap at $5000/MwH

    It's MWh (megawatt hours). That's only for wholesale electricity, which is available to retail electrical providers, not consumers. So your utility company can charge you whatever they want, but their price is capped. Funny how that works.

    More info about the cap specifically available here. (PDF)

    remotelove ,
    @remotelove@lemmy.ca avatar

    Ok, that clears up my misunderstanding then. I was thinking that the cap applied across the board. (That does change things a bit, don’t it?)

    Pacattack57 ,

    We have contracts like everyone else. No one pays the day by day rate.

    Zron ,

    Then what’s the point in having a day by day rate?

    TheGalacticVoid ,

    It’s the same reason why the fed controls interest rates. Entities higher up the chain deal with those volatile costs so we don’t have to.

    TexMexBazooka ,

    Because that’s what the electric company is paying, and if it stays high our contracts go up next year

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