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why isn't anyone calling for Trump to drop out.

I get it, Biden is old and that’s a problem, but why doesn’t anyone seem to have a problem with the fact that Trump is almost the same age, has 34 felonies, raped at least 2 women, went to Epstein’s Island 11 times, sexualized his own daughter, stole classified documents, aligned himself with Xi and Putin, and can’t remember common names?

Is all of that really better than being 2½ years older than he is right now?

ogmios ,
@ogmios@sh.itjust.works avatar

Because you keep making salacious claims that can’t be properly sourced instead of focusing on provable arguments.

spujb ,

everyone is kind of giving snarky answers with a couple helpful tidbits in between but the true answer is:

trump is polling well. current polling indicates that trump is doing good enough at what is expected of him, which at the moment is simply running a campaign that will beat the democratic candidate.

people only really start calling for dropping out en masse when polls start to significantly falter because it’s an indication that the candidate is no longer running a competitive campaign.

PhlubbaDubba ,

Yeah but the polls didn’t significantly falter, they’re still statistically tied with only a margin of error shift since the debate.

This isn’t an organic moment of partisan reconsideration. It’s being pushed by the same folks who were already loudly and obnoxiously telling us about how they don’t like Joe and threatening to vote protest or skip voting because, shock of shocks, nobody primaried the sitting president and risk sowing division right before an election where the other candidate is Hitler’s inbred pet mango.

AA5B ,

People are pretty divided and strongly set in their beliefs. Most of the things that come out of Trumps mouth mean I’ll vote for a shrubbery if it is the only other choice

… but I do also think Biden has done a pretty good job and would like to see more of the same, with a hop to the left

PhlubbaDubba ,

I’m decently confident that if we don’t see it with Biden we’ll see it with the candidates who come for 28. I’m crossing my fingers for Whitmer right now, plenty of progressive bonafides, runs a solidly blue government in a swing state quite well, and the Redcaps literally plotted to kidnap her and do a lot of other nasty shit I won’t write out to her so we’re hardly gonna have to worry about her not taking the threat seriously.

lord_ryvan ,

I can’t believe how far down I had to scroll for a genuine answer. Thank you. Have my only upvote in this thread.

lord_ryvan ,

I can’t believe how far down I had to scroll for a genuine answer. Thank you. Have my only upvote in this thread.

iAmTheTot ,

I think you’ll find that basically everyone on the left would like for Trump to step down. But it’s a waste of breath to actually voice it.

revelrous ,

Consolidation of US media. Billionaires will burn the world down rather than cede an inch, and it’s their narratives that get amplified.

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@discuss.online avatar

Perhaps you missed the last almost 4 years where people were doing precisely that. There was this whole thing with Ron Desantis, and Nikki Haley, and the brainworms inside of JFK, Jr., etc. It didn’t work, and his base chose Trump, if not unanimously then close enough to it, and also far back enough in the past for such a call to not be relevant anymore. Plus conservatives are just different kinds of people - for them, power is not bestowed upon someone by We The People, but ripped out of the people’s hands by force of will. Might does make Right after all, in their playbook.

But Dems are not choosing Biden. Also, no primaries are being held. So asking him to drop out is the last hope before holding your nose and voting for him anyway, hoping against hope that just like for Hillary, others do as well (although in that case… well, I’m sure this time will be different. Why am I sure? Bc… shut up, that’s why!:-P /s).

rayyy ,

holding your nose and voting for him anyway

Funny, because Joe Biden’s policies are popular with Democrats AND Republicans. The MSM, one the other hand, seems to believe everyone wants a dictatorship so they are attacking Joe Biden for bullshit reasons. Make no mistake, the right will seize power and end your freedom.

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@discuss.online avatar

The mainstream media is bought by the trillionaires, so I’m mostly ignoring them.

I thought The Atlantic was basically the last one left. Even The Guardian has encroached first into clickbait titles and now several paragraphs at the top of clickbait content even if the latter part of an article can finally get into real stuff. So it is in transition as it finishes off the enshittification process it already began.

But The Atlantic… I hold to a different standard, in my mind, and when they speak, I still listen. Perhaps I shouldn’t - can you point to an example from them that shows that they have jumped the shark too? The Atlantic isn’t in the same class as e.g. the NYT!!?! They are still worthwhile (I thought?)!

So media aside, people - especially young people that don’t have the personal history with political matters - they watched the debate, or saw clips of its worst moments. They see this shit with their own eyes. It’s not just the media doing a hit job, as has been true in the past. This time it’s real.

Asking your President to remain awake during a conversation, especially one prepared for literally weeks to months in advance does not sound like bullshit to me. Rather it sounds like the basic foundation for any job that I’ve ever had personally, and have ever so much as heard of.

Perhaps Biden('s people) should not have agreed to a debate in this format, giving only 2 minutes for each question, that favored Trump’s style of false but pithy statements? Nonetheless, he did agree…

Also I’m not saying he’s senile, though I would like for a real test to be done. In any case, can we agree that it doesn’t matter at this point? Doing the debate in that manner caused a LOT of harm to his campaign. Maybe I’m just not stating it in the right words, but that’s more along the lines of what I mean…

In more detail: we cannot control people. Hillary Clinton failed to earn sufficient votes, and Trump won in 2016. Now, is Biden repeating the same pattern? Vote Blue No Matter Who is an authoritarian dogma - but we have no power to enforce it. People, especially the youth, will do as they please. The only hope is to try to earn it? That’s going to be a LOT more difficult now, than it was prior to the debate…

originalfrozenbanana ,

Because being a fringe lunatic insurrectionist fascist is forgivable. Left or right, everyone either assumes Trump is so bad or so good that he is beyond criticism.

Same as it ever was. No one, left or right, expects the Republicans to change or get better.

aleph , (edited )
@aleph@lemm.ee avatar

Because

  • None of the above legally prevent him from running.
  • Republican voters will still vote for him en masse.

It’s that simple.

conditional_soup ,

I would gladly have Trump drop out. It won’t happen. Trump is running to save his own ass. For my part, I have grave doubts about Biden’s ability to win that have been building for a few months but came sharply into focus during the first minute of that debate.

LadyMeow ,

His base are enthusiastically slobbering on his c**k, and most prominent politicians for the gqp seem to be lining up to holster it when his base are done. Not to mention the supreme crunchwrap court are in love with him too.

KingJalopy ,

You can say cock on the Internet. No one will tell on you.

andrew ,

That’s it, I’m reporting you.

/s just in case

LadyMeow ,

Send me to jail, offsir

mPony ,

COCK POLICE REPORTING FOR DUTY

LadyMeow ,

🫡

LadyMeow ,

True, and i have said all kinds of stuff in the internet but i dont want to too much. :p

adam_y ,
@adam_y@lemmy.world avatar

Someone knows their cock rights.

KingJalopy ,

Not really, I’m just cock sure.

lord_ryvan ,

Well better not get cocky about it, okay?

datavoid ,

I dread the day when every thread on Lemmy defaults to a series of puns.

It does feel inevitable though, like some sort of internet entropy - eventually everything morphs into wordplay.

lord_ryvan ,

Cockserisation 👌👌👌

Jokes aside, I feel like this is also just a human thing or guy thing, a bunch of my guy friends or family members and I would do the same thing IRL

somethingsnappy ,

My cocktail lefts. Just sayin.

Strider ,

Cocky.

lord_ryvan ,

fyi most Lemmy instances do not censor slurs, so unlike YouTube and Xitter you don’t have to worry about that here

fubbernuckin ,

Why did you censor cock?

LadyMeow ,

Seemed like the thing to do. Apparently struck a nerve lol

vividspecter ,

Republican candidates aren’t held to the same standards because Republican voters don’t care (or they actually like it).

Andromxda ,
@Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Republican candidates aren’t held to the same standards because Republican voters are absolute morons

Alteon ,

He gave them $1,600 in stimulus checks. Some of the poorer people think he’ll make things more affordable for people, lower costs, make crypto better, and essentially just rain down money. They have to think of their families future, and apparently they think Trump will do that. They don’t care what he’s done, he’s a means to an end, and if they can wrap an American flag around him, profess him the new Messiah, and ban abortions to do it, they will.

Republicans are either extremely ignorant or they just lack any and all empathy. They get their news from Fox that shields them from the truth, and they live in constant fear of blood-drinking evil liberals, illegal racist/murderer aliens, and that their money is being stolen from them by undesirables that feed off the system.

Their entire world view is a facade to make rich people richer and their ignorance of that makes them expendable pawns. It’d be comical if it wasn’t so tragic…

Zerlyna ,
@Zerlyna@lemmy.world avatar

Don’t forget Kim Jong Un. “Beautiful” letters.

Nemo ,

Because, realistically, he won’t listen.

Biden won’t either, because he’s already proved he can win this race and you don’t retire a winning horse.

conditional_soup ,

I keep seeing this sentiment, and it boggles me. Last season’s winning horse just debuted this season with a huge limp, and the response from some people has been “it’s fine, stop panicking, we’ll win if we just keep betting on it.”

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@discuss.online avatar

Also, his debates last time weren’t… ideal, but he at least remained awake during them!? Anyway, I’m with you: I understand someone wanting him to win, but how on earth can this be considered a done deal already?

There is a time and a place to stop all questions and get to work. But we aren’t there yet!? And being ready to change one’s mind based on the most current set of facts is literally the hallmark of the Age of Enlightenment, as opposed to e.g. the divine right of rulers to continue for as long as they wish to?

Lemminary ,

at least remained awake during them

It’s fine if you want to criticize Biden, but can we stop with the Sleepy Joe bullshit? It’s nothing but Trump’s political slander.

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@discuss.online avatar

I mean did you…

…

…

watch the…

…

…

…

thing, you know the thing, that does the stuff?

Please note, I’m not suggesting to not vote Democrat. Also, the sleepy Joe stuff back then was different than it was here during this debate?

Lemminary ,

Yes, not the whole thing, but I watched enough and I’m not even American. Is there a specific part you’d like to point out?

This is also relevant and worth considering: nbcnews.com/…/biden-quips-almost-fell-asleep-onst…

Also, can you type normally, please? I’m not sure what your formatting is trying to convey but it feels either sarcastic or condescending for no good reason.

conditional_soup ,

I think the part where he finally beat medicare is the best example.

youtu.be/i3eYmc1AkMs?si=RJkeAb7gwN_TJOSG

Lemminary ,

That’s a funny bit of fumbling. Reminds me of Bush’s “You can’t get fooled again” and the other contender’s own brand of hilarious fumbling and ramblings.

conditional_soup ,

The difference is that Biden has markedly declined from previous performances. He spent most of that night stumbling, mumbling, and struggling to speak clearly, none of which is his stutter, because a stutter is a very specific speech impediment. He was downright difficult to understand on average, and flat out unintelligible at worst. Even when he got riled up, like with the losers and suckers remark, it sounded like he was having trouble forming word sounds accurately, like he has dysarthria. Even in carefully curated campaign material, like asking for donations, he sounds out of breath and like he’s struggling to speak clearly.

Lemminary ,

I’d like to see him on his upcoming interview all well and rested and then we can compare.

conditional_soup ,

Sure, I’d welcome Biden changing my mind on this.

I think it’s a little alarming that his last international travel was almost two weeks pre-debate and that left him tired enough to perform badly. And by badly, I mean the worst debate performance I’ve seen ever, and I’ve been watching since Bush/Kerry. I also don’t think it bodes well that he hasn’t yet done any big interviews or press conferences to show that it really was just a fluke, which seems like a fairly easy thing to do if he really is actually fine. I would feel much better about his odds of beating Trump if he could start reliably doing public speaking at a similar quality to what he displayed in 2020, which remains to be seen a whole week later.

ryathal ,

This is the real problem. This election is likely to be close either way, a Biden that can’t make appearances in battleground states before the election is not going to do well.

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@discuss.online avatar

Excellently articulated. Perhaps there’s a simple explanation for all of this - perhaps he’s sick, or if we really want to get conspiratorial, even maliciously poisoned? (I’m trying to convey something that would be outside of his control hence not remotely his fault in any way.)

The thing is, it doesn’t matter. He could have cancelled the debate altogether, but instead he rushed through it. This seems reminiscent of his handling of the withdrawal from Afghanistan, which tbf was 99.9% Trump’s deal, except the handling of it was Biden’s, and revealed some about his personality, to ignore his advisors and substitute his own knowledge for theirs. Which is fine, it’s his prerogative as President to do exactly that, except… he was wrong. The first and basically only job of a leader is to pick good advisors and listen to them, so as to be correct. (Then, if time, train someone else to do likewise.)

This is also reminiscent of Bill Clinton’s handling of his sexual scandals - it happens, but then he went and lied about it to the Supreme Court, which was a whole other thing.

So now, people are - FOR SOME REASON - not quite trusting that what Biden is saying is truthful. Maybe he means well, maybe it really is temporary, but again, none of that is relevant. He needs to reassure people, if not last week’s opportunity then create some new one, that he really does have what it takes to go the distance and be the leader of the United States of America for the next four years.

Fuck, I’m freaking out, bc Trump is going to win.:-( Anyway, thank you for keeping your head about you as the rest of us lose ours - your calm and cogent analyses of things are helpful to read:-).

John_McMurray ,

Three fucking years, Joe being senile was a “conspiracy theory” and then they trot captain Alzheimer’s out

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@discuss.online avatar

Tbf it really did seem a conspiracy theory back when it started. He used to be fairly energetic, despite being old. But, time passes.

The problem now is that unlike conservatives, liberals don’t take as kindly to being lied to, and to say that he’s both too old to speak and also not too old to be President… it just doesn’t sit right.

John_McMurray ,

Case by case basis. Sanders, Trump, etc, not too old yet, Biden too old despite being numerically the same.

Ensign_Crab ,

Particularly when the same wing of the party was utterly vicious about Sanders’ age when he was 75 back in 2016.

HaleHirsute ,

You’re right, it’s worse than being sleepy, it’s dramatic dementia and cognitive decline.

Lemminary ,

Cognitive decline, probably at his age, but dementia? Says which medical professional? lol

Illuminostro ,

Just like Trump. Except that Trump is very, very stupid.

Grebes ,

Trump has 88 really good reasons not to drop out. Without control of the justice system he’s going to be in jail for the rest of his life and republicans have shackled themselves to him.

AndrewZabar ,

I don’t know if you’ve been not paying attention but even if he’s not elected, he will never see the inside of a jail cell. Trump is untouchable. I’m not sure why, most people speculate he has dirt on some very powerful people - really serious dirt on many really powerful people. That’s only speculation, but if you recall during his first campaign he bragged about how much he was loved and worshiped he said he could walk out of Trump tower onto Fifth Avenue, and shoot someone dead in broad daylight and he would never face any consequences whatsoever. And he was right.

Illuminostro ,

No, Putin has dirt on everyone in the Republican leadership. They hacked the RNC’s servers, too. Lindsey Graham changing his opinion 180 after an afternoon playing golf with Trump should tell you everything you need to know. Graham was literally crying on Fox defending Trump. We all know he’s gay, but Putin has to something absolutely terrible on him. Like having a chocolate bar in his mouth.

NeoNachtwaechter ,

you don’t retire a winning horse

REMEMBER: You need that horse for working right AFTER the race.

Nemo ,

You and I need that. Does the DNC?

NeoNachtwaechter ,

No, i do not need any of these clowns.

What is a dnc?

Nemo ,

The Democratic National Committee - the ruling elite of the Democratic Party. I’m saying the people want effective governance but the party just wants power.

Illuminostro ,

The President is a figurehead, their administration do 99% of the work.

Not_mikey ,

This isn’t 2020 though, at this point in 2020 Biden had a 8 point lead on Trump and even then he only won a narrow victory in the electoral college with Pennsylvania, Arizona and Wisconsin, now he’s down by 2 points overall and down even worse in those swing states. Then he was a relative unknown and people were willing to give him a shot against the known evil of trump . Now people have gotten to see him and they do not like what they see, his approval rating is worse then Trump’s was at the depths of the pandemic.

Illuminostro ,

This isn’t 2020 though,

Tell your superiors at the troll farm they need to change the script. Too many of you using the same exact phrasing is giving you away, tovarish.

Not_mikey ,

Where is this reasoning that “Biden should withdraw” is a Russian talking point coming from besides the paranoid delusions of liberals who blame everything bad on Russia. Putin knows even less then us on whether Biden withdrawing would be good or bad for trump.

It’s not even like this is a fringe idea any more, members of the house are calling for him to step down and even pelosi thinks it’s a legitimate question, are they Russian trolls? We need to have a serious discussion on this and not dismiss the other side as a psyop like alex Jones, otherwise we’re gonna let inertia carry us to a loss like in 2016.

Ensign_Crab ,

Where is this reasoning that “Biden should withdraw” is a Russian talking point coming from besides the paranoid delusions of liberals who blame everything bad on Russia.

They don’t blame everything bad on Russia. They blame everything they don’t like on Russia. It’s why they scream that anyone who says Biden should stop supporting genocide is a Russian.

John_McMurray ,

You do when the Kentucky Derby is next week and it’s got a broken leg

FuglyDuck ,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

Biden won’t either, because he’s already proved he can win this race and you don’t retire a winning horse.

this isn’t 2020. it’s 2024, and a different race. Trump has had 4 years to retcon (or rather double down?) on his reputation. (whatever, he’s had four years to shore up his support.). Further, in 2020… the war in ukraine hadn’t started yet, neither had the Israeli genocide in gaza; the Pandemic was still on-going (and trump was fucking up left right and center on that.)

the point being, the circumstances are different and Biden has a lot of baggage he’s carrying- especially lately with Gaza. As they say in stocks: Past performance is not an indicator of future performance.

It’s going to be a battle, and I’m not sure Biden can win.

That said, Trump belongs in jail. (or the grave. I make exceptions for certain things. like being a rapist pedophile traitor.)

In a sane world, that should be enough for a cardboard cut out of Yogi Bear to win. I used to think that Princess Amidala being 14 and the planetary head of state was hilariously unrealistic, yet here we are hoping to elect an asshole that supports genocide because the other guy is a cartoon villain that would happily genocide his own citizens because they didn’t let him do his pedophile-rape thing. It’s the kind of plot Palpatine would appreciate.

fine_sandy_bottom ,

A winning horse?!

It’s hard to imagine how you could pick a horse less likely to win.

Nemo ,

Except, presumably, all the people he beat out for the nomination.

Look, I loved Dave too, but it was fiction.

bjoern_tantau ,
@bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de avatar

Because people have a slight sliver of hope that Biden might listen to them.

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