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How many people actually want fully on-site IT jobs?

I’ve been looking for a new job as a software developer. The huge majority of job listings I see in my area are hybrid or remote. I just had an introductory phone call with Vizio (which didn’t specify the location type in the job listing). The recruiter told me that the job was fully on-site, which I told her was a deal breaker for me.

It makes me wonder how many other people back out after hearing that the job is on-site. And it makes me wonder why this wasn’t specified in the job description. I assume most people only want hybrid or remote jobs these days, right?

Anyways I was just wondering how many of you guys apply for on-site IT jobs? Hybrid is so much better, I don’t know why people would apply for on-site jobs unless they have no other options.

CarbonatedPastaSauce ,

My dad is the only human being I know that likes his on-site IT job, but that’s probably because he’s getting away from the miserable woman he married for a few hours a day.

bitchkat ,

I was in that boat for a bit but it was my mentally ill adult child that I needed a break from.

CarbonatedPastaSauce ,

Different boat. You didn’t choose that. Best wishes!

bitchkat ,

All good!

EnderMB ,

There is one reason I think onsite works, and that’s for relocation.

If you are from the US and you want to move to the UK, how do you intend to move via work if your work is remote?

I love remote work, but I’ve not heard a rebuttal for this other than “don’t let foreigners move here” or “let’s let people move based on their level of education”.

bitchkat ,

It’s entirely possible that people can work remote but still relocate to an area where the company has a presence. For example, they may not be set up to pay taxes in a certain jurisdiction. For example, my company could not hire Canadian residents until we had a legal entity in Canada. Thankfully we bought a cabadieb firm.

EnderMB ,

Why would a company decide to grant you a working visa when you will primarily be remote? Furthermore, why would the government grant you a visa when you could, in theory, work from your own country?

bitchkat ,

As I said, they may not have support to pay or provide benefits in the area where they live. So perhaps you need to move to a different state or country but can still work remote. E.g. Maybe I take a remote job with a company in the UK but I decide to live in Glasgow instead of London.

Bluefruit ,

From what I’ve heard, most people that are for in office work like having the separation between work and home.

That being said, I think most folks want remote work or at least remote hybrid. It just makes more sense especially for me. I live far from my office (140 mile drive roundtrip), and working 3 days a week from home has been a god send.

poo ,
@poo@lemmy.world avatar

I did notice that the only people not opting for WFH/hybrid at my last job were all the married-with-kids types who hated being around their family and used work as an escape. It was really sad to see lol

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@discuss.online avatar

That’s understandable but like… you could go to a coffee shop or literally rent office space nearby to where you live - it doesn’t have to be all one way or the other. Anyway, if they truly do enjoy being surrounded by people then I don’t want to knock their totally valid preferences, just to say that there are other ways.

SzethFriendOfNimi ,

There’s a psychological stress with work that can take some time to slough off.

Some people don’t want to log out of work and be grumpy or distracted during family time.

That being said having a process or system as a habit to denote work/home is a good alternative.

A 10 minute walk, a change of clothes, or some song you play, anything that creates a mental delineation. So the annoyance from that way too long meeting asking why something isn’t done (4 hours a day giving out status updates isn’t helping) doesn’t come out on the family.

BearOfaTime ,

There’s also a huge value to people working in the same space.

Random conversations solve a lot of problems.

And I’m someone that finds being in an office around people constantly to be exhausting. I just recognize the value.

cm0002 ,

There’s also a huge value to people working in the same space.

Random conversations solve a lot of problems.

If only we had decent VR headsets that were comfortable to wear all day I wouldn’t mind replicating that in a “virtual office”

Unfortunately, even Apple wasn’t able to solve the comfortability problem.

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@discuss.online avatar

I can chat with someone for hours on end, but I also like using my own toilet, and having access to a tea, snack, etc.

For me, what blocks having random conversations is having 1-3 hours of status updates daily - it doesn’t leave much leftover to do the work especially when my firm declaration that it was going to take twice as long as someone else estimated (and then sure enough it did, at minimum, and maybe taking 10x) is ignored. That would block conversations regardless?

Anyway, the conversations are the content, but them being present physically is only the medium, so WFH does not need to block them, and if anything can help facilitate them e.g. working one in-between other meetings whereas the time taken to physically walk over would have been prohibitive.

MicrowavedTea ,

You can replicate that remotely. I’ve had days where 2-3 people joined a call to share something and then kept that call in the background for hours, chatting about random things while working.

corsicanguppy ,

Random conversations solve a lot of problems.

Trends indicate no. The odds of that vs the costs of the distractions - because Mike, I swear to god, you keep clicking that pen and I’m gonna find a new home for it - don’t make it a winning choice.

In 2002 we solved this with an open skype call where everyone was muted. Convos were easy to start (alt-space to unmute and start talking), which created some distraction but not like Larry and his goddamned sad cowboy music.

BearOfaTime ,

because Mike, I swear to god, you keep clicking that pen and I’m gonna find a new home for it

Hahahahah, oh man, I hear ya!

Seriously, I’m as anti-social as they come, but I’ve learned the value of people being in the same space. It’s the way we’re wired, and no, calls/video/virtual stuff is no replacement.

And I’ve had a million random conversations between calls/meetings that have solved many issues, or provided opportunity for improving relationships, etc. These conversations just don’t happen when you’re remote - I say this as someone who’s worked hybrid since the 90’s - there’s no replacement for being in the same space. Again, I’m someone that finds being in the office exhausting - I’d rather be remote.

TAG ,
@TAG@lemmy.world avatar

Not wanting to work in a crowded home has nothing to do with disliking your family. Kids are loud. They run around the house. They watch TV with the volume set too high. They have excited calls with their friends. Many home builders skimp on noise insulation for interior walls.

cheddar ,
@cheddar@programming.dev avatar

From my open office experience, it is often not better with colleagues. A lot of noise, distractions, useless conversations. That is not as bad as kids, but this is why I always dreamt to WFH. I will always be grateful to the person who under cooked that bat in 2019.

tburkhol ,

My brain definitely focuses better with environmental cues. I mean, I can work just about anywhere, but if I’m not in the mood, then having the environmental cues displaces alternatives. Subjectively, I feel more productive at work. Never had a really bad commute, so I was never motivated to try to set up a ‘work-only’ space at home, but I’d only do a 70 mile one-way drive for very special occasions.

corsicanguppy ,

most people that are for in office work like having the separation between work and home.

My apartment offers wework-style glass cube space, as well as (totally unused) conference space on the 30th floor. Big conference TV, kitchenette, global supra high-back seating (good-not-amazing) and panoramic river views.

AnalogyAddict ,

I hope to never go back to office. Remote has been a life changer. I have time to keep weeds out of my garden. The flexibility to have workers at my house whenever they are available. The freedom to set up my desk how I like it. Time to eat breakfast. I don’t get headaches every day any more from the lighting. I get to go outside during breaks for some sunshine time. I’m here when the kids come home.

My work is more focused. No more road stress. I may be able to move to a place I can tolerate. No more wearing makeup that is bad for my skin. No more having to pack a lunch. My life is infinitely better without having to commute.

spacemanspiffy ,

I work with a few who prefer the office over work from home. I think they need a way to escape the house/wife/kids and the office is the only quiet place they have to work.

kent_eh ,

I work with a few who prefer the office over work from home.

It does allow for a more clean break between work and non-work mindset.

I find it helps maintain a more healthy work-life balance.

Plus, I work on hardware, so it’s not like I can do that remotely most of the time anyway.

Graphy ,

I enjoy office work more than wfh because I genuinely like the people I work with and I think we riff off each other way better in person

funkless_eck ,

I dont know if I agree with the work life balance.

Shower, groom, dress and commute starting at 6.30am, work 8.30–5.30 and commute to 6.30/7

or work 8.45-5.15ish and maybe spend an extra hour or two coupla times a week?

Huge difference.

CurlyWurlies4All ,
@CurlyWurlies4All@slrpnk.net avatar

My team moved to fully remote a month ago. I’m loving it so far.

Getting to see my little girl throughout my day makes me feel like I’m not missing out on watching her grow up.

RBWells ,

I think I may be the only person on the face of the earth with no preference on this. My commute is immaterial, the office about 2k away, working from home is kind of a drag but I don’t have to get dressed and can keep the household going (which is part of why it’s a drag) online meetings suck even more than in person meetings, otherwise fine to work remotely. So when we were working from home, I was fine with it, then hybrid I thought would be the worst of all, no, it was fine. Now they say come in at least 3 days, I am going to put away the home workstation and just work at the office, reclaim the space at home, that’s fine too. It’s pretty much the same job either way.

Simulation6 ,

I have only ever worked on-site jobs, so I am very used to it. The main plus for me is interacting with my co-workers. You run into the occasional jerk or someone having a bad day, but usually it is a great way to learn new things and gain different perspectives.

Pacattack57 ,

People want to be paid. Period. Anyone who tells you they won’t take a job because it’s not remote is a liar. Either that or they are privately wealthy and can afford to not work until their unicorn job appears.

neomachino ,

When I was looking for a new job a couple years ago I turned down a lot of on-site and hybrid job for the sole reason that they weren’t fully remote. Some of the jobs actually interested me and I would have loved to take at the time. And I can assure you I am far from wealthy.

Working from home I get to see my wife during the day, play with my son whenever I want, make my own lunch in my kitchen, water my garden during the day, work outside if I want to.

The peace of mind that it brings me is worth $400k. That’s the minimum I would take to go into the office no more than 30 minutes away once a week at most.

I know that’s unrealistic but so is making employees go into the office for something they’re fully capable of doing at home.

Pacattack57 ,

You are just a liar bud. If nothing else you are lying to yourself.

If you were out of work and were offered an office position you would take it. The fact that you have a family makes it even more certain.

Don’t misunderstand my comment. I never said you have to like the job or even keep it. If you were out of work you would accept the position until you found a better offer. You don’t stay jobless when you have no money.

Obviously when you have a job you would pass on a job that doesn’t meet your expectations, that’s common sense. My comment was meant more towards being on the hunt while unemployed. Even still if the money was right I guarantee you would take an office job. Your wife wouldn’t let you turn it down. Money talks and people that want to pretend they are above it are lying to themselves.

neomachino ,

If I wan unemployed and had no savings and no other job offers, of course I would take whatever job I could get. I hear the market is shit right now but still, it was never that hard to find a remote job if you’re qualified at least as a software dev.

Also my wife would let me turn down whatever job if it didn’t feel right as long as we’re covered. I turned down a job for ~60% more pay that would’ve required 2-3 days in the office about 40 minutes away for my current job that’s fully remote and let’s me make my own hours. I spent a couple nights working on my couch watching movies and working last week so I could take Friday off with full pay and go to a water park.

You cannot replace that freedom and extra time.

Although there are circumstances that could make me consider going into an office, they would have to be dier.

HatchetHaro ,
@HatchetHaro@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

lol ok boomer

jaschen ,

Web marketer here. If it says hybrid or on site, it’s an automatic no for me. Nobody is taking me away from watching my son grow up.

TheButtonJustSpins ,

I’ve been remote for over a decade; not going to stop now.

Blizzard ,

Not even for a “Fruity Tuesday”???

Crackhappy ,
@Crackhappy@lemmy.world avatar

Same here. There is no reason to make me far less productive other than I’m pretty and people want to gaze at me adoringly in an office setting. It’s a weird fetish I guess, but I’ve seen weirder.

marx2k ,

Shit i just realized I’ve been doing remote for about 7 years now.

Also not going to stop. No reason to especially since my team is spread across the states.

KoboldCoterie ,
@KoboldCoterie@pawb.social avatar

I’d consider one, but it’d have to pay considerably more. Like, 50% or more above what I’d otherwise expect for a fully remote position, and it would have to be an easy commute.

In most cases it’s adding 20-30% to the length of the work day when the commute is included, plus costs of transportation itself. Plus the general inconvenience and the fact that it’s almost always going to mean a more toxic culture. But if the pay and benefits were absolutely fantastic, I’d consider it, at least short-term.

knobbysideup ,
@knobbysideup@sh.itjust.works avatar

And the commute is considered working hours. An hour commute means I’m in the office 9-3. With a lunch break.

corsicanguppy ,

the commute is considered working hours.

I think in Germany that’s part of the labour code: the clock runs the entirety of the time you’ve left the house on their instruction.

Danquebec ,

Doesn’t that encourage urban sprawl?

thirteene ,

Another user was demanding 4x salary for in office, I would consider a 20% pay bump per in office day a reasonable request that likely results in a remote contract. It’s essentially saying it will cost you double to make me come in for that day.

CaptPretentious ,

My job I’m classified as remote. And I like it that way. Recently they have decided that a bunch of people even if remote will now have to come on site at least hybrid. For “collaboration”. I even noted that in my employment contract I had in there that I was to work from home, to which HR said that they really don’t care.

My last year-end review was stellar. Top marks, praises from multiple departments, even got a promotion.

But I happen to live to close to a location, so there’s ‘simply nothing that can be done’. So I’ve already started looking for different work.

Persen ,

I’m planning to have an on-site job, so I can actually meet some new people.

kandoh ,

Maybe you should meet yourself first

Weirdfish ,

The office is 3 day a week onsite, w Mon and Fri remote.

I have to be on site Tue - Thur to support the users.

I go in most Mon and Fri because it’s the only time I know I have physical access to the systems.

My support work is largely “remote”, in that I can manage my systems 99% of the time better from my office than in the room, and I really like my setup.

Aside from physically rebooting hardware that’s too frozen to reboot remotely, or replacing defective hardware, I can work 100% from anywhere I have internet.

Thing is, I love the company I work for, the end users and various IT and facilities staff that support my work are all great people.

The only close friends I have all moved far away decades ago, so the “water cooler” is the only real social interaction I get.

I do spend a ridiculous amount to live 15 minutes from the office so the commute isn’t a concern.

corsicanguppy ,

I have to be on site Tue - Thur to support the users.

My current day-job went from 100% get-in-that-chair-and-straighten-that-tie to 100% get-out-now on CoViD day 1. It was a rapid adjustment, to say the least; and the shit managers who needed to stare at asses all day to feel better just … left. They’ve since sold most of the office space but for some meeting space, 2 hotel spaces for those who prefer it, and one rotating helldesk dude to receive Fedex.

Supporting users? Onsite? Nope. It’s 100% remote service, and for the rare cases where it needs physical interaction with a component, the user and gear comes to the office and the onsite helldesk stuckee works it over. For those of us far-remote (regs are anywhere in the country, so long as the internet’s clean) we cross-ship for cheap or bring it to one of a very few deputized-for-secret-squirrel shops. I have a docking port-replicator I’m waiting on a shipper label for, for instance.

TL;DR - you don’t need to be onsite to support remote workers. That whole “bodies in the same room” thing is gone.

geekworking ,

It really depends on where the office is in relation to your home.

Before covid and going WFH, the office was only 5 miles away on roads with no traffic. I would go back to this, no problem. Just enough to keep you on a schedule and get out of the house.

The biggest benefit of an office is that when you leave, you are gone until tomorrow.

When everyone is WFH, you never completely leave the office. I know boundaries, but in many cases, the lines can get a bit fuzzy.

GOTFrog ,

When Im done with workmy work vomputer is powered off, if they want me at the office I told my manager I expect a 20K raise and free parking.

corsicanguppy ,

my work [computer] is powered off[;]

That’s the way. KVM switch if you multi-use the space. Mine has USB for sound so it’s the same sound setup.

corsicanguppy ,

the office was only 5 miles away […] enough to keep you on a schedule and get out of the house.

The new building where I live has wework spaces. I can rent on 5 and live on 20 and it’s an elevator ride if I want to work in the glass cube farm or open petri dish. But nooooo, we got this place for the AC and extra bedroom to write off and my cat’s sleeping on the desk as we speak like a sloppy floofy hobo so … nooooo.

stinerman ,
@stinerman@midwest.social avatar

We had an IT person quit this year because we transitioned to fully remote after they closed down the office in December 2020. He couldn’t handle working from home.

downpunxx ,

There's a lot of "play" in tasks accomplished when working in an office, not so much when companies have spy software gauging every minute one spend on their corporate owned pc's remotely, some find even less freedom when under that type of 9 hr scrutiny day in day out

corsicanguppy ,

when companies have spy software gauging every minute

It’s not WHY people quit, but it’s why they don’t stay.

Modva ,

Some people probably do not have home lives that they enjoy, I can imagine that.

XeroxCool ,

It’s not necessarily that they dislike the people, either. It could be an issue if the other people/animals at home aren’t cooperative with your need to work, despite being lovely in normal home situations. It could be a total lack of cooperative workspace - no desk space, too cluttered, areas already dedicated to other home tasks, noisy neighbors, easy distractions, etc. And then some people are just wholly impatient, who can’t identify what they need to make their home space more like their office space. Personally, I played a bunch of video games in 2020. I felt I performed better overall because blocking off an hour of game campaign kept me off my phone most of the day. Now I sit in an office again, scrolling here for more than an hour each day.

But yes, I had a number of coworkers in 2020 that came back as soon as they could in order to get away from their families again. Work was their herculean daily task that gave them an excuse to be away from families and be too tired to engage with them after work. The kind that always joked “gonna go home, hit the wife, and fuck the dog”

It’s not always outright negativity, but it can be.

marcos ,

I have plenty of coworkers that are thrilled when we have an in-office event. And some that choose to go there to work every day.

I can’t understand them, but well, it makes them happy.

LwL ,

Personally I just like my colleagues so it’s fun to be around them for the most part, and there are better lunch options around the office in my case (plus I’d never bother going somewhere when I’m home anyway). It being easier to just quickly ask a question is nice too. Also gets me actually out of the house and cycling for ~40 minutes a day. I also get way more done at work because working at the same pc I spend 90% of my free time at is not great at motivating my brain to do work.

Still, if I didn’t have the option to just stay home when I don’t feel like going to the office/am waiting for a package or something, I’d find that very annoying.

corsicanguppy ,

thrilled when we have an in-office event. And some [who] choose to go there

We call these ‘extroverts.’ We don’t understand them, but we can point them out.

foggy ,

My ask is 4x salary for in office.

It’s usually met with “Well, that’s not going to happen…”

To which I reply “I know, right?”

downpunxx ,

"how bout that" lol

marcos ,

Instead, the people offering the largest salaries are mostly remote-only.

People that value your work value your work, I guess.

corsicanguppy ,

How to win against the dead-sea effect, I guess.

corsicanguppy , (edited )

My ask is

You mean ‘request’, right? You need to leave the used-car-salesbro jargon at the lot, man.

But I run a surcharge as well, and it’s prohibitive for some. It’s about 40% more for the first day in the office, and 20% more for each day-per-week after that, to 120% surcharge at most. I put the interview answers in the spreadsheet, and when they ask about Salary I tell them how it’s based on the per-person rent of a 2-bedroom condo closest to the work location and a percentage surcharge or rebate based on the job attributes. Either that’s too offbeat or detailed for them, and they sometimes get sad for one or both of those reasons.

Software update policy, dress code (there’s a difference between ‘casual’ and ‘business casual’), a tax for Teams or Office or Outlook, mandatory standby, forced field work, 9x9 schedule, etc. I don’t have a tax for ‘distance from nearest commuter train station’ but it’s coming.

Absolute.com (security not vodka) was down to $85k, though, as it was so awesome. But ohhh, if MDA or the BoC had bit, it would’ve been nearly $500k as they had SO many problems.

foggy , (edited )

No, I mean “my ask.”

Not jargon. Recognized by the Oxford advanced learner’s dictionary. Perhaps your understanding of English is not “advanced”.

It is what I am asking. It is my ask.

What an absurdly pointless hair to attempt to split. It’d be one thing if you were being inquisitive, but you’re out here just confidently incorrecting people lmao.

Stay in school, kiddo.

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