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China is using the world's largest known online disinformation operation to harass Americans, a CNN review finds

The Chinese government has built up the world’s largest known online disinformation operation and is using it to harass US residents, politicians, and businesses—at times threatening its targets with violence, a CNN review of court documents and public disclosures by social media companies has found.

The onslaught of attacks – often of a vile and deeply personal nature – is part of a well-organized, increasingly brazen Chinese government intimidation campaign targeting people in the United States, documents show.

The US State Department says the tactics are part of a broader multi-billion-dollar effort to shape the world’s information environment and silence critics of Beijing that has expanded under President Xi Jinping. On Wednesday, President Biden is due to meet Xi at a summit in San Francisco.

Victims face a barrage of tens of thousands of social media posts that call them traitors, dogs, and racist and homophobic slurs. They say it’s all part of an effort to drive them into a state of constant fear and paranoia.

rusticus ,

Freedom of speech should not extend to foreign adversaries. Give me the ability to geoblock social media just like I can with my router at home. Accurately label any domestic sources that are relaying this disinformation as well so I can block them too.

Ibex0 ,

Tell Elon that. Or sign up for CounterSocial, they have a few countries blocked.

CosmicCleric ,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

Freedom of speech should not extend to foreign adversaries.

Hot take incoming…

Actually, I would argue the opposite.

Now that we have global access to each other, we should be speaking to each other, and finding common ground. We all share the same planet.

And when speaking to adversaries, we should consider what they’re saying for truthfulness or if it’s just an attack, before deciding to ignore/block it or not.

seejur ,

This is the same problem with being tolerant with intolerants. While ideologically might make sense, it’s a losing battle that favors bad faith actors.

CosmicCleric ,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

While ideologically might make sense, it’s a losing battle that favors bad faith actors.

That’s an assumption. You “trust but verify” (as a famous former president said), and if they’re not acting in good faith, then you move on from talking to other actions.

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

Not the same problem at all. Intolerance is straight-up hate with no logical basis and it calls for harmful actions against groups of people. Meanwhile there is a lot of room for interpretation and disagreement in global politics. What we’re seeing here is a fight between global powers to control the narrative, and it’s not just China doing it either.

Blue_Morpho ,

A foreign adversary isn’t a uninformed troll engaging in debate. Their job is to attack a target. Supporting their right to attack is like supporting telemarketer scammers right to robocall everyone. You aren’t going to debate them out of scamming. They have a job to do.

CosmicCleric ,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

A foreign adversary isn’t a uninformed troll engaging in debate.

How do you know? It could be his/her day off.

They have a job to do.

A “foreign adversary” has many jobs, not all of them is to shape a narrative on the Internet.

Having said that, my use of the term was more generic in nature, as a country that has opposing motives/goals than we do (Iran, etc.).

We’re dancing close enough to the Armageddon line at this point as it is, its ok to pull back a bit and try peaceful means to resolve issues, instead of just ‘pushing the button’. Generally speaking, the more we talk, the less we fight.

Serinus ,

Yes, but it makes a difference when that conversation is effectively controlled by whoever has the most bots and/or money. Especially when they’re using tactics like spam and just drowning out the conversation.

I mean, you’ve seen Hexbear respond to things.

CosmicCleric , (edited )
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, but it makes a difference when that conversation is effectively controlled by whoever has the most bots and/or money. Especially when they’re using tactics like spam and just drowning out the conversation.

Very true, but that’s not the point being discussed, this is …

A foreign adversary isn’t a uninformed troll engaging in debate. Their job is to attack a target.

Using misinformation on the Internet is a generic response to shape a false narrative, and not to attack a specific target (though that can be a side effect result).

And also, an adversary will use the Internet as you described, where the OP was (effectively) saying that they don’t use comments on forums on the Internet at all, but instead do physical attacks only.

Blue_Morpho ,

You are ignoring the premise that these are identified foreign adversaries who are not looking for debate. There is no one to debate because the harassment if from fake accounts.

The targets are being doxed, dogpiled, and “told to kill themselves”.

CosmicCleric , (edited )
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

these are identified foreign adversaries who are not looking for debate.

You are making an assumption (the italicized part).

Blue_Morpho ,

It’s not an assumption. It is the basis of the article! Or do you actually support death threats?

CosmicCleric ,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

Or do you actually support death threats?

Ah damn it! You’ve discovered my nefarious plan! Curses!

/s

Blue_Morpho ,

The article was about an identified Chinese government department that was sending death threats to targeted individuals.

But you keep saying “let them talk.”

CosmicCleric , (edited )
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

The article was about an identified Chinese government department that was sending death threats to targeted individuals.

But you keep saying “let them talk.”

I was replying to comments (including your own), and not the article specifically.

Blue_Morpho ,

The original comment and I said “foreign adversaries” in reference to the article and I specifically distinguished them from normal uniformed trolls that you could debate. Yet you continued to defend the foreign adversaries. I have to assume you didn’t read the article about what the foreign adversaries were actually doing.

CosmicCleric ,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

Yet you continued to defend the foreign adversaries.

You’re misunderstanding what I’m saying, if you think that.

All I’m stating is that foreign adversaries have multiple roles and multiple jobs they do, not just the one thing you are mentioning.

That’s the whole point of my conversation with you, the point out that a foreign adversary can do more than just one single thing.

Blue_Morpho ,

If a foreign adversary is engaging in normal debate then they are not a foreign adversary. You replied to someone concerned about bots sending death threats with “we should talk to them.”

You have been continuously dishonest by attempting to reframe a foreign adversary issuing death threats from thousands of bot controlled alt accounts to a regular person. Yes you can talk to a regular person. That’s not the foreign adversary that you replied to originally. Your semantic games to attempt to wiggle out of supporting death threats are ridiculous.

So if you happened to deal with the person outside of their job as a foreign adversary and they were using their political power to issue death threats, is free debate still ok? Is it fine for someone in power to call on their followers to attack you because free speech should never be impinged?

Pretzilla ,

Geoblocking only works when they don’t VPN, Tor, or hack and remotely control grandma’s domestic computer, including her FB account.

Keep trying, though. We need to figure something out.

In 2016 a friend was attacking another of my friends on FB, and the ‘attacker’ had no idea it was happening.

Presumably it was GRU at work, based on the nature of the attack.

So that’s at least one vector that FB and NSA, etc., need to address for starters.

Marleyinoc ,

deleted_by_moderator

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  • vsh ,
    @vsh@lemm.ee avatar

    Only bomb? Where can I donate my money for the nukes?

    Du3K ,

    A bunch of actual people are keyboard warriors, trolls and bigots online?

    No, that makes too much sense, everyone being mean online to Americans is a Chinese bot.

    SchizoDenji ,

    >Lemmy.ml account

    >Excusing China.

    intensely_human ,

    I can’t prove it, but my hunch is a lot of the obnoxious people I argue with online, who seem unable to see reason or resist devolving to insults and twisting my words, are actually foreign operatives tasked with depleting American morale

    nexusband ,
    @nexusband@lemmy.world avatar

    Western Moral. I’ve got the same hunch here in Europe.

    ExLisper ,

    Weird, my sensation is that everyone online agrees with me and thinks I’m very smart and overall a great guy.

    Dkarma ,

    Most delusional typical conservative.

    ExLisper ,

    Thank you.

    You see? Another fan.

    MonkeMischief ,

    I dunno if I’d agree with you on everything, but in your own way I bet you’re a great guy overall. <3

    Lamb ,

    linux

    You’re so sexy, daddy.

    sugar_in_your_tea ,

    IDK, I think there are a lot of pretentious idiots who refuse to engage in good faith discussions without any direct ties to any foreign governments. People adamantly hold on to all kinds of stupid opinions and argue fervently for them.

    So it’s hard to tell who the foreign operatives are if regular people are willing to spread disinformation without any kind of compensation.

    lolcatnip ,

    True, but the people funding disinformation operations believe they’re making a difference, and anti-disinformation operations like Bellingcat agree with them.

    I think a better way to view is that malicious actors have managed to weaponize the “pretentious idiots” you referred to, making them an integral part of their propaganda strategy. They’re useful idiots working for foreign governments without even knowing it, and the way they’re manipulated and amplifying deliberate propaganda makes them far more influential than they would be if they were just spewing their own personal idiocy.

    sugar_in_your_tea ,

    That’s fair. My point is that the person you’re talking to is unlikely to be a foreign operative, so calling them on their BS (if you do it well) could have enough of a ripple effect to get others to ignore them.

    It’s a huge pain, and it’s not something anyone will ever win, but I think it’s important. It’s a lot easier to neutralize an idiot than a professional.

    Cannacheques ,

    I prefer to add a dose of spicey humour or sweet idiocy to my conspiracies to keep the real spies off my tail

    MonkeMischief ,

    That’s where the psy-op is though. So much of our communication even in our local communities is done online anymore.

    So just putting that uncertainty in your head of “I bet a large percentage of people we interact with are just Pooh-bear sock puppets” might be enough subtle false-flagging to heavily polarize entire societies, when we remember China excels at taking bad things and applying them “at scale.”

    At a time when we’re deprived of and seeking community and social bonds, it’s isolating, it’s depressing, and it’s doing a ton of potential damage.

    Cannacheques ,

    Agreed. Assuming bad things is a great slope into playing devil’s advocate

    Socsa ,

    I honestly can’t imagine any other reason why internet leftists would defend an autocratic capitalist nation so vehemently, while also putting so much effort into excluding European social democracy from leftist spaces.

    StalinsSpoon ,

    Certainly social democracy would be an improvement for the US people over what the US currently has.

    Quick question, though, Wikipedia gives this definition of a communist state:

    A communist state is a form of government that combines state leadership of a communist party, Marxist–Leninist political philosophy and an official commitment to construct a communist society.

    How does this not apply to China? It sure makes sense to me that a communist forum would support a communist state…

    vaultdweller013 ,

    The problem with that is the fact its a descriptor. Basically ever so called communist state since the Soviet Union has in some way been influenced by so called “Marxist-Leninism” due to soviet and now chinese influence. The thing there is a shit-ton of leftists who see MLs as nothing more than fascists with a red paint job, so will thusly argue that china isnt communist.

    Plus you could have a communist society which actively lynches MLs which would actively invalidate that qoute you put up.

    Its a bad definition, itd be like making a definition for republics based solely on the the Commonwealth of England.

    StalinsSpoon ,

    Fair, I’m not saying it’s a definition. This is Wikipedia we’re talking about. My point was more that a “communist state” (although the term is misleading) is really in active usage referring to a country with MLs in power that are working for the benefit of their citizens to achieve communism. That’s not an exact definition either, but it should convey the point well enough in terms of currently existing countries.

    barsoap ,

    Nono tankies aren’t Chinese operators, they’re CIA, tasked to discredit the left. That’s important because they’d be proud of the former but are enraged by the latter.

    StalinsSpoon ,

    tasked to discredit the left

    Ah, yes, of course, the classic strategy of discrediting the left by using the viewpoints of the definitely not left wing movement of … checks notes communism?

    barsoap ,

    The strategy of equating a classless, stateless, and moneyless society with brutal, authoritarian, oligarchy-run, very much statist, state capitalism. Just paint all means of oppression red and it’s going to be fine, amirite?

    StalinsSpoon ,

    Marxist-Leninists do not argue that when you have a communist revolution that you’ll just magically end up with communism. Look into the “dictatorship of the proletariat.”

    Just paint all means of oppression red and it’s going to be fine, amirite?

    No, of course not. China has a strategy of democratic centralism, which actually seems to be a quite effective implementation of a democracy. Unlike in countries like the US, Chinese citizens are quite satisfied with their government.

    barsoap ,

    democratic centralism, which actually seems to be a quite effective implementation of a democracy.

    Read your fucking Lenin. Democratic centralism is an organisational principle for parties, not for societies. Also it doesn’t work as the enforced unity (“thou shalt not question shit that has been voted on”) allows authoritarianism to take root, especially considering that party officials were never freely elected, but from lists drawn up by guess who those already in power.

    It’s always funny, Tankies thinking other leftists don’t know anything about the mechanics of ML parties and their state-level experiments. We do. We understand it. We know where it leads. That’s why we don’t want that shit because to communism it leads not. Granted Cuba is on a good path right now but, well, they’ve left a lot of that old ML stuff behind them.


    As to China. Fucking China. China doesn’t even have public healthcare. It has billionaires. It’s not even state capitalism it’s straight-up authoritarian capitalism. Singapore but in corrupt, without rule of law, and with polling that you can’t trust because people are both afraid of speaking their mind, as well as isolated from the world.

    Cannacheques ,

    Nah, people got too much dogma up their arse these days anyways

    not_that_guy05 , (edited )

    Can’t we just let Japan and Britain take their colonies back? Ancestry or whatever the fuck china it’s claiming with parts of the ocean and Taiwan, should be used against them equally.

    trashgirlfriend ,

    I know this is not a serious reply but jeez that’s fucked up

    trackcharlie ,

    I think the world needs 4k footage of something like that to get people to stop fucking around and hold their representatives and governments accountable. Majority of deaths in UA and Palestine are at the hands of american made weaponry.

    Probably the cia again.

    not_that_guy05 ,

    The bait didn’t work unfortunately. I use to say the same in Reddit and they would be coming out of the shadows. I guess they aren’t here as much as they were on Reddit.

    But I always did enjoy the gymnastics they would do.

    IvanOverdrive ,

    Because they did such an exceptional job last time

    not_that_guy05 ,

    No one said they did an exceptional job. Just saying their heritage BS against them. That’s all, but the bait didn’t work this time as it use to in Reddit. Must not be that many on Lemmy.world.

    VantaBrandon ,

    West Taiwan you mean?

    Du3K ,

    Free Puerto Rico

    Lemminary ,

    Make it an official state

    RichCaffeineFlavor ,

    How about you ask them what they want instead of using them as pawns because you think you’ll get two senators?

    Lemminary ,

    I won’t get any senators because I’m not even in the US. I just wanted to be a contrarian to the guy above who is clearly just trying to be inflammatory 🤡

    RichCaffeineFlavor ,

    You must be a special kind of trash to think ‘free puerto rico’ is “just trying to be inflammatory”

    Lemminary ,

    Takes a more special kind of trash to know trash. You can kindly fuck off now and take your shit opinions with you.

    RichCaffeineFlavor ,

    No it doesn’t. What a stupid thing to say.

    Lemminary ,

    Likewise, what a stupid back and forth you’ve dragged us down to. Absolutely mindless.

    RichCaffeineFlavor ,

    You have nothing to say but nonsense about how an average person can’t identify trash and you want to high horse me about the level of discourse.

    Lemminary , (edited )

    It’s a common saying ya uncultured dope. And yes, you have dragged this down to shitting on others and name-calling because you can’t realize that what I said originally was not serious but you gotta make it into some stupid online cat fight one to rub one out. Good job, you really contribute something to Lemmy and make this place better. Pat yourself on the back and wipe down your keyboard. I hope you’re satisfied.

    RichCaffeineFlavor ,

    “I come from a whole culture of idiots” is all I hear

    Lemminary , (edited )

    Yeah, I mean you’re the stupid uncultured expert. What do I know if it’s your your people I learned it from. Lol

    USSEthernet , (edited )

    Fuck the CCP, fuck any Chinese citizen participating in this, fuck your mudda, fuck your whole ancesta, like a someboody fuck you bic, Taiwan numba wun

    Kandorr ,

    Been a long time but I can still hear total ownage’s voice

    MonkeMischief ,

    “Dishonor on your cow!”

    hark ,
    @hark@lemmy.world avatar

    Note the devolving into casual racism with the mocking accent.

    Quadhammer ,

    Found the astroturfer for west Taiwan

    hark ,
    @hark@lemmy.world avatar

    You say, as you write the most derivative astroturfer post including “found the” and “west Taiwan” like a stupid parrot. Polly want a cracker?

    Cannacheques ,

    Yes I also read this in a funny accent

    GBU_28 ,

    Hit em with that “Taiwan number 1” to send em back to the shadow realm

    MaxVoltage ,
    @MaxVoltage@lemmy.world avatar

    In Chinese that’s just means china #1

    Duamerthrax ,
    GBU_28 ,

    Japan number 2!

    Dkarma ,

    You spelled west Taiwanese wrong.

    DigitalTraveler42 ,

    Start sending them vids of our hero, Tank man.

    Pat_Riot ,
    @Pat_Riot@lemmy.today avatar

    It’s called tik tok isn’t it?

    Cqrd ,

    They’re all over, here it’s called hexbear.

    guacupado ,

    That and MAGA.

    MrSqueezles ,

    Tik-Tok’s only problem is capitalism. /s

    I’d bet I’m not the first person to write that sentence on Lemmy, Hexbear and elsewhere. The problem is right here and everywhere.

    Scubus ,

    Mmm i feel so harassed

    paddirn ,

    Victims face a barrage of tens of thousands of social media posts that call them traitors, dogs, and racist and homophobic slurs. They say it’s all part of an effort to drive them into a state of constant fear and paranoia.

    I don’t think I’ve heard/read somebody getting called a “dog” much before (unless they’re referring to the other name somebody might use “b****”), isn’t that more a foreign and/or rural insult? I don’t remember ever getting hit with any of these myself, so maybe it stings more in that context, but that list of insults is almost comical and reads like words somebody would say that didn’t speak English as their primary language.

    AWistfulNihilist ,

    The Chinese spam machine was operating at the same time as the Russian system back in 2016, it was hilariously ineffective because apparently the sensibilities are so different. Memes didn’t land, insults are odd sounding.

    What I found really interesting in this article is they’ve changed or adjusted, or maybe just made more visible the effective part of this campaign. Targeting Chinese ex-pats, or Chinese abroad, even ethnically Chinese people who are first or second generation citizens of Western countries.

    It’s a way to reach out and maintain influence through fear, nowhere is safe sort of thing.

    WashedOver ,
    @WashedOver@lemmy.ca avatar

    This is an issue that has come up in national news recently for Canada too. The harassment has been targeting those with Chinese backgrounds that have been involved in an infrastructure or politics. There’s been a controversy as CSIS did not disclose this threat initially, even to those targeted.

    It will be interesting to see if Biden will be able to get the US and Chinese military to perform joint exercises again with the upcoming visit. The Chinese pulled out of them in protest to Pelusi’s visit to Taiwan last year.

    August27th ,

    This finally explains the purpose of TikTok as a spy platform to me. What better way to get deep research into the sensibilities of your targets.

    SCB ,

    China knows all about my taste in thicc goth women

    BetaBlake ,

    Pub G

    TropicalDingdong ,

    Weird way to say tiktok sucks but ok.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    The article hypothesizes a network of bot accounts that spam targets across social media with invective. So its got nothing to do with TikTok (a company run out of Hong Kong and Singapore, with an American subnet that’s physically cut off from its Chinese-mainland counterpart). Even then, if you look at the actual details of the article…

    When trolls disrupted an anti-communism Zoom event organized by New York-based activist Chen Pokong in January 2021, he had little doubt who was responsible. The trolls mocked participants and threatened that one victim would “die miserably.” Their conduct reminded Chen of repression by the government of China, where he spent nearly five years in prison for pro-democracy work.

    He’s a major contributor to US propaganda networks across the South Pacific who attracted a bunch of harassing call-ins during a Zoom meeting. He then attempted to tie the calls back to a wave of FBI arrests of Chinese residents, accused of subversive activities aimed at American institutions.

    There’s a certain irony in this story, because Chen Pokong himself spent two years in prison for championing anti-CCP protests in Guangzhou, following the Tienanmen protests in '89. So a guy who was once a passionate advocate for dissident expression and protest as an economics professor at Sun Yat-sen University is now a professor at Columbia University participating in mass arrests and imprisonments of US residents for dissident expression and protest.

    Duamerthrax ,

    American subnet that’s physically cut off from its Chinese-mainland counterpart

    You believe that?

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    The Executive Branch, by way of the NSA, appears to believe it per the terms of Bytedance’s operations in the states.

    Zehzin ,
    @Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

    Anyone know if harassing US politicians and businesses is a paid gig?

    Travalanche ,
    @Travalanche@lemmy.world avatar

    And here we’ve all been doing it for free all along!

    Zehzin ,
    @Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

    Never put a price in doing what you love.

    BrandonMatrick ,

    But if you end up falling in love with whatever it is you’re good at… You’d better hire an accountant.

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    If you are good at something, never do it for free.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Yes, but it’s Chinese pay, so we’re talking 30 cents an hour.

    Zehzin ,
    @Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

    You joke but Chinese minimum wage is higher than my country’s 💀

    EDIT: according to Google it actually varies by province so it can be lower or higher but it’s right at the edge

    Bartsbigbugbag ,

    Can I live in China so I can buy a whole meal for 15 cents? Right now I’m more than double the min wage in my state and a McDonald’s meal costs about half an hour of time, so I’d still be making about the same in terms of what I could buy.

    WindyRebel ,

    Have you not heard about lobbying?

    brihuang95 ,
    @brihuang95@sopuli.xyz avatar

    I mean, just look at the comments section on X or Instagram and you’ll see this playing out in real time.

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