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China is using the world's largest known online disinformation operation to harass Americans, a CNN review finds

The Chinese government has built up the world’s largest known online disinformation operation and is using it to harass US residents, politicians, and businesses—at times threatening its targets with violence, a CNN review of court documents and public disclosures by social media companies has found.

The onslaught of attacks – often of a vile and deeply personal nature – is part of a well-organized, increasingly brazen Chinese government intimidation campaign targeting people in the United States, documents show.

The US State Department says the tactics are part of a broader multi-billion-dollar effort to shape the world’s information environment and silence critics of Beijing that has expanded under President Xi Jinping. On Wednesday, President Biden is due to meet Xi at a summit in San Francisco.

Victims face a barrage of tens of thousands of social media posts that call them traitors, dogs, and racist and homophobic slurs. They say it’s all part of an effort to drive them into a state of constant fear and paranoia.

Cannacheques ,

The tall end of this entire article is the obtuse question of how much money is really in the game and how much is the service really worth in terms of providing real value?

How much do these disinformation campaign people get, who are they and how do they operate their systems? Let’s imagine that they’re paying small groups of guys to carry four phones and to search for a topic online on Reddit or Facebook and post n number of comments on the thread every time they get the opportunity to from each of the four phones, with another four accounts per phone, then using a script to monitor every account.

All that an adversary hacker would need is a hunter bot to detect the phones all by geolocation, microphone to see how many people are there, then block the phones. The reality is that even if you had multiple bots hacking someone’s phones to do the job, the real value provided simply cannot outweigh the investment costs in the long run. Disinformation and propaganda as a weapon is more blurry in outcomes than simply building a bridge. Hell even sex work arguably works better for most than to spam their newsfeed

CosmicCleric ,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

From the article…

But Linvill of Clemson University argues that the network uses a unique strategy of “flooding” conversations with so many comments that posts from genuine users receive less attention.

“They are operating thousands of accounts at a time on a given platform, often to drown out conversations, just with sheer volume of messaging,” Linvill said. “When we think of disinformation, we often think of pushing ideas on users and making ideas more salient, whereas what China is doing is the opposite. They are trying to remove conversations from social media.”

This is what’s always concerned me, more than anything else.

If you can’t shape the narrative, you might as well destroy the environment any other narrative that would come from it. An anti-control, basically.

As an analogy, a band at a party that plays it’s music so loud that no one can hear each other to be able to talk to each other.

If we don’t get these bots/shills under control then meaningful conversation will never happen again in any large scale, and any chance for peace at a species level goes with it.

The center will not hold.

shirro , (edited )

Obviously a lot of state actors are involved in forms of information warfare including China and they certainly have the resources to be very effective in that area.

You follow the money and a lot of the time it is going to end up the same place as a disproportionate amount of the world’s capital which is in the USA and the west in general. The amount of damage the fossil fuel industry has done to the world is immeasurable and makes China insignificant by comparison. They funded anyone who would take their side and supported many forms of extremism in the process, all to prolong the value of their investments at the cost of leaving a horrendous legacy for future generations.

I am concerned about China’s massive military expansion and their impact on regional stability, but dealing with that is on a whole different level of concern to some of the other influences on our media and politics.

Obligatory fuck the CCP, but also they aren’t going anywhere unless the Chinese population fights for democracy and we aren’t setting a great example for them while we refuse to participate in and improve the democracy we have.

ThatFembyWho ,

Yeah, the Chinese and Russians on one side…

and “our” own government on the other.

Victims face a barrage of tens of thousands of social media posts that call them traitors, dogs, and racist and homophobic slurs

What’s the difference between that and the average unhinged MAGA republican? Hell Trump himself could be behind half of those.

Americans don’t need enemies with “friends” like them.

crackajack ,

I’ve no love for the CCP, but how do we know CIA or other Western psyops aren’t involved on this too? We’re going back to the Cold war again.

BlackSkinnedJew ,

What about the NWO CIA mindcontrol projects? MK-Ultra and Stargate? It have years working all over the world but American elite don’t wanna talk about it…

ElBarto ,
@ElBarto@sh.itjust.works avatar

America is that kid who throws water balloons at random people, but cries to their mum when someone throws one back.

goldenlocks ,

The article presents no evidence of this. The report they linked here: https://www.mandiant.com/resources/blog/dragonbridge-targets-rare-earths-mining-companies also presented literally no evidence. Just some screen shots. No IP Addresses? No actual proof?

I’m glad the CIA has run out of ideas, it’s getting pathetic at this point.

billwashere ,

So the article about misinformation is itself misinformation?!? I feel like I’m in a cross between Oceans 11 and Inception.

goldenlocks ,

Yeah pretty much lol, I don’t know why people believe this without any sort of technical data to prove these accounts are Chinese, shouldn’t be hard to do that, then you have to prove they’re actually working for the government and not just some of the 1.4 billion people there that can use VPNs

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Is there proof this is coming from the government? Why can’t this just be regular trolling?

troed ,
@troed@fedia.io avatar

A lot, likely most, of the trolling we seem to take as a necesserary consquence of social media seems to be influence operations from Russia and China (as the largest players, of course there are others).

That's what strikes people the most when they go from X to Mastodon. 90% less followers, but more actual engagement and practically none of the harassment.

It seems most people simply don't troll.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

But where’s the proof that China is literally paying them to troll? Why can’t this just be organic trolling from Chinese people and pro-China sympathizers that legitimately just hate the West?

I mean if I thought I could harass politicians and get away with it…

rhizophonic ,

Cognitive domain, it’s not a new concept.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

It’s speculation, with circumstantial evidence at best.

rhizophonic ,

Occums razor, evidence isn’t necessary.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

That doesn’t mean what you think it means.

Occam’s razor, this is probably a coordinated troll group. Jumping from that to “and so this is an operation by the Chinese government” requires evidence, though, because Occam’s razor says this is a group of trolls who just do this for fun or as vigilantes.

A coordinated trolling campaign from channers or goons would look basically the same, just with different targets.

rhizophonic ,

Naw man, everyone who can exercise influence by the methods we are broadly referencing is already doing it.

It is harder to explain why the powerful Chineese wouldn’t be doing it when every other relevant group is.

queermunist , (edited )
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

I don’t think there’s proof everyone is using paid agents to systematically troll and harass enemies of the state. This is a pretty specific thing.

Surveillance is one thing. This is different.

I’d believe it if I saw proof, but I don’t see proof. I see circumstantial evidence and speculation.

rhizophonic ,

Saying “troll and harass” doesn’t really do the subject justice. I would rather describe it with the words “manipulate and influence.”

When do you think the manipulation started? It’s certainly not a new concept. It’s inherently human.

It has just evolved in modern times to use the Internet as a tool, but it’s always been happening.

Occams razor most certainly applies here. It doesn’t just apply to foreign governments but also all the nefarious factions around the world.

The evidence is all around you, psyops everywhere.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

I suppose it’s not much different than the FBI telling MLK to kill himself, if you put it like that. I still think the evidence is lacking, though. This could still definitely be vigilantism on behalf of some enthusiastic Chinese posters.

angrymouse ,

Americans are taught to hate communism from early age, any statement that say “communism is bad” is true, even comming from their government that knownly financed dictatorships and even invades countries in the name of anti-communism. Just remember they elected a president over this, you will not be able to talk pondering about this with an average murica.

If you say anything you are a tankie.

Potatofish , (edited )

You are a tankie. Edit: What? He just said he is a tankie. lol

MonkRome ,

even comming from their government that knownly financed dictatorships and even invades countries in the name of anti-communism.

Bring out the whataboutism. I’ve never understood the need for communists to stan for horrible countries anymore than I understand the need for moderates or right wingers to stan for the USA. The USA and China both have horrendous governments, their mode of governments are kind of irrelevant to the fact that they practice massive disinformation, genocide, war, colonialism, ethnocentrism, and concentrate tremendous power at the top. A government loosely tying itself to left wing policy, in name only, doesn’t automatically make it good.

angrymouse ,

Bring out the whataboutism.

You only use moral critics and then call me for whataboutism. Let’s leave the effect words aside and talk about the data?

understand the need for moderates or right wingers to stan for the USA. The USA and China both have horrendous governments

No, you don’t understand, cause you are putting China and US as they are similar, US have 800 military bases around the world, US invaded 2 countries and financed at least 3 coups only in this century, you cannot take it and say lightly “both are bad bru”.

I’ve never understood the need for communists to stan for horrible countries

What is an horrible country? This is what I’m pointing, just bad adjectives without any explanations, for a single time you can think about the possibility you are burried by cold war propaganda? Or you deny McCarthyism? China is clearly a better place with the communist party, you have a lot of room for critics but the numbers are astounding. For sure China do things I hate and criticize but I can’t understand the need for muricas to call a country that made the biggest leap in combat poverty in the history of humanity, an “horrible country” and refuse to elaborate. Is horrible for who and where?

genocide, war, colonialism, ethnocentrism

Here pls enlight me, I’m totally open to this, but there is any source for what you are saying that does not come from a think tank?
Genocide: how do you have genocide without propaganda? There is any piece of propaganda against any minority in China? You have social media there, how nobody ever got a public speech against a minority in China? I never saw even a Trump/Bolsonaro/Órban/Le Pen like public speech against any minority. If you have, pls link it to me.
War: where is war and what war? After the revolution which war China entered? The last war China participated was the Vietnam war when they defended the already recognized Vietnam government (that even received help from US during the war against Japan) against and US trying to bring Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia back to the French domain. Before it was just civil wars.

Here I will get a comparision, and it is not whataboutism, I have to compare to something that is not just an idealization of myself:

bases around the globe

China have 4 militar bases around the world;
Germany have 4 bases around the world;
Turkey have 10 bases around the world;
UK have 32 bases around the world;
Canada have 4 bases around the world;

If there is countries looking to war, for me seems that China is least one of them. The only thing I remember that is shit right now is the Indonesia x China situation, but is far away of escalation.

concentrate tremendous power at the top

How much it is? I’m not saying that China is a beautiful place, but there is actual voting systems with a enourmous rotation of ppl in the congress and officially the general secretary have less power than a president in presidentialism and similar to a a Prime Minister.

Also about power, 1,095 strikes recorded in 2021, for me strikes are a great indicator that workers have some kind of power and can demand better conditions.

I’ve never understood the need for communists to stan for horrible countries

Answering your question, do you never thought the possibility that these “horrible countries” were not that horrible places and that you (specially if you are on US) have a completely distorted vision of these countries because you are historically in war with them? And again, China is not a perfect place, but no country is, countries don’t come from nothing. But if you still try to label things without any deeper insight, like bad, good, genocide, war, you will never understand, for sure.

HandBreadedTools ,

the US Department of Justice charged more than 30 Chinese officials earlier this year with running a sprawling disinformation operation that had targeted dissidents in the US

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Charges aren’t convictions.

IonAddis ,
@IonAddis@lemmy.world avatar

I remember the early days of social media. Once upon a time, Livejournal was THE social media site. A lot of fandom stuff took place on there.

Then it got sold to Russia, and there’d be days when LJ was weirdly down and unstable (this was before Cloudflare and DDoS protection) for some reason–and I’d learn there was some political strife going on on the Russian-speaking side, because their politicians and thinkers and radicals had made it their online home (long before any politicians in the USA used social media). But I was too young at the time to understand what was going on. All I knew what my fandom space where I talked about books and stuff was having outages due to stuff going on on the Russian-speaking side.

Basically, Russia was using the platform to perfect manipulating social media on its own citizens. Then it turned around and used it on the English-speaking and western world–and other nations have been watching very keenly, and seeing how effective it’s been. That China would do it too is basically like, “Duh, of course they would. It WORKS.”

MicroWave OP , (edited )
@MicroWave@lemmy.world avatar

From the article:

Private researchers have tracked the network since its discovery more than four years ago, but only in recent months have federal prosecutors and Facebook’s parent company Meta publicly concluded that the operation has ties to Chinese police.

Meta announced in August it had taken down a cluster of nearly 8,000 accounts attributed to this group in the second quarter of 2023 alone. Google, which owns YouTube, told CNN it had shut down more than 100,000 associated accounts in recent years, while X, formerly known as Twitter, has blocked hundreds of thousands of China “state-backed” or “state-linked” accounts, according to company blogs.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

I don’t trust Meta or Xitter about anything else, why would I trust them on this issue?

zaph ,

You stike me as the type of person who didn’t read the article and will refuse to read any follow up articles explaining the research.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

I’m willing to believe this is coordinated, but again, no proof that this is some kind of paid government opp. In fact, it sounds almost indistinguishable from how 4chan used to operate (before it was invaded by boomers).

Inmate ,

deleted_by_author

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  • interceder270 ,

    Where do you see his info?

    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    Yeah idk what you’re on about.

    Also that totally just looks like chan/goon shit lol

    interceder270 ,

    Well, you see, China bad.

    interceder270 , (edited )

    “Trust us bro.”

    How did they conclude the operation has ties to Chinese police?

    Edit: As usual, crickets.

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    far too many accounts, and too well organized.. and they absolutely are working this space very actively..

    IonAddis ,
    @IonAddis@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, I looked at this comment section when the article was first posted, and then looked at it now–and boy is it a mess.

    One part astroturfing, one part “useful fools” who actually do genuinely believe what they’re saying. Then all the rest of the other people wandering around, adding to the chaos.

    Insofar as “warfare” goes, dropping some English-writing locals into a chair with a cheap chromebook or laptop is basically a ROUNDING ERROR when it comes to defense and military budgets.

    For how effective it is, it’s so fucking cheap. And beancounters and accountants LOVE cheap. Dude over there wants expensive weapons requiring expensive manufacturing facilities to be made, and THIS guy here wants an office space with an internet connection in bumfuck nowhere? Let’s fund the bumfuck nowhere propaganda guy.

    And the US, the UK, Canada even, many western European countries have shown their populations are vulnerable and weak to online misinformation. So from a real-world monetary angle, it’s SUCH a great bang for your buck.

    If I were running a country that couldn’t compete from a weapons standpoint–due to any variety of reasons…poor country, or a culture of corruption, or lack of scientific manpower or knowledge because of brain drain or something…whatever–and all I had to do was pay some poor folk who desperately needed income to feed themselves and their families, and they’d sit in front of cheap chromebooks or laptops or whatever and monitor certain sites for keywords or certain discussions, and it’d have AS MUCH EFFECT on western countries as we’ve seen it’s been having over the past 10 years…yeah. It’s a no-brainer. I’d do it.

    Like, a country that already feeds its own citizens propaganda from cradle to grave isn’t going to flicker an eyelash of doing the same thing to its enemies. ESPECIALLY not when it’s so fucking cheap. And given American and western culture is so prevalent that people actually say “America has no culture”, other nations might even see messing around on social media as nothing more than fighting back, so it’s not just some military spy-thing driving it, but a sense of pride, of David taking down a Goliath with nothing more than a few stones made of words on the internet.

    Yeah, it’s happening. It makes too much financial sense not to. It’s cheap AND effective. Any aggressive power is going to make use of that tool, esp. if they’ve having trouble obtaining other tools.

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    I want to be part of the group wandering around causing chaos. Can I be paid to do this?

    Serinus ,

    Also Hexbear was very actively echoing the tactics of 2015 r/the_donald.

    Keeping it “fun” and light, shallow brigading, dogpiling, memes, a clique to belong to, and instant bans.

    It was pretty transparent.

    Marleyinoc ,

    deleted_by_moderator

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  • vsh ,
    @vsh@lemm.ee avatar

    Only bomb? Where can I donate my money for the nukes?

    Pat_Riot ,
    @Pat_Riot@lemmy.today avatar

    It’s called tik tok isn’t it?

    Cqrd ,

    They’re all over, here it’s called hexbear.

    guacupado ,

    That and MAGA.

    MrSqueezles ,

    Tik-Tok’s only problem is capitalism. /s

    I’d bet I’m not the first person to write that sentence on Lemmy, Hexbear and elsewhere. The problem is right here and everywhere.

    not_that_guy05 , (edited )

    Can’t we just let Japan and Britain take their colonies back? Ancestry or whatever the fuck china it’s claiming with parts of the ocean and Taiwan, should be used against them equally.

    trashgirlfriend ,

    I know this is not a serious reply but jeez that’s fucked up

    trackcharlie ,

    I think the world needs 4k footage of something like that to get people to stop fucking around and hold their representatives and governments accountable. Majority of deaths in UA and Palestine are at the hands of american made weaponry.

    Probably the cia again.

    not_that_guy05 ,

    The bait didn’t work unfortunately. I use to say the same in Reddit and they would be coming out of the shadows. I guess they aren’t here as much as they were on Reddit.

    But I always did enjoy the gymnastics they would do.

    IvanOverdrive ,

    Because they did such an exceptional job last time

    not_that_guy05 ,

    No one said they did an exceptional job. Just saying their heritage BS against them. That’s all, but the bait didn’t work this time as it use to in Reddit. Must not be that many on Lemmy.world.

    Du3K ,

    A bunch of actual people are keyboard warriors, trolls and bigots online?

    No, that makes too much sense, everyone being mean online to Americans is a Chinese bot.

    SchizoDenji ,

    >Lemmy.ml account

    >Excusing China.

    paddirn ,

    Victims face a barrage of tens of thousands of social media posts that call them traitors, dogs, and racist and homophobic slurs. They say it’s all part of an effort to drive them into a state of constant fear and paranoia.

    I don’t think I’ve heard/read somebody getting called a “dog” much before (unless they’re referring to the other name somebody might use “b****”), isn’t that more a foreign and/or rural insult? I don’t remember ever getting hit with any of these myself, so maybe it stings more in that context, but that list of insults is almost comical and reads like words somebody would say that didn’t speak English as their primary language.

    AWistfulNihilist ,

    The Chinese spam machine was operating at the same time as the Russian system back in 2016, it was hilariously ineffective because apparently the sensibilities are so different. Memes didn’t land, insults are odd sounding.

    What I found really interesting in this article is they’ve changed or adjusted, or maybe just made more visible the effective part of this campaign. Targeting Chinese ex-pats, or Chinese abroad, even ethnically Chinese people who are first or second generation citizens of Western countries.

    It’s a way to reach out and maintain influence through fear, nowhere is safe sort of thing.

    WashedOver ,
    @WashedOver@lemmy.ca avatar

    This is an issue that has come up in national news recently for Canada too. The harassment has been targeting those with Chinese backgrounds that have been involved in an infrastructure or politics. There’s been a controversy as CSIS did not disclose this threat initially, even to those targeted.

    It will be interesting to see if Biden will be able to get the US and Chinese military to perform joint exercises again with the upcoming visit. The Chinese pulled out of them in protest to Pelusi’s visit to Taiwan last year.

    August27th ,

    This finally explains the purpose of TikTok as a spy platform to me. What better way to get deep research into the sensibilities of your targets.

    SCB ,

    China knows all about my taste in thicc goth women

    Scubus ,

    Mmm i feel so harassed

    Zehzin ,
    @Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

    Anyone know if harassing US politicians and businesses is a paid gig?

    Travalanche ,
    @Travalanche@lemmy.world avatar

    And here we’ve all been doing it for free all along!

    Zehzin ,
    @Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

    Never put a price in doing what you love.

    BrandonMatrick ,

    But if you end up falling in love with whatever it is you’re good at… You’d better hire an accountant.

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    If you are good at something, never do it for free.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Yes, but it’s Chinese pay, so we’re talking 30 cents an hour.

    Zehzin ,
    @Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

    You joke but Chinese minimum wage is higher than my country’s 💀

    EDIT: according to Google it actually varies by province so it can be lower or higher but it’s right at the edge

    Bartsbigbugbag ,

    Can I live in China so I can buy a whole meal for 15 cents? Right now I’m more than double the min wage in my state and a McDonald’s meal costs about half an hour of time, so I’d still be making about the same in terms of what I could buy.

    WindyRebel ,

    Have you not heard about lobbying?

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