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NYPD shot four people - including two bystanders one who is in critical condition - and another cop over a $2.90 fare.

Police opened fire on a subway platform in Brooklyn during a confrontation with an alleged fare-beater, striking the man cops said was armed with a knife, two straphangers caught in the fray, and one of the firing officers, NYPD officials said Sunday.

One of those two passengers hit by the cops’ bullets, a 49-year-old man, was hospitalized in critical condition after he was hit struck in the head, according to the NYPD.

The two officers who opened fire were assigned to patrol the Sutter Avenue subway stop in the 73rd precinct when they spotted a man skip the station turnstile and walk through an open gate toward the train platform, Chief of Department Jeffrey Maddrey explained at an evening press conference from Brookdale Hospital.

tiefling , (edited )

NYPD goes HARD on toll jumpers, but there’s virtually zero enforcement on traffic and cars. Everywhere I go I see assholes with illegally modified vehicles, degenerates speeding down shoulders, motorcycles on crowded sidewalks and pedestrian paths, and too many drunk drivers to count. There are so many cases where one pig parked on the shoulder during rush hour would fund the city budget for a year.

Instead we get whole families of pigs loitering by the turnstiles

UnderpantsWeevil OP ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

The NYPD also loves to go after jaywalkers and vagrants, particularly when they’re interfering with the flow of street traffic.

Cars are King, baby.

Gimpydude ,

I totally agree about the vagrancy thing. I have never seen nor heard of anyone in NYC getting a ticket for jaywalking but I only lived there for 50 years.

xmunk ,

Fuck cars!

RamblingPanda ,

Easy friend. That’s for dragons.

xmunk ,

Sigh… nobody has brought over that community yet.

dubyakay ,

Dragons fucking cars? Or cars fucking dragons?

Moneo ,

Apparently we’re calling commuters “straphangers” now too. I wonder if the NYPD will shoot at speeding wheelgrippers next.

Gimpydude ,

The subways used to have straps on the bars to hold on to during the ride. They’ve been called straphangers for a very long time. In the 80’s one of my brothers was part of the Straphangers Campaign.

Cheems ,
@Cheems@lemmy.world avatar

Clearly that’s where the money is. $2.90 goes hard

capital ,

the man cops said was armed with a knife

Title is meant to make you believe the shooting is about the fare. That seems deliberate.

Garbanzo ,

“We will be working through the timeline of today, but make no mistake, the events that occurred on the Sutter Avenue station platform are the results of an armed perpetrator who was confronted by our officers doing the job we asked them to do," Donlon said.

Could we maybe not ask police officers to escalate minor and petty conflicts all the way up to shooting everyone in the immediate vicinity?

Samvega ,

doing the job we asked them to do

Ah, so we should pursue this ‘we’ who are asking cops to kill innocent people. Thanks, Donlon!

Mac ,

“armed perpetrator” ah, so any american that commits a crime, then?

masterspace ,

I mean according to the article, technically they just tried to stop him over the $2.90 fare.

Then because of that he threatened to kill them and they realized he had a knife so they tasered him.

Then when that didn’t work and he ran at them with the knife they opened fire.

Multiple people are still dead because they brought guns into a disagreement over $2.90, but the headline implies a lot more unreasonableness on the individual cops’ parts as opposed to the overall policy.

UnderpantsWeevil OP ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Then because of that he threatened to kill them

They claim he made a threat. The article failed to print his side of the story for some curious reason. It isn’t printing any testimony from the bystanders, either.

Multiple people are still dead because they brought guns into a disagreement over $2.90, but the headline implies a lot more unreasonableness on the individual cops’ parts as opposed to the overall policy.

Cops will often lie about the danger of a suspect in order to justify elevating their use-of-force. That said, they weren’t that concerned by his unreasonableness when they deployed tasers into the crowd first. They didn’t switch to guns until they realized the tasers weren’t going to work.

masterspace ,

They claim he made a threat. The article failed to print his side of the story for some curious reason. It isn’t printing any testimony from the bystanders, either.

Fair enough, supposedly they were wearing body cams so hopefully some of what actually happened can be answered objectively, I’m just pointing out what the article said. If he didn’t make a threat or have a knife, then tasering him is a wild escalation, it’s just that if he did, then the police can’t really just let him get on a train.

Cops will often lie about the danger of a suspect in order to justify elevating their use-of-force. That said, they weren’t that concerned by his unreasonableness when they deployed tasers into the crowd first. They didn’t switch to guns until they realized the tasers weren’t going to work.

Again, assuming what the article says is true, which is a big assumption, it’s not that crazy to taser a guy who just got onto a train with a knife and threatened to you. At that point you’re looking at a potential mass stabbing incident if you do nothing.

Again, who knows, maybe the cops are blowing his behaviour wildly out of proportion, I’m just saying that, based on the article, it sounds like he wasn’t just gunned down for jumping a turnstile.

UnderpantsWeevil OP ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

the police can’t really just let him get on a train

If they had, three people would have avoided bullet wounds and one of them wouldn’t be in the ER right now.

it’s not that crazy to taser a guy who just got onto a train

If you’ve ever ridden the subway in NYC, particularly during rush hour, the idea of firing a taser into a train full of people is absolutely crazy.

masterspace , (edited )

If they had, three people would have avoided bullet wounds and one of them wouldn’t be in the ER right now.

And maybe a bunch of people would have been stabbed by the guy with a knife who just threatened to kill someone.

If you’ve ever ridden the subway in NYC, particularly during rush hour, the idea of firing a taser into a train full of people is absolutely crazy.

Again, they could be lying about the knife and the threat, but if he did have a knife and just threaten to kill someone it would be absolutely crazy to let him get on a subway train full of people.

Garbanzo ,

At that point you’re looking at a potential mass stabbing incident

At which point the NYPD will hide because that’s scary

masterspace ,

I mean, this is arguably what them not hiding looks like.

Tar_alcaran , (edited )

Then because of that he threatened to kill them and they realized he had a knife so they tasered him.

Then when that didn’t work and he ran at them with the knife they opened fire.

Is the version of what’s the killers are saying. I’ll believe it when I see the camera footage. Good thing they have bodycams, so they can instantly prove their story.

GetOffMyLan , (edited )

This is obviously fucked up. But they are clearly intentionally downplaying that he pulled a knife when stopped. He wasn’t shot for the fair lol

Samvega ,

But they are clearly intentionally downplaying that he pulled a knife

The subtitle: “NYPD brass said the alleged fare-beater had charged at the officers with a knife…”

Maybe your reading comprehension is indicated by your use of “He wasn’t shot for the fair [sic] lol”.

GetOffMyLan ,

Not sure reading comprehension is tied to typos on a mobile. I was referring to the title of the post. No need to be rude friend.

Kyrgizion ,

Ahh yes. Nothing like killing a perp and a few bystanders for a few dollars’ worth of fare. USA! USA!

Lets_Eat_Grandma ,

I think if people had even more guns this could have been avoided. What if there was a six year old with a 22 there to respond to the gunshots with some of his own? maybe less people would be dead.

Guns make everyone way safer. We need to start providing them in utero.

bilboswaggings ,

Abortions are prebirth, so should guns

Cephalotrocity ,

How dare you politicize gun violence while a police officer is injured!

AA5B ,

Right, or the bystander that got shot in the head could have returned fire, if only he were armed

Garbanzo ,

Take the guns from the police and give them to the embryos. I think you’re on to something here.

henfredemars ,

Why stop at guns? Everyone should have access to portable WMDs to keep the world safe.

Lets_Eat_Grandma ,

Hey, we have to draw the line somewhere. Let’s stop at a gigaton.

superkret ,

They stopped him for a few dollars’ worth of fare.
They shot him for charging at them with a knife.

ieatpillowtags ,

We’ll see if that story pans out, I’m sure the body cam footage is coming any minute…

Thebeardedsinglemalt ,

They used more money in ammunition than the amount of money the shootout started over!

UnderpantsWeevil OP ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Evidence of why the “Chris Rock solves gun crime” strategy won’t work.

Thebeardedsinglemalt ,

Chris Rock solves gun crime

Make bullets cost $5000 a piece!

catloaf ,

Just having them there on detail probably costs more than they recover from fare evaders.

aaaaace ,

NYPD: The dumbest kid from every high school on Long Island.

5oap10116 , (edited )

I’m in Suffolk and can confirm. Kid got a 680/2400 on the SAT. Not that the SAT is a great intelligence test but damn.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I am waiting for former cop PR man Adams’ defense of the cops with bated breath.

UnderpantsWeevil OP ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Mayor Eric Adams, who also attended the briefing, described the knife-wielding man as a “career criminal” with over 20 arrests.

Is that true? Is it relevant? Idk. But it’s in the article.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

It’s as relevant as Kyle Rittenhouse murdering a registered sex offender.

In both cases, there is no possible way the person firing the gun could have known that.

UnderpantsWeevil OP ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Hey now, when Kyle Rittenhouse crossed state lines to take pot-shots into a crowd of protesters, he paid every toll and observed every traffic ordinance. How can you possibly compare Rittenhouse to this turnstile jumping barbarian?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I was comparing Rittenhouse to the cops. Do keep up.

dhork , (edited )

It sounds like the guy had a knife and threatened to use it. It also sounds like the cops tried to taze the guy first, but it didn’t work.

We can argue whether the cops really needed to shoot the guy. But they weren’t shooting at a fare evader, they were shooting at a guy with a knife who also happened to jump the turnstile.

I’d argue that the real problem is that the cops didn’t know how to de-escalate the situation without shooting. It’s like the tazer was their only “non-lethal” option, and when that didn’t work, they panicked. (I could also believe that they were simply incompetent, and couldn’t work the tazer properly.)

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

The guy only threatened to use the knife after they stopped him for turnstile jumping. If the New York subway didn’t have turnstiles (the L.A. subway doesn’t), most people would still pay their fares. Most people understand that their fares keep the trains running. There was no need for this. At all.

I should say that there are transit cops that check tickets in L.A. If you don’t have one, all they do is escort you out of the station. And this is the LAPD we’re talking about.

dhork , (edited )

The guy only threatened to use the knife after they stopped him for turnstile jumping.

I should say that there are transit cops that check tickets in L.A. If you don’t have one, all they do is escort you out of the station. And this is the LAPD we’re talking about.

The first step to “escorting you out of the station” is stopping you, is it not?

My whole point is that the cops didn’t get belligerent until he pulled the knife. It also sounds like he might have boarded a train with the knife out, too. (It was the L train, though, I’m sure the riders have seen worse.)

They didn’t start shooting because he jumped the turnstile. I bet if he didn’t have a knife they would have just wrote him a ticket and made him leave.

You dont think your LA cops would have treated their fare evader a bit differently if he pulled a knife?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, stopping you to say, “can I see your ticket?” If the person without a ticket runs, where are they going to run to? Back on the train that just left? They can’t do that. Out of the station? That’s where they were going to be taken anyway. It’s not worth the cops’ time in L.A. like it apparently is in New York.

Again, this shit doesn’t happen there.

dhork ,

But it sounds like the guy said “I’m gonna kill you if you don’t stop following me”, then hopped on the train with the knife out. You think the cops in LA would have let him do that?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You show me when this sort of situation has ever happened in L.A.

Because believe me, there are plenty of crazies with knives in L.A. too.

WoahWoah , (edited )

Didn’t it literally just happen there like two weeks ago when LAPD TSD used force against someone evading fare and they ran, jumped onto the tracks, and were then electrocuted and run over by a train?

LA metro rail has yearly ridership of a little less than 62 million.

NYC has yearly ridership of over 1.3 BILLION.

These aren’t remotely the same systems.

Samvega , (edited )

These aren’t remotely the same systems.

You don’t get to pretend two train systems are not similar because you write BILLION in all caps and bold.

Thank you, by the way, for so clearly representing yourself in your post history. You’re doing this old man a service by making it so obvious that you are continually arguing in bad faith.

WoahWoah ,

K

corsicanguppy ,

Most people understand that their fares keep the trains running.

Fares make up for about 10% of operating expenses for our trains. User-fees promote a dangerous need to balance yesterday’s costs with today’s availability, which is ultimately self-defeating.

Brkdncr ,

The LA subway has turnstiles. Most people don’t pay. I’d watch maybe 2/3rds of people skip payment by using the wheelchair/bike turnstile. They would do it in front of cops.

They are starting to enforce fares again though.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

If they have turnstiles, that is something they added since I lived there a decade ago.

Brkdncr ,

They have the simple waste-high turnstile at every subway stop. At above-ground locations they don’t have these. They have been there for 15 years or longer.

There are no full height “man trap” turnstiles if that’s what you’re talking about.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I took the train from NoHo to downtown or Long Beach all the time and I do not remember turnstiles. In fact, I remember wondering where they were the first time I did it.

Brkdncr ,

Noho as of this summer now requires you to tap to unlock the turnstile to exit too. They are expanding this to other red/B line stops.

DTLA 7th/Fig has definitely always had turnstiles.

Long Beach has not had turnstiles.

WoahWoah ,

Yes, let’s look to the LAPD for better policing practice. Wow.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

That was my point though. Even the LAPD isn’t this bad.

Garbanzo ,

cops said was armed with a knife

You know they lie to cover their own asses, right?

dhork ,

Yes, but this time their body cams seem to have worked. Amazing how that happens when it shows things that can justify the cop’s story?

Garbanzo ,

And yet they didn’t release the footage. Either there’s no knife or the behavior of the police was outrageously incompetent. If they were justified they’d be tripping over themselves to show it.

dhork ,

It only happened yesterday, if the footage backs up the cop’s story it will get released eventually.

Garbanzo ,

Big IF

unmagical , (edited )

Do we actually know if he had a knife? Initial reporting was that the police knew he had a knife because he refused to take his hands out of his pockets. While he did threaten them, it was contingent upon them continuing to follow them. He did not actually attack them until after multiple officers attempted to tase him. Furthermore, so what if he had a knife? As far as we’re aware, he’s got a second amendment right to keep and bear arms. Being armed isn’t an excuse to be killed by cops because you are generally explicitly allowed to be armed.

All in all:

  • We don’t know he’s armed
  • We don’t know his intentions
  • He didn’t immediately attack anyone
  • While he did threaten them he made no indication that he intended to follow through until he was attacked
  • He continued to try to leave the situation until he was attacked
  • The police attacked him first
  • He didn’t have a gun
  • 4 people were shot by the police; he was killed (this seems to have been erroneously reported earlier. He is now reportedly in critical condition), an officer and 2 bystanders were wounded
  • No one was stabbed

While that is textbook escalation, it really doesn’t seem like they shot him cause he had a knife. They shot him (and 3 others) cause he didn’t care about their authority and they couldn’t let the guy that was already on the train go. And all that came about because he tried to skip a fare that costs around the same amount as the bullets fired.

ByteOnBikes ,

How much would this criminal get away with?

Roughly $3.00.

The only message I got was cops are unhinged.

Samvega ,

“$3 is more important than innocent lives. We must set an example.”

istanbullu ,

How incompetent do you have to be to shoot a bystander?

UnderpantsWeevil OP ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

When aiming into a crowd of people? You’d have to be an exceptional marksman to hit your target. Of course, there’s the question of why you’re firing into a crowd to begin with.

whotookkarl ,
@whotookkarl@lemmy.world avatar

Why hasn’t the city released the full body cam footage?

NatakuNox ,
@NatakuNox@lemmy.world avatar

Meanwhile corporations steal billions through white collar crime and the police do nothing. Nearly all blue collar crime is due to poverty and white collar crime creates more poverty. If police really wanted to stop crime they’d be pouring over corporations accounting to find the stolen money.

UnderpantsWeevil OP ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

If police really wanted to stop crime they’d be pouring over corporations accounting to find the stolen money.

Sounds like dirty authoritarian big government communism to me.

Nuke_the_whales ,

I hope the cop that got shot is hurting. Stupid fucks

PriorityMotif ,
@PriorityMotif@lemmy.world avatar

Definitely sitting at home, getting paid leave and talking to his union provided lawyer and was told not to say anything by his coworkers who didn’t arrest him for shooting multiple people.

ravhall ,

Another mass shooting

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