There have been multiple accounts created with the sole purpose of posting advertisement posts or replies containing unsolicited advertising.

Accounts which solely post advertisements, or persistently post them may be terminated.

The wine industry is worried that gen Z and millennials are turning away from the grape, citing cost, health risks and alternatives such as mocktails and marijuana

“Wine just is mid.”

“It’s easier to smoke weed.”

“Alcohol is finally getting the rep it deserves.”

These are just a few of the reasons many young people are going sour on wine, according to a scroll through TikTok or Reddit.

The views lend weight to fears that gen Z and millennials are losing interest in the drink, with potentially disastrous consequences for the wine world. A seemingly endless stream of recent reports have warned that baby boomers, who have fueled the industry, are retiring and spending less, and millennials aren’t picking up the slack.

“You’re looking at a cliff,” the industry analyst Rob McMillan told the San Francisco Chronicle in 2022, following a key report that showed wine consumption in the US hadn’t grown in 2021 – despite bars and restaurants reopening. McMillan foresaw wine consumption by volume declining 20% in the next decade, with millennial habits key to the shift. Last year, Nielsen data showed 45% of gen Zers over 21 said they had never drunk alcohol.

The implications for winemakers are dire; late last month, one of the biggest US wine producers, Vintage Wine Estates, filed for bankruptcy, citing, in part, an “unanticipated steep decrease in demand”. And it’s not the only one facing a precipice: worldwide, wine consumption dropped 2.6% last year, hitting its lowest level since 1996, according to the International Organisation of Vine and Wine. In California, vineyards are getting ripped out; France last year announced it would set aside cash to destroy excess wine.

While the data behind the downturn is complex, industry insiders say it’s time for a change. “Why hinge so much on the way it’s always been?” the wine writer and educator Maiah Johnson Dunn puts it. “We’re just all in this weird limbo figuring out what’s going to happen next.”

In December, a TikTok from a millennial sommelier asking her audience why they weren’t drinking wine earned 1.6m views and tens of thousands of comments, with many pointing to the health risks of alcohol, the cost of wine, and alternatives such as cocktails, mocktails and cannabis. Cider is having an American moment – thanks to a new generation of crafters Read more

This shift toward other types of drinks, or simply not drinking, rings true for Ellen McNeill, 28, who co-hosts Silverlake Jams, a Los Angeles neighborhood music night that draws a crowd of mostly 24- to 39-year-olds. McNeill, who previously worked for a hard seltzer company, loves wine but sees a number of obstacles to its success among young people – not least the growing variety of alcoholic options, from hard kombucha to pre-mixed, canned cocktails.

Another big one is health – the US generally doesn’t require booze brands to put nutrition facts on their labels, leaving consumers in the dark about what they’re putting in their bodies. When McNeill was marketing the seltzer to potential drinkers, “one of the top questions was: how much sugar does it have? How many calories? Can I see the nutrition?”

Her former employer does detail its nutrition facts, but “wine doesn’t really give a shit about calories. It’s about the taste and the experience.” Indeed, concerns about sugar content seem widespread among those who say they don’t drink wine. (Some on TikTok have linked high sugar to worse hangovers, though experts have suggested it’s not that simple.)

Another is a trend toward avoiding alcohol entirely – it tends to be older guests who drink, she says. “A lot of people do stay way more sober than I initially would have expected.”

That’s in line with a growing focus on the dangers of alcohol. The World Health Organization made no bones about it in April, proclaiming: “No level of alcohol consumption is safe for our health.” Between 2005 and 2023, the percentage of Americans who see moderate drinking as bad for you jumped from 22% to 39%, Gallup found. “I’ve heard wineries say it’s just been really challenging to deal with the aftermath” of the WHO statement, says Dunn, who is based in Rochester, New York, with people “scared to even visit sometimes”.

Rentlar ,

It’s a 3 trick pony - red, white and rosé… sure you could probably differentiate $10 wine with $250 wine with the latter generally tasting better, but the baseline range of flavours is the same. Beer is great since you can drink a lot and get a milder buzz, whiskey and spirits get you drunk more instantly, where wine is an in-between that isn’t very appealing. Beer/Cider/Seltzer/Hard Soda types of drinks and Spirits have a great range of flavours in comparison to wine too.

If wineries and breweries want people drinking more, they have to invest in trains (lol), so that they can serve their product on them and we won’t have to worry about drunk drivers.

valek879 ,

You are completely wrong about it being a 3 trick pony. There is tons of variety in wine beyond the color. But I’m not actually here to argue that because I completely agree with your last point. The thing that most often keeps me from drinking is the need to drive home at the end of the night. I don’t want to kill someone and I didn’t want to lose my job (I drive for work) because I went out to drink. So I drink at home which is not a healthy way to drink. So I don’t drink regularly.

If I didn’t have to drive to work I’d walk more which would put me on the ground, passing more bars and restaurants with the option to pop in for a pint and a bite to eat. Then hop on a tram or underground or light rail and head home full and happy. But we can’t have nice things like that in the US because oil rules or politics.

Rentlar ,

Yeah it’s not like I hate wine either, and characterizing as 3 types I agree is a massive oversimplification. It’s just it has fewer elements that interest me to go out of my way for it compared to craft beer and spirits.

TOModera ,

I say this as a millennial who drinks and actually did whisky tasting as my main hobby with reviews for 12 years; I get it. I worked with and in the alcohol industry. They have no clue. It’s all ego and razor thin margins and old ways of running a business. They are heavily resistant to change of any sort. They will not be able to handle this at all.

Add to that they are owned by rich people as vanity projects who want their ROI ASAP at levels that healthier margin/growth industries could barely achieve and we will start seeing them disappear. Which is too bad, because it’s centuries of tradition in some cases, and I find it tasty.

givesomefucks ,

Add to that they are owned by rich people as vanity projects who want their ROI ASAP at levels that healthier margin/growth industries could barely achieve

They say it’s a vanity project and they just love wine…

But yeah, its just another investment.

We end up with bargin bin wine at 10x the price because a rich person who doesn’t know wine is running the business.

Europe has wineries that have existed for decades at least, ran by people who know how to make wine, and how to make a profit for it

For American “boutique wine” I really wouldn’t be surprised if packaging and marketing is a bigger expense than actually making the wine. As other mentioned, lots of Americans are priced out of it, the American economy focuses on selling to the wealthy because no one else has disposal income anymore.

And rich people always just assume that expensive equal better and a rich person knows how to do anything better than someone who actually knows what they’re doing.

Enkers ,

Yep. The only way to taste wine is to do it blind so you don’t have preconceptions of quality based on the price. Doing this really exposes that there’s not a ton of rhyme or reason to wine pricing. There is a general trend that you get a better wine for more money, but there are so many outliers, especially expensive wines that just aren’t anything special.

Mirshe ,

Really the only trend, from my friends and coworkers who have done wine tasting, is that once you climb above the absolute bottom tier, the field is…kinda flat until you start paying hundreds per bottle. That $14 Yellow Tail white will, without a lot of outliers, taste just as good as a white that’s $150. The more expensive one might have a more depth or complexity, but they will be fairly easily comparable overall.

evasive_chimpanzee ,

A huge problem with the wine industry in America is that they’ve always tried to position themselves as a premium product with respect to other forms of alcohol. With respect to the information available to the consumer, the pricing seems to be random. Products that are aged understandably are going to cost more, and huge brands should be cheaper than small brands. Other than that, prices just seem to be set to correspond to whatever market segment they are targeting. A $20 bottle of wine may taste way better than a $15 bottle, but it could also be worse. There’s no indication of what could make the $20 bottle better than the $15 bottle other than the fact that it’s more expensive. Some brands put a little bit more info in, like the percentage of grapes, and sometimes they tell you where the grapes came from, but most consumers are just going to grab the cheaper bottle.

Contrast this with beer, where you know higher abv=more ingredients=more expensive, aged beers are more expensive, and beers from smaller or foreign breweries are more expensive. Breweries often tell you the exact ingredients that went in, so you can get a decent idea of what a beer will taste like before ordering, and you can make an informed decision to buy slightly more expensive products.

Wine is a little more tricky because there are fewer ingredients, and less processing, but they could absolutely give way more info. The wines that are good just try to market it as the magic of terroir in a bottle, rather than actually pointing out how and why they are better or taste different.

NuXCOM_90Percent ,

The “problem” is that wine and other forms of booze generally don’t work as a “new” business. Because you generally can’t charge top dollar without it being aged but also need to make sure that you can guarantee you sell out all those aged bottles/barrels. Because even a few seasons in a glorified warehouse are a mess for bookkeeping and a large investment. It isn’t even that you can’t make five year old bourbon on demand. It is that you have to plan how much you need closer to six or seven years out.

Same with beer, just to a much lower timeline. The reason why EVERYONE has ninety IPAs is that you basically CAN brew that on demand. According to chatgpt, an IPA takes 3-4 weeks (and I have seen a lot shorter periods…) whereas a pislner is 6-8 and others go even farther. But that is still an extra 3-4 weeks of barrel and warehouse time.

So you really do need the mega-corporations to do anything at scale. Which means it is inherently “bad” because people want The Culture and to pretend they can tell the difference between two different vintages of the same wine rather than comparing general families or regions of wine. And corporations won’t have that magic special something.

ABCDE ,

So you really do need the mega-corporations to do anything at scale.

You don’t need a corporation to create batches of beer, anyone can do it.

Jakeroxs ,

They did mention that in the comment, they were talking about Wine creation requiring larger amounts of cash to invest in which generally requires corporations.

NuXCOM_90Percent ,

Yup. Startup cash to cover the potentially months without profit as well as operating cash to be able to plan out a year or two in advance (let alone a decade) and not be beggared if you have one bad season.

But hey, reading is hard when someone can instead key in on one phrase, isolate it, and feel like they have reading comprehension skills.

Noodle07 ,

Crazy because at the same time I’ve never seen so many vines planted here (côte du Rhône in France) yet wine is getting cheaper and cheaper

otter ,

… That’s how that works, though. 😅😶

Someonelol ,
@Someonelol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

The sulfates in wine can give me a headache before a buzz even settles in. It’s much easier to enjoy a latte and an edible.

Sir_Kevin ,
@Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Same here. My gf often drinks wine and I have to constantly remind her to hold her glass away from me. That shit’s an instant headache for me.

phdepressed ,

Honestly pretty crazy to me that 45% of legal Gen Z hasn’t had alcohol at all. That’s the craziest data in there for me if true. I guess covid really cut parties out for those prime peer pressure age groups. And it’s a cyclic effect as there’s less drinkers to peer pressure new drinkers.

I enjoy a drink(not wine) but the price and health are real kickers. I want a low abv good tasting beer and that’s hard to find as craft is still chasing the high abv super IPAs. I only have a drink with my weekly dnd and that’s kinda it anyway though.

Sir_Kevin ,
@Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I’m gen x and have never drank. In my 20’s people couldn’t believe this. But as I got older and hung out with people I relate to I found more and more that I wasn’t alone on this. From my personal experience and friend circles, most people go through their party phase and then alcohol loses it’s appeal.

owenfromcanada ,
@owenfromcanada@lemmy.world avatar

millennials aren’t picking up the slack

Wine is a luxury industry. There is no “slack” to be picked up.

Bonesince1997 ,

There is box wine…

givesomefucks ,

We tried to play “slap the bag” with a bottle of wine and it just wasn’t the same…

rezifon ,

We prefer the term “Cardbordeaux”

otter ,

Ha! That’s rich. 🤓

billiam0202 ,

If it were rich it wouldn’t be in a box, now would it?

Rai ,

SLAP

THAT

BAG

kent_eh ,

There is also wine in a can.

tunetardis ,

Was playing Civ6 the other day and can confirm: wine is a luxury resource.

homesweethomeMrL ,

according to a scroll through TikTok or Reddit.

No, no. Don’t get up.

ArmoredThirteen ,

We’re midway through passing the blame torch. Soon they’ll drop the millennial part and it’ll just be “gen Z is killing an expensive or shitty industry how could they!”

HootinNHollerin ,
partial_accumen ,

Soon they’ll drop the millennial part and it’ll just be “gen Z is killing an expensive or shitty industry how could they!”

Well pretty soon the “they” will be millennials. Boomers are retiring or dying off, and there aren’t enough GenX to fill all the spots. Older millennials are in their early 40s now.

dogslayeggs ,

As an extremely avid wine drinker (and beer and cocktails), I’m good with this. That shit is too expensive. I just got back from tasting in Burgundy, and the range of prices is wild. One bottle from a specific vineyard costs literally $40,000, but a bottle from grapes 15 feet away costs $250. A bottle from a different producer from the exact same vineyard as the $250 bottle might charge $1000.

Can I tell the difference between a $50 bottle and a $250 bottle? Usually. But is it WORTH the difference? Usually not (but sometimes it is). There’s no chance I could tell enough of a difference between a $250 bottle and a $1000 bottle to make it worth it, regardless of me being unable to afford the more expensive one. I was actually afraid I was going to spoil myself from cheaper wine with this trip to Burgundy, but I ended up finding I’m happy with the wines I can afford and have easy access to.

Anyway, I’d be happy for the price of wine to come down.

otter ,

I hope you enjoyed your trip in other ways, considering the whole theme park song & dance is part of the show going back millennia : wine has always been exclusionary, elitist hype first.

dogslayeggs ,

I did. The trip was a blast. The restaurants are great, and the area is beautiful.

mjhelto ,

I’ve said it in a comment before but I can smoke all day and be 100% fine the next day. I can’t drink more than a few drinks without nearly dying the next morning.

Makes more sense to do weed, not alcohol, just to be able to function later or the following day.

tunetardis ,

mocktails and marijuana

I’m liking this as a potential album name.

otter ,

First track: “Djinn & Juice”

glimse ,

“Alcohol is finally getting the rep it deserves.”

Yes. Hell yeah. I hate how alcohol gets pushed as a “cool” thing to do when it’s so destructive. If anything, getting wasted should be looked down on, not celebrated.

otter ,

It always has been, whenever marketing isn’t involved. Hell, for example: not only does the US have nearly every single major holiday now orbit drinking as a core element, but long-standing racist tropes do too. It’s a whole thing, this “bread & circuses” they’ve got us plebs distracted by…

atocci ,

I just think most forms of wine have a very unpleasant taste.

Warl0k3 , (edited )

This has got to be part of it. IMO, most red wine tastes like boots, and while this is anecdotal, everyone I personally know in my age braket agrees. Non-anecdotally though, there’s so many other options for booze out there that are cheaper and it’s never been easier for a person to try multiple things until they find what they like. I personally think wine is so hyped up culturally in the US and the end product is just… spectacularly underwhelming. Like manky water. Why would I get that when I can spend the same money on 2x the volume of a drink I personally like?

The_v ,

The issue with wine is quality control is dependent many factors, weather, fertilizer management, water management, disease pressure, pest pressure, harvest conditions, unpredictable fermentations and the skill of the winemaker. The more variable the conditions the more unpredictable the finished wine product is.

A good bottle is really tough to make. A mediocre bottle is difficult to make. A poor bottle is what is usually made. I’ve never had an excellent bottle of wine and I think it is a myth. Pricing is mostly unrelated to the quality of the product as well.

When you usually put out a poor product people tend to avoid it unless there is a cultural expectation of low performance. What’s changing is the cultural acceptance of drinking horrible tasting stuff.

The wine industry in needs to adapt and put out a better product or else they will go under.

rustydomino ,
@rustydomino@lemmy.world avatar

You’re probably right. But many years ago we wife and I splurged at a fancy restaurant where a sommelier helped pair wines with our food and boy that was something else. When wine works it really works. The issue is that most of us don’t know how to pair wine and foods as well as a pro and it is definitely a luxury product for sure.

itsgroundhogdayagain ,

The good news is their vineyards are dying from climate change so they won’t have to worry about sales.

Bonesince1997 ,

Hangover. What’s a hangover? -marijuana user

ThePantser ,
@ThePantser@lemmy.world avatar

Agree but I still get next morning after effects like swimmy cloudy vision but it’s still way less invasive than alcohol.

corroded ,

I couldn’t care less what happens to the wine industry, but are people really using weed as an alternative? They’re completely different experiences. I enjoy drinking, but cannabis is in no way pleasurable to me at all.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • [email protected]
  • random
  • lifeLocal
  • goranko
  • All magazines