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TheDemonBuer ,
@TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world avatar

I think most Dems, especially those who are highly politically engaged and closely follow election news, are going to vote blue no matter who. So, I think Bernie is preaching to the choir here. I think the Dems who are worried about Biden are worried he doesn’t have enough support among independents, and they feel independents are much less likely to just vote for the Democrat, no matter who it is.

Now, could just any candidate replace Biden and automatically win back any of the independents he is believed to have lost? I don’t know. A lot of Dems seem to think that just about any other candidate would do better than Biden among independents right now, but I’m not so sure.

return2ozma OP ,
@return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

Remember, Bernie Sanders did FORTY TWO events for Hillary after she was the chosen Dem candidate. More events than even she did for her own campaign!

Then she had this to say about Bernie in her Hulu doc: x.com/bobby/status/1236349383890931713

blindbunny ,

What an ungrateful cunt. I don’t want to be in hell with that removed.

dactylotheca , (edited )
@dactylotheca@suppo.fi avatar

Calling her a cunt is unfair: she lacks both the warmth and the depth

casmael ,

Hear hear

misterdoctor ,

I don’t want to be in hell with that removed.

Dying to know which word got removed when “cunt” was perfectly acceptable.

blindbunny ,

B I T C H but even then I could be referencing a female dog.

misterdoctor ,

So, we’re allowed to say cunt but not The B Word™️?

blindbunny ,

That appears to be the case

h3mlocke ,

🫡

otp ,

Lmao…I guess lemmy.ml didn’t want to be unfair to Australians!

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Progressives need to learn this lesson: liberals will always shift the blame.

return2ozma OP ,
@return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

Correct

CosmicTurtle0 ,

Hillary, much like Trump, is a symptom of what is wrong with the Democrats. “It was her turn” spat in the face of people who were excited about a progressive candidate and made the whole primary a sham.

She was a terrible candidate. She was a bitter pill that many independents said “enough is enough” and voted third party or not voted at all.

I am deeply concerned that as the Republicans move more toward fascism, the left are not going to have great candidates. We’re going to get established, wealthy-class friendly candidates who are willing to throw crumbs at the working class. They’ll bitch and moan about how they are losing voters, never looking at themselves, never realizing that we are literally voting to just survive.

This election will be just like 2020. We aren’t voting for Biden. We’re voting against fascism.

And I’m personally getting fucking tired of Democrats seeing that as a win.

sukhmel , (edited )

I am deeply concerned that as the Republicans move more toward fascism, the left are not going to have great candidates

Well, the Republicans Democrats will have an option of being “less fascist party” by then. I feel like the future is not too bright, somehow

Edit: mixed the opposites somehow 🫠

Clinicallydepressedpoochie ,

Oh, now I understand. She’s like, a real housewife of DC.

JimVanDeventer ,

Hillary “I believe marriage is between a man and a woman” Clinton. Yeah. Keep on satisfying those poor, misguided progressives.

Facebones ,

"Dont like the choices? Get over yourselves"

  • Hillary like 6 months ago
Throw_away_migrator ,

I think the other concern is voter turnout/enthusiasm. The last presidential election had extremely high turnout. Even if voters (in swing states) don’t switch candidates but opt to stay home instead that could translate into a significant electoral problem too.

Habahnow ,

You do have a point that turn out Is important, but a potential replacement candidate isn’t guaranteed to increase turn out, they could be worse. And they would only have 4 months to try to fix things, which isn’t a lot of time.

JustEnoughDucks ,
@JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl avatar

Turnout is literally everything. It is literally more turnout = Democrat win literally every single election in america. Low turnout in 2016 still resulted in trump losing the popular vote. America’s voting system is messed up, but then so is UK’s parliamentary first past the post system and Belgium’s 6 governments.

fine_sandy_bottom ,

I think you might be missing the point though.

Those highly politically engaged Dem voters who will vote blue no matter who are bickering about whether Biden is the right choice, and the swing voters are paying attention.

To an undecided voter, it doesn’t inspire much confident to see that Biden’s own supporters don’t think he can do the job.

The bickering amongst those who will vote blue anyway is costing the votes from the undecideds that Biden so desperately needs.

cabron_offsets ,

Wishful thinking from Bernie. For fucks sake:

politics is showmanship, not an intellectual endeavor.

I fucking hate that, but it is the immutable truth.

You NEED a charismatic leader to win. Biden needs to fuck off.

I will ALWAYS cast my vote to most effectively suppress the republican traitor filth. But Biden’s a goner.

Varyk ,

Incorrect.

You are the reason conservatives win elections, because you tell Democrats not to vote for Gore because he’s boring or Hillary because she’s ill, or Biden because he’s old.

None of these irrelevant insults are stopping these people from doing their job.

cabron_offsets ,

Fuck off. I voted Gore and Hillary. You’re not helping the situation by burying your head in the sand.

Varyk ,

Loudly proclaiming a specific, unpopular fact is the opposite of burying my head in the sand.

You’re upset because you’ve been called out for burying your head in the sand.

The bandwagon is easy and comfortable and wrong here.

Bernie is right.

AmbiguousProps ,

Regardless of whether or not Bernie is right, you’re very wrong and helping no one.

Varyk , (edited )

Bernie is right, saying the same thing I’ve been saying for months.

I’m glad you focused on me helping people, that’s exactly what’s happening here.

Bullying works on a lot of people, but it sure slides off my back.

Vote Biden, a surprisingly progressive president that’s enacted great policies that have helped hundreds of millions of people.

Don’t worry about these conservative trolls, they’re afraid of their dwindling power.

Thanks, you accurate username you, I appreciate it!

lennybird ,
@lennybird@lemmy.world avatar

Don’t worry. They’re obviously gaslighting you. You undermined their entire argument and yet, they persist. How odd.

Ensign_Crab ,

It’s what they do.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

I will ALWAYS cast my vote to most effectively suppress the republican traitor filth.

And so you're going to vote for Biden, yes?

cabron_offsets ,

Yes. I think he should fuck off, but I’ll vote for him. I think he’d lose. I hope to be wrong.

JimSamtanko ,

I will ALWAYS cast my vote to most effectively suppress the republican traitor filth. But Biden’s a goner.

If by goner, you mean you’re not voting for him- then this is contradictory.

cabron_offsets ,

I will vote D no matter what.

JimSamtanko ,

That’s good to see. Thank you! Hopefully we can have some good things happen by next election and get someone better by then.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

That is terrifying to hear.

https://quokk.au/pictrs/image/181f2861-0249-4360-8c5b-d7fe9ac0699b.jpeg

cabron_offsets ,

I can’t consider voting for traitors. So repubs are off the table. I will always vote against them. They’re worthless filth.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

Right but it wasn’t that long ago that D was the hardcore racist party.

To blindly support a party no matter what is not something anyone should ever do or proclaim.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I think it’s pretty obvious that if the Democratic Party changed that drastically, the person you replied to would change their opinion. They are saying that because, at present, Republicans are far, far more dangerous.

Also, Democrats have been championing civil rights since JFK. Saying 1960 was not that long ago is silly. Suffering that 1866, which is when the poster you posted was made, is not that long ago when it comes to American politics is not even rational.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

So why don’t people say that instead of such extremist language like “no matter what”?

Words matter. Blindly supporting or pretending you will blindly support a shit party because the other is worse is in no way shape or form a good thing.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Clearly just to upset you personally. No one else seems to have this issue.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

Well because this community is pretty overwhelmingly blue maga I’m not really surprised.

Lots of people have issues with it, you just constantly ignore the voices and wonder “Why is Biden struggling to get voters?”

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

“Blue MAGA” is not a thing and there is not a chance you’ll turn it into one.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

I don’t invent it, and it’s already out there in public usage and has been for months.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Sure it has. Many people are saying so.

KazuyaDarklight ,
@KazuyaDarklight@lemmy.world avatar

Literally the first time I’ve seen it. So not something I’d call a popular term.

otp ,

I interpreted what they said as “in this election”.

And even then, I also knew (from context) that they wouldn’t continue to vote Democrat if the party changed so drastically.

Words matter, but so do context and inferences/implications

TrickDacy ,

Unless they have eyes ears and a brain

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Are you making the ludicrous suggestion that the Democratic Party of 1866 is the same as the one today?

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

No, I’m making the suggestion that D can and has changed in the past and that supporting them blindly forever is not wise.

Biden was fighting for segregation at the end of the day. This isn’t 1866 history, the Southern Strategy happened in the 1960s

catloaf ,

They never said forever.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

I will vote D no matter what.

Oh I’m sorry, are you saying there is a “what” to make them stop? Because they clearly said no matter what, which is blind fanaticism.

If they had said a sane remark like “I’ll vote D as long as it’s the better option” I wouldn’t have commented.

Blue MAGA is a very real phenomenon.

WamGams ,

In the current context, blue no matter who is the correct position.

There is no reason to assume that the person was stating blue no matter who regardless of all other future and hypothetical situations which are not currently relevant."

What is Blue MAGA?

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

Blue MAGA is the Dem fanatics who utter phrases like “blue no matter who”. Much the same as there are those who will blindly support Trump no matter what, Dems have the same problem.

WamGams ,

In the current context, blue no matter who is the only appropriate in response to the opposition being literal fascists.

Unbunch your undies.

cabron_offsets ,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Who said forever?

    Deceptichum ,
    @Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

    The person who said nothing will change their mind?

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Do you take everything everyone says absolutely literally? That must make things very hard for you.

    Deceptichum ,
    @Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

    Flyingsquid, there’s a lot that can be said about you. Let’s not devolve into personal attacks here.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    You literally just called me a bigot in another thread.

    Deceptichum ,
    @Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

    You and I both know I never once “literally” called you a bigot.

    There is no need to outright make up shit.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Fine. You just made it explicitly clear that you were suggesting I was a bigot.

    Doesn’t make you any less hypocritical.

    I’m still waiting to hear who I’m bigoted against, by the way.

    Deceptichum ,
    @Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

    No, you are literally the only person in that thread calling yourself a bigot. Like literally your own words.

    Anyway this is going completely off topic. I’m going to stop replying to you now.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    This is what you said to me.

    This reeks of “Black people shouldn’t let racist words affect them”

    That is clearly calling me a bigot and you’re not going to gaslight your way out of it.

    todd_bonzalez ,

    Imagine digging back 158 years to find an example of a Democrat being racist, and thinking you have a point.

    lennybird ,
    @lennybird@lemmy.world avatar

    Exactly. I cannot fucking believe he can say with a straight face that it’s not an entertainment contest. It’s the biggest American Idol contest there is and sure as shit isn’t a job interview.

    xmunk ,

    It seems like the establishment is hell bent on making the choice Biden or Harris and Harris might be the only person less likely to win.

    grrgyle ,

    This Bernie guy seems pretty energetic and popular… why not put him on the ballot?

    derpgon ,

    I’d definitely do a double take. A good political decision? In the USA?

    iAvicenna ,
    @iAvicenna@lemmy.world avatar

    Let’s see, just to name a few: openly against civil gun ownership, openly against expensive private healthcare, openly against zionism and Israel’s occupation of Gaza. This pisses off a lot of very powerful people, so probably not gonna happen

    catloaf ,

    Or stop bickering and replace him ASAP.

    But really, I don’t think this is bickering. I think it’s an intentionally slow drip of news to get people more receptive to the idea of replacing him with Kamala, so that it’s not a bomb dropping all of a sudden, which would likely freak out a bunch of voters and cause them to lose votes. Boil the frog slowly and there’s less of a splash.

    CleoTheWizard ,
    @CleoTheWizard@lemmy.world avatar

    Well honestly it’s going to be a splash either way and the sooner they replace him, the better. Kamala is going to need more time to cook with and the sooner she can get out there, the sooner she can challenge Trump to a debate and flip this country around.

    Cocodapuf ,

    I think this is the exact idea that Bernie is warning against.

    iAmTheTot ,

    Rare case of disagreeing with you, Bernie.

    lennybird ,
    @lennybird@lemmy.world avatar

    Yep. But let’s explore this further under the hood.

    • Nobody of the progressive caucus can break ranks lest that be used against the party as a wedge-drive issue by operatives later, whether Biden stays in or not.
    • Bernie was essentially promised a high level committee position if he traded falling in line with Biden. This his returning of the favor.
    • Calls for Biden to step down will be completely ineffective from the progressive coalition anyway. Biden is a centrist and doesn’t hold much respect for them. The people who matter are the likes of Clyburn and Pelosi.
    shiroininja ,

    I have an unpopular opinion. Swapping candidates a couple months from election will look really disorganized and even weaker than keeping him. Especially to swing voters. And it’ll be rushed. I doubt the replacement will be well known, so you expect me to get to know, learn who they are and develop a platform in a couple months? I think they’d lose too.

    It’s too late. The spineless centrists controlling the party waffled too long and I bet they cost the election again. Just like in 2016. I’m really disappointed in the Democratic Party and how it’s condensed it’s power more towards the top and quite frankly, am tired of their muted response to things like project 2025 until months before the election. It’s been around since. Before trump was elected, but without a catchy name. I passed around the leaked documents on it in 2017.

    I’m just reminded of ‘Baby I’m an Anarchist’ by Against me! Lately. I’m not an Anarchist, but I feel the lyrics about the my fellow spineless liberals

    dhork ,

    Swapping candidates would look really, really bad… unless he comes up and says “I had a talk with my doctor, he says I’ve developed a chronic condition that I didn’t know about past year. I can’t do it anymore, but here, vote for my VP, who you all already voted for once anyway, and would take over anyway if this thing kills me”.

    He can leave out that the chronic condition is just notgonnawinatall, and his doctor is also his pollster.

    catloaf ,

    I think that’s why they’re floating it now. They’re getting people primed to accept someone as the replacement that they already recognize. (My money is on Kamala Harris.)

    infinitevalence ,
    @infinitevalence@discuss.online avatar

    They are disorganized and always will be because they are not a hegemon like the Republicans.

    iAmTheTot ,

    Other countries have their entire election cycles in a few months. It’s a joke to think it’s too late for Biden to drop out.

    Thteven ,
    @Thteven@lemmy.world avatar

    He understands the two party system we’re left with. If we don’t back the democratic candidate we will be fucked by the 30% of the population that wants Cheeto Messiah in the white house.

    Rooskie91 ,

    Oh, haha, first time trying to unify the left, huh?

    DragonTypeWyvern ,

    He’s just done with our shenanigans

    TropicalDingdong ,

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/baadb88e-a1ba-4f67-bc80-111152c795fb.gif

    sparkle ,

    Italians:https://lemm.ee/pictrs/image/3246a507-47f5-4942-ad29-380db1d6a77c.jpeg

    maniii ,

    Drumpf is a living survivor martyr. Nothing is now gonna hold anything back. Every thing is now going to hit the fan.

    JasonDJ ,

    Honestly second thing I thought of when I saw it. First was that it was staged.

    Milk_Sheikh ,

    A thought I haven’t seen offered much, but could give Biden an ego-soothing role instead of being put out to political pasture - a Harris:Biden ticket.

    She gets to be the energetic go-getter at the front (that the Maga hate-oil salesmen are shrieking about atm) while Biden can play the ‘elder statesman’ role of advice and experience to Kamala instead of running himself. You defuse a lot of the competency/decline arguments against Biden, and gird against one of Harris’s biggest threats - her lack of international experience.

    Kamala is not a political unknown, but Biden is losing/equal right now to Trump with the DNC money & publicity machine working for him the last eight years. I’d argue Harris has a better shot if those efforts are swung her way. I don’t like Harris, but needn’t convince me to vote team blue - it’s the ~9% undecided we need to convince.

    akakunai ,

    I mean, this isn’t an awful idea…

    The real world logistics probably make this more complicated than implied, but I don’t mind the intent.

    abracaDavid ,

    It’s not a good idea because Kamala is pretty unpopular.

    She comes off as out of touch and condescending, just like another certain candidate that lost to Trump in 2016.

    akakunai ,

    I agree, she’s not the candidate I’d want leading the dems—far from it. But people are used to voting between a Giant Douche and a Turd Sandwich as their president. Biden is something different, more agreeable than some other candidates the Dems have run. But people are seriously concerned about voting for a man who’s mental acuity is declining rapidly towards senility and very possibly will not live through 2028.

    Plus, I haven’t read too far into it but I’ve heard that only Kamala would be able to use the Biden/Harris campaign war-chest. It’s sad as hell that that is so important, but it is nonetheless.

    orcrist ,

    We saw mass media and the Dems pull the same thing in 2004. Decide a candidate is unelectable, before the election, and then make it happen. What happened to letting the voters decide? What happened to democracy? Meh.

    It was sick then, and it is sick now. If the man is too old, OK, but we all knew his age a year ago. To pretend to be surprised and concerned now is laughable.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    What happened to letting the voters decide?

    “Everyone needs to get out and vote!”

    voters start bickering over who to vote for

    “NOT LIKE THAT!”

    If the man is too old, OK, but we all knew his age a year ago.

    Which is why its crazy he didn’t have any kind of primary contender. Hell, its crazy he didn’t just wrap this at one term and pass the torch to any of a number of popular and highly competent governors.

    orcrist ,

    I totally agree with you. My speculation is that people in power in the DNC didn’t want to push for a younger candidate because then that candidate would immediately seize a lot of power. Perhaps they were disagreeing on who would be the best person, and they figured that some old man is low risk because he’s going to retire soon enough anyway. But that’s all blind speculation. A lot of what the DNC does happens behind closed doors.

    Varyk ,

    Right his whole life, correct here too.

    return2ozma OP ,
    @return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

    He also told supporters to vote for Hillary in 2016 and Biden in 2020. But… he does tell voters to make up their own decision

    Varyk ,

    I agree with all three sentiments.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    And he was right both times.

    Vendul ,

    Bernie or bust!

    WatDabney ,

    I'm with him 100% on the first bit - at this point, the single most important thing the Dems have to do is stop bickering.

    As for the rest, at this point I don't even much care. I can see arguments both for and against in both directions - either choice is going to involve some risk but either choice can be made to succeed.

    So the important thing, and really the ONLY important thing, is to pick one and run with it. Stop with the dilly-dallying and the second-guessing and the bitching and moaning and hand-wringing and make a choice and stick with it, so we can focus ALL of our attention on pounding those fucking fascist traitors' dicks into the dirt.

    SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

    It’s nice to see the majority of the democrats are reasonable people and will continue backing Biden.

    distantsounds , (edited )

    tbh, I don’t think reasonable people would think an 80yr old is the best fit to run a country. Edit: Especially after publicly shitting the bed on multiple occasions

    SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

    Isn’t he 81?

    distantsounds ,

    Idk it just looks like one candle at this point

    fireHazard

    SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

    Jeez, I’ve had smaller bonfires.

    return2ozma OP ,
    @return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

    Yes, he’s 81. He’ll be 82 November 20th. 86 at the end of his second term if he’s re-elected.

    SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

    When he’s re-elected.

    return2ozma OP ,
    @return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s looking a little scary chief…

    FaceDeer ,
    @FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

    These are reasonable people who at this point are faced with a choice between that 80 year old and Trump.

    The Democrats could have run someone else, should have run someone else, didn't run someone else. So those are now the two options.

    distantsounds ,

    The convention is a month away and plenty of time to retire the Rocinante for a better horse

    FaceDeer , (edited )
    @FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

    He already has enough delegates to win the convention, as is my understanding of the odd way the Democratic party makes this decision.

    distantsounds ,

    Biden can announce that he is not seeking re-election. Release the delegates and it can be decided at the convention, as it officially is done. The DNC refusing to allow proper primaries makes this much messing now, but it is the only viable path forward without trump. It’s the policies and platform that are important and anyone who would vote D knows that. The left doesn’t want a king, but someone who can champion their ideals.

    JimSamtanko ,

    But a 78 year old is?

    cabron_offsets ,

    That’s not the question at hand. Trump should die in a fire, but that’s not what this is about.

    JimSamtanko ,

    That is what this is about. Because if everyone that is wanting people to not vote for the 81 year old get their way- then we’re getting the 78 year old.

    THESE ARE OUR CHOICES. it’s too late in the game to call an audible.

    AmbiguousProps ,

    It’s not too late for Biden to do an official act to mar-a-lago

    JimSamtanko ,

    It is ABSOLUTELY too late.

    iAmTheTot ,

    No, it’s not too late. Biden is not even officially the democratic nominee yet, the convention hasn’t even happened yet. The rest of the world has an entire election cycle that lasts like two months. The election is still almost four months away.

    FaceDeer ,
    @FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

    The US has an election cycle that runs much longer than most other places in the world.

    I'm seeing a lot of people downvoting comments that are making simple statements of fact about how the American election system works. It may not be the way people want it to work, but that's what they've got. Downvoting such comments doesn't change it.

    JimSamtanko ,

    Thank you!

    iAmTheTot ,

    The US does not need to, is my point. Four months is more than enough time to introduce a new candidate.

    FaceDeer ,
    @FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

    I know it doesn't need to.

    It does anyway.

    There are a lot of things the US probably should be doing differently about its political system, but they aren't, and that's the world we live in.

    iAmTheTot ,

    Well I for one am not afraid of demanding better, so you go ahead and accept it’s “too late” and I’ll keep insisting it very much is not.

    FaceDeer ,
    @FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

    You keep steering wildly toward the cliff edge, I'll keep suggesting that maybe this isn't the best time for that.

    distantsounds ,

    Haha, no. Many other problems with that cesspool.

    HubertManne ,

    I agree. The asked. Biden responded. Move on. The ticket has a vp. Its fine.

    EnderWiggin ,

    Fucking thank you, Bernie. Glad someone with a spine said it.

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