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retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

Well, that’s on him, and so is his loss and all the consequences that come from it. All to try and satisfy his ego. Insanity.

JimSamtanko ,

Could be that he’s trying to save America from falling into the hands of a fascist traitor to his country.

He sad before that he wasn’t planning on running again unless it’s to keep Trump from taking over.

Now that that Trump is trying to take over- it’s his duty to protect America. And so he’s running. I know this upsets the bots and MAGA trolls, but that’s where we are now.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

If he was trying to save American democracy he’d step down, this is about his bloated sense of self importance.

He’s going to lose if he runs. He’s the single worst option for Democrats.

JimSamtanko ,

ROFL… you seem quite certain of this. Care to share what you know that the rest of us don’t?

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

No, the rest of us know, you don’t know because you haven’t been paying attention. Polling shows Biden losing by almost 10 points. Even Kamala Harris has better numbers.

So if you actually wanted the best chance, you’d be wanting him to step down. But I’m guessing you don’t.

JimSamtanko ,

Polls…. ROFL. The person that is suggesting someone that’s not even running to be the one to defeat Trump…. believes in polls.

How fitting.

TropicalDingdong ,

How it feel to be wrong, tto have been wrong the entire time, and have every body know it but you knowing it.

JimSamtanko ,

Who says I’m wrong? Your fellow bots? I’m certain they don’t count for anything. And speaking of being wrong….

How about we compare mod logs to see who’s had posts removed for misinformation and trolling, shall we? I’m putting my money on you winning that one.

So… I ask you:

How it feel to be wrong, tto have been wrong the entire time, and have every body know it but you knowing it?

TropicalDingdong ,

Its about how well your world view predicts the future.

Yours doesn’t.

Realistically, you are the one whose been putting out the misinformation and has been trolling; its what history will show and how this will all shake out.

You are in the wrong; they are in the wrong.

JimSamtanko ,

And someone who’s constantly having comments removed and banned is the voice of reason here?

Everyone knows what you’re up to. You’re not fooling anyone.

TropicalDingdong ,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    JimSamtanko ,

    Oh the fucking irony.

    TropicalDingdong ,

    You don’t get it yet, but we’ll all be able to point to you, defending the indefensible, this entire time.

    History will show you demanding we stick with a losing strategy much longer than we needed to.

    JimSamtanko ,

    Again, you’re not fooling anyone man. We all know why you’re here.

    TropicalDingdong ,

    This is kind of amazing to watch.

    Whats it like when your entire worldview collapses in on its self to find you’ve been wrong the entire time?

    Historically, I refused to engage with Trump cult members in any way, so I don’t have a view into this mentality.

    Whats it like?

    JimSamtanko ,

    Look a that! Upvotes within a minute of posting! That has to be legit!

    TropicalDingdong ,

    I mean, this conversation is happening in public. People see you being, and having been, entirely on the wrong side of all this, in such a way that you’ve damaged our ability to stop Trump. We can fix this, but we have to act now. We’re able to fix it in-spite of you, not because of you. You are still blocking our ability to stop Trump.

    You’ve gaslit yourself into a state of complete denial and delusion. And yes, I’ve been caught the brunt of the down votes from other people as delusional as yourself, for months; years. But they were wrong, and you were wrong, and I’ve been right this entire time. My worldview accurately predicts future states. Yours (and theirs) doesn’t.

    JimSamtanko ,

    Wow… such quick upvotes bud! You must have a huge fan!

    And again, we all know what you’re up to. No one believes you’re here in any good faith capacity. Your mod log is evidence of your sad attempts to troll.

    TropicalDingdong ,

    Or maybe it’s you that’s bad faith.

    JimSamtanko ,

    This certainly adds a lot to the discussion. Gonna go ahead and end this here. You’ve outed yourself for what you are clearly enough for my taste. I see no reason to continue.

    TropicalDingdong ,

    Kid, everyone here knows every one else here.

    We all know you are blue MAGA. Every one knows your blue MAGA. And until last week, there was a significant chance you were going to force us off a cliff with Joe Biden at the helm.

    THANKFULLY we’re able to fix that, no thanks to you.

    JimSamtanko ,

    Every comment you make just tells on yourself. We know what you’re doing here. You’re not clever.

    TropicalDingdong ,

    Every comment you make just tells on yourself. We know what you’re doing here. You’re not clever.

    You just don’t get it do you. You’ve lost yourself in a narcissistic self delusion. Its sad. But I do appreciate you all giving us a glimpse into how these kinds of cults form. Its important for us as a community so we can inoculate ourselves. Through your sacrifice, you’ve done us a service.

    But it is sad.

    SaltySalamander ,

    Everyone that disagrees with you isn't a bot. You know this, right?

    JimSamtanko ,

    I absolutely know this. Which is why I don’t accuse everyone that disagrees with me. But if you’re trying to say that there aren’t bad actors among the far left (like the one was responding to) then you’re either blind, or one of them.

    Count042 ,

    There it is.

    The automatic assumption anyone disagreeing with you is a bot.

    That last desperate cry of the boomer.

    JimSamtanko ,

    There it is.

    The automatic assumption that some equals all.

    The annoyingly frequent desperate cry of the uninformed and easily manipulated.

    Count042 ,

    OK boomer.

    JimSamtanko ,

    Oh no. A .ml kid called me a boomer! I may never recover. Hope Medicare will cover the hospital stay.

    Squiddly ,

    What is this 2005? Been so long since I’ve seen “ROFL” lol

    BassaForte ,
    @BassaForte@lemmy.world avatar

    ZOMGWTFBBQ

    Count042 ,

    You.

    What you don’t know.

    forrgott ,

    No, that’s a blatantly selfish and ego driven motivation. “I’m too important to waste my time on the presidency unless I get to be seen as some kinda savior.”

    But he really has absolutely no chance of being remembered that way. Even if he wins. Especially if he wins. He has allowed pride to rob him of any chance of having a legacy with remembering. Ironic I think…

    JimSamtanko ,

    Maybe it’s that he knows he can win. It’s called confidence. I get that everyone wants the democratic vote divided, but some of us just want to keep Trump from winning.

    When a disease is killing its host within a few months, you don’t spend years trying to cure the disease, you try and buy time by treating the damage so as to keep the just alive while working on a cure.

    This is something that shouldn’t need to be explained.

    Chainweasel , (edited )

    Good.
    This is just the “I won’t vote for Biden because Israel refuses to sign a ceasefire” bullshit all over again.
    Notice how literally none of these people have any problem whatsoever with any of Trump’s gaffes?
    They have no problem whatsoever with Trump’s policies. They have no problem whatsoever with project 2025. They have no problem at all that Donald Trump is 79 years old.
    But they have a huge fucking problem with the fact that Joe Biden is two and a half years older than Donald Trump.
    You would think if they actually gave a damn about the welfare of the country they would be concerned about Donald Trump in the least, yet crickets.

    testfactor ,

    I think it might be a bit of a bold assumption that everyone who thinks Biden is too old to do an effective job and should step aside is a huge Trump supporter.

    There are plenty of people who hate Trump with a passion that thinks Biden isn’t up to the task of winning this election.

    JimSamtanko ,

    And I’m sure that’s not who they’re talking about. We all know there are many people her that suggest that no one vote for Biden. I’m sure most can name them.

    xmunk ,

    Sure, there absolutely are bad faith arguers but there is also a significant slice of the population that is deathly afraid that Biden will pull a fucking Hillary. He has worked with the DNC to effectively eliminate any other candidates from entering the primaries and if his fucking hubris gets Trump elected he should bear all the blame.

    JimSamtanko ,

    What other candidates were trying to enter the primaries?

    xmunk ,

    You mean which candidates publicly announced an intent to challenge a sitting president in a primary and torpedo their political career?

    JimSamtanko ,

    So then how did he keep them from running? You need to choose a lane and stick with it. Either he purposefully stopped them from running, or they chose not to because of Status-quo.

    xmunk ,

    He didn’t invite challengers or step back in advance of the primary. There is such a thing as soft power and he used it to make sure there wasn’t a real primary.

    JimSamtanko ,

    He doesn’t dictate the who runs. You said yourself. Career suicide, remember?

    We’re done with this now.

    xmunk ,

    Yea, that’s an immensely naive view of the world. It’s got real “bootstraps” energy: “Why don’t those politicians who are trying to enact change just get ostracized from their party and the funding base while facing up against a multi-billion dollar political machine that will grind them into dust and then primary them for their disloyalty at the earliest opportunity.”

    You’re right. They’re absolute cowards. They should make more principled stances that hamstring them from actually improving lives - its what Marjorie Taylor Greene would do and we love her. /s

    JimSamtanko ,

    Chose a lane man. When you have, come back and we can discuss this. Otherwise, as I said…. We’re done here.

    Chainweasel ,

    Not who you were replying to, but they’re out in fucking numbers today aren’t they?
    Jesus Christ it’s like the have a whole troll farm dedicated to Lemmy.
    And they can’t come up with a better argument than “BiDeN oLd Hur Hur”

    JimSamtanko ,

    Yep. They’re usually quiet a day or so after something happens, then the get their marching orders to go forth and sew discontent via misinformation. There’s also a shit-ton of vote manipulation happening.

    We all need to be calling this shit out.

    davel ,
    @davel@lemmy.ml avatar

    The word you’re looking for is sow. They sow discontent, you Blue Anon Kool-Aid drinker.

    xmunk ,

    Just FYI dude, I’m a real person and accusations of astroturfing are completely unproductive to actually having a conversation.

    You added absolutely nothing of value to this thread.

    xmunk ,

    I did chose a lane - you’re just engaging in bad faith conversation tactics. You consider my position to be invalid out of an apparent misled belief that I’m just trolling and therefore are just repeating dead lines to shut down the conversation.

    I emigrated up to Canada so I’m fine but my mother is a retiree in the US and a staunch Biden supporter. The debate has her terrified that she’ll need to pack up and leave because, to most of us, Biden looks incapable of winning this election. I voted for Hillary even after she used the DNC to muscle out Sanders but she was a deeply flawed candidate and she lost. Biden seems to be on the same trajectory, an establishment darling that is unpopular and struggling to excite the voting base.

    Whichever Dem is on the ballot in November is getting my vote but it really looks like Biden is going to fuck us all and get Trump elected again.

    FlowVoid , (edited )

    When has any candidate ever invited challengers?

    Candidates don’t “step back”, challengers step up. If nobody wants to because the candidate appears certain to win the primary, don’t blame the candidate.

    Buffalox ,

    Yes, this is scary, the media are basically all working for Trump, even those who claim the opposite. But they are falling for the Trump foghorn, just as much as any average Joe, where the media are supposed to be professionals and above that.

    ghostdoggtv ,

    Falling for NOTHING the trump campaign is going to give the media millions of dollars for advertising spots. The media have a vested interest in keeping the horse race going.

    JimSamtanko ,

    I’ve been pointing all of this out for a while now. Ask any of them about these issues and they have no answer at all. They just divert the discussion back to gEnOciDe jOe.

    Everyone needs to hold these trolls accountable for what they’d say. Ask them to answer why they seem to not care about Trump and what he’s promised to do.

    ghostdoggtv ,

    There’s rational criticism to be against Biden but most the critical mass of outrage over his debate performance is hysterical * and takes air time from valid concerns regarding his ability to preserve the Union. *

    ShellMonkey ,
    @ShellMonkey@lemmy.socdojo.com avatar

    Something I’ve noticed is that if something is posted with a positive view of Biden there’s a fairly consistent pattern where it gets up voted initially but as the day gets later and more into the daytime hours of your Russia/China side of the world the down votes start to come in. One can speculate on that for what it’s worth I guess…

    Chainweasel ,

    You mean like how the one guy who disagrees and thinks Biden should step down went up 8 points in the last 2 minutes and we all went down?
    Yeah I noticed that too.

    Zaktor ,

    I’m a real person downvoting you because you’re delusional. This is a massively wide concern reflected in polls and being expressed by Democratic cheerleaders like Pod Save America. I have a hard time believing any of you live in a world so insulated that you think this is just trolls and media manipulation.

    ShellMonkey ,
    @ShellMonkey@lemmy.socdojo.com avatar

    I know Finland isn’t exactly friendly with Russia, but the fact that you argue this from an instance run by someone a hop and a skip from Moscow is a beautiful irony…

    All trolls, no, but given the notorious prevalence of media manipulation seen out of the region it’s a given that some not insignificant portion of the loudest voices are here looking to cause trouble.

    Zaktor ,

    Wait, do you actually think everyone on a Finnish instance is from Finland? That’s really really stupid.

    queue ,
    @queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    I’ve had people think since my mastodon account ends in todon.eu they think I’m like a secret agent, but too stupid to notice that the .eu would give me away. It’s Qanon-level of thinking, of how there’s secret clues everywhere that only they can see but the shadow cabal left them there for the truthers to find.

    Zaktor ,

    All the best Russian influence agents join servers that are in close proximity to their office. I moved from lemmy.world to sopuli after .world’s performance was unreliable because they seemed to have a reasonable block list and were in the goldilocks zone of neither too big nor too small. And my mastodon account is hosted on an EU server because I don’t think the US has good data privacy rules. Turns out internet services still work when it’s overnight in their home time zone.

    FlowVoid ,

    The only polls that matter are Biden vs Trump, and those haven’t really changed post-debate.

    Zaktor ,

    Sentiment polls absolutely do matter when the question is whether the sentiment is only coming from trolls and biased media.

    retrospectology , (edited )
    @retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s not good. Biden stands the worst chance against Trump, which is why concern trolls are so desperate to shut down and dismiss any discussion of replacing him.

    xmunk ,

    No, it isn’t. Biden is letting his fucking pride erode our chances of avoiding a dictatorship.

    We’ll see how future appearances are but he was incoherent at the debate and if that keeps up it makes another Trump presidency much more likely.

    Also, fuck off for blindly assuming what everyone else thinks and assuming everyone who disagrees with you is arguing in bad faith.

    KoboldCoterie ,
    @KoboldCoterie@pawb.social avatar

    We saw this recently with Ruth Bater Ginsberg, too, unfortunately - she could have chosen to step down when Obama was president and secured a democrat nominee in the SCOTUS for 50+ years, but she didn’t, and now look where we are.

    xmunk ,

    We’re also, unfortunately, seeing this with Sotomayor right now. Though she may also be holding out because she assumes the senate would just block her replacement.

    She’s an awesome jurist but she has serious health issues.

    TheAlbatross , (edited )

    Most of the people I hear who are bothered by Biden’s chances aren’t talking about Trump’s policies, age or lack of cognitive ability not because they support Trump, quite the opposite. They are scared of a second Trump presidency and are scared that the DNC will drop the ball again, fumble the election by sticking with a poorly liked candidate and they’ll have to suffer the consequences of America veering headfirst towards fascism. There’s no point to mentioning Trump’s similar or more dire issues, because he was never an option to them to begin with.

    I don’t have faith that the DNC actually cares about the looming threat of fascism, the threat to civil liberties, etc, I think they saw how much in donations they got during the last Trump presidency and the surge in popularity even their most milquetoast center left candidates got and they think they can ride the wave for 4 years.

    Bidens admin has done a lot of good and the DNC has been dogshit at demonstrating that with effective messaging. He’s also done a lot of things I find abhorrent and in a just world, neither candidate should be eligible as they’d be locked away in The Hague. But that isn’t the case, this is America, and I think the powers that be are willing to risk the election to save face.

    Viking_Hippie ,

    “I won’t vote for Biden because Israel refuses to sign a ceasefire” bullshit

    Fun fact: support in the form of weapons and political cover from the governments of the UK, Germany, and ESPECIALLY the US is why the fascist apartheid regime hasn’t been FORCED to stop the genocide several months ago.

    He knows this and even though the majority of his prospective voters are IMPLORING him to stop participating in a genocide in their name, even though he KNOWS that it’s likely to cost him the election and even though he KNOWS that it’s likely to be the last one ever if he does lose, he still refuses.

    He’s putting his Zionist ideology and his stubborn inability to admit fault ahead of not just Gazan lives, but also the survival of American democracy and the universality of international law.

    Even KAMALA would be a better choice than someone so completely out of touch with and devoid of respect for the ideals and institutions he’s supposed to be protecting.

    Still better than Trump, though, so we just have to keep pretending that the old war criminal is perfect, lest the Blue No Matter Who apparatchiks lob spurious allegations of fascist loyalties at us 😮‍💨🤦

    OccamsTeapot ,

    This is just the “I won’t vote for Biden because Israel refuses to sign a ceasefire” bullshit all over again.

    This is incredibly disingenuous. More like “Because he is arming, supporting and diplomatically protecting a genocidal government.” We know it’s not his fault Israel are assholes, it’s the stuff he is doing that is the problem.

    They have no problem whatsoever with Trump’s policies. They have no problem whatsoever with project 2025.

    My brother in christ why do you think we want Biden to actually be a good candidate?

    Genocide supporting, doddering old Biden is a much better candidate than the unhinged far right felon that wouldn’t know the truth if it pissed on his face, BUT HE NEEDS TO WIN THE ELECTION FIRST. If being not as bad as trump was enough Hilary would have won.

    It is precisely because I hate trump so much that I want Biden to be better. If you are in a debate with Trump and most people watching think you lost, you fucked up big time. The pigeon you’re playing chess with might have shit on the board and felt like he won, but you should have at least done enough so that the audience watching this didn’t fucking agree with him.

    blazera ,
    @blazera@lemmy.world avatar

    Notice how literally none of these people have any problem whatsoever with any of Trump’s gaffes?

    What? Which people?

    Trumps a client of a pedophile sex trafficking ring that had his dealer assassinated. He built his political career on the racist conspiracy that Obama was born in Kenya, colluded with Russia to become president, appointed climate change deniers to head the EPA and Dept of Energy, appointed public education deniers to head the Dept of Education, oil isnt bad enough for the environment for him so he endorses coal, was antivax before republicans thought it was cool, and nothing else on this world is closer to convincing me of the Bible than the idea that Trump is the antichrist.

    But no trump supporter is going to see this

    CaptDust ,

    Ah! We got some footage from the announcement

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