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After Supreme Court immunity ruling, Biden draws sharp contrast with Trump on obeying rule of law

President Joe Biden warned Monday that a Supreme Court ruling granting presidents broad immunity from prosecutionwould make an unchecked Republican Donald Trump “more emboldened to do whatever he wants” if he regains the White House in November’s election.

Biden, under intense pressure after his disastrous debate performance against Trump last week, urged Americans to think carefully about their election decision and signaled he had no intention of dropping out of the race.

Criticizing the decision by the court’s conservative majority — which all but guarantees Trump will not face trial in Washington ahead of the November election over his actions during the violent riot on Jan. 6, 2021 — Biden said it now fell to the American people “to do what the courts should have been willing to do but will not.

“The American people have to render judgment about Donald Trump’s behavior.”

Hello_there ,

This speech was a capitulation by Biden. He basically said 'no, executive isn't going to check the judiciary.' His response is 'people need to vote's? What? Where's the vision or game plan to overturning this?
It's so fucking simple to grasp the shortfalls here.

Xanis ,

I’m hoping he’s just giving us a chance to correct this. That will do good in the long run if we manage it. Should we fail it is also my hope that he uses his remaining time in the chair to abuse those executive powers to all hell.

In reality, yes, he could do more right now.

Grandwolf319 ,

Why would he do that though?

Biden is the status quo president, why would he be a martyr?

Anamnesis ,

Drop. The. Fuck. Out. You are going to fucking lose you geriatric fuck and SCOTUS just ensured that Trump will use his power to be a dictator when he’s elected.

TBi ,

If people will let a fascist win just because Biden is “too old” then they deserve their fate!

ToastedPlanet ,

I believe people are going to do the right thing this November. We need to be vocal and vote. But no matter what happens, no one deserves fascism. We’re all still people.

lolcatnip ,

Fascists deserve fascism, but they deserve to be the victims of it.

ToastedPlanet ,

At the core of self-destructive ideologies like fascism is the idea that we are all better off dead. By asserting that anyone can deserve fascism we are agreeing with that idea and we are conceding the idea that life is worth living.

lolcatnip ,

Something something paradox of tolerance.

ToastedPlanet ,

We should defend ourselves from fascists who break the social contract of tolerance. However, if we preemptively target individuals based on ideology we end up with the same problem as the fascists.

Organizing people into a hierarchy based on political ideology has the same issues as a hierarchy based on any other metric. Each time the least desirable group is removed from the population the next group in the hierarchy is at the bottom. By the logic that the most far-right group deserves extermination, we eventually remove every group of people. Even the furthest-left group eventually becomes the furthest-right group by process of elimination.

lolcatnip , (edited )

Hard disagree. You’re making an invalid slippery slope argument. Eliminating fascists is self-defense. Eliminating other groups is not and therefore not comparable. The problem with fascists isn’t that they kill people; it’s that they systematically target out groups for elimination without regard to whether they are dangerous—and in fact they tend to target the least dangerous people first.

Also now that I think about it, eliminating fascists was your idea. I think that if they were to be eliminated, they would deserve it, but I wasn’t actually advocating it. What they need is to be kept far away from any kind of power or influence.

ToastedPlanet ,

It’s not self-defense if the fascists haven’t done anything violent or destructive. Unfortunately the fascists in the US have been doing violent and destructive things and are close to completing their takeover of our democracy. As an exmaple, there were January 6th rioters and organizers who were arrested and imprisoned. However, there are plenty of people who would meet criteria that would make them varying degrees of fascists, but haven’t done anything yet.

There are overt fascists who espouse fascist ideology and talking points, but haven’t performed acts of domestic terrorism like January 6th. There are people who want their prejudices validated and want to return to an imaged past. There are people who have bought into the lie that minorities are the cause of their problems instead of systemic issues. There are people in the Republican Party who are neo-cons who want to work with the fascists. There are people who shout both sides further to the left of the neo-cons. There are neo-liberals who want to keep things the same despite our downward spiral into fascism.

A christo-fascist regime is being built primarily thanks to the actions and inactions of people using our system without directly hurting anyone or destroying any infrastructure. The fascist movement is spreading ideas, violating democratic norms, upending the guard rails in our democracy, filling the government with like minded individuals, and in the case of Trump, violating the law and stalling out the court system. The Supreme Court ended the rule of law on July 1st, 2024, not by shooting people, but with the stoke of a pen.

The fascists build the system to target groups for elimination in a way that doesn’t directly harm anyone until the system is in place. Your argument calls for the elimination of people based on political ideology.

they tend to target the least dangerous people first.

The enemies of fascists are at the same time both too strong and too weak. They claim the out-groups they target are both inferior to and a threat to the in-group. According to the fascists the out-groups must be eliminated to preserve the in-group. And the in-group is justified in eliminating the out-groups because of the in-group’s superiority. This is a contradiction, because a superior group should have nothing to fear from an inferior group.

The fascists divide the population into in-groups and out-groups as a mechanism of control, usually based on physical characteristics. As part of their crusade against out-groups they actually have to destroy the out-groups. But the fascists need an out-group to exist in order to stay in power. If there is no threat to the in-group, then there is no use in having a fascist strongman.

To solve this problem, fascists have to repeat the process of dividing the population into in-groups and out-groups. The Nazis divided people into a extensive racial hierarchy from the get-go. This process repeats itself until no one is left. It is not a slippery slope, but rather the nature of fascism as a self-destructive ideology. Inevitably the fascists are defeated military or destroy the entire population. In the end, no one meets the ideal qualifications of a superior human that the fascists imagine.

Your argument does the same thing with ideology. It calls for the preservation of an in-group by the extermination of an out-group. The out-group is both a threat to the in-group and yet inferior. Rather than striving for purity of the body your argument seeks purity of thought. It is the same outcome sold with a different scam. Once everyone considered to be too fascist to be allowed to live has been killed the next out-group will be on the chopping block.

There’s a popular adage that says, scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds. The neo-liberals will be deemed to dangerous to keep alive because they obstruct systemic change and their ideology leads to fascism. The progressives will be deemed well meaning, but under closer examination they aren’t left enough. Their policies don’t allow workers to seize the means of production.

The social democrats, while socialists, believe in democracy. And what is democracy to the far left but an incubation chamber for fascism. The democratic socialists are also open to a political socialist revolution, ie democracy, and cannot be trusted by the far left. What are socialists but people who believe in an ideology that is only a stepping stone to communism. Communists who want a stateless society are simply deluding themselves according to the authoritarian communists. The authoritarian communists believe only an authoritarian dictatorship can preserve the worker’s revolution.

We move so far left we end up wrapping around back to the far-right in the form of authoritarian communism. The most substantial difference between the red fascism your argument is proposing and the fascism we are seeing in the US today is that they divide people on different metrics. These ideologies are all self-destructive because there is no stopping point. No one is good enough by any metric, and so what these ideologies are really saying is that we are all better off dead. No one deserves fascism because life is worth living no matter our flaws.

lolcatnip ,

It calls for the preservation of an in-group by the extermination of an out-group.

I said this:

Fascists deserve fascism, but they deserve to be the victims of it.

You’re twisting my words and making fallacious arguments. This conversation is over. Feel free to write another novela, but I’m done reading.

ToastedPlanet ,

Your argument is a 1:1 match to arguments made by red fascists, ie tankies, ie authoritarian communists. It was easy for me to spot because I have seen it before. Hopefully it will now be easy for you to spot as well.

It calls for the preservation of an in-group by the extermination of an out-group.

=

Fascists deserve fascism, but they deserve to be the victims of it.

AmbiguousProps ,

No one deserves fascism.

Biden has the power to do something now, but instead he’s using it to campaign. What good will voting him in do if he’s just gunna sit on his hands and do nothing? That has little to do with him being old. Not saying that I won’t vote for him, but it’s understandable to be frustrated, and people definitely don’t deserve fascism for that.

lolcatnip ,

I didn’t care what the fuck other people deserve. I can’t control how other people act, but I’ll have to live with the same outcome as them.

Quit trying to justify the unjustifiable.

pyre ,

show, don’t tell.

but you’re a pussy so you won’t. and we’re gonna have to see what TFG actually does with it.

henfredemars ,

Could this response be any more weak and flaccid?

Wake the fuck up! It’s not someone else’s problem to solve. It’s yours.

andrewta ,

Be specific. Exactly how would he solve this problem.

AmbiguousProps ,

It’s not our job to solve it, he’s the one that was voted in to figure it out. He’s had four years, now has legal power to do just about anything, and came out with this response?

andrewta ,

Yet here you are saying to do something and yet you can’t come up with one specific thing

AmbiguousProps , (edited )

Why should I? I’m not the President of the United States who was just granted dictator-level powers.

Name one thing he couldn’t do.

Personally (and since you’re persistent), I think he should declare Mar-a-lago and Trump a threat to national security. Then, he should personally use marine one to liberate the residence.

Is that specific enough for you?

lolcatnip ,

Christ you’re obnoxious.

treefrog ,

He’s the only person in the country who can pull out a 9mm and shoot Trump in broad daylight without it being a crime. As well as every SCJ that voted for this immunity. He can then replace every SCJ he executed with his own appointments. If Congress won’t approve his appointments, he can keep killing them until the vote passes.

This ruling is a free pass for dictators. All Biden has to do is act like one. I doubt he would, but he legally could.

queermunist ,

Well, no, that doesn’t sound official.

He could drone strike Trump though.

andrewta ,

So throw the country and what’s left of it in the toilet. Bad idea

henfredemars ,

I think there’s more than enough examples in these comments to satisfy the curiosity.

Whatever should a recently unmoored, democratically elected leader do in the face of a blatantly undemocratic, unamerican ruling? He’s only just short of all powerful.

queermunist ,

He could drone strike all his enemies and their families to the third generation. He can do anything in an official capacity and there’s literally nothing stopping him.

andrewta ,

So your answer of how can Biden solve the problem of unchecked presidential power and not having Trump stand trial is to use unchecked power and kill a bunch of people.

How exactly did this solve anything? Other then basically guaranteeing a civil war?

queermunist ,

With this ruling Biden can “clear” the Judicial bench and nominate new Justices, who would then reverse this ruling. One and done.

Now if you’re worried about civil war, yeah, that’s a legitimate concern. I’m pretty sure this ruling already puts us on the path towards civil war, though? As soon as we have another Republican president they’re just going to start killing people!

Is your answer to just never elect another Republican president? I hope you can see why that’s not going to work in the long run!

andrewta ,

Sadly never electing another republican president isn’t a real option.

I’m not sure he’s got the ability to clear the courts bench. I don’t think he has the ability to do that. Even with this ruling. Be an interesting thought if he did

queermunist ,

This ruling gives him the power to do basically anything as long as it’s through the office of the president.

And hey, if he “clears” the bench and replaced them with better Justices then the new Court can just decide to not hear challenges to his actions clearing the bench. Or, if they heard it, make a special ruling i.e. it was legal this one time but actually unconstitutional every time going forward. Or even rule that he broke the law and force him to resign, but still not reinstate the previous Justices. Lots of options for solving this problem.

Audacious , (edited )

Biden needs to make some harsh executive orders, fixing the court (adding more judges or removing them), disbarring Trump from running and forced jailing, then claim all the bullshit changes made by the bad apples are unconstitutional and be reversed.

crawancon ,

but nope. Just voices of concern as usual.

it’s infuriating they do fucking nothing

Ensign_Crab ,

Now now, his hands are always tied and he can never do anything. He’s the president, not a king.

Oh wait. Guess that particular goalpost has got to move now.

Distant_Foreground ,

It’s because it’s only bad if the opposition is furnished with those abilities.

No president Left, Right or otherwise would relinquish such power. They’d complain about an opponent gaining it but would see nothing wrong with having it themselves.

I couldn’t see any government shying away at a chance to have more power.

snooggums ,
@snooggums@midwest.social avatar

He should have all the justices arrested and put in Gitmo indefinitely, then jam 6 Dem justices to the court and have them undo all the shitty decisions over the last two decades. Arrest enough senators and house memebers to pass decent legislation and ban Trump from being eligible. Then arrest Teump.and have him put to death for treason. Arrest the rest of the Jan 6th insurrectionists and throw them in Gitmo too.

Then put the structures in place to cover the things that let the Republicans set up a dicatorship so we can have a democracy again.

But no, he will.play fair and shoot himself in the dick so that the slide into fascism continues.

Wahots ,
@Wahots@pawb.social avatar

Pack the court and disbarring Trump would should be the bare minimum.

kylie_kraft ,

Fuck that. Biden should make them regret this decision. If his candidacy is as DOA as everyone is pretending it is, then there’s no incentive to play by the rules. Move fast and break stuff and get some shit done for a change.

Also,

Biden, under intense pressure after his disastrous debate performance against Trump last week

They just had to get it in there. Not a mention of Trump making shit up the whole time, or the raving lunatic shit he’s saying on the campaign trail. 90 minutes of Biden being low energy and it’s all over. “The other guy is too old, maybe we can do a little fascism. That will be OK, right?”

Orbituary ,
@Orbituary@lemmy.world avatar

You have high hopes. Remember, you never know how far you can walk until you try to fly.

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

Biden has the period between election and inauguration to get really weird if he loses.

numbermess ,

It’s crazy that this is the kind of shit we’re counting on now. It used to be the Guardrails and then it was the Wheels of Justice grinding exceedingly fine and now it’s Maybe Something Good Will Happen at the Last Minute

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

I’m just saying with this ruling Biden could do something really weird in the transitional period and it probably would take the rest of his life to go to court for it.

Wahots ,
@Wahots@pawb.social avatar

At this point, I’m hoping for an Iranian-style helicopter crash for Trump, Bannon and a few others, Harlan and Thomas get killed in a hurricane wile vacationing abroad, and the other conservative supreme court justices all get get incapacitated by some disease or something.

If the entirety of the heritage foundation could get hit by a fridge-sized meteorite, that would be great.

Audacious ,

Insane that I have yet to see an article about trump lies during the debate. All I saw was Biben be replace bs articles.

FiniteBanjo ,

Breaking News: Bear shits in the woods.

iAmTheTot ,

Almost every article I saw posted following the debate touched on Trump’s falsehoods.

But also, Trump lying is not news. He lied all the way to his 2016 win, and lied decades before that, and still lies now. Absolutely no one new is going to be convinced that he’s bad because he lies. If absolutely anyone is thinking of voting of Trump at this point, him lying is not going to be the deciding factor.

Audacious ,

I think it should be hammered to death because a person in power should not ever be allowed to get away with lying. I know morality isn’t in law, but it should be, IMO. The world is so fucked up in so many ways because no one puts morals in law.

Guy_Fieris_Hair , (edited )

Because Trump lies. It’s old news. There was no way that debate was going to play well for Biden. He had nothing to gain. People voting for Trump are voting for Trump, people not voting for Trump are either Voting for Biden or staying home. Biden has to convince people not to stay home, not convince people not to vote for Trump.

The people that vote for Trump are people so sick of the current state of politics they want to burn it all down. Very few actually think he’s a great president. He’s a troll vote. Biden’s performance made more people want to watch the world burn.

Zaktor ,

There were plenty, some paired with Biden’s performance, some focused only on fact checking.

Audacious ,

Thanks for linking this. Nice to see at least one.

JWBananas ,
@JWBananas@lemmy.world avatar

Biden shared this today on social media.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/31413fd9-d8b0-497a-a8bf-ae15af4c3b26.jpeg

morriscox ,

Why did they put an image of Trump overlaying the list? People can’t read the full list.

eran_morad ,

No, not insane. 100% expected. This is the danger of electing an obligate serial liar. We have all been accustomed to his bullshitting. About the size of crowds, about how much money he has, about how fucking oppressed he is, about stolen this and unfair that, etc. No one has the energy to give a fuck anymore. It’s all old news.

I fear the only way out of this is violence.

some_guy ,

Sorry, are you suggesting that the media is against Biden? Cause they’ve been for him for months. Any apprehension about his future prospects have nothing to do with Trump being a lying sack of shit. I won’t apologize for Biden sucking. I do like the idea of him turning the scotus ruling on them.

ImADifferentBird ,
@ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

What media have you been looking at? The only thing I’ve seen about Biden for months has been about how he’s too old. And occasionally a bit about him supporting Israel, whether that’s presented in a positive or negative light.

lost_faith ,

Every time Biden had that “confused” look on his face during the debate, he was reacting to some absolute bullshit tRump had just said and the media turned it into “Biden confused”. Biden WAS low energy, what was trump on? It is also easier to spew bullshit, when there is ABSOLUTELY NO PUSH BACK, then it is to remember ACTUAL facts. Watching the follow up I felt like I was being gaslit on what I actually watched

seathru ,
@seathru@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

“I know I will respect the limits of presidential power as I have for the three-and-a-half years, but any president, including Donald Trump, will now be free to ignore the law,”

“Yes we may be in a steel cage wrestling match. But I’m still going to follow gentlemens rules. Those tables, chairs and ladders are off-limits to me; My moral superiority will win the day.”

Tom Howard voiceover: “It didn’t”

cybervseas ,

Ron Howard

seathru ,
@seathru@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Nah, this is his cousin. I’m on a budget here.

bitchkat ,

You could have gotten his brother Clint for cheaper.

Assman ,
@Assman@sh.itjust.works avatar

Todd Howard

Ensign_Crab ,

Howard Dean

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

President Joe Biden warned Monday that a Supreme Court ruling granting presidents broad immunity from prosecutionwould make an unchecked Republican Donald Trump “more emboldened to do whatever he wants” if he regains the White House in November’s election.

And the justices kind of looked around quizzically and said “Yeah…no shit, that’s the whole idea. Did you just get that?”

MrVilliam ,

He’s spelling it out for voters to get them off their asses. People said “yeah right” in 2016 when the ones who were paying attention said that the scotus was on the ballot, and it turns out we were right. It’s probably good to hear the calm warnings straight from him rather than just from “alarmist” friends, relatives, and coworkers this time.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

It makes him look even more out of touch with the moment though and incompetent.

If he’s still unwilling to back a campaign to court pack and still unwilling to remove the biggest obstacle to a possible Democratic win in November (himself), his words mean very little. It’s just more too little too late by Biden.

ToucheGoodSir ,

Ok… sooooo… has anyone ELSE seen the photo of the most blood thirsty terrorist group in history? Had uh, the Clintons, the Bush Family, the Obamas, etc in a nice snug family portrait. Was missing a certain orange baboon & his ilk however :| they’re clowns not terrorists though

AuroraZzz ,

This is a totally sane person

bolexforsoup ,

This is your brain on breitbart*

RageAgainstTheRich ,

Uhhh… Are you alright? Do we need to call your mom?

rockSlayer ,

what are you talking about?

Orbituary ,
@Orbituary@lemmy.world avatar

To quote his own guy, “I don’t know what he said and I don’t think he does either.”

Ensign_Crab ,

Whose debate coach were you?

Icalasari ,

Having a touch of the !aneurysmposting I see

STUPIDVIPGUY ,

Do you even have the ability to think in a straight line? What is this even supposed to mean? You write like someone with dementia

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