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circuitfarmer ,
@circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Event happens.

Internet floods with conspiracies about Event.

News reports that there are conspiracies about Event.

Rinse and repeat. “Event” can be virtually anything of public note.

pigup ,

Still voting for Biden. He maybe senile but his heart appears to be in the right place. It’s all I got to work with. 🤷‍♂️

dubyakay ,

That’s a very poor wording to describe someone supporting genocide.

pigup ,

Who should I vote for then? keep in mind, I would like for this mystery candidate to have a real chance at winning…

dubyakay ,

Vote for Biden of course.

I was just attacking your words to describe him. Just don’t try to justify it with such lines.

Ledivin ,

You’re actively working against your own agenda.

dubyakay ,

How would I? I’m Canadian.

ReluctantMuskrat ,

Honestly I don’t think he even wants to support Israel’s abuse of Palestine. He just knows he can’t take an extreme stance against them before an election. If he does, he’ll lose a lot of the Jewish and Christian vote.

dubyakay ,

I hope you are right.

bradorsomething ,

You guys have one chord and think you can record an album.

Shanedino ,

It’s no conspiracy that Trump dodged almost every question.

jeffw OP ,

This article was published 14.5 hours before the debate

Grass ,

just dump them both and their first replacements in a black hole and things will potentially improve.

arin ,

Yes independent party! Fuck the DNC for throwing our Bernie under the bus

jumjummy ,

All that does is help Trump, but you know that already. Go plant sunflowers.

arin ,

Puppet of DNC

PoliticalAgitator ,

Okay sure, let’s have this discussion.

The first massive favor I’ll do is give you the benefit of the doubt and accept you’re saying this in good faith and not as a right-wing sock puppet.

The next massive favor I’ll do is accept your (ostensible) plan is wildly successful, far beyond what you could reasonably hope for. Everybody is so moved by your comment that you convince 80% of Democrat voters to vote independent and every single one votes for the same independent party. Hell, I’ll even throw in 10% of Republican voters.

The only thing we won’t give you is the ranked choice voting needed to stop your idea being dumb as fuck. We’ll stick to reality for that one.

So tell us how the next 4 years play out in your head. Polls close, votes are counted. Democrats 9.8%, Toothfairy Party 44.1%, Republicans 45.9%.

Then what?

arin ,

Ahh yes making a good sensible choice in a vote is so rigged, let’s keep our handcuffs on and vote for the puppets they show us

PoliticalAgitator ,

Aww, don’t start being coy, tell us what happens next. Explain how our problems are solved after following your advice. I’ve given you the best possible setup I could, assuming a level of success unquestionably beyond what you’re able to achieve.

Unless you’re willing to give us even a token explanation of the second half of your plan, it really does look like “Republicans win the election” is where your plan ends.

dogslayeggs ,

It was a legitimately bad performance from Biden. Every media outlet is reporting how bad it was.

Even if the overall debate wasn’t that bad from him, his few moments of mumbling gibberish will overshadow everything else. Trump rightly pointed out at one point he couldn’t understand anything Biden was saying to try counterpointing it.

FuglyDuck ,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

So, outa curiosity…. How many cans of Mountain Dew did Biden slam back?

uebquauntbez ,

And russian trolls do their best … or worst right now. And chinese leaders wait and smile.

Zier ,
@Zier@fedia.io avatar

Biden looked terrible, and he sounded terrible.
Trump lied about 99% of the time.
Biden told us what he did for ALL Americans and there is more to come.
Trump admitted he cut taxes for the wealthy and destroyed environmental regulations.
As a voter, you are voting for the candidate and their administration.
The choice in 2024 is, A. Things get better for our Democracy, or B. We install a dictator and voting ends forever.
They are not both the same, and NOT voting, or 3rd party voting, helps the weaker candidate win.

I'm voting for the candidate that has been making life for ALL citizens better, that's the job of the President.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

Things won’t get better under Biden though. Strongest argument neoliberals might be able to make is that fascism will arrive slightly slower under their guy.

But seeing how Biden is fumbling it’s very likely he’s going to lose this. He needs to step down. If it’s about the party or the administration then he needs to realize that. If he stays in he is responsible for a Trump win.

HubertManne ,

Things have gotten better under his first term so I don't see why it would not. At least for things the president could effect. As far as facism it has not improved in terms of rectifying citizens united but not getting better is a whole lot better than getting way worse.

Fades ,

OPEN YOUR FUCKING EYES JESUS CHRIST

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

And look at what? The genocide he’s funding? The illegal border policy he tried to pass that was identical to the one Trump tried to pass under his term? Or am I suppose to be looking at the past 40 years where neoliberals like Biden have failed to to confront the slow encroachment of fascism and instead chose to spend all their energy and resources undermining progressives in their own party? Or how voting the “lesser of two evils” for all that time has produced zero results?

You’re acting exasperated as if neoliberal democrats aren’t complicit in where we are right now. I think it’s you who needs to open your eyes and understand that neolibs aren’t helping or even buying us more time. The loss of our rights has continued full speed under the Biden admin, and he’s risking it all to satisfy his own ego and fanatical zionism.

No. Biden is responsible for his unelectability and when he refuses to step aside he will be responsible for his loss.

jumjummy ,

Biden or Trump, which one are you voting for? Oh, that’s right, Russians can’t vote in US elections!

jumjummy ,

Oh look, the same clown in the same circus. Just come out and say you want Trump to win. All this blabbing you do on every single Biden thread trying to come across as “for the good of the party”. Totally disingenuous.

People like you will be responsible for Trump.

crusa187 ,

Biden (and his ego) is responsible for the inevitable loss in November, but they will surely blame leftists for not voting hard enough. It’s utterly deranged they expect a candidate such as this to pass muster, but here we are. Biden admin couldn’t even pass voting rights act, after Jan 6 and attempted coups with fake electors plot happened. The incompetency at governing is truly astounding, and this is why I’ll also blame Biden for the slide into fascism.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Things won’t get better for Gaza.

BrundleFly2077 ,

Let’s burn everything down then. Gotcha. Thanks for clearing up this complex situation for us.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Not what I said, just a reminder that genocide is bipartisan.

Hadriscus ,

Exactly. They won’t get better either way. But at least they won’t get even worse. Wouldn’t you want that ?

Mihies ,

How is it possible to get worse?

GoodEye8 ,

Biden at least tries to save some face, as evident from the recent cease fire push. Trump doesn’t give two shits about optics and would instantly give Israel whatever they want and publicly back then up. It won’t get much worse, because it’s already so bad it’s hard to get much worse, but it will get worse under Trump.

Spacehooks , (edited )

Never ask that question. It’s a flag.

Israel could always round up Palestinians into camps for thier safety preventing them from Leaving. Then provide them jobs… and then kill whomever in gas chambers.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

They’re already rounded up into camps. They’re called “safe zones”

Spacehooks ,

Phase 1 complete when they got them all. Watch Isreal offer them jobs and they can’t leave until they paid off some bs

Zier ,
@Zier@fedia.io avatar

Electing trump will surely show us just how awful life here can be. Watch documentaries about the DPRK and you will see what dear leader wants to become. Freedom will be a memory.

Hadriscus ,

You want to try and see ?

HubertManne ,

we could stop trying to aid palestinians. we could give israel more than a token amount of military aid. If you don't think what we do is token compare ukraine to israel. its about 10x (when ukraine stuff is not blocked by a certain party). direct us troops could be involved even if its just killing iranian generals with missiles.

dogslayeggs ,

Are you seriously so stupid you can’t imagine ways it gets worse? A) The humanitarian aid we give Palestinians would stop. That is worse. B) The military aid we give Israel could get much higher. C) The tacit approval we give to Netanyahu to commit war crimes could become overt approval, giving him freedom to commit worse atrocities. D) The US could put troops on the ground, which might almost be better since our troops are both better trained AND not so intent on committing genocide compared to the IDF, but in the end is probably worse since Trump would just order eradication of everything.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

They won’t be alive by 2025. Can it get worse?

Fades ,

won’t get better either way

jesus fucking christ.

if Biden loses and Trump takes office, he will help Bibi finish the job www.nytimes.com/…/trump-israel-conservative.html

MEANWHILE Biden has been working hard on a 3-step peace plan that includes giving up remaining hostages for ceasefire and then continued ceasefire with more conditions resulting in the end of the goddamn war.

Hadriscus ,

yep

crusa187 ,

Biden’s throat was sore on debate night from gobbling Bibi’s knob, he’s easily one of the most Zionist presidents in American history. Biden wouldn’t even address Trump’s derogatory comments towards Palestinians during the debate. And most importantly - Biden is presently enabling the genocide. “Trump would be worse” is such a weak argument, even if true - where’s the accountability for the current administration?

Soulg ,

You’d think, based on your username, you would be against what Trump stands for, seeing as he’s clearly worse for Gaza too.

I can no longer tell if you’re a provocateur or an idiot, frankly.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

For them if doesn’t matter who wins, because if Israel is not stopped there won’t be anyone left in Gaza by 2025.

Ledivin ,

If it doesn’t matter, then why are you using it as a talking point?

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

It’s called agitation. I don’t really care who the president will be. What I care about is people realizing that our government is evil.

yetAnotherUser ,

That’s a tautology when talking about any potential American president

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Correct. This is a demon country run by moonstera.

Fades ,

if Biden loses and Trump takes office, yes I agree. Trump will help Bibi finish the job www.nytimes.com/…/trump-israel-conservative.html

MEANWHILE Biden has been working hard on a 3-step peace plan that includes giving up remaining hostages for ceasefire and then continued ceasefire with more conditions resulting in the end of the goddamn war.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Biden is working hard to help genocide the Palestinians. He could end this whenever he wants by not giving them more weapons. He said there was a red line! All lies.

Jax ,

How does Biden take away the guns they already have?

Furthermore, have you even thought about how not giving them more firepower will play out? Because, guess what, it still won’t stop what Israel is doing.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

The bombs would run out if Biden stopped giving them more - Israel itself has admitted they need the US to do the genocide.

crusa187 ,

Then send in the UN and forcefully remove their nukes if they’re going to be gonicidal with them. So sick of this argument being trotted out to defend what Israel is doing. Might does not make right.

Jax ,

You are fucking insane if you believe forcefully removing nukes is a good idea.

Imagine saying “might does not make right” after such a stupid statement, you should think about your words more carefully.

jumjummy ,

Now let me see your criticism of all the Republicans in Congress who fully support the situation in Gaza. Surprising all I hear are “GeNoCiDe JoE” comments from people like you.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

I’m voting downticket for Democrats dawg. Republicans are enemies of humanity and should be rounded up into work camps.

tearsintherain ,
@tearsintherain@leminal.space avatar

Jared Kushner, Trump’s son-in-law, praises ‘very valuable’ potential of Gaza’s ‘waterfront property’

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Yes, they say the quiet part out loud.

HubertManne ,

This run down fits with what I saw but biden was better by the end if not great. Trump did a good job though of looking better in a beauty pageant aint nobody want to be a contestant in.

Fades ,

Great, no. Better, undoubtedly.

HubertManne ,

yeah I should have used but not great not if.

modifier ,

Ohfuckohfuckohfuckohfuckohgodohohgodohgodwerefuckedohgodohgod

Nurse_Robot ,

It’s so painful to watch Biden attempt to recall accurate information, while watching Trump effortlessly lie.

Boozilla ,
@Boozilla@lemmy.world avatar

As I’m watching it, Mozart’s Requiem in D minor is playing in my head.

TheRealKuni ,

When Biden seemed lost at the beginning, it was the Introitus.

When they were arguing about golf, it was the Confutatis.

When they were both responding to how to help Americans with addiction by talking about restricting fentanyl coming into the country, it was the Dies Irae.

The entire thing was underlined by the Lacrimosa.

The closing statements, the Kyrie. Lord have mercy.

Edit: (Obviously these are not in performance order.)

Omegamanthethird ,
@Omegamanthethird@lemmy.world avatar

This is probably the worst Biden has ever sounded, and it was largely because he was trying to remember and repeat everything he could.

Meanwhile Trump just says whatever comes to mind.

Also, what was up with those muffled mics? You could hear it in Trump’s mic too until he started getting louder.

Nurse_Robot ,

I didn’t notice the muffled mics, but I agree with you on all accounts otherwise

ramenshaman ,

Before the debate they said Biden had had a cold as well.

Maggoty ,

The mics were turned off when it wasn’t their turn.

Omegamanthethird ,
@Omegamanthethird@lemmy.world avatar

No, I mean both candidates sounded softer than normal. Like the sound was a bit muffled. It was most noticeable at the very beginning before they started talking louder.

Maggoty ,

Interesting, I didn’t notice anything like that. Maybe they screwed up the audio.

vaultdweller013 ,

Sounds like a noise suppression issue. Probably just a fuck up by the techs.

HubertManne ,

At one point trump was talking forever. you could see even he was not sure what else to say but he kept plugging along. I was like. isn't his time up? aren't they supposed to mute the mics?

HubertManne ,

its easier to make stuff up than remember details that need to be accurate.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

They set the expectations ridiculously low for Biden and are desperately trying to claw that back. When they say he can’t string two sentences together, all he has to do is string two sentences together and he’s shown that they’re wrong about him. Such morons.

Nurse_Robot ,

Meanwhile, I had higher expectations for Biden, and Trump’s expectations are what I’m seeing… This debate will not sway me away from voting Biden, but fuck is it hard to watch.

Boozilla ,
@Boozilla@lemmy.world avatar

I try to remember that we’re voting for an entire administration and presidential appointments, an apparatus much larger than one old man. It’s cold comfort, but it’s something.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I feel like Biden has exceeded my expectations for him. I wouldn’t call him good, but he’s better than I expected him to be, which was essentially Trump lite on policy.

AFKBRBChocolate ,

I agree, and have said the same repeatedly. In 2020, I just wanted a president who wasn’t a complete crook, con man, and national embarrassment. I didn’t think Biden would accomplish much, I just hoped he could repair our reputation with other countries a little.

I was stunned that Biden accomplished more than Obama. He certainly isn’t perfect, but he’s fine a good job. Just that infrastructure bill would be something most presidents would take as their legacy, but he’s done a lot more.

He’s too damned old, but I’ll still take him over Trump.

HubertManne ,

this. for me personally the no surprise billing and throwing out non competes was huge.

HubertManne ,

I really don't see his policies as even being close. environment, taxes, ukraine, abortion. Hes not even bush jr light. Might be able to compare him to bush sr. or reagan as far as lite version but you can say that about clinton and obama. As far adminstration accomplishments he is the best president of my lifetime. I liked obama but he really wasted his first term. Granted we are not nearly as left as I would like to be as a country now or in direction we are headed bu that is not due to too many democrats being elected.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

As I said, I expected him to be that, but he exceeded those expectations.

nickwitha_k ,

Yup.

nickwitha_k ,

I dunno. IMO, he didn’t sound terrible. He sounded like an 81 year old who probably shouldn’t have been shoved into the nomination but the other frontrunner last time could have forced some representation of the left, so the DNC did it anyway. At least he made an effort to make sentences and call out lies, which the moderators should have.

I hate that our choices are a guy who should be retired vs a nazi that should be retired.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I didn’t watch it, but from what I’m reading this morning, it probably won’t change anyone’s mind.

Maggoty ,

We need about a week to see what happens with polling. Anyone right now is just reading tea leaves. But uh … This is the worst debate performance I’ve seen since Palin. So I can see why party insiders are suddenly discussing things like an open convention in hushed voices.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Okay, but what I’m reading is that Biden sounded like a lost old man and Trump sounded like a crazy old man, which is what everyone already knew about both of them, so I’m not sure why anyone would change their minds.

Maggoty ,

Because we know from 2016 and 2020 that Trump’s craziness isn’t an impediment to him getting votes. We’re also in a bubble here on Lemmy. The CNN flash poll they conduct before/after the debate had a 12 point swing towards Trump.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Was that 12 points swinging towards Trump as the debate winner or was that people changing their vote? Because those are very different things. I would be surprised if it were the latter.

Maggoty ,

The debate winner. And yeah it’s different but also telling when Biden has won easily every other time.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I really don’t think that it’s telling at all. I have a very difficult time believing someone would suddenly consider a dictator over the possibility of Kamala Harris stepping in like they hadn’t already.

Maggoty ,

It’s worth remembering that our elections are generally very close. It doesn’t take a ton of people in a battle state to change their minds.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Sure, but there’s also a lot of time between now an November.

Maggoty ,

That is also true. Another breakpoint coming up is Trump’s sentencing. Apparently focus groups report they’re less likely to vote for him if he gets a sentence including a jail or prison term.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

There’s also that documentary which may or may not come out about Trump being racist during The Apprentice. We’ll see if that has an effect.

nickwitha_k ,

I did watch it. It was not great but, I’m still left with the impression that people set really unrealistic expectations for an 81 year old with a history of speech impediment. Those things come back in novel ways as we get older. IMO, the whole thing borders on elder abuse but, that’s where we’re at. Just disappointing to see the “left-wing” (corpo) media immediately on the attack - they seem to be trying to carry more water due Trump.

Also, I am not sure if the shell-shocked look of the talking head before she started speaking was from the debate or the words on the teleprompter.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

What’s amazing to me is the Trump team set the bar so super low that Biden would have cleared it no matter what and it didn’t end up making a difference.

nickwitha_k ,

Agreed. I didn’t think that it would have made much of a difference, however, even if Biden came across as a master orator. “Undecided” folks are probably just going to use whatever they take from it to justify whatever decision they were likely already going to make.

tamal3 ,

As far as I know, Biden chose to run for president again. If that was forced on him, then yes, what’s happening is terrible. But if he made that choice freely, then we’re only attempting to vet candidates for the job as we always do. If he can’t handle the vetting process (as flawed and televised as it is) then he shouldn’t be running…

He should be at home chilling, not taking on one of the most demanding possible jobs for another 4 years. His decision making may or may not be fine, but the he obviously can’t consistently meet the communication demands of the role.

The alternative is worse, but I’m not happy about voting for Biden. 3rd parties and RCV, please!

HubertManne ,

I was really dissapointed that biden did not discuss trump lowering interest rates to zero before covid when obama had gotten us to a few percent. Zero interest rates is something that is only supposed to be done when there are problems and the economy is not running right and we need a general buff. three to six are normal levels. over six is high. You will always get inflation when interest rates are kept low in an economy that does not need it. This was one reason we could not drop them when covid hit and the reason they had to be raised at breakneck speed which is something you never want to do. They should be lowered and raised very slowly at very slow levels. Idealy quarter of a point or less each time and not ever quarter.

Silentiea ,
@Silentiea@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I hate that our choices are a guy who should be retired vs a nazi that should be retired.

Very well said

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