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foggy ,

Holy shit this is hard to watch.

watson387 ,
@watson387@sopuli.xyz avatar

I hear you. All you hear about is how incoherent Biden is… Bullshit. He comes across as articulate and knowledgeable here. Trump hasn’t said anything at all yet. He just keeps spouting idiotic generalizations about how bad the state of the country is without any examples or proof.

OsaErisXero ,

Don't forget the oughtright lies.

foggy ,

No, it’s hard to watch because Biden needs to clear his throat and keeps drifting off.

Trump keeps not answering questions and lying and dodging.

It’s all around pathetic.

themeatbridge ,

One guy is slightly hoarse.

The other is a delusional fascist.

So basically both sides the same.

foggy ,

I didn’t say they were the same. That’s a weird thing to say. I said they were both pathetic.

Because they both are.

givesomefucks ,

I hear you. All you hear about is how incoherent Biden is… Bullshit

…

During a response to a question about abortion, Biden mentioned, seemingly out of nowhere, a young woman who was recently murdered by an immigrant — an apparent reference to a 12-year-old Houston girl who was strangled to death, allegedly by two Venezuelan men who entered the country illegally.

The connection to abortion was unclear.

apnews.com/live/presidential-debate-2024-updates

aleph , (edited )
@aleph@lemm.ee avatar

Calling Biden articulate is being incredibly generous. I mean, what on earth was he trying to communicate here?

Overall, Biden put in a very lackluster, unconvincing performance while Trump did his usual schtick of rambling off topic, lying through his teeth, and refusing to answer any questions on policy. The whole thing was a shambles.

eran_morad ,

I tried, twice. Fuck it, it’s just unbearable.

foggy ,

Didn’t they say there would be live fact checking?

Sigh.

originalucifer ,
@originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com avatar

biden sounds like shit, but hes got all the right words. hes made a few mistakes hes quickly fixed, but no giant mistakes and lots of details.

trump is doin what trump does... throw a wall of lies loudly

AFKBRBChocolate ,

I don’t know, I’m for sure voting Biden, but I can’t say he’s doing great. He’s doing a little better when he’s getting riled, but he sounds old - more than three years older than Trump.

originalucifer ,
@originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com avatar

agreed, but if you imagine those words in print, its very obvious biden knows whats hes talking about.

the morals of an alley cat!

AFKBRBChocolate ,

Oh, for sure. And I’ve worked with enough really sharp older people to know their words can get flubbed up when they’re on the spot when even though their brains are sharp.

nieceandtows ,

Is there a video on how to unsee the debate?

TimLovesTech ,
@TimLovesTech@badatbeing.social avatar

“Their taking Black jobs, and their taking Hispanic jobs …”

“What exactly is a Black or Hispanic job Mr. Trump?” should have been the follow up on that one.

Hildegarde ,

What even is the point of this debate? They’ve both had a term in office. We know how both of them actually govern the actual country. What can this debate possibly convey that the past 8 years of governance hasn’t?

555_1 ,

Whatever the point was, it’s a very sad show. Trump is a liar and Biden can’t string a sentence together.

We’re all fucked.

sp3tr4l ,

Yep, thats my impression as well so far.

Trump is confidently blazing through (what should be) obvious lies, while Biden is mumbling and forgetting what he is trying to say half way through saying it.

givesomefucks ,

I dont know why, but moderates keep acting like charisma doesn’t matter.

They just keep repeating that money is what matters, because they’re good at taking money from people they shouldnt. But they’re bad at getting votes, people just don’t like them. Partly because of what they do for that money.

Sabata11792 ,

It’s actually painful to watch.

555_1 ,

Yeah. I had to turn it off. I’ll be surprised if Biden wins after this.

dalekcaan ,

Someone down voted you but I can’t imagine why. I desperately want Biden to win but he looks like shit out there. Trump, meanwhile, is confidently spouting whatever horseshit pops into his head (even had the fucking gall to call Biden a criminal). Half the government is gleefully destroying the country and the other half is letting them. I honestly don’t see a way forward for this country. I don’t like to be a cynic but I cannot imagine a scenario where the next four years aren’t an absolute clusterfuck.

555_1 ,

Best part about hiding votes is I never care what anyone thinks! ;)

Blumpkinhead ,

Huh?

555_1 ,

The Lemmy App Voyager allows me to hide the visibility of up and down votes. So, I can’t see what the number is… it makes social networking much nicer.

Icalasari ,

Best case scenario is both Biden and Trump dropping

xmunk ,

Trump once again confirmed support for Isreal accelerating the genocide - if you think there’s no difference between their policy on Palestine, you’re arguing in bad faith.

givesomefucks ,

apnews.com/live/presidential-debate-2024-updates

The conflict between the Israelis and Palestinians is an especially vulnerable spot for Biden. With only 26% of U.S. adults approving of his handling of the issue, it’s well below his overall approval rating (39%). In the latest AP-NORC poll, nearly 6 in 10 Democrats disapprove of his approach to the conflict

trump is worse than Biden, and only 26% agree with Biden…

You don’t think it’s worth talking about when a foreign country buys off both parties in a two party system so that no matter what happens their interests (in this case a genocide) would be protected and funded?

You don’t see how this could be happening to a lesser extent in other areas like banking, healthcare, employment, and even social issues that religions care about?

Carl’s Jr and Hardee’s are also two different things, but two things don’t have to be absolutely identical to be compared to each other. If they were, we wouldn’t be comparing them because they would be the same.

I think that’s what you’re missing and why you’re accusing people of arguing in bad faith.

You just don’t understand the point they’re making, but you think you do.

xmunk ,

Oh, I absolutely agree they’re both pretty awful, but one is significantly worse. I fully support putting pressure on both candidates to be better, but the American political system means one of these people will be the next president and if you care about Palestinians its important to make sure that’s Biden.

givesomefucks ,

Oh, I absolutely agree they’re both pretty awful, but one is significantly worse.

We’re talking about genocide tho…

We’re asking people to support “some” genocide, and that “some” is actually quite a fucking lot of genocide.

And we’re not just asking Americans to overlook that, we’re asking young Dem voters to overlook it. A demographic who historically doesn’t like that shit going back for pretty much the entire existence of the party.

It makes absolutely zero sense except if the party as an entity wants to be as conservative as possible so when the nation has such a serious risk as trump, instead of the easy win of a candidate dem.voters want, we get someone significantly more conservative than the party, 82 years old, and uncharismatic.

It’s like someone at the DNC bet on winning, but not to cover the spread. So they’re trying to win by the smallest majority possible.

xmunk ,

Our system of government means one of these two assholes will be the next president. Do you want three helpings of genocide or two? It’s going to be one of those outcomes so do you have the courage to say less genocide is desirable?

givesomefucks ,

You’re acting like convincing me means anything…

Biden needs to convince 10s of millions of people. Politicians like Obama and Bill Clinton could do that, but they were charismatic in addition to being the lesser of two evils.

It just makes zero sense to be running Biden.

If all that matters is beating trump, why force a candidate that supports genocide? Why is it ok for Dems if trump is worse? Why not at least someone that people like and is a good speaker?

Like, you understand someone slightly less bad as trump is still pretty fucking bad?

Where do you draw the line if you’ll support “some” genocide?

If it was trump VS Mitch McConnell who would you vote for? Would you finally realize it’s the parties that need voters, not voters that need parties?

xmunk ,

Here’s the bad news - the primary is over. Administratively, if we switched Democratic candidates now there would be immense voter confusion and democrats would end up splitting the vote between the two.

The only way out of this is if Biden literally dies before the election, and I think that’s highly unlikely.

In terms of supporting genocide, America is going to genocide and part of being a responsible voter is making the least awful choice.

givesomefucks ,

Here’s the bad news - the primary is over

It’s not tho.

The convention is the end of the primary.

Biden appointed Jamie Harrison to the head of the DNC.

And Jamie Harrison set the convention for mid August.

If you don’t like it, go complain to them. But they picked when the primary was over.

xmunk ,

If someone else wins the convention I’ll pop a bottle of champagne but I think it’s nearly impossible. If you can get Whitehouse on the ballot though… I’ll buy the next round.

givesomefucks ,

So…

You don’t think it’s possible the DNC or Biden does the right thing to maximize our chances of beating trump?

The primary isn’t a real election. The DNC can just nominate someone else, they’ve been very open about it

And Biden can obviously just step aside.

Do you think they don’t care if trump wins? Or that they’d just rather that happen then a Dem candidate Dem voters want winning?

xmunk ,

I think it’d lead to vote splitting within the party if not done precisely correctly. We could essentially be looking at a Woodrow Wilson scenario.

givesomefucks ,

The party says who is on the ballot…

I really don’t think a significant amount of voters would write in Biden over any listed Dem.

rimu ,
@rimu@piefed.social avatar

Biden stumbled and lost the tread in the opening minutes but is doing well now.

Trump is doing a good job at being Trump. Pretty tired of him ignoring the question and talking about whatever he likes and the moderator letting him.

kromem ,

Ok. Now how do I unwatch it?

AFKBRBChocolate ,

Is it my imagination or are they moderators letting Trump go on while cutting Biden off most of the time?

I wish Biden would slow down, he’s getting flustered and can’t seem to find his words. Trump is just acting like it’s a rally, saying whatever the hell he wants and making shit up. This is ridiculous.

FireTower ,
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

The moderation seems like the best since at least Obama was running.

AFKBRBChocolate ,

It’s gotten better, and I agree. I’m really happy about them turning off the mics. But I still think they’re letting Trump ramble more than Biden.

crusa187 ,

MAGA bullied the moderators with threats of violence to prevent them from pushing back on Trump’s lies. Looks like it worked, they didn’t say jack shit.

CNN also made a big deal about live fact checking and did none of it during the debate. Corporate oligarchs licking their chops at the potential tax cuts with a 2nd Trump term, dictatorial ambitions be damned.

Batman , (edited )
@Batman@sopuli.xyz avatar

Holy fucked up choices… Why, why, why can we not, with our vast knowledge and speed of passing information in our fancy futuristic world, do some ranked choice, or any other voting style, that would actually give us a choice we might feel we have opted for?

My mind wasn’t changed on my choice I will have to make. But, wow, I feel like I might really be a responsible adult if this is what our chosen leaders look like in a live debate. I don’t like this feeling. It’s icky.

morphballganon ,

The reason is because republicans know they must prevent it, or they’ll become extinct.

AFKBRBChocolate ,

Oh my god, Trump just said “I’ve never seen anybody lie like this guy” and he wasn’t pointing at himself.

Wahots ,
@Wahots@pawb.social avatar

I really liked the part where he was trying to assure people that he probably, mayyyybe wouldn’t die in office, and ended by saying “We knock on wood wherever we may have wood” lmfao

AFKBRBChocolate ,

Trump’s lies have gotten so over the top. We’re like two steps away from him saying he was one of the guys who walked on the moon.

And his cult will believe it.

maynarkh ,

We stayed up to watch it here across the pond, made it to 10 minutes.

Seriously, WTF is going on over there? How are these two people the top candidates to represent 380 million people?

morphballganon ,

Conservative gerrymandering, court-stacking, purging voter rolls, propaganda etc

maynarkh ,

Okay, that explains Trump, but Biden?

morphballganon ,

DNC has gotten lazy as a result of First-Past-The-Post election style making them the least-crazy viable option.

bmsok ,

Worst debate in United States history.

BeMoreCareful ,

A lot of people are saying that. My staff told me that just before I came out here as a matter of fact. History’s worst debate in the history of the world. A lot of people are saying that.

xmunk ,

Trump claimed that his “Both sides” quote from Charlottesville was false… like, you’re literally on tape asshat.

skuzz ,

Snopes oddly released a “this is false” on that a few days ago.

Edit, found the link: www.snopes.com/…/trump-very-fine-people/

neoman4426 ,

The claim is he didn't call white supremacists and neo nazis fine people, just, you know, regular racists who happened to be at a rally planned by the white supremacists and neo nazis. Which is totally better.

credo ,

The poor performance and miserable result of this debate is not an indicator the format is bad, it is an indictment of our media circus that has given us these candidates in the first place.

This is proof our system is fucked and I hope to god we don’t “fix” this by going back to letting opponents talk all over each other just to put on a good an entertaining show.

Hello_there ,

Start an initiative for ranked choice voting

NotAnotherLemmyUser ,

I’d rather have “star” or “approval” voting, but I’ll take ranked choice voting over what we’ve currently got.

foggy ,

Yep. The only reason these two are candidates is because their names ignite anger, and anger gets people to interact. They sell ad space.

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