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Spotify CEO sparks backlash after social media post that claimed the cost of making "content" is "close to zero"

Spotify CEO Daniel Ek sparked an online backlash after a social media post in which he said the cost of creating “content” is “close to zero”.

The boss of the streaming giant said in a post on X: "Today, with the cost of creating content being close to zero, people can share an incredible amount of content. This has sparked my curiosity about the concept of long shelf life versus short shelf life.

"While much of what we see and hear quickly becomes obsolete, there are timeless ideas or even pieces of music that can remain relevant for decades or even centuries.

“Also, what are we creating now that will still be valued and discussed hundreds or thousands of years from today?”

Music fans and musicians were quick to call Ek out, with one user, composer Tim Prebble, saying: “Music will still be valued in a hundred years. Spotify won’t. It will only be remembered as a bad example of a parasitic tool for extracting value from other peoples music. (or “content” as some grifters like to call it).”

Musicians weighed in too, with Primal Scream bassist Simone Marie Butler saying: “Fuck off you out of touch billionaire.”

granolabar ,

I wonder how this pest values his own labor

todd_bonzalez ,
@todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee avatar

Look, he’s right, but he’s also full of shit.

Music Production used to require expensive equipment and a dedicated studio. Now anyone with a few hundred dollars can make quality musical recordings in their living room. The monetary cost of creating musical content is extremely low compared to all previous eras of the music industry.

The issue here is that he is making an argument for raising costs while cutting artist revenue by making music appear to have little to no value. This is an extremely poor decision, since most people who enjoy music don’t equate the value of the music they are listening to with the monetary cost it took to make it. It’s also a crazy argument to devalue your product while raising prices.

Given that Spotify lines its pockets by shoving music from the highest bidder down their customer’s throats (As everyone unwittingly listening to “Espresso” has surely learned over the past month), they clearly don’t care about the small players getting exposure.

If you care about small artists, quit Spotify and start using Soundcloud and Bandcamp. Actually discover small artists instead of relying on the largest corporate music algorithm on the planet to spoon-feed you.

nifty , (edited )
@nifty@lemmy.world avatar

“… what are we creating now that will still be valued and discussed hundreds or thousands of years from today?”

Well, there’s very little chance of memorable art to come into existence if artists are not paid fairly. Art takes time and effort, even for geniuses. If someone’s worried about becoming homeless or whatever, they’re not going to focus on their craft at the expense of health and safety, and even if they do what they produce will be suboptimal or unfocused.

So what’s the fair value of such things? I suppose there’s a number of ways to determine that, but it doesn’t matter if the platform that’s hosting an artist is not acting in good faith nor practicing fairness. Really, there should be an open source version of Spotify.

fishos ,
@fishos@lemmy.world avatar

While I get the desire for outrage and backlash, a generous reading of what he said would be something like “In the past, making music meant needing access to numerous instruments and equipment. Today, you can create the same kind of music with a cheap PC and some programs.”

He’s not attacking creativity or saying your time isn’t valuable. He’s saying the barrier to entry has dropped dramatically to the point that almost anyone that wants to create content, can.

Look at any medium and notice the wide array of tools now available to the average person. You can do Photoshop and video effects using entirely free programs for the most part. Or paying a fraction of what you’d have paid in the past for less features.

Under that reading, he’s absolutely correct.

But yeah, Spotify sucks, I get that. They don’t pay creators fairly. Absolutely. Don’t disagree with that.

GoodEye8 ,

I think it’s also pretty ironic to question how much current music will be valued after 100 years as Spotify is pivoting towards podcasts. Podcasts are easier to make than music and even quality podcast episodes are significantly less memorable than music.

Yerbouti , (edited )

I will keep repeating this over and over: Spotify hates artists. This douchebag CEO pays himself hundreds of millions for storing other’s music on a server, but thinks musicians are such losers they don’t deserved nothing. Fuck modern Internet, and fuck you especially Daniel. Your time is worth 15k a minute, but musicians should work for free so you have a “product” to sell? Fuck you loser, I will always be superior to you because unlike you, I can create things. You need me, I don’t need you.

Hackerman_uwu ,

As a bedroom producer who spent his children’s college money on analogue synths: go fuck yourself asshole.

librejoe ,

Your kids are not going to college but at least you got some sweet synths.

beefbot ,

“Will this be on Quibi?” - Philomena Cunk

A_Very_Big_Fan ,

This feels like an out of touch comment about AI tbh. I could be wrong but it’d make all of that make slightly more sense

unreasonabro ,

The value you provide to the world of music is less than zero, in fact it’s a debt to society you will never repay, congratulations on the proof of concept that stealing can be both legal and profitable though.

westyvw , (edited )

Seems like every time I look at internet companies the first thing that comes to mind is why is the labor not forming a collective?

If the artists owned the distribution via a artists collective at least the profits would be split up in some more fair fashion.

Same with food delivery.

Same with Video production and delivery (peer to peer with each creator adding a node if you want to go that route).

Same with car driving services

and so on.

Edit: i never thought that I would get a downvote on lemmy for suggesting maximum money and ownership in a product by the authors but here we are, lol!

beefbot ,

Idk how to tell you that lemmy proooobably isn’t all humans who have reasonable opinions at this point

SeaJ ,

I guess I don’t understand his point. Is he saying that making content is cheap (it’s not) so artists don’t need to be paid a lot? If content creation is cheap, why are they not the ones producing the music? It should be cheap for them to be their own label, right?

But shit, you would think the CEO of a company whose main product is streaming content would have some idea of the cost to produce that content. Recording studios do not exactly grow on trees and it’s not like audio engineers are working for free. I guess I don’t understand why he is paid so much since being an executive at a company does not require much expense.

RootBeerGuy ,
@RootBeerGuy@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

I think its one of two things. An out of touch way of saying that anyone could make a video or a song that becomes a hit and just out it online, visible for the world. Everyone has a phone and can record stuff themselves.

On the other hand it also sounds like he might mean, they (as in Spotify) don’t pay much for the content they show people. Not sure what the angle on that is though.

exanime ,

But shit, you would think the CEO of a company whose main product is streaming content would have some idea of the cost to produce that content

That’s just it, he is so fucking out of touch and high on his own jizz that he believes Spotify takes in billions in revenue because of the platform and not the music

aggelalex ,

He’s not wrong, the cost of making content is near zero, the cost of making art is not.

Rai , (edited )

Content: I strapped a camera on my face and got drunk and harassed randos in a country I’m not native to

Art: I wrote a song and played almost every instrument and also directed, shot, and edited the music video over the course of years*

rayquetzalcoatl ,
@rayquetzalcoatl@lemmy.world avatar

I literally just cancelled my membership with that shitty company yesterday! It sucks, I’ve used it daily for almost a decade, but I just can’t really deal with my money going to such publicly malicious and stupid executives any more. They can’t just not be arseholes for like two seconds.

Anyway, I need some alternative… Does anybody use anything else that they prefer? 👀🤞

Oddbin ,

What, the whole Joe Rogan bullshit didn’t tip you over but this did?

Tidal if you want to pay. YouTube Music with Revanced if you don’t.

rayquetzalcoatl ,
@rayquetzalcoatl@lemmy.world avatar

No, this didn’t. I cancelled yesterday, after reading about them just bricking one of their peripherals without offering refunds until the legal system threatened them. It’s just a straw that broke the camel’s back situation, rather than one big thing - the Rogan situation certainly contributed, though.

Tidal sounds like a good idea, thank you!

Potatos_are_not_friends ,

I absolutely cancelled after that Joe Rogan drama. I was already questioning why I needed Spotify. And seeing my subscription money go there, I bounced.

Now I’m watching more boneheaded moves and shaking my head.

vividspecter ,

Tidal turned me off by pushing that snake oil MQA format for years, although I believe they have been moving away from it in recent years.

Rai ,

I’ve never heard of that format, that’s hilarious.

Hackerman_uwu ,

Laugh quietly please. I still have a Meridian DAC that transcodes MQA. Among the gullible audiophile set there are tens of us. FML.

Rai ,

Torrent if you don’t lawl. Flac forever.

Also I know lemmy is DAE HATE APPLE but Apple Music is the shit, they have ultra high quality lossless for the base price and a gigantic selection. They don’t pay artists WELL, but they’re near the highest paying per stream. (I think tidal might actually be the highest)

TrickDacy ,
@TrickDacy@lemmy.world avatar

Fuck apple. A far worse company than Spotify

Rai ,

so brave

TrickDacy ,
@TrickDacy@lemmy.world avatar

Not as brave as defending one of the world’s largest companies!

boonhet ,

Apple Music worked well for me, but then it was worth the money as part of Apple One. If you’re not on iOS, you won’t have much use for Arcade or icloud storage though.

Whether Apple Music alone is worth it is up to OP though. IMO it is, but I now have YouTube Music instead, gets me access to a lot of music Spotify and Apple Music don’t have.

Rai ,

Interesting! I have an iPhone but I don’t use iCloud for anything because I don’t want my nudes online, and I don’t play games on my phone so I don’t have any use for Apple one hahaha

I’ve only failed to find one artist on Apple Music so far (DZK, an edgy YTMND/SA rapper from the mid-2000s) so I just torrented his music.

Senseless , (edited )

Just switched from Spotify to Tidal about 3 weeks ago. Their library is huge (even some tiny band project I once met at a festival in a german village back in 2018). They compensate the artist way better than Spotify and you can choose between different qualities up to 24 bit 192 kHz.

Prices are the same as Spotify.

Edit: If you have a paid subscription you can also import playlists from Spotify (or other common services)

jjjalljs ,

I know I say this a lot but Bandcamp is very good for some usage patterns.

I buy about one album a month for $10. Over the past four years, I now have accumulated a pretty decent library of music that’s mine to keep forever.

They do recommendations and articles that are (or feel like they are) written by real people.

Renting music kind of sucks.

vividspecter ,

Even though I don’t buy that many bandcamp albums, I do feel better about giving some obscure artist 10+ USD instead of pennies being spread amongst 1000s of artists (and much of that being sucked up by Spotify et al and major record companies).

gwildors_gill_slits ,

I like what Bandcamp does, but I don’t necessarily want to have to download every song/album I buy off there and store it on my phone, or open the app and manually select a song or album one at a time to listen to.

I wish there was a way to build playlists, or even a full featured streaming service similar to what Spotify offers that would pay artists a respectable cut for streaming but not necessarily purchasing albums.

It would be nice to have that option but I suppose there’s probably arguments against it, I’m not really that familiar with all the pros and cons from the artists’ perspective. Even just a song radio type option like Spotify has would be great, because I do find a fair bit of new music that way.

Also, in case people aren’t aware, Spotify was sold to Epic games a few years ago, and they sold it on to a music licensing company who then laid off 16% of Bandcamp’s employees. So I’m not sure how much longer it’s going to be a good place for indie musicians.I guess we’ll see though.

jjjalljs ,

They do let you make a playlist now, but only in the app. I imagine it’s something they were working on that didn’t get finished because of the layoffs. I’m real nervous that their new owners are going to shit it all up.

They do have like radio programs, and I think you can have it just play stuff from the music feed. I’m a little more album focused and intentional (ie: I want to listen to X, never a shuffle) so I haven’t needed much more than what they have.

gwildors_gill_slits ,

Oh, that’s cool then. I’ll have to go back and take a look as I hardly use the app.

I guess if the new company fucks it up (which lets face it, is a given) at least you get to keep the music you’ve already bought which is more than you can say for Spotify.

archomrade ,

If you are on any level tech savvy, you cam self-host your library on an app on your computer and use a client like symphoniam to play it.

It’s not hard to find a client that let’s you do all the same things as Spotify

franklin ,
@franklin@lemmy.world avatar

I just gave Bandcamp a look and was able to find some stuff that I wasn’t able to find anywhere else and got a chance to support the artist so that was pretty cool thanks.

librejoe ,

Bandcamp ftw. Love the platform. And I can get my music in flac!

kerrigan778 ,

Today, 1000 times Tidal, they give more money to the artists and they lowered their prices while everyone else raised them.

franklin ,
@franklin@lemmy.world avatar

I really like Deezer personally.

shasta ,

Deezer nuts!

dave ,
@dave@feddit.uk avatar

Deezer seems like the most expensive compared to Spotify and Tidal, and pays artists the least according to this: producerhive.com/…/streaming-royalties-breakdown/

Just curious what’s the added benefit?

franklin , (edited )
@franklin@lemmy.world avatar

I wasn’t aware of that to be honest I knew they were all pretty low but I didn’t know Deezer was the lowest.

I just like their app. Going to have to look into tidal I guess, although considering I haven’t really changed my music taste for a while, I might consider band camp at this point.

Actually you know what I’ve talked to myself into it. I’m just going to download my music with Bandcamp and use syncthing to have it wherever I need it. Thanks for the inspiration stranger

dave ,
@dave@feddit.uk avatar

No worries! I’m looking to move away from Spotify and so comparing was on my radar :). Think Tidal family with playlist import might keep the moaning from the rest of the clan down. But will check out bandcamp too.

franklin ,
@franklin@lemmy.world avatar

You got me!

Cornpop ,

Apple Music is great.

Rai ,

Apple Music fucking slaps, after getting some fancy headphones their Spatial Audio is insane. It’s a novelty, sure, but damn if it isn’t fucking dope in some songs.

ThirdWorldOrder ,

Apple Music also has music videos and their sound quality is high res. I used Tidal for a while but switched to Apple Music years ago and wouldn’t go back.

Zahille7 ,

I’ve been using a revanced version of YouTube music that works pretty damn well

WhatIsThePointAnyway ,

Apple Music - great audio quality, pay artists better than spotify.

ji17br ,

Brave man recommending anything Apple around these parts.

AnarchistArtificer ,

It’s nowhere near a full replacement to Spotify, but something that eased my switchover was Listenbrainz for open source music recommendations. It’s not as good as Spotify’s Discover Weekly playlists (yet!), but the greater transparency is worth it imo. I have the app from fdroid and it tracks what songs I’m listening to (especially useful if you connect it to a streaming app) and gives recommendations based on that.

I_Has_A_Hat ,

YouTube music has actually been pretty great, although I hear some people have issues with it’s algorithm. I got grandfathered in back when Google Music shut down and I honestly like it more than the old GM app at this point. Plus, you get YouTube Premium for free with it.

rayquetzalcoatl ,
@rayquetzalcoatl@lemmy.world avatar

Thanks for the suggestion! I remember GM back in the day, had loads of stuff on there :o I ended up going with Tidal for now, mostly because I also just can’t stand YouTube and don’t wanna give em money 😂

Kolanaki , (edited )
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

I mean, sure… I can pump out music all day every day and it cost me nothing to make.

It’s not gonna be good music though. It’s literally just going to be random notes and loops with no lyrics or actual instruments being recorded, strung together in a way that doesn’t cause your ears to bleed. Hopefully.

But hey, if that’s what Ek wants, he should make me an offer. 🤷🏻‍♂️

dustyData ,

Not even. You still need to afford to eat, a place to sleep, the music has to be made, recorded and served to people on something, a laptop or tablet at least which are not zero cost. You have to pay for the electricity and internet connection. Nothing has a cost of zero, especially nothing done by a human being. It’s just CEOs are used to discounting other people’s unpaid labor from their costs, so they think that labor is free and they’re entitled to it.

bpev ,

Oshit TIL I only spent money on my album because I’m a dumbass. If I were smart and produced it for free, I could have a whole $10 of net Spotify revenue.

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