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Aux ,

The less people - the less pollution. Everything’s going the way it should, relax.

Gradually_Adjusting ,
@Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world avatar

Ecofasism ☕

Aux ,

No, it’s nature’s self regulation. And every time humans intervene - the real shit happens. Just relax this time, for fucks sake.

Surreal ,

The house is on fire and this guy is sitting in the house telling people who’s trying to put the fire out to relax

Aux ,

You can’t put out the fire. YOU are the fire.

Gradually_Adjusting ,
@Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world avatar

Yikes to the max homie

Gork ,

You mean population reduction of poor and homeless people. The rich elites won’t be dying of heat stroke.

Aux ,

Well, don’t be poor, lol.

MoonHawk ,

This is a bad take… Regions affected with mass migration, people without solid infrastructure, AC or clean water, people not able to move are in danger. They are not the ones polluting. Hypothetically you have 50% less people. Great. Think about who is still there and if pollution really is in decline then.

Aux ,

It’ll work itself out in the end.

mayo ,
@mayo@lemmy.world avatar

Adapt or die, basically.

Aux ,

That’s how nature works.

mayo ,
@mayo@lemmy.world avatar

I know, but I wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end of it.

Kecessa ,

Problem is we’re on our way to reach a point where even if we stopped all our GHG emissions, just the melting of the ice caps and thawing of the permafrost will be enough to create a self sustaining global warming event.

Ryumast3r ,

If you’re talking about the Clathrate Gun hypothesis, that’s no longer considered relevant for the near-future climate crisis.

Aux ,

It’s ok. The planet right now is much cooler than it used to be.

Kecessa ,

“It’s ok, the planet is cooler than it was when it would have been uninhabitable for humans.”

Way to go 👍

Aux ,

Who cares about humans?

Kecessa ,

Maybe you should since you’re one…

Aux ,

Well, I don’t, sorry.

mayo ,
@mayo@lemmy.world avatar

Literally our entire human civilization occurs during a stable climate. If the earth were hotter we’d probably never have reached 8 billion, or if we did it would have been through another way. This is going to be a rough ride, especially for the kids.

Aux ,

Well, if it’s about the humans for you, then I have bad news for you…

mayo ,
@mayo@lemmy.world avatar

Nah that’s not it for me, but just that it will be the next generation whose will have it worse.

dojan ,
@dojan@lemmy.world avatar

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    ShakyPerception ,

    But… but without those heroic political figures, how will mega-corporations be allowed to continue maximizing profits.

    This type of shortsighted ignorance is what causes drops economic growth and allows communism to win.

    …. I’m being told that it’s now trans people, not communists that are the real threat.

    …. No, no wait it’s still communists. So both I guess?

    /s

    gAlienLifeform ,
    @gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world avatar

    Love the energy, but before posting anything on the internet you should imagine a prosecutor asking you to read it to a jury

    whoisearth ,
    @whoisearth@lemmy.ca avatar

    I’m stealing this. I’m seriously worried for the world. We are entering a new age of the diggers and levellers and that ended with the beheading of the king and no real change.

    We have a segment of the population that’s exceedingly frothing at the mouth and in some cases for very valid reasons but at the same time they have no plan and that’s scary. They want to scorch the earth instead of fix it.

    gAlienLifeform ,
    @gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m stealing this.

    Please do!

    I’m seriously worried for the world.

    Same :(

    We are entering a new age of the diggers and levellers and that ended with the beheading of the king and no real change.

    First of all, great reference, the English civil war is a fascinating period of history.

    But second of all, it wasn’t the diggers who chopped off Charles’ head, they basically never had any real influence on anyone. It was the nobility in parliament that did that (and honestly, Charles did it to himself by being such a stubborn pain in the ass for the nobility), and they were the same ones who didn’t have a plan/couldn’t really imagine a world without a king, which is why they basically forced Cromwell to be king in all but name and then crowned Charles’ son when Cromwell died.

    They want to scorch the earth instead of fix it.

    I can imagine a lot of scenarios where a bit of scorching is a necessary first step in fixing (but I can also imagine a lot of scenarios where scorching goes off the rails and/or starts cycles of vengeance, so, yeah, we’re seriously worried for the world and for good reason).

    whoisearth ,
    @whoisearth@lemmy.ca avatar

    Another amateur history buff?!

    I wasn’t implying the diggers chopped off Charles’ head. I was more hinting at he political turmoil at the time was very similar to what we see now and it scares me. Those who don’t pay attention to history are doomed to repeat it and we are collectively horrible at teaching people history!

    gAlienLifeform , (edited )
    @gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world avatar

    Fair enough, the emergence of groups like them is definitely a symptom of a stressed social system, it’s just I don’t think they’re often the actual cause of the stress, and sometimes listening to those radical groups is the only way to resolve the actual stress (e.g. abolitionists in the United States were right and we just needed to completely abolish slavery for moral and practical reasons but most everyone thought they were crazy until like 1863). I don’t think that really applies to the diggers (the English civil war was a bunch of rich people fighting for power by throwing mountains of poor people at each other who were never organized enough to have their own faction in that fight), but it might apply to our present-day situation (e.g. people like Pia Klemp make a lot of sense to me).

    On a related note, if you’re into the history of political upheavals, I highly recommend this podcast called Revolutions^1^ that actually did a season on the English Civil war and is just absolutely fantastic throughout it’s whole ridiculously long run.

    ^1^ best links for finding it depends on if you’re on a desktop, iOS, or Android device,

    Jeanschyso ,

    Sheeeesh, reading y’all’s conversation was more enticing than any history class I ever attended.

    VentraSqwal ,

    I would say the richest and most evil of us dooming our planet to a heated, hell hole of an apocalypse kind of deserves some emotional reaction. The lack of one by most of the population is probably why we won’t see change until it’s too late.

    masterofn001 ,

    It already is too late.

    The only thing we have left is to make sure the ones whi caused this suffer as immeasurably possible as the damage they’ve done. To make sure they do not enjoy one second of the remainder of their days.

    This includes any and all o&g execs. Every last shareholder. Every politician who has done nothing or invited this. Every one of them.

    Heads on sticks.

    masterofn001 ,

    Yes, judge, i said " we should just shoot the people who are actively killing us."

    What’s the problem here? It’s stand your ground / self defense at its finest.

    jackoneill ,

    100% tax on anything past 100 million or 100% of their head gets lopped off. That’s still an absurd amount of money for you and your family. Put the rest into growing your businesses and thus the economy, or give it to Uncle Sam for some socialized healthcare and UBI instead.

    PickTheStick ,

    Put the rest into growing your businesses

    That’s what they currently do. All of them. That’s the whole point in them owning/investing in a business. That’s how they sidestep so many taxes. Aside from a few (relatively) toys and houses, do you really think Musk or Bezos keep billions on hand in liquid form or physically owned objects?

    I have a friend with parents that owned their own business that wasn’t really all that large. It had a net profit of maybe $450,000 per year. They paid themselves enough to do whatever they wanted to that year, and the company “reinvests” the rest. It’s all a shell game to avoid taxes. They did it by buying real estate for the company to ‘eventually’ grow on, but just put five cows on and got themselves agricultural exemptions on taxes, then sold the land later. Repeat x100. That money from the sale could be shuffled into other ‘company’ assets. That’s super small time. They didn’t have fancy lawyers or investing agents to help.

    Big, rich, asshole business does it by buying back stock, diversifying (do you really think the big contractor company wants to own a grocery store chain, or a bank wants to own restaurants?) into assets that can just be sold later to recoup the money, etc.

    Owning a business is all about tax avoidance. An individual doesn’t have many ways to pump up deductions on taxes, but businesses have so many different avenues that even the IRS throws up their hands at some point. Requiring an individual to “put the rest into” their business won’t change anything, and god knows the economy improving is only going to help a small portion of society. That portion isn’t the portion that needs help.

    Also, truthfully, I’d lower your number to $10,000,000. It’s enough to live on even in the ritziest of areas, in the fanciest of houses that aren’t mansions, and is still more per year than the highest of the middle-class will earn in their lives.

    Saneless ,

    Let’s just all agree as humans to never convict someone who’s on trial for that

    mindbleach ,

    Between literal apocalyptic scenarios and open fascism, it’s hard not to picture the trolley problem. But we’re forced to pretend everyone’s acting in good faith. Like if we just try harder, words will work, all of a sudden.

    At some point we’re telling people not to “escalate” to violence against people shoving them onto the train. The shovers aren’t the ones killing them… directly. They’re just public servants, doing their job! So relax, get along, kumbayah, and get in the fuckin’ train.

    For some queer Americans that’s not an exaggerated comparison. The actual Nazis also targeted trans people, almost immediately. Decades of records on transition and therapeutic treatments were burned, by doctors, to protect those individuals from murderous bigots. Nowadays it wouldn’t even work because that’s all digital. And the elected bastards talking about accessing teen girls’ period apps to detect pregnancy are the exact same bastards talking about globe-spanning temperature data like detecting a trend is impossible.

    wazoobonkerbrain ,

    I think I agree with you on all those points but that was one rollercoaster of a post.

    mindbleach ,

    Exciting times will do that.

    Hbombone ,

    Are you playing a character? You’re acting like the stereotypical leftist who is perpetually online and has no concept of what the real world is like.

    Your little rant is some of the most unhinged shit I’ve ever read

    mindbleach ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    PlantbasedChe ,

    I am glad we have lemmy. In Reddit you could have been banned even acting on a based self defense

    Bagofbuttholes ,

    On reddit I was banned for suggesting it would be better to force change now than wait until things are even worse.

    30mag ,

    How many of these people are migrants left to die in the desert by unscrupulous coyotes?

    SheeEttin ,

    Does it matter?

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    Did you mean CBP?

    30mag ,

    Sure

    VoxAdActa ,
    @VoxAdActa@kbin.social avatar

    Oh, some percentage of the dead people are brown or brownish? Well, that makes it all ok then!

    Drusas ,

    Seems like OP was going for the opposite effect, expressing empathy for the people who are abandoned in the desert.

    30mag ,

    You’re putting words in my mouth.

    30mag ,

    I forgot that everyone in Arizona is white except undocumented immigrants.

    baruchin ,
    @baruchin@lemmy.world avatar

    So it doesn’t count then?

    mayo ,
    @mayo@lemmy.world avatar

    I think 30mag was bringing attention to another somewhat related issue, it’s just slightly off topic.

    AngryBear ,

    Ironically the oil companies back in the 60’s, did an extensive research into what exactly would happen to the climate and ecology etc, if they kept drilling for and using fossil fuel etc. It’s so accurate that even todays models aren’t that good (I find that fact odd), but bottomline, they knew… they knew, but kept on doing it anyway.

    azthec ,

    This sounds interesting. Do you have sources for these studies and models?

    SeaJ ,

    They are likely referring to Exxon’s research. I think they started research in the 70s which spread the earth would warm with an increase in CO2. They did quite a few studies (that they kept internal) and a good chunk of them were as good of not better than NASA’s climate models. They are not as good as our current models though. But considering they have denied CO2 linked climate change despite their own research showing it for the past 50+ years, they can go fuck themselves.

    theguardian.com/…/exxon-climate-change-global-war…

    AngryBear ,

    nos.nl/…/2373196-shell-wist-al-in-1968-dat-gebrui…

    A Dutch site, but with a bit of translation applied it should be perfectly readable from Dutch to English. Also you are not bombarded with ads unlike the original the guardian link, they link to that article and so it’s available if preferred.

    azthec ,

    Leuk, dank je

    pigup ,

    Maybe we should burn more fossil fuels about it

    PlantbasedChe ,

    And keep eating meat. “Good karma”

    RobBanks ,
    @RobBanks@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I mean sure, but greenhouse gasses from agriculture are tiny compared to fossil fuels.

    Piecemakers3Dprints ,
    @Piecemakers3Dprints@lemmy.world avatar

    B-b-b-but what about the bitcoins? Hurdur.

    RobBanks ,
    @RobBanks@sh.itjust.works avatar

    ?

    Piecemakers3Dprints ,
    @Piecemakers3Dprints@lemmy.world avatar

    Sorry, I was adding to, not detracting from your statement. Consumer shaming runs deep in this era, and corpo greed fuels it, agreed.

    Vegoon ,

    www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aba7357

    To have any hope of meeting the central goal of the Paris Agreement, which is to limit global warming to 2°C or less, our carbon emissions must be reduced considerably, including those coming from agriculture. Clark et al. show that even if fossil fuel emissions were eliminated immediately, emissions from the global food system alone would make it impossible to limit warming to 1.5°C and difficult even to realize the 2°C target. Thus, major changes in how food is produced are needed if we want to meet the goals of the Paris Agreement.

    RobBanks ,
    @RobBanks@sh.itjust.works avatar

    estation, which release carbon dioxide (CO2) and nitrous oxide (N2O); production and use of fertilizers and other agrichemicals, which emit CO2, N2O, and methane (CH4); enteric fermentation during the production of ruminants (cows, sheep, and goats), which emits CH4; production of rice in paddies, which emits CH4; livestock manure, which emits N2O and CH4; and combustion of fossil fuels in food production and supply chains, which emits CO2. In total, global food system emissions averaged ~16 billion tonnes (Gt) CO2 equivalents year−1 from 2012 to 2017 (4).

    Seems like going vegan wouldn’t help. Yours still have deforestation, fertilizer, rice paddies, and fossil fuels in production.

    Vegoon ,

    Plant based diets use 75% less land, less fertilizer, no manure which is destroying the water. With a plant rich diet we could reduce GHG from 1500 gt to 708.

    I think you should re-read the paper.

    RobBanks ,
    @RobBanks@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Once the huge corporations do their part to stop killing the planet, I’ll consider going vegan. Until then I’ll put the pressure where it matters most.

    Vegoon ,

    Have you done your own research what matters most or do you go with science?

    www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aba7357

    According to the IPCC going vegan is the biggest single step one can take.

    Cosmocrat ,

    I’ve been seeing a lot of “Eat Beef” bumper stickers in my area. Doesn’t give me any high hopes.

    Prandom_returns ,

    Just shoot at it with all the guns.

    BilboBargains ,

    Cause of death heatstroke with diabeetus and obesity.

    riodoro1 ,
    1. Build cities in the desert
    2. Heat up climate
    3. ???
    4. Oh god what have I done
    LearysFlyingSaucer ,

    A few years of never going outside before the power infrastructure finally overloads and no more air conditioning.

    talldangry ,

    Letting the days go by!
    Let the water all dry up
    Letting the days go by!
    Water flowing underground?!
    Into the alfalfa, until the money’s gone
    Once in a lifetime! Lake Mead’s looking more like ground.

    md5crypto ,

    Arizonans just need to learn to hop better. 😀 👍

    milkjug ,
    @milkjug@lemmy.world avatar

    Kids nowadays are so fragile with your participation trophies and dying from touching the ground. In my day, we pull up our bootstraps and head for the coal mines, then lie down on asphalt to nap like Real Men™ do.

    /s if it isn’t blatantly obvious.

    dgilluly ,

    You can always count on the right winged politicians and voters to prepare for disasters instead of trying to prevent them.

    doctorplasmatron ,
    @doctorplasmatron@lemmy.ca avatar

    i think you forgot the “/s”

    dgilluly ,

    I think the fact that it’s sarcasm is a given. For that reason I didn’t see a need to use it.

    Ni ,
    @Ni@kbin.social avatar

    We desperately need regulation for people and workers in extreme temperatures. We'll be dealing with more and more of it as times goes on so the protections need to be in place.

    Skunk ,

    And regulations for less pavement, concrete etc and more green and trees to provide shade and cooler temperatures.

    You can live in extreme temperatures, provided the infrastructures are built for that (ie. Ouarzazate in Morocco).

    But with the US urban planning and all for cars policy it won’t happen before it’s too late.

    Ni ,
    @Ni@kbin.social avatar

    There was an interesting study done on a city hear me which said that the lack of trees and general built design of the area had made the city's temp go up by between 2-5C. Which is a big difference!

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    I am starting Guerrilla gardening club. You are welcome to join. No membership dues, no pledging, just starting planting

    gAlienLifeform ,
    @gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world avatar

    And regulations to provide for the humane resettlement of climate refugees

    STRIKINGdebate2 ,
    @STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world avatar

    Trees and green in the US southwest a pipedream tbh. The only way that could possibly be achieved is by siphoning off a ridiculous amount of water from another location. Call it as it is. The US Southwest isn’t built to sustain human life.

    WhipperSnapper ,
    @WhipperSnapper@lemmy.ml avatar

    “Pheonix is a monument to man’s arrogance”, as King of the Hill said.

    It’s one of those places I think about sometimes, wondering “do people really need to live everywhere”?

    Malfeasant ,

    There has been talk of diverting water from the Mississippi river (or was it the Missouri?) and somehow transporting it across the continental divide to the southwest. Terrible idea, I might be worried if it wasn’t so far outside the realm of possibility.

    WhipperSnapper ,
    @WhipperSnapper@lemmy.ml avatar

    Aren’t all of the major waterways, or at least a good portion of them, facing water level challenges as is?

    ButtonMcLemming , (edited )
    @ButtonMcLemming@lemmy.world avatar

    In my opinion, the only solution, although radical, would be to make motorists’ lives a living hell (charging for road or parking lot use, lowering speed limits to increasingly slow levels, removing on-street parking lots, prioritizing bicyles and buses, reducing bus fare prices, and converting excess parking lots to new neighborhoods) that public transport (i.e. metro and local commuter trains) and bicycle paths can be considered to reduce road traffic with the budget allocated to making new roads or maintaining currently existing ones allocated to improving the public transport system and even providing a bicycle route network that can allow us to follow in the Netherlands’ footsteps.

    johnnixon ,

    Is there a source that doesn’t require me log into Twitter?

    darkmatter ,

    Sir, this is a screenshot

    mayo ,
    @mayo@lemmy.world avatar

    Mr. Nixon may want to sneak into Twitter and see it for himself

    LambdaDuck ,

    the screenshot says “Financial Times” at the bottom left and “Source: FT analysis of CDC WONDER” in the bottom right

    michel ,
    @michel@lemmy.ml avatar

    Here you are:

    archive.is/amobN

    Courtesy of this Mastodon toot

    mastodon.social/

    johnnixon ,

    Thanks. Some screenshot of a tweet isn’t a source, but what you posted was.

    Sterile_Technique ,
    @Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world avatar

    Wake me up when it’s guillotine day.

    md5crypto ,

    Day of the rope? The guillotine is too nice.

    Tb0n3 ,

    That has a different connotation. You might want to look where it came from.

    www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/day-rope

    pinkdrunkenelephants ,

    Nah, fuck them both. Put the oil execs outside in the heat and let them roast.

    SeaJ ,

    Are you seriously referencing the neo Nazi Turner Diaries?

    eatisaiy ,

    impressive, good job

    MystikIncarnate ,

    I just want to say that graphs like this should be contrasted with the number of deaths from extreme cold. I know Arizona probably doesn’t have the numbers of say, Alaska, but it’s worthy of note to contrast the two.

    I’d also point out that it is far easier for an individual to protect themselves against the rigors of cold than it is for heat; in the cold, with warm clothing, you can keep yourself warm, while the environment is very cold; fire is relatively easy to make, even if you have little more than sticks, and thus getting warm or keeping yourself warm is by and large easier to accomplish than staying cold.

    When you’re in an extremely hot environment, it’s not like you can make yourself more naked than naked. You need some outside influence to keep you cool, like a swamp cooler, a misting sprayer, a cool body of water (like a river or lake), or some kind of man-made cooling device like an Air Conditioner, in a relatively sealed enclosure (which relies on consistent access to power to run it). most of these are either inaccessible to people in a city or built-up area; sure, there are fixtures, like fountains that contain water, usually not enough to keep them from heating up, and usually the water is recycled, so the heat stays with the water. all other water access is typically restricted to water lines, which usually someone is paying for, and nobody wants to pay to keep random people cool when they don’t have to. All man-made (air conditioner) type cooling is generally access restricted to either workplaces, homes, or businesses/storefronts, where the expectation is that you’ll be spending money there (which not everyone has).

    I’m just saying, that the limiting factor to reducing death by extreme heat, is a far larger one, than death by extreme cold, where you should only need to hand out sweaters, gloves/mittens, jackets, blankets, etc, to keep people from dying from it. There’s far-end extreme cold that almost nothing will save you from short of a heated structure, but generally, places that are inhabited by people who don’t have access to safe heat and cooling (like a home), are more temperate than that extreme of cold… not exactly too many homeless people walking around the arctic or Antarctic circles…

    Neither is good, but both seem inevitable; regardless we should be doing all we can to help to ensure the survival of everyone, as a species. Whether that’s saving them from the heat, the cold, from starvation or dehydration, we should be helping in any way we are able to.

    sukhmel ,

    To be honest, I lost track of what was your point except for the fact that we need to pair the graph with one about extreme cold deaths

    Fedizen ,

    Climate change is just getting started and people should start suing cities and design firms for failing to include shade requirements in their standards and for making roads too wide to properly shade

    Where natural shade can’t be sustained artificial shade needs to be provided.

    The single family house on a grass lawn is such a stupid idea in many places

    LearysFlyingSaucer ,

    I wish, but I just know the segregationist city planners in my town will just lay down more asphalt and gated suburbs. We don’t even have sidewalks or crosswalks even though there’s people walking/biking everywhere. They intentionally make our towns unlivable.

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