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matcha_addict ,

Meta: Is this community for US specific news or just any news?

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

Yes.

Aceticon , (edited )

To “Keep Trump out” there are only two realistic options: either one single person, Joe Biden, changes his actions as POTUS (starting with his continued material support for the Genocide in Palestine) or millions of Americans have to go against their principles and vote for him.

It seems to me that if the members of the Democrat-tribe doing the rounds telling people they “should vote for Biden otherwise Trump wins” genuinelly wanted to “Keep Trump out” they would instead be pressing hard for that one, single man to start listenning to voters and act differently, rather than go for the much, much harder option of getting millions of Americans to swallow their principles so that this one single man can keep on acting the same way he does now.

Seems to me that keeping Trump out is secondary to Biden not having to listen to voters and continue to act freely as he feels like, even if that’s so against the wishes of millions of Americans that previously voted for him that they even find those actions unprincipled and repugnant.

Clbull , (edited )

The Democrats honestly brought this on themselves.

Bernie Sanders was by far the most popular candidate in 2016, but Hillary ultimately won the nomination purely on superdelegates because the system is crooked and apparently the Clinton dynasty had to continue. It’s a substantially different world, and the Clintons have heavily fallen out of public favour, which is why Hillary failed to get elected.

Sanders had another chance in 2020, this time the party members threw Bernie under the bus and chose to counter one senile fossil with another.

Yes Bernie Sanders would’ve been the oldest candidate, but Biden hasn’t exactly aged gracefully and seems to be even more forgetful than Trump.

I don’t think Biden has a chance of winning this year’s election unless by some landmark supreme court miracle, Trump is struck off from the ballot and the Republican Party is forced to hastily select another candidate. Even then I think someone like Ted Cruz, Jeb Bush, Ron DeSantis or Rick Santorum would thrash Biden in the polls.

And if Trump wins, I fear the Fascist takeover that will follow.

SuddenDownpour ,

Hillary Clinton won the primaries by popular vote by 55% to 43%. If you want to point at some shitfuckery against Sanders, you first have to look at a mass media that has historically ignored the interests and issues of working class people, promoted people and opinions that would argue against any kind of large change, and given better coverage to non-leftist candidates, because the owners to that media want it to defend their own interests, not serve as neutral vehicles of discussions in a democratic society.

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

Biden hasn’t exactly aged gracefully and seems to be even more forgetful than Trump.

Can’t forget if you never knew! 🤯☝️

deliberalization ,
@deliberalization@lemmy.ml avatar

He did know he was very openly racist

chitak166 ,

Running Biden is the best thing democrats can do to guarantee a Trump presidency.

Aceticon ,

The two main alternatives to not elect Trump are:

  • The one, single man who is the current President of The United States Of America, can change what he’s doing on a number of subjects, including his active continued material support for the Israeli Genocide, to get the votes.
  • Millions of people can go against their principles and vote for that man so that Trump doesn’t win.

Logically it would be much easier to achieve the objective of Trump not getting elected by the solution of that one, single man to change how he acts as President of The United States Of America, than by the solution of the millions of people turned of by the actions of that man as POTUS to ignore their Principles and vote for that man.

Surelly if the people loudly demanding that others ignore their Principles and vote for Biden so that Trump doesn’t win had indeed only “make sure Trump isn’t elected” as the purest of motivations and were not at all driven by tribalism, they would be concentrating their pressure not on the millions it takes to convince to win the vote via that solution but on that, one, single man, who persists in acting in a way that turns millions off from voting for him.

For an outsider like me, the persitence on the “lets convince millions” option instead of “lets loudly demonstrate on the streets against Biden until he acts differently” looks like pure mindless tribalism of “The Chief is always right and even if he isn’t he’s our Chief so we’ll stand by him” kind. (Totally valid. Just don’t be a hypocrite and claim it’s about making sure Trump doesn’t win, as that objective can way, WAY, WAY more easilly be achieved by your Chief starting to trully listen to those whose votes he wants).

agitatedpotato , (edited )

The kicker is Democrats dont win elections by appealing to the Republicans. The republicans didn’t make their mind on logic, they’re not gonna vote blue because Biden looks like a Republican, they’re far more tribal than that. Democrats win the elections where they energize their base and increase voter turnout.

But instead of energizing the base, they inch rightwards because their political donators just love it when that happens, and more than most of the top enshrined Democrats are from states that would never vote Republican or have guaranteed DNC jobs lined up if they do. When Trump was in office, Democrats were able to raise MORE money because of how scared people are. I really dont think the decision makers in the Democratic party cares if they lose the majority or the presidency because they’re still taken care of at the end of the day.

So tldr: Democrats dont win by moving to the right but they make more money when they do, and they make lots of money when they lose.

pachrist ,

I think for someone as advanced in age and tired as Biden is, he needs a truly inspiring VP candidate. He stepped up when we needed him and beat Trump, but Biden also needed to be a one term president as a stopgap for the next generation, but like every other Democrat politician, he’s hanging on too long, and we’ll pay the price.

I get they tried this with Kamala Harris, to some extent, but she has squandered the opportunity. I’d consider myself fairly well informed, above average for sure, and I’d struggle to name 5 things she’s done in the last 3 years.

LowtierComputer ,

I think part of the issue is that whatever it is she has done has not stuck in the news.

DragonTypeWyvern ,

Because she was deliberately sidelined for being ferociously unpopular.

hydrospanner ,

I think this is closer to reality than many people realize.

I mean, the entire red half of the country doesn’t like her for being one or more of: female, black, Democrat. So that’s half.

Then even among the blue half, she’s got a reputation as a fairly moderate dem whose “tough on crime” shtick falls flat with most progressives who are, to one degree or another, ambivalent at best toward police if not outright hostile. For most who watched the primary debates, I think she came across as tone deaf and incredibly fake and forced.

On paper, she may have seemed like an ideal VP pick for Biden, being black and female, presumably helping him with those two demographics. While I have no data to back it up, to me, on the campaign trail, she didn’t seem to connect with either of those demographics, and usually just faded into the background, her job seemingly going no deeper than, “Stand there and make Biden look more progressive” even though the two of them were probably the least progressive faces in the primaries.

That said, I think she still has better than even odds of being his running mate again next year.

ChaoticEntropy ,
@ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk avatar

Relying on the anti-Trump vote is pretty ineffectual with an anti-Biden vote growing.

TangledHyphae , (edited )

I was going to say this, the way Biden is handling the border crisis is turning a lot of NYC, Chicago, and Denver voters off (and more, those are just hit pretty hard lately.) EDIT: Check out the mayor of NYC’s polling numbers. They are the lowest since polling began. It is the worst administration in NYC’s history because of the migrant crisis handling. I can confirm with links but not sure what good that would do if people have made up their own minds.

SasquatchBanana ,

What’s he doing with the border crisis? I thought abetting the genocide is the bigger factor in his dropping approval rating.

hydrospanner ,

Without commenting on the situation itself, I feel like sentiments toward it might indeed be hurting his numbers now but won’t have any significant impact 22 months from now. American voters have short memories when it comes to things that don’t materially affect them.

violetraven ,
@violetraven@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Is this the border crisis coming from Canada that happens every election season? I miss when no one gave a shit.

ChaoticEntropy ,
@ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk avatar

Oh yeah. The border crisis. That’s the real kicker.

So many 2020 voters picked Biden for his border commitments.

GiddyGap ,

Those are all areas in states that are safe Democratic in the Electoral College. It’s worse if it turns off Democrats in swing states who may not show up on election day.

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

There is no border crisis. It’s a made up story by Fox News. Really it’s just business as usual down there. Billions of dollars of legal commerce flowing across every day.

TangledHyphae ,

www.cbp.gov/…/cbp-enforcement-statistics

Are you suggesting that CBP is lying about numbers? The data is there, 350k+ encounters in the last 7 days. Unless Customs and Border Patrol is a wing of Fox News. I swear it’s so easy for people to just flippantly say “the other side!” while ignoring the truth.

chitak166 ,

Really? It seems to me Joe’s support of the Palestinian Genocide is hurting him more than any made-up fox news bullshit.

eran_morad ,

I get it. He’s old, he’s on the “wrong side” of Israel/Palestine, etc. Doesn’t fucking matter. It’s a binary choice, you got Brandon or you got trump. And if you can’t accept that stark reality, you’re probably too stupid to impose your opinion on others.

lingh0e ,

Know who else is on the wrong side of the Israel/Palestine conflict? No matter who wins, Palestinians lose, because a Trump administration will absolutely let the IDF go gloves off.

eran_morad ,

The real problem here is that the majority of voting Americans have been manipulated by narrow interests to support the wrong side. Fucking idiots and their fairy tales.

go_go_gadget ,

The real real problem is the millions of people who voted for Joe Biden in the 2020 primaries forcing us all into this situation today. Fuck those people.

bigMouthCommie ,
@bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

Democrat primary voters don't matter

eran_morad ,

You gotta be dumber than dogshit if you think any prez from either party wouldn’t do exactly as Brandon is doing. Why the fuck do you think he’s doing this? hint: it’s because he’d lose more votes if he didn’t support Israel.

go_go_gadget ,

it’s because he’d lose more votes if he didn’t support Israel.

Then all the people who said we can push Biden to the left were lying and I’m not going to vote for him again.

eran_morad ,

Have fun shooting yourself in the dick.

go_go_gadget ,

Have fun defending people voting for procorporate trash in the 2020 primaries.

eran_morad ,

I’m not defending anyone. Your grasp on reality seems tenuous.

go_go_gadget ,

Does that mean you agree people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries are selfish pieces of shit?

nonailsleft ,

Because they want a better country (than the alternative)?

go_go_gadget ,

There were much better options in the 2020 primaries. There was no good reason to vote for Joe Biden.

nonailsleft ,

Sorry, I reacted like we were talking about those that voted for him in the general

Still, I don’t think everyone that voted for him in the primaries is by definition evil and trying to sabotage the Left. Some of them are just plain dumb or uninformed. For example, I read/saw a short interview with an African American whose sole reason to vote Biden was that he played second Fiddle to a black president for eight years and he thought he should be rewarded for it. Goes to show you what we’re up against, dunnit

go_go_gadget ,

Hey, I can forgive someone who’s just not very bright giving a bad reason. I’m not gonna be mad at someone who doesn’t know any better.

But the vast majority did so because they felt like Bernie, Warren and whoever else are just “too far to the left” or “the other candidates didn’t have as much of a chance in the general”. Anyone who provides a reason like that is straight up acknowledging they are intentionally voting against progressives and leftists. And they have the gall to turn around and pretend we’re on the same side in the general? No. They can go fuck themselves.

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

Wow! You must be very small and very sad to have this one single issue let you sell out your country to a dictator.

go_go_gadget ,

People have been very vocal about multiple issues with Biden. You just aren’t paying attention.

SPRUNT ,

They’re both on the wrong side.

Hackerman_uwu ,

How about if we try it like this: Israel is a satellite wing of the US army.

SPRUNT ,

Now all 3 are wrong.

It also seems kinda redundant.

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

IDF won’t have to because America will enter a hot war with Iran because Trump is an actual Zionist.

DragonTypeWyvern ,

Trump is literally out there quoting Hitler. He is not a Zionist, not even in the Christian Nationalist “we need Israel to exist to start the Rapture” kind of Zionist.

nonailsleft ,

Do you think he knows he’s using the same words as Hitler?

nilloc ,

I think he admires the words of Hitler (and the unfettered power it briefly afforded him), but there’s a possibility Trump’s too senile to realize he’s now using Hitler’s words directly.

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, where does he get his money from then I wonder?

lingh0e ,

Trump will enter such a situation because he wants to build a resort somewhere for money laundering purposes, not because he is beholden to any specific faith or idealogy.

kofe ,

🎶you really gonna make me vote for Joe Biden?🎶

TangledHyphae ,

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGmXGkIr7w0

Just going to drop this here for those that didn’t get that reference.

flicker ,

The first time I heard this it was the music set to a dude with a really displeased face doing a dance. It was glorious.

chitak166 ,

It does matter, though.

That’s what democrats still haven’t realized.

Maybe a 2nd trump presidency will teach them.

candybrie ,

That’s not the lesson learned by Trump winning. The learned lesson would be Joe Biden isn’t enough like Trump and the democrats need to be further right to win.

chitak166 ,

So they can recruit more conservatives?

What makes you think a significant number of people who voted for Trump will ever consider voting for a democrat?

candybrie ,

I don’t think that. But that’s the lesson that gets learned. Why did Biden get the nomination? Because he was “electable.” What did primary voters decide electable meant? The most milquetoast and “center” candidate of the bunch. Trump winning doesn’t push Democrats to be progressive or bold. It pushes them away from that. Only when they feel they have huge majorities do they do anything verging on progressive.

chitak166 ,

It pushes them away from that.

All it did was cause them to run the exact same candidate that lost to Trump but this time with a penis.

werefreeatlast ,

I’m voting Biden, but again, we are here because Biden is fucking old. The Democrats should have made an effort to bring in new candidates. The only reason to keep Biden in place is to keep Trump off. But also the wars happening now are all from Biden’s generation. So maybe it’s fine, he should fix those things.

vanontom , (edited )
@vanontom@lemmy.world avatar

We had a vigorous primary, many interesting candidates in '19-20 (Bernie leading easily until SC, Warren backstab, pandemic). Before Super Tuesday, Democrat primary voters were told to unite around Biden, and they did. So that was… weird, but maybe I can blame pandemic.

Biden’s been more progressive than I would’ve imagined, and is surrounded by decent people, so I’m not concerned about his ancient brain quite yet. The other option is… religious fascism, destruction of govt, civil war, T**** family dictatorship, etc. Let’s go Brandon, I guess.

werefreeatlast ,

Yeah, I just hope he lasts the next 4 years. Meanwhile hopefully we do end up with better candidates. Bernie would have been a heck of a president. We need a Bernie that is 30 years old.

Corkyskog ,

They could convince Taylor Swift to run. Not sure what the office would do to her ego though. She already is like pseudo royalty. Also not sure if we want another billionaire to run. I think she might even be old enough in time for her coronation ahem, inauguration.

werefreeatlast ,

President TeTe!

rambaroo ,

Dem primary voters are gigantic cowards and always have been.

PriorityMotif ,
@PriorityMotif@lemmy.world avatar

It’s rich fuckers that live in and near cities that don’t see themselves as racist even though they are. They just want the status quo without feeling bad about it.

go_go_gadget ,

Fuck everyone who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries.

Rhoeri ,
@Rhoeri@lemmy.world avatar

…said the trumper.

go_go_gadget ,

Call me whatever you want. If you don’t need my vote then ignore me. If you do then fucking pay attention.

Rhoeri ,
@Rhoeri@lemmy.world avatar

Look kid. You do what you want. It’s your vote. That’s what democracy is. But don’t get used to it. Because when it’s gone, it won’t be illegal to blame you for it.

fathog ,

Anybody who doesn’t like the rape apologist supports Trump 😭😭😭

Everyone seems to hate Clarence Thomas but doesn’t seem to remember Biden grilling Anita Hill.

It’s almost like the guy above you is complaining that we had many better options during the 2020 primary, but people like you voted for a dogshit candidate that is literally losing in the polls to an overt fascist.

So when democracy is gone, I personally will blame people who saw how much a threat Trump was and thought fucking Joe Biden was the best choice.

go_go_gadget ,

Exactly. And if you ask people why they voted for Joe Biden they’ll come right out and say it: They wanted to fight against the interests of progressives and leftists. Then they have the gall to turn around and act like we’re on the same side in the general.

fathog ,

Never ask a Biden supporter why Buttigieg is Secretary of Transportation

go_go_gadget ,

Look kid.

Look Boomer. You voted for a procorporate trash candidate in the 2020 primaries. That was your decision. You’re responsible for how they do in the general election. I’m not responsible for how your garbage candidate performs.

riodoro1 ,

Maybe fucking lock him behind bars next time. You know, he commited an insurrection or something.

Oh, I forgot, he has rich friends so its impossible. Rule of law my ass.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

And put Genocide Joe in the cell next to him for crimes against humanity.

dangblingus ,

Right alongside every other president that ever served as POTUS.

ReallyActuallyFrankenstein ,

Yup. Trump is polling way too well for anyone to treat this as a typical election where common sense wins the day.

Many voting blocs apparently can no longer see the plain, stupifyingly obvious lies, fascism and narcissism dripping from every speech he has given for the last 8 years. We’re slow-walking to the end of American democracy.

This election year will be exhausting for us all, but if there’s ever a time to put everything into it, it’s now and it’s this election.

Pratai ,

Ignore the polls and vote.

lingh0e ,

He’s polling well because the only people who still respond to polls are shitheel boomers.

CADmonkey ,

Say it again for the people at the back. When was the last time you answred a phone call from a political surveyor?

Pratai ,

There are so many MAGAtrumpers here with the “gEnOciDE jOe” nonsense that are seemingly unaware that their believed king will do the exact same thing, only with him- they get a side-order of bigotry, racism, oppression, tyranny, and cowardice.

I hope you will all be happy with your lateral move on this single-issue decision. Because YOU will be who gets the blame when Trump wins the throne.

mightyfoolish ,

Maga people don’t say that. It’s the progressives that use “Genocide Joe”. Democrats: We will support Israel. Republicans: Gaza will be a parking lot. Progressives: The two main options are the same but worded differently.

Trump has supporters because the nominees he ran against are garbage.

Trump was able to cause Jan 6 because enough people who hate Democrats kept getting Republican nominees pushed in to take over the Judicial and Executive branches. Trump is a symptom and the Democrats are not the solution.

Lightrider ,

Defeat

Pratai ,

Defeat .

RobertOwnageJunior ,

Defeat .

eran_morad ,

idiots

RizzRustbolt ,

Obama to Biden: “There’s room on the right.”

go_go_gadget ,

Exactly. People in here keep pretending Democrats “want” to move to the left. They don’t. They love being procorporate fascist light pieces of shit.

electric_nan ,

Lol

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