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Arthur_Leywin ,

I hope this becomes a more popular idea, I fucking hate tipping so much that I stopped going to restaurants.

Roccobot ,
@Roccobot@lemmy.world avatar

Since Lemmy is trying to be better than Reddit, can we agree that titles should be like ‘5 US states…’? Not every person that reads news here lives in the United States 🕊️

derpgon ,

Americans are so self centered that they think anything in English is automatically based in the US unless said otherwise.

Arthur_Leywin ,

Are there other countries that have"states" and not provinces?

filefly ,

Yes.

Arthur_Leywin ,

Can you name a few…?

Schmuppes ,

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federated_state#List_of_con…

It’s not that hard to find if you’re genuinely interested in learning about it.

Arthur_Leywin ,

I’m not interested, I just want to be proven wrong.

Schmuppes ,

Go figure.

Arthur_Leywin ,

Nice.

Roccobot ,
@Roccobot@lemmy.world avatar

many federal countries have states. Examples: Mexico, Brazil

Arthur_Leywin ,

Oh shit I didn’t know Mexico had states o.o I assumed it would be a lesser known country.

dangblingus ,
  1. Restaurants lobby US government to pay their staff less than minimum wage
  2. Restaurants tell customers if they want better service, they should tip their server
  3. Customers begrudgingly begin tipping their servers
  4. Sexually attractive female servers in their early 20s absolutely destroy, making people think there’s a scam at work (seriously, I’ve seen girls I’ve worked with go on back to back WEEKEND vacations to Cancun on their tips, and I live in Canada, but it’s not a scam, it’s just horny dudes simping for their server)
  5. People start to complain about tipping culture, seemingly blaming the server for just working a job and not the restaurant owner for paying their staff starvation wages (we are here right now)
  6. States mandate minimum wage for service industry staff
  7. Restaurant prices go up to pay for wages but tip culture begins to go away
  8. Servers are making less money so they go get easier jobs that pay the same (working in a restaurant can be fucking BRUTAL)
  9. Restaurants hire more and more Indian immigrants, while hard working, are indicative of an even larger societal problem
  10. Restaurant owners continue to make out like bandits, while customers and staff get shafted.
marx2k ,

How’s the customer getting Shafter in this scenario?

fat_stig ,

While I abhor the whole concept of tipping, the thing that really grinds my gears is that we are expected to pay a percentage of the bill for service. If I order a basic cheese pizza or a 16 ounce tomahawk steak with a big chunk of foie gras and all the trimmings the server does not have to do much extra work for the latter. But if I have to tip $5 on a $20 pizza, why the fuck do I have to tip $100 for almost the same amount of service for the steak? Sure it weighs more and you might need to make an extra trip to serve the trimmings, but WTF, the server is not providing any more value by serving an expensive dish.

If I order an expensive bottle of wine it takes no extra effort to serve, why should I pay a shit ton more service charge?

USA, get your shit together, this is so not right. Land of the free? My arse.

Maggoty ,

Because restaurants decided to enforce tipping by percentage after world war 2 in order to keep payroll down. They lobbied for laws around it and ran advertisements to the public. Corporate governance is a huge problem in the US and tipping is just one facet.

fat_stig ,

Thanks for the background.

BigTrout75 ,

While I do tip. It does suck that eating out pretty much requires a donation because we all agree that food workers don’t make enough to live on. And I live in a State where they get full minimum. Just give the workers food and boarding and we can call it a deal, oh wait… Let’s not.

BaardFigur ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    Maggoty ,

    You’re going to get banned from a bunch of restaurants then. Anywhere worth eating enforces tipping. Some of them have it already included in the bill.

    I understand your frustration but that’s going to add far more stress to your trip, will result in servers being underpaid, and could result in the police being called if you refuse to pay a tip that’s already included on the bill.

    wanderingmagus ,

    I’d like to see that in court.

    Maggoty ,

    Sure thing buddy. Here you go. As for the charges sticking? Who cares? You just got arrested on holiday.

    BaardFigur ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Maggoty ,

    Because we care about profits more than we care about people.

    wanderingmagus ,

    Then I’ll turn around and counter-sue the restaurant, and make the restaurant owner’s life a living hell for the rest of their life. Maybe they’ll even end up on the street after their house gets taken from them.

    Maggoty ,

    Counter sue what? They aren’t sueing you and they didn’t arrest you. The legal advice to restaurants is to have the police come even for removing people because that shifts the legal liability.

    You can’t just make it up. The courts will dismiss your car and charge you money for the pleasure.

    marx2k ,

    Absolutely no establishments are going to ban a customer for not tipping.

    Maggoty ,

    I’ve seen it happen.

    HawlSera ,

    I wish NC was one of them

    Lightrider ,

    Defeat the

    werefreeatlast ,

    The state of Texas is committed to ending slavery in the coming decade. As a first step they are proposing that minimum wage should cover an entire cardboard box living quarters. And we’re not talking shoebox size Amazon hand me downs that still have the return address tag! They will remove the tag and provide enough duct tape to seal that portion of the box. Under article 17 of the 2024 end of slavery pact, they propose that men and women under the age of 27 shall not be responsible for sealing and or weather proofing their cardboard boxes. Older people are not covered yet, but may be covered as soon as two or three more migrant babies are sold back to their respective Mexican families. Indeed, Texas is making strides to accommodate the world’s demands for fair treatment of human rights and the people who should have them.

    acutfjg ,

    That’s great, but minimum wage needs a huge overhaul.

    HawlSera ,

    20 bucks minimum wage

    pete_the_cat ,

    So that should cover everyone in this day and age since everyone asks for a tip now /s

    alienanimals ,

    Greedy employers leverage tipping to pay their employees the least amount possible. It’s fucking disgusting.

    And too many people who receive tips don’t realize that it’s their employer fucking them over rather.

    Bytemeister ,

    It’s worse than that, most of the time, employers are skimming from the tips. Don’t tip for things that were previously non-tipped and give the person cash if you can.

    joenforcer ,

    most of the time

    Citation needed. When I worked for tips, my tips never got skimmed.

    TheIllustrativeMan ,

    Not them, but every tipped job I’ve had has been skimmed.

    Whether to pay the cooks, dishwasher, or just straight pocketed by the owner, I only ever got 50-75% of the tip.

    Vampiric_Luma ,
    @Vampiric_Luma@lemmy.ca avatar

    I’ve had my manager take our tip pool for snacks. The justification being that the snacks are for everyone even though half of us didn’t eat the snacks. >:( I don’t want chips, especially when it’s my customer’s good will directed towards me.

    fidodo ,

    The scummiest thing I’ve seen is restaurants adding a percent service fee before asking for an extra tip on top. Not a delivery service or 3rd party, the restaurant itself. Basically it makes customers tip less because they see the service fee so it’s just flat out stealing the tip from workers.

    SpezBroughtMeHere ,

    Surely you’ve got a source on this highly illegal activity. Or is it more likely you’re making stuff up?

    mechoman444 ,

    Please! For the love of God! Get rid of tipping!

    I hate tipping! As the consumer I should not be responsible for proving a living wage for someone else’s employees!

    kameecoding ,

    as a European I have to say both the Tipping culture and the not showing the full price in stores with VAT included is just mindblowing.

    It’s literally a culture of hiding true costs, weird af.

    CosmicCleric ,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s literally a culture of hiding true costs, weird af.

    Makes me happy though in this day and age that people are waking up to this fact, and are starting to push back on it.

    In the past corporations/governments thought people were a lot more unaware, than they are today.

    Raiderkev ,

    Hotels too. The advertised price is never accurate because their stupid resort fees.

    Paddzr ,

    What now? First I’m hearing of this. How much extra?

    Raiderkev ,

    Again, it’s prevalent in the US market, not sure about others. They advertise say $199 / night, but when you go to check out, there’s something like a ~$35- $50 /night resort fee to “pay for amenities like WiFi/ gym /pool”. You can’t reject paying the fee, so your hotel room is actually like 25% higher than advertised.

    Paddzr ,

    Yeah, that’d be quite illegal down here. I spent basically half a year living in hotels straight due to work all across the UK and primarily London then continued for a few years after. So we’re likely talking +300 nights. I have never seen an additional charge.

    wolfpack86 ,

    Have lived in both eu and us.

    Agree, but the challenge on tax is that it’s not harmonized across municipalities. This means that stores that are across the street from each other may have identical prices/profit margin and a different net price to the consumer. This would lead to consumer preferences biased by physical location and have lots of other weird side effects. You can see this in areas that border state lines when the tax is appreciably different.

    Step one is a harmonized tax rate, but that’s easier said than done.

    Tlaloc_Temporal ,

    The true cost is different no matter how it’s advertised, no? Harmonized tax is great and all, but lying about price is still bad, irrelevant of the actual price.

    wieson ,

    It’s a culture of trying to get away with whatever makes the most profits. We also have that, but there are some reasonable laws working against that. One of my favourites is the duty to display per kg or per litre price. Before that, shops made the package sizes deliberately confusing.

    TheSanSabaSongbird ,

    We actually do have that in the US as well, but it’s typically in very fine print and a lot of people don’t even know about it.

    marx2k ,

    I don’t think there’s any law like that in the US. If there were, 2 out of 4 national supermarket chains local to me are breaking the law and have been for years

    TheSanSabaSongbird ,

    It’s really not that weird at all. It’s a simple consequence of the EU having better consumer protection laws. Unfortunately the far right in the US is a lot stronger than in most of Europe and has been since the post-war era.

    We also, in the US, have an old and antiquated system that was deliberately designed to be difficult to change because the founders had to convince the slave-owning class that abolition couldn’t be forced on them if they agreed to join the newly-formed union. How did they do that? You guessed it! By making the Constitution almost impossible to change, which is one reason why it required the bloodiest war in our history to end slavery.

    Again, there’s nothing especially “weird” about it. As is true of a lot of contemporary reality, it’s largely a consequence of history.

    Interestingly, tipping culture is also at least tangentially a product of slavery as well, but that’s a bit more complicated so I’ll save it for another comment.

    And if you’re starting to suspect that a ton of what ails the US can be traced directly back to slavery, here’s a hint; you may be on to something!

    That said, it was the European colonial powers who brought slavery to North America in the first place, which kind of brings us full circle.

    MaxVoltage ,
    @MaxVoltage@lemmy.world avatar

    You dont have to tip bro its okay

    Vampiric_Luma ,
    @Vampiric_Luma@lemmy.ca avatar

    It’s not okay. I can hear some of my customers’ anxiety when they struggle to tip me. Some people lord it over me like I should revere them for their blessing. There is an unnecessary layer of stress to the customer service routine for everyone involved except the owner who benefits from this system. Not to mention some businesses pool their tips and share it with everyone, sometimes redirecting these funds into unscrupulous items like snacks without consent. >:(

    Tips don’t motivate me to provide great customer service to my customers. Tips serve to maintain cheap labor, but more important to me is how they erect social barriers. I can’t blame someone for wanting or being motivated by tips when they’re stuck near the bottom of the socio-economic ladder. I’m there too so I understand, but there’s just no reason for tips when we can get/provide great service without adding layers of paranoia; When we can provide a satisfying quality of life for everyone in the process with a not-so-simple wage increase (and God forbid, better budgeting and management from business owners).

    They also in general make my job harder, especially when an old person who’s basically blind can’t find any of the buttons or follow simple directions (PRESS 3 FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, MARIANNE)

    Vampiric_Luma ,
    @Vampiric_Luma@lemmy.ca avatar

    I’d like to supplement that I’ve had access to my various employer’s records multiple times… because why lock the admin computer.

    With my current employer, my entire wages for the month are paid for with net profits in a single day thanks to the skeleton crew we operate. I get to work knowing every other day is going straight to my boss’s luxurious life-style because it’s certainly not coming back here.

    Don’t be surprised when you hear of another staff walk-out~

    Fuck tips, support good living standards for everyone!

    Mamertine ,

    It’s not socially acceptable to not tip servers in a full service restaurant in the USA. It’s becoming a required social norm to tip fast casual.

    The pandemic really changed the tipping norms in the USA.

    mechoman444 ,

    No. I actually kinda do. Like if I’m out with friends I literally get judged if I tip poorly let alone if I don’t tip at all which is social suicide.

    And if I have a coupon for a meal, say 50% or something like that I still have to tip on the original amount before the discount was applied.

    Moreover, and most importantly in some restaurants tipping is the only source of income the server gets. Regardless of how I feel about it I am still responsible for this person’s wage.

    I hate tipping culture.

    MaxVoltage ,
    @MaxVoltage@lemmy.world avatar

    You have friends? Wow that must be nice

    Tlaloc_Temporal ,

    One way or another, you’re paying those employees wage. One of them doesn’t get taxed or advertised is all.

    ME5SENGER_24 ,

    Yes and no. All tips are supposed to be reported to the IRS. Whether they are or not is not really relevant. What really matters is that the customers aren’t forced to do an owners job. If an owner needs their customers to prop up their employees then the owners shouldn’t be in business.

    I used to make $2.35/h when I was in the service industry. Without my customers I would’ve been fucked. What’s worse is on a slow night, I really did get fucked.

    spader312 ,

    I used to make $2.35/h when I was in the service industry. Without my customers I would’ve been fucked. What’s worse is on a slow night, I really did get fucked.

    I think that should be the point, employees should not be taking on the risk of a business doing poorly. That’s the business owner’s responsibility and risk, to be mitigated by them. Not screwing over a waiter because it was a slow night. Or because they were unlucky to work a tuesday night over a busy Saturday night.

    TangledHyphae ,

    I was going to say this but fear of mass downvotes kept me quiet. Glad I’m not the only one. I’ve worked for tips but I’d rather just work for a reasonable wage instead, remove the guesswork and chances for abuse.

    auraness ,

    It’s also bullshit that tipped workers rarely pay taxes on the vast majority of their earnings. We’re subsiding their wages, infrastructure, and social services.

    AtariDump ,

    I feel like this was true when cash was more widely used, however, anytime recently I’ve been out it’s always a tip on the card (which they can’t “hide” from the govt).

    abracaDavid ,

    Lmao this has got to be the most misplaced anger ever. You’re mad at people that don’t even make minimum wage aren’t paying taxes on the maybe $35k a year? How about the billionaires that basically don’t pay taxes? Maybe we should deal with that first.

    Sarmyth ,

    It’s been a long time since ither of you’ve been a server, huh? They’re doing better than that unless they are part-time.

    Your point stands, that taxing billionairs is good, but a full-time server is probably doing 50k+ in all but the lowest cost of living areas. Because a tipped employee earns a % of goods sold, they are hurt less by inflation. The rising prices people pay result in higher tips. But since most places aren’t cash, only the vast majority of their tips are via card and thus recorded and reported.

    TLDR, they aren’t as bad off as people think, and they are mostly taxed correctly.

    meliaesc , (edited )

    For reference, Musk paid 8.3 billion in federal taxes in 2021, after all the evasion tricks. So even if the servers are being taxed correctly, who cares, it doesn’t actually impact the economy.

    Sarmyth ,

    It does. That’s how taxes work. Musk’s taxes don’t benefit everyone equally. The server’s taxes will be split, and the portion that goes to their state may be one that a billionaire doesn’t pay into.

    But it doesn’t matter since you’ve created a straw man argument. I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said about taxing the rich. You just take exception to me stating that servers also pay taxes for some baffling reason.

    Rodeo ,

    How much is that expressed as percentage of his total wealth?

    A quick search revealed $185b, which is probably his net worth and not his total wealth, but we’ll go with it:

    8.3 / 185 * 100 = ~4.49%

    For reference, I paid over 20% of my total wealth last year.

    So I actually paid more than 4x as much tax as Musk did, relative to the amount of wealth we have.

    meliaesc ,

    If he paid 37 billion dollars in taxes, you would be satisfied? I find “wealth tax” to be completely separate from income tax discussions.

    Rodeo ,

    I’ll be satisfied when the quality of life for average citizens starts going up again.

    pete_the_cat ,

    Servers aren’t getting a constant influx of people every day that they work, it varies from day to day except for the most popular places, even then tips aren’t consistent amongst different groups of guests at popular places.

    It’s not their fault that their income comes from untaxed tips because their boss isn’t paying them a taxable wage.

    Sarmyth ,

    All business is like this, which is why we average our earnings in these discussions.

    When I managed a grocery store where tips were super rare and never % based, the slow days were about $36k earnings, and the busy days were about $92k. Unfortunately, a server still has to be present on slow days, which may be low earning days, but often that’s balanced with another preferred shift.

    marx2k ,

    Did they take the job? Who’s fault is it that they’re showing themselves to be ‘taken advantage’ of?

    pete_the_cat ,

    Not everyone takes a job because they want to, a lot of people wait tables because they need some source of income. They’re being taken advantage of because they’re willing to work for anything.

    Blackrook7 ,

    50k ain’t shit these days

    Sarmyth ,

    That’s at the minimum. My friend clears 100k working fine dining, but I know that’s an exception.

    Considering a 4 top will be guaranteed, get a bill over $100 their averages have risen. And since I am in California, they get their county’s minimum, which is $17/hour plus tips. So my friends who serve part-time make about 60k annually here. Not bad for part-time work.

    This is why I think most states should be moving our direction, as the article states.

    ReluctantMuskrat ,

    They don’t really avoid taxes now. Anything tip charged to a card gets taxed. Cash tips might not be claimed but that’s very little for most tipped workers. Additionally tipped workers paid below minimum wage make the employer responsible for making up the difference if they don’t have enough tips reported to avg min wage. That means the employers are very motivated to ensure their employee tips are reported.

    Also, even years ago when cash tips were a significant % of tips, being predominantly low wage workers those employees would get virtually all their taxes back after filing a return as well. They wouldn’t get SS taxes back but otherwise for most not reporting tips didn’t amount to a lot of missed taxes. There were some exceptions where people made decent money - maybe high end restaurants and salons - but today with little cash use there aren’t many taxes missed.

    Misconduct ,

    They have to report their cash earnings for taxes… Maybe some don’t but most businesses will at least require it.

    tiredofsametab ,

    I never worked at a place that made the servers produce all of their cash tips for accounting purposes. I only knew one server who was claiming everything all the time and it was because she was trying to get a home loan and minimum wage wasn't going to cut it (most people seemed to claim enough to make just over minimum wage so that they didn't have to have their paycheck adjusted later).

    Misconduct ,

    Well, that’s illegal so 🤷‍♀️

    magnetosphere ,
    @magnetosphere@kbin.social avatar

    IT’S ABOUT TIME.

    eclectic_electron ,

    Reminder that a “living wage”, and what most servers make, is at least 3x minimum wage, so tipping is still going to be required.

    red ,

    Nah, the shift has finally begun. It’s gonna happen

    eclectic_electron ,

    I hope so. I hope something like this makes it to a ballot in my state.

    Rediphile ,

    It doesn’t require any ballot lol. People are just tipping less and less over time and the practice is dying.

    red ,

    While true, legislation can wreck this predatory shit overnight as well.

    Rediphile ,

    Tipping is, by definition, not required.

    eclectic_electron ,

    Tipping is “not required” the way that not cheating on an SO is “not required”. No, you’re not going to get arrested for it, but that doesn’t make it okay.

    CosmicCleric ,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    but that doesn’t make it okay.

    It’s okay to not to tip for normal service.

    Tipping is supposed to be done for extraordinary service, above the call of what the employee is normally required to do for the customer.

    If the employee is not earning enough then that’s a matter for between the employer and the employee to resolve, not the customer.

    eclectic_electron ,

    Unfortunately that’s not the reality in full service restaurants in the US, where I live. Servers are reliant on tips to live. The practice is pervasive. I don’t know of a single non-tipped full service restaurant in my city.

    CosmicCleric ,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    Unfortunately that’s not the reality in full service restaurants in the US

    As someone who lives in the US and was actually at a full service restaurant just last night, I can’t agree, just depends on the place/region.

    Also, if you are basing your existence on just the goodwill of others, that’s not a smart or healthy way to live.

    Really get tired of repeating the same points over and over again, so I’ll just leave it as “everyone is the captain of their own ship”, metaphorically speaking.

    It’s okay to not to tip for normal service.

    Tipping is supposed to be done for extraordinary service, above the call of what the employee is normally required to do for the customer.

    If the employee is not earning enough then that’s a matter for between the employer and the employee to resolve, not the customer.

    EatATaco ,

    From all I’ve heard, wait staff actually like tipping because, if you’re good, you can make a decent amount of money that way.

    I personally would love to get rid of the tipping culture in the US, as I think we’ve passed a point where tips are just being asked for in far too many places, but the idea that tipping is bad for waitstaff is something I think they might, on a whole, disagree with.

    And where are you in the US where tipping at a full service restaurant is not customary?

    Rediphile ,

    This is more like someone I barely know and never agreed to be in a relationship with getting upset about me seeing other people.

    If you agree to monogamy, it’s cheating and unethical for sure. If you don’t agree to monogamy, cheating isn’t even possible lol.

    So if I agree to pay the listed price of an item and then I pay for it in full…

    urist ,
    @urist@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    This is more like someone I barely know and never agreed to be in a relationship with getting upset about me seeing other people.

    But you did decide to walk into a restaurant and order, knowing full well that the employees there currently require tips to survive, yes? And you also understand that your single act of not tipping one person doesn’t change societal convention, it only hurts that individual worker?

    Your analogy is fraught. Let me revise it for you:

    This is more like someone I barely know and never agreed to be in a relationship with getting upset that I shit in their toilet without flushing.

    Rediphile ,

    I never consented to any of it. And no, I don’t know what the servers make. I only know what I made as one at a specific restaurant like 15 years ago. My uncertainty is even more pronounced when I’m on vacation in an area I’ve never worked as a server.

    Can you please just let me know the actual price so I can agree to pay it or not. I just want all the information so I can make a decision. How much is the cheeseburger that says $10 on the menu? Ffs I’m hungry.

    But no, it’s like you’re afraid to give an actual price because you don’t want to risk limiting the hypothetical maximum you can scam out of some sucker.

    urist ,
    @urist@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    I have also worked as a server, briefly, at a corporate establishment. For each well paid server there is certainly one not making enough money.

    You’re still not getting the point: you choose to eat at a restaurant. If you’re just hungry and out of time and don’t feel like tipping, you’re able to patronize somewhere where the majority of the employees wage does not come from tips. Yes, every fast food place has those rip screens now and most people are ignoring them. I’m not talking about fast food employees, I’m talking about Jan at Bob’s greasy spoon diner or Tim at Chili’s.

    So, are you really arguing for using a server’s labor without compensating them for it?

    Rediphile ,

    I’d just like to know the price of a ‘$10’ cheeseburger so I can make an informed decision. You’re refusal to state the actual price tells me everything I need to know.

    And I’m not buying any of the servers labor, I’m buying a cheeseburger. The only business relationship I have here is between me and the business owner selling cheeseburgers. The only reason I came here is that I’m hungry for a delicious cheeseburger.

    Are you really arguing about this from a device produced within a system where people in sweatshops get paid far less than servers and without even any possibility of tips? You must see the irony a bit…or did you somehow tip the sweatshop kids when you bought your phone/laptop? Or did you assume the entire chain of people who produced the device are paid fairly? I mean, sure, maybe they are (as unlikely as that is). But it’s going to take a whole lot of research to determine that or even come close to determining.

    More than anything, I’d really just like to know how much currency I need to exchange for one cheeseburger listed on the menu for $10… but since the menu can’t be trusted. I’m asking, please, how much is that cheeseburger?

    urist ,
    @urist@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Are you really arguing about this from a device produced within a system where people in sweatshops get paid far less than servers and without even any possibility of tips?

    No, friend, we all know that the system right now is unethical. We all struggle to do what we can with what we have. The only reasonable solution to me is to consume as little as possible, repair things and buy things second hand.

    And I’m not buying any of the servers labor, I’m buying a cheeseburger.

    Either you are:

    1. Buying your cheeseburger at a fast food place, where a server’s labor isn’t required. I’m not talking about this.
    2. Using a server’s labor (taking your order, busing your plates, refilling your drinks, taking up a table in the server’s section that prevents someone else from being seated who may require more work). Then, if you choose not to tip, you’re deciding the server makes “enough” for their efforts. Best case scenerio, you are freeloading off other patron’s tips.

    I am currently a tipped employee (not in the restaurant industry. I work at a casino. Edit: My situation is totally different, my job is dumb and I’m part of a tip pool.). I’ll say it here: The system is bad and tipping shouldn’t exist. Ugly people and racial minorities make less money from tips than traditionally attractive, neurotypical white people. It’s a bad system, full stop. This doesn’t mean you should just decide to not tip if you go to a restaurant that employees servers for 2.13 + tips. The most ethical choice is to not patronize that restaurant. If you do anyway (as we all do, living is pain), you should tip. Not tipping isn’t going to change anything. It’s just make life worse temporarily for that server, who might be agonizing what they did to piss you off.

    Rediphile ,

    I’m more than happy to not patronize the restaurant if I find the total price is unreasonable and I’m not willing to pay it. Unfortunately, I am only able to do so if someone tells me the total price of the cheeseburger. Why are you so unwilling? This is the third time I’ve tried to get an answer now.

    And I honestly don’t think I’ve ever in my life been to a restaurant where the server made $2.13 or lower, but I have no way of knowing that with certainty. In any case, I’d rather not participate in a system that ‘is bad and shouldn’t exist’ and as you pointed out is discriminatory/racist. And since it’s completely optional, the most ethical option for me to take seems the only one that does not encourage the system at all.

    But hey, you might just be morally superior to me. Casinos, after all, provide an important and definitely non-exploitative service to society. And those ‘customers’ definitely owe you a tip.

    urist , (edited )
    @urist@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Why are you so unwilling? This is the third time I’ve tried to get an answer now.

    Apparently I haven’t been clear: Tipping is a bad system. It should be abolished. Employee wages should be priced into the menu. I have lived overseas where this was the case, it works fine.

    You are misunderstanding: I am saying that while this is the system here in America, you should either tip, or not go to restaurants where tipping is expected. I am not arguing that the system is good, I am arguing your response to the system is bad. It seems you have encountered a bad thing and you are using it’s badness to justify other bad behavior.

    And I honestly don’t think I’ve ever in my life been to a restaurant where the server made $2.13 or lower

    You have. Trust me. This is how restaurants operate in the USA (edit: no server should be taking home less than minimum wage, restaurants are required to make up the difference in tip shortfall. Minimum wage is too low in all states. Failure to follow tip credit laws is one of the #1 sources of wage theft). They might not get away with exactly 2.13 any more, but the majority of restaurants here in the USA pay less than minimum wage. I work at a casino, and the dealers are paid less than minimum wage by the casino (they start around $5/hr). Google the phrase “tip credit” for more info.

    Casinos, after all, provide an important and definitely non-exploitative service to society.

    Somehow I’ve managed to find a way to make a living wage, thus my argument is invalid.

    I am tipped, if I made less I would quit, because my job is pretty bullshit and is unfulfilling, you got me. I’m also going to college part time so I can get out of this situation.

    It’s a shame. If I quit, the casino would surely close, it’s all my fault it’s around. Sorry folks :(

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