I heard in a podcast, one of NPRs I think, that if the union wants to deplete their strike fund they could give each member $500 every week and last for about 3 months. And that in just 10 work days there would be 5 billion dollars lost in the economy. So 345=60 billion dollars. Let’s see what happens and who blinks first.
McCain was captured by the Vietcong, held as prisoner there for a longer than average time. Then came back to the US, became a senator, and advocated for close US and Vietnam relations. McCain was an early adopter of the “If you can’t beat them, crush them economically until the become a capitalist country” approach to Vietnam. In honor of his commitment to close ties between the US and Vietnam despite his long capture, McCain is revered in the country.
Because despite being a pow he was a proponent of healing ties between the two nations when he got into office. He could have had a lifelong hatred and political crusade against Vietnam and few would have blamed him, but he chose to be better than that and chose to help the two countries work together to improve both and prevent future wars
Auto manufacturers are in the same boat that everyone else is, finding good workers is extremely difficult. If you got good people you better have a plan to be able to keep them. It’s not like the old days where the old adage, take it or leave it applies
Seems the CEOs manage to get nice raises. The standard company plan is to get poorly paid people to be mad at those who managed to bargain for decent pay, and it works so well.
Shit all these car companies have jacked up the hell out of their prices over the last couple years too while these workers had to go into factories and work during the pandemic without seeing any sort of pay raise since 2019.
“Best paid in their field” and paid their fair share for their labor are not the same thing. 16% which is a lie, isn’t enough for 40 years of being under paid.
You might want to step out of this conversation if you think UAW members have ever been underpaid. Union workers for GM, Ford and Chrysler had been paid a good 30 to 50% (or more) more than autoworkers for Japanese and German carmakers operating plants in the US.
Sounds like they should join UAW if they don’t want the gap to keep growing to the point where they can’t afford to live where they work. Cost of living ain’t waiting for their bosses to spare some change they could give to their major shareholders instead.
If the worker isn’t the number one benefactor I don’t care if they are paid above the average. That goes for all industries. The owners, executive, investors, and board members shouldn’t. Paying works well never bankrupt a company, but underpaying absolutely will.
Really buying into the corporate propoganda here aren’t you? These used to be great paying jobs, but the average auto workers salary has eroded just like every other industry and is less than $40k these days, even if you arbitrarily exclude non-union auto workers it’s still barely $50k. Even those non-union workers will benefit from industry wages increasing with this new contract.
Also, this contract will be a 4 year agreement through 2027, and auto workers haven’t seen a raise since 2019. If you considered the 46% they’re asking for as an annual raise over that time period 2019-2027 it would only be a 5.75% annual raise.
And we haven’t even talked about the inflation since 2019 which has already eroded their pay by 20%, plus whatever additional inflation through the next 4 years will do. If inflation doesn’t cool down through that period this 46% may barely maintain their current wages.
The effects on blood pressure are well known, but that it can cause spasm of arteries is interesting.
Many people eat lots of spicy food daily and I never heard of serious health issues. Especially a single chip might contain a concentrated amount of capsaicin, but it is unlikely to contain much more in volume then a hot plate of chili con carne or even just a hand full of raw jalapenos. So I assume it is some underlying condition and a shock reaction and not the capsaicin itself.
I too hate the extract sauces, they’re just painful without the flavour. As far as I’m aware these crisps don’t use it. The world’s hottest ramen challenge I did was just reaper mash missed into the sauce.
I could have also picked a habanero which is admittedly a lot more spicy and it used to be the hottest pepper in the world, but it usually doesn’t cause a big reaction either.
Anyway, that’s missing the point. I was talking about the total amount of capsaicin which can’t be really high in just one chip. It is just a tiny amount of concentrated capsaicin and I believe that people usually consume more with a regular spicy meal. Hence my believe that not the capsaicin itself is the problem.
This chip isn’t merely “very spicy food”, it is explicitly designed to be a challenge. One single chip costs $10 and the packaging is literally shaped like a coffin.
If such a reaction is remote, yet foreseeable to the manufacturer, the severity of the reaction (death) dictates a warning. It is a known, material risk, and the burden of warning is outweighedby the severity of the harm.
There’s no warning on the package that it could result in death. The maker could be sued in products liability for negligent failure to warn.
There was a good case in Mass. against Tylenol. One possible reaction of Tylenol is that your skin could melt and fall off (not even really exaggerating). Very remote possibility, but so, so severe. Manufacture knew it was possible, didn’t warn because it was so remote. But such a serious injury makes the risk material to a consumer, and so there’s a duty to warn.
So I think this is the problem, the packaging says only for adults (these kids were obviously not adults), not for those sensitive to spicy food or with allergies to what I can assume are the main ingredients.
I know disclaimers are a bit woolly as to what can stand up in court, but what more should they have put:
Perhaps something like “this food may cause severe gastrointestinal distress or internal bleeding, which may contribute to pulmonary distress, which in some cases may lead to heart attack, stroke, or death.”
Is this one of those same anti-science, know-nothing takes like those that were too dumb to understand how COVID positive patients that died of heart attacks were legitimate counted as dying from COVID?
Have you ever eaten anything spicy? Did it not provoke an instantaneous physiological response? Sweating? Urinary urgency? Tachycardia? Tachypnea? Erythema?
Capsaicin is neurotoxic, a sufficient dose will kill you. In a sensitive person, or person with pre-existing conditions, a hot chip can definitely be the thing that overwhelms a person. Maybe the chip was the straw that broke the camel’s back, in law and medicine, that’s causal.
Yes, a sufficient dose of anything generally does. What’s your point? The fact that millions of other people eat spicy foods at these levels and survive would indicate that no, this is not about the dose in general.
Have you ever eaten anything spicy?
I’m Asian. We inhale spicy food. No, I don’t recall Asians dying of eating something spicy. If they were sensitive (read: allergic), that’s on them to know their own allergies. We don’t blame peanut butter because people die after eating it.
Covid was a new virus that popped up in 2019, chilli peppers are ingredients we’ve been cooking with for thousends of years. We’re well aware of their effects.
Yes it’s a nuero-toxin, but it takes a lot to kill you. There’s sauces out there that are millions of scovilles higher than either of the chillis in these crisps, as they’re made with extracts and people eat them without dying all the time.
It doesn warn if gastrointestinal diestess on the left if you look “abdomen attack”. The other stuff you have listed is nonsense and spicy food doesn’t cause that.
Honestly after seeing how people reacted to a 9/11 worth of people dying per day during COVID, I’m having trouble finding empathy. I’m in my 40s and I remember the day clearly, I’m just too damn jaded now, it’s just another senseless death of people like mass shootings and other instances.
I have trouble understanding any of this? You have problems finding empathy for victims of terrorist attacks because a disease killed more? What do they even have in common in this context? Why do mass shootings prevent you from feeling empathy? Or was that line just another contextless cool-story-bro addon? What does your age have to do with any of this? If I read this correct you have had problems with empathy all throughout the decades.
Well since someone needs things spelled out to them because they don’t understand context, I’ll do it just for you.
Age was mentioned because most of the Internet trends younger so there were inevitably going to be comments about “well you probably weren’t old enough to remember”, no, I very much was
link between the pandemic, mass shootings and this was due to all of them were large death experiences, didn’t matter the cause, it’s the fact that we’ve become so accustomed to death through our (in)action leaves people jaded.
I don’t even know where you get the “cool-story-bro” part unless you’re just trying to sound “cool” yourself.
You do know terrorism is more than just a mass death -situation? You DO know that right? Please say you do. Also please say it isn’t normal for you to destruct complex issues into simple black and white matters for them to be examined out of context. You’re too old for that kinda stuff and I would expect better from someone with that many years under their belt, even though you seem to lack any hint of empathy towards anyone
The deaths from COVID are higher in number, but have had less of a societal shift (although it probably should have resulted in one). There were all the days afterward where we all expected to be attacked again at any time. People were absolutely terrified. That took a huge psychic toll on the nation. People were literally getting PTSD because they expected Bin Laden to attack again and maybe with a dirty bomb this time. The government pushed through the Patriot Act with almost unanimous consent. And suddenly, we were at war in Afghanistan and 200,000 people were killed in that war.
9/11, as they say, changed everything. And that isn’t literally true, but things seriously changed in the U.S. and not for the better.
People don’t process tragedies like this the same. It’s a fucked up fact of human psychology. Seeing a horrific, scary, very rare event like planes crashing into the towers has way more impact on the typical person than reading about numbers without the scary event visuals. It sucks, but that’s how the human brain works.
I knew two people who died on board Pan Am 103. The younger brother of one of them died in a freak accident when he was only 7 or 8 years old.
My brother knew people who were at the airport in Rome on the day of the 1985 terrorist attacks.
Years ago my brother and I figured we knew folks that were impacted by half a dozen or so different terrorist attacks prior to 9/11. So yeah, I’m a bit jaded as well.
We did know somebody who almost flew out of Boston on that hijacked flight. She had a ticket on the same flight the next day, and her boss had pushed her to fly out a day earlier. Luckily she didn’t…
Most people don’t know what empathy means because they confuse it with sympathy. We’re only saying it now because of the snowball effect of our vernacular.
Your eyes swelling shut is called “viper hypnosis.” Severe stomach cramps is like “stomach ouchies” or something, with an image of little guy curled up on the floor.
So may peanuts, but I don’t think we should label peanuts with “may cause death”?
There are too many nuances and exceptions to everything for such a warning to be meaningful. Most things can kill you, doesn’t mean they will unless you got some other medical condition or do something unreasonable.
Let’s see. They want to serve the public. They gather the ingredients necessary to run for public office. They win. They get experience and become subject matter policy experts. They get re-elected. Basicly, they do things. But, they don’t sit around and bitch about age.
I did the challenge two days ago. It was the third spiciest I’ve had. Was definitely something that could do harm to someone who doesn’t know how to handle ultra-spicy. The kid won a Darwin Award. You can’t ban spicy food nor should you. This is a parenting issue. If this kid didn’t die from this skull and crossbones coffin wrapped in warnings, it would have been some other TikTok challenge like drinking bleach.
Also, I find it interesting that you are basically insulting this kid for doing something stupid while saying you did it in the same paragraph. I guess you are not stupid because it didn’t kill you?
The instructions state that it is for adults only. I essentially have body training in handling extreme spicy. At 14, you are considered a man in most societies. Why should we wussify American youth? At that age, I was eating habaneros. I blame the parents for not introducing him to spicy food and allowing him to make an informed decision.
The 14 year old ate the chip at school, there's no mention of who gave the chip to him. It's a school administration problem, but hardly a parenting issue unless the mother bought the chip for her son and sent it to school with him. The mother came to pick the boy up right away when he complained of pain, rushed him to the hospital when he lost consciousness, and she is now speaking out to warn others about the dangers of this stupid challenge.
Warnings of what? Which warning would have made risk clear? Death imagery is part of their marketing not a legitimate warning. The kid eating a commercially sold food item is not on the same level as drinking bleach. It’s weirdly cold and callous victim blaming to say that he was so stupid that he would inevitably die in some similar way. It rings the same as the people that scoff at the McDonalds coffee thing. Yeah you shouldn’t ban hot coffee but you probably should ban serving coffee hot enough to cause third degree burns.
These warnings. They are prominently displayed. It is a stretch to call him a victim. The only exception would be if someone tricked him into eating the chip.
The keep out of reach of children and the adults only warning. Also, the thousands of videos online of people showing how hot the chip is or even ones of kids his age eating it and resulting in an ambulance trip. It wasn’t even the hottest thing that I’ve eaten honestly, but it was enough to make most people have a very bad time. The hottest natural thing that I have eaten was hot sauce prepared by the founder of Halal Guys many years ago when he worked at the original location. He called it a bad batch because it was too strong. The hottest extract was the hot wing challenge from The Mean Fiddler. This was third, but ranked closely with quite a few others.
At what point do companies have an obligation to save someone from themselves? There’s ample warning on this package that he shouldn’t have been eating it at his age or experience with spicy foods. There’s a possible argument the shop that sold it to him or his peers is at fault, but there’s not much more the manufacturers could have done to warn him off.
Listing the reason why they have those warnings seems pretty reasonable. That way kids could know that it’s not “some nanny state bs”. The verbage of those warnings is on par with “this is unhealthy if you do this” not “this is potentially lethal if you do this”. So again, honestly, how is it as stupid as drinking bleach?
The verbage of those warnings is on par with “this is unhealthy if you do this” not “this is potentially lethal if you do this”. So again, honestly, how is it as stupid as drinking bleach?
I wonder if the verbiage is that way as well. I think that a requirement for warnings on super spicy food have never been codified into law. Certain challenges make you sign a waiver, but that is just because restaurants don’t want a customer attempting to claim that the restaurant is somehow liable for ambulance costs if someone feels too uncomfortable. Since the inception of the country, there has never been a need to regulate spicy food. The FDA exists and has not made guidelines that limit access to spicy products. If they did, there would be very large protests. It would be an issue for many different cultures, which allow their children to eat spicy from infancy upwards. I remember my first hot pepper. Spicy food is part of many ethnic identities. You can’t just throw up the gauntlet because one kid has died in the thousands of years that spicy has been a thing. That kid had some other issues at play. The chip hurts, but it doesn’t kill. The fact that he felt better later on and then lost consciousness screams that this uncovered something else that could have been triggered under many other circumstances, but the chip provided the lynch pin stress.
I think you are missing a few common sense points here. When since the inception of the country did manufacturers start using chemical processes to artificially spice foods to orders of magnitude higher than what naturally occurs? This is a new process and a new problem. If the FDA made limits to access of spicy food it wouldn’t be all spicy foods and it wouldn’t be all levels of spice. There would be no large protests because the actual amount of foods impacted would be miniscule. I respect that spice is an important part of culture and identify but I think that because it is a part of your identity you are not taking a clear objective look at it. Addressing this problem isn’t an all or nothing situation, it’s just the unnatural new extreme products that are the issue.
To be clear, the chip uses crushed powder from two super spicy chilies and contain no extract. It is still 5 times less than what is considered the lethal limit. I doubt it would be legal to sell anything at the lethal limit because it would be considered a poison. If 1 in a billion dies from a dose of something, the lethal limit doesn’t change. They are an outlier.
There are studies that put that number anywhere between .5-13g our capsaicin for a 150lb person where pure capsaicin is 15 million Scoville. The chip challenge is not pure capsaicin and is 1.7 million Scoville.
So is the lethal limit you are referencing the LD50? If you link the studies I can look into it a bit. If you are making the case that this is all safe and normal then why was the kid going to die from drinking bleach otherwise?
I’m fine if an adult wants to take this kind of risk, but this kid died and other kids have been hospitalized. We protect children from all sorts of other risky things that we allow adults to purchase. I don’t think we should allow children to purchase this.
No, it won’t stop kids from getting ahold of it sometimes. We can’t stop kids from getting ahold of alcohol and cigarettes all the time either. We should still make it as hard as possible for them to get it until they’re adults- although I think 16 should be the drinking age and 18 the driving age, but that’s another story.
From my understanding, this is the first case of actually serious consequences, and I’m sure millions of these chips have been eaten by now.
We need more stupid challenges that cause only pain but no serious, long term injury. It’s a good way to learn not to do stupid challenges, keeping kids away from the stupider ones that are more likely to do permanent harm.
I mean… the other way to learn to not do stupid challenges is to just not have stupid challenges because they’re stupid and we explain that they’re stupid.
I’m 46. I’m pre-internet. I did stupid shit. But not as stupid as the shit kids are doing now. I did things like walk through a bunch of poison ivy and thorn bushes because they were at the edge of the field and recess was boring.
I’ve heard that no matter how often you tell a kid the stove is hot and will burn them, they won’t stop trying to touch it until the pain has taught them. Not sure if it’s true (or true for all kids), but I would expect the other side of that (“once they’ve burned themselves, they learn”) to be mostly reliable.
Don’t do stupid shit because the Internet tells you it’s a challenge.
The next time it may not be a chip but a tide pod. Or “crystals” made by blowing bubbles with a straw into a bucket of bleach and vinegar (the blowing makes sure that the victim takes a deep breath of the World War 1 gas warfare recreation they just mixed up).
I hate that a corp saw people organically having stupid fun with stupid dare fads, something humans have been doing forever, and they made a product out of it.
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