And people wonder why I say that he’s a shit choice for a presidential candidate. Things like this his calling the very concept of a wealth tax “bullshit”, his lacking response to those taking actions to expand the housing crisis, and his protection of convicted killer, PG&E, really should make it clear that, despite good things like Project Roomkey, he’s still thoroughly a neolib.
On the one hand, I think that it’s a stupid idea being pushed for ideological reasons meant to favor the Religious Right. On the other hand though, as a parent, it does make a certain amount of sense to me that parents should potentially get more votes than non-parents. Not because we’re better or more deserving than non-parents or anything, but because we have more “skin in the game”, we’ve got more at stake, we’ve got our children’s future lives to consider. Parents deal with school funding issues that might be decided by a bunch of voters who decide, “I don’t have any kids, why should my tax dollars go towards school funding?” Being responsible for the livelihood of other people maybe should give you additional votes for people who can’t vote themselves.
Still though, it does go against the idea of one person, one vote and opens the door for all sorts of other multipliers to muddy the voting process. Will veterans then get extra votes because they’ve done more for the country? Do other groups stand to gain extra votes for whatever reason? It has all sorts of potential for getting abused if any exception is made for anyone, so ultimately probably shouldn’t be a thing.
I hate Vance and want Trump & him to crash and burn hard this election, BUT… I’m not sure I totally hate this idea.
That’s nonsense. And I say that as a parent. Just because someone doesn’t have kids of their own doesn’t mean they don’t have children in their lives they care about and want to thrive, or just want the species to improve itself.
And plenty of parents couldn’t give less of a shit about their kids.
Yeah, but are they paying any of their own money to take care of those kids for two decades? As a parent, I’m involved in my kids’ lives on a daily basis and I’ve been given an additional set of legal responsibilities & obligations. Society expects more from me in order to raise my kids (though I did willingly take that on by becoming a parent). You raise a good point though that further muddies the idea, what about legal guardians or adults who help out kids, who decides who gets that extra voting power? And then with delinquent parents, why should they be entitled to more voting power? It also further disenfranchises the LGBTQ+ community as well, so yeah, it’s just fraught with way too many issues.
Being unprepared to deal with the reality of poor choices
Is a reflection of how a better society would help people avoid such mistakes. Saying that someone messed up due to ignorance and now has to pay the price is victim blaming. Look at the root causes.
Duh, i was talking about people being raped, and the fact that the us is in the midst of banning abortion all over the place. But I guess you didn’t want to consider that and rail into me as if I was some dumbass. Good for you. Go have a cookie and feel smug with yourself.
What difference does the money make? Does you paying to feed your kids mean you love them more than their grandparents and want them to be successful more than their grandparents?
As you said, you took on the responsibility and obligations of parenthood when you chose to have children. Part of that is considering their interests when exercising your vote. While I don’t have children, I don’t agree that you have more skin in the game as you put it, than I do. I, as a human being and citizen of this country, want to see it succeed and flourish not only now, but long after I am gone, for generations to come. My family, friends and loved ones are all considerations when voting, as well as what I think will be best for society as a whole. It’s why when local votes come up for school funding, I always vote in favor of increases, despite having no children of my own benefitting from it.
Every adult makes life choices, and has various considerations for how they think the world should be, and what will improve it. The personal decisions you make and how you live your life should not afford you more or less votes than anyone else.
You also appear to be under the misconception that parents will automatically vote in the best interests of their children. Some may, but not all. It also pressures people to produce children needlessly in order to have more personal electoral power, which will result in a baby boom the likes of which hasn’t been seen since the end of WW2 - and back then, the US had a dominant economic position where there were more resources available to support these children.
I feel that you might be trying to argue your position in good faith. However, giving parents more rights to vote because they have children is a terrible idea. It will be exploited mercilessly by bad faith actors. Hell, the USA should be rewarding parents who choose to have fewer(2 or less) children, or those who choose not to have kids. This planet is already too overcrowded.
Yeah, but are they paying any of their own money to take care of those kids for two decades?
Yes. Taxes. People without kids still pay taxes for things like education, meal programs, etc. People with kids get a tax break to compensate for the cost of raising kids. You’re asking for something already built into how we support parents and children in America.
The only way this idea makes any sense is to allow the children to vote for themselves not to give a parent extra votes. You might argue that children are uninformed and won’t vote ‘correctly’, but that same argument can be applied to the parents as being informed isn’t a requirement to vote.
I don’t have kids or children in my life and I’m heavily invested in the concept of an easier future for the younger generations, I’ve never understood this.
A ridiculous opinion. All the survivors of abusive, narcissistic parents can tell you that the only “skin” they have in the game is “what do I get out of it?” Also, childless people have nieces, nephews, children of cousins, friends with kids, etc. They might love and care about those kids as much as any child they might have had themselves. So they do have skin in the game.
I think you underestimate the number of narcissistic, abusive parents who don’t care about their children except for how those children will do something to benefit them.
You definitely underestimate the narcissism of parents. My dad votes for policies that hurt this country and his children. He votes for Republicans that are against women's rights and trans rights and want to defund support for struggling children in schools. He does not deserve more votes than I do. I'm a socially isolated person with no children and I really don't care to be around children, but I still vote for their future. Parents do not deserve more votes.
Why would his opinion not be subject to critique from the hundreds of people who use this site? Don’t post if you don’t want your opinions to be scrutinized by the forum you’re posting in.
Same. They offered a fair opinion, gave a reason, stated conflicts with their opinion and expressed an openness to other perspectives. The Internet: How dare you think you get more votes! I love it.
So genuinely, how do you expect this to work? Am I supposed to just go upvote every dumb as shit opinion I read on the internet so everyone feels better?
Anyone is welcome to publicly share their opinion, don’t be surprised when people, who are also welcome to share their opinions, respond to it and poke holes in the logic.
You could as easily make the opposite claim—that those with children will be motivated to neglect the common good in order to promote the future welfare of their own offspring over those of others.
In don’t agree with people downvoting you for sharing your honest thought.
What I would say is this: more and more countries are looking to lower the voting age to 16.
I think that’s a nice step to give the youth a little more say.
And for the rest, people don’t seem to realize that all their investments will be worth nothing without workers to keep the economy chugging when they retire…
You either have kids, or you will depend on someone else’s kids. Both are fine, but don’t complain about picking up some of the burden to raise them.
don’t complain about picking up some of the burden to raise them
I don’t think the latter follows from the former. There are going to be plenty of people here in the future even if childless Americans don’t subsidize Americans with children. That’s the great thing about America - we can just let in the best among the many millions of people who want to come here from other countries. Accepting a young adult who is already educated and ready to do productive work seems like a pretty good deal compared to investing money into a child who won’t be productive for twenty years.
(Both the “accept no immigrants” and the “accept all immigrants” sides are wasting such a valuable opportunity!)
I don’t have children yet in any poll made by my city council I vote for more schools and kindergartens instead of parking lots. And always vote for funding education and stop the man-made climate disaster, because that’s what will keep our species on track. I don’t really care about parents, they made their own choice, just like I did. You chose the responsibility, because it also comes with happiness and a sense of fullfilment. I do care about the children and their future though, and wish future generations have a life at least as happy as I have, because, you know, being alive is awesome. I want humankind to thrive in the future, even if I don’t have any skin in the game, because that’s what an intelligent human being should think like. What a skewed, utterly ridiculous point of view you have. If you have that opinion of people without kids, I don’t want to know how you treat actual minorities.
My immediate gut reaction to this is pretty viscerally against it. I guess as a foster parent, I’m used to society being up my ass about my parenting decisions and I’m fine with that.
I get it that it can be painful when you are told you are doing something wrong with raining a kid you love, but also, that’s the whole point of a society. I think this policy would point society in the direction of making parenting become even more individualized than it already is in the US. “It takes a village” has lost all meaning in this country and we need to work towards making society feel invested in everyone’s children
I don’t know what policies could lead to people without kids feeling more of a stake in how children are raised. Can’t think of anything realistic. It’s going to have to be a societal shift back. People don’t want to be around other people’s kids when they aren’t allowed to have any say in how those kids are parented.
People talk about other countries where it’s not impossible for someone in the town to discipline someone else’s kid. It’s inconveniencable in the US because we treat parents as an unquestionable authority and kids are treated like property. Whatever we do, we need to figure out how to move away from hyperindividualism, greed, and selfishness being rewarded/encouraged.
People being property and thus giving their owners an extra vote is a very republican policy now that I think about it…
On the one hand, I think that it’s a stupid idea being pushed for ideological reasons meant to favor the Religious Right. On the other hand though, as a land owner, it does make a certain amount of sense to me that land owners should potentially get more votes than non-land owners. Not because we’re better or more deserving than non-land owners or anything, but because we have more “skin in the game”, we’ve got more at stake, we’ve got our estate’s future to consider. Land owners deal with issues that might be decided by a bunch of voters who decide, “I don’t have any land, why should my tax dollars go towards drainage management?” Being responsible for the well-being of the land we live on maybe should give you additional votes for acerage that can’t manage itself.
Still though, it does go against the idea of one person, one vote and opens the door for all sorts of other multipliers to muddy the voting process. Will parents then get extra votes because they’ve got more people in their house? Do other groups stand to gain extra votes for whatever reason? It has all sorts of potential for getting abused if any exception is made for anyone, so ultimately probably shouldn’t be a thing.
I hate Vance and want Trump & him to crash and burn hard this election, BUT… I’m not sure I totally hate this idea.
On the one hand, I think that it’s a stupid idea being pushed for ideological reasons meant to favor the rich. On the other hand though, as a billionaire, it does make a certain amount of sense to me that the wealthy should potentially get more votes than the poors. Not because we’re better or more deserving than the poors or anything, but because we have more “skin in the game”, we’ve got more at stake, we’ve got our vast fortunes to consider. The wealthy deal with funding issues that might be decided by a bunch of voters who decide, “I don’t have any money, why shouldn’t your tax dollars go towards public works?” Being responsible for the livelihood of the economy maybe should give you additional votes for businesses who can’t vote themselves.
Still though, it does go against the idea of one person, one vote and opens the door for all sorts of other multipliers to muddy the voting process. Will doctors then get extra votes because they’ve done more for the country? Do other groups stand to gain extra votes for whatever reason? It has all sorts of potential for getting abused if any exception is made for anyone, so ultimately probably shouldn’t be a thing.
I hate Vance and want Trump & him to crash and burn hard this election, BUT… I’m not sure I totally hate this idea.
Everyone, as a class, has some burden that some other grouping of people doesn’t. That doesn’t give you more of a say in the direction of the country.
With parenthood, your ability to raise and model your children is the privilege you get for having more skin in the game. Same with being a landowner, rich, healthy or anything else.
If anyone should get extra votes, which they shouldn’t, it’s the people who have fallen through the cracks in the system. Let the politicians bend over backwards pandering to the homeless vote, the drug addict bloc, or the chronically medically disabled demographic. They’ve all got even more on the line than parents, and the system has pretty clearly written them off and ignored them pretty hard already.
Since I’m considered less invested in the community if I don’t have children, I shouldn’t have to pay property taxes, since that money is used to fund public schools. And whatever federal portion of the budget that goes toward public education should be given back to me as well.
Also, does a parent’s extra vote go away when the children reach voting age?
Edit: The more I think about this, the more I like it. I think you’re on the right track, but we need to take this further. You have a greater stake, therefore you should have a larger tax burden as well. You and your family will use more resources than a single person. Roads wear out faster from more driving and increased weight of vehicle. Larger families require larger police and fire departments. Etc., etc. Good idea.
I have to agree with the majority of commenters. Jokes aside, we as parents at mostly chose to be parents. There are exceptions to this of course, but for the sake of argument let’s go with consensual parenting.
Which parent gets the extra votes? What about if you use the votes given to you by the existence of your child end up defying the beliefs of your child as they get older? Would you still argue that your extra vote(s) were for the betterment of the child? Can the child later sue you for that decision, because you should’ve known better?
As of the political/religious ideology and how it negatively impacts children isn’t bad enough, now we’re literally making life altering decisions not only for our kids, but other people via our kids?
Nah. I get where you’re trying to come from. We parents do make a lot of sacrifices for our children. And that’s okay to feel that way. But if you’re looking for some sort of prize, you may need to reassess why you became a parent in the first place. And hopefully it wasn’t for some award.
Shut up. A lot of parents are incredibly fucking stupid people. People who think just because you’re a parent you somehow developed more maturity or wisdom is absolute bullshit, specially when it comes to politics, parents are going to be more biased, emotional and reactionary because they probably see a lot of more things as a threat to their children. So, fuck no, this is one of the dumbest, most stupid ideas ever spout from a living human being.
I don’t have kids, but I still want to have an educated populace who can have the fundamental reading, writing and calculation skills and can critically and logically think, which requires a well-funded education system with a curriculum that teaches kids the basic skills and how to critically think.
And besides if the general population can think critically, they would very quickly realize that more than just parents have a vested interest in the education of the next generation. Businesses and government are still going to need engineers, designers, researchers and a whole host of other jobs that require education and critical thinking. And last I checked people only live so long, so if all the old guard dies before we pass on that institutional knowledge to the next generations we’re shooting ourselves in the foot economically and societally.
parents should potentially get more votes than non-parents
i can’t believe people are actually considering this complete bullshit. you’re operating under the assumption that people with kids are automatically going to vote in the kids’ best interest. jesus fucking christ AWS doesn’t have enough space for a list of examples proving that notion false.
you should view every suggestion to give one group of people more voting power than another group, for ANY reason, as bullshit. and it’s NEVER for the “sake of the future” or whatever blatant lie they sugarcoated it with, but as a means to gain votes for themselves
She noted that Williams organized the June 2020 protest at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Manhattan and livestreamed it, bragging about it afterward, even though the hand of a worker at the clinic was injured when Williams tried to push a door closed as the worker attempted to let a volunteer enter.
The judge cited seven other criminal convictions for Williams as a factor in the sentence. Williams was convicted in February at a two-week trial of violating the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act.
Good article, reactive web design notwithstanding (stop. breaking. my. scrolling). I’m not surprised that obtaining the chemicals was that easy, even accounting for the mislabeling and fake products. A lot of these chemicals are pretty simple and have pretty general use cases in the fine chemicals space. Hell, I had occasion to use (2-bromoethyl)benzene, aniline, and propionyl chlorde in school for making random precursors and ligands, albeit separately. I wonder if they are at all harder to procure nowadays because of the fentanyl epidemic.
Edit: checked some of my old work, didn’t actually use (2-bromoethyl)benzene but did make a related compound as an intermediate for ligand synthesis using a very satisfying Appel reaction.
No. No you are not. That’s nonsense and I already told someone else why. Because people have children that are not theirs that they love and want to thrive.
There have been many suggestions around such things.
We already have a system that disenfranchises people, based on where they live, the entire federal Senate for example, each state gets 2 senators regardless of it’s population. Puerto Rico gets zero, and yet they’re US citizens who have to pay federal taxes.
That first sentence is just not true. The childless left are the ones fighting for the future, while the right does their best to burn the world for quarterly profits
First off let’s talk about that hot take of yours that people with kids are more invested in the future.
One of the reasons that I don’t have kids is because of the future. I don’t deserve a medal for it, it’s just where I stand. But, talk with parents about why they had kids. It’s never about how great that child’s life is gonna be- climate change will make their life fucking hell.
It’s a patently stupid reason to distranchise voters because people with kids are slightly more likely to be conservative than people without… and people with lots of kids are significantly more likely to be conservative.
Further, it’s the kind of ignorant argument that those with lots of kids will accept as a reason to vote against their own best interests.
Second off, the idea that parents are voting for their kids requires a patently false assumption that parents will always be voting for that child’s interests. Kind of like how it was assumed slaveowners had the best interest of their slaves…
Which, given the republican push for child labor…just how dystopian do you want to get?
Homeless people and their advocates say the sweeps are cruel and a waste of taxpayer money. They say the answer is more housing, not crackdowns.
That’s not how things are done in this country. In the US, poverty is a crime. We have the second highest poverty rate, among OECD nations, and we have the world’s largest prison population. We have decided that is how we will handle the problem.
Yosemite needs to issue rain checks for Half Dome permits. They’re so hard to get, people don’t want to miss out on their Instagram moment. People will still make bad choices but at least you would know that’s not a factor.
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