I find it interesting that the quoted denial during the hearing by the head of the central whistleblower’s agency explicitly denied that the UAPs were non-terrestrial.
The theoretical physics that was brought up by that witness about the holographic principle (and what was effectively discussing the idea of travel through a wormhole) in order to explain potential FTL travel is the same mechanism behind theoretical time travel.
Tech that can explicitly disable our military radar, multi vehicle diamond flight formations, and any interest in Earth circa 21st century when signals from intelligence on Earth would only have traveled in an ~100 light years radius away – all seem to point away from extraterrestrial origins.
But all those details would be in line with much more advanced terrestrial origins.
Ever since Lucian’s A True Story in the 2nd century AD, there’s been the idea of extraterrestrial life. And yet the thing that actually ended up true from that satirical story was a ship of humans flying up to the moon.
I think a lot of the attention on this topic is over reliant on projecting advanced versions of human technology onto “visitors from outer space” rather than recognizing that the time proven trend over our history has been human driven technological advancement tending to overcome the wildest expectations of earlier humans.
A lot of the testimony in that hearing does seem rather legit, and to point to things outside the scope of what we’d consider possible today. But it may be the direction of questions about origins asked are barking up the wrong Sci-Fi tree, and leaving wiggle room for carefully worded yet truthful denials as a result.
my stupid joke below :( … don’t read if you don’t feel like it … )
I have my very own UFO capture program which I concealed for many decades now. Unfortunately, it has zero UFOs or UAP to this date. Maybe tomorrow … who knows.
He said there is a highly secret black program to retrieve non human intelligence (NHI) spacecraft and that he has classified evidence, including witnesses and locations, that he can provide to Congress for further investigation. He also said we have craft and non human bodies from them.
This is substantial because his claims are falsifiable and easy to investigate for Congress, potentially giving us insight into whether or not we actually have aliens and it’s been covered up. I wouldn’t believe this until we see a photo and/or Joe Biden says it’s true, but you should definitely follow this story and tell your friends about it so that they are prepared if it is shown to be true.
An oath or legal affirmation can be made if what you're saying is true and accurate to the best of your own ability and perceptions.
If you say something under oath with the intent to deceive or omit key information or evidence for any reason really, then this could be considered perjury, which is a crime under most legal systems.
If you truly believe you saw an alien and were completely convinced of that and testified that you saw one, yet your claim was found to be factually incorrect, you most likely would not be liable for perjury nor did you do anything illegal (in many modern legal systems). You would simply be wrong.
This could cause you to become an "unreliable witness" which might mean anything else you say or claim is taken with less weight, even in areas you might specialize in. For example, how much would you trust a cardiac surgeon who claimed they had frequent encounters with aliens from outer space?
Gourch was very clear to dismiss extraterrestrial origins. And his boss’s quoted denial to Congress claimed there was no evidence of extraterrestrial origin.
The same theoretical physics Gourch discussed (effectively wormholes) to travel faster than light is the same principle to travel through time (i.e. spacetime).
Earth has only been sending out detectable signals of intelligence for around a century which would have reached a max radius of around a hundred light years.
That’s not a lot of area for extraterrestrial life to have come from to give a crap about visiting us.
But would future Earth be interested in visiting past Earth?
Would that origin maybe be more likely to be flying in formations like our own pilots do?
Or more likely to have tech tailored to explicitly target our modern radar systems to disable them?
It’s much more of a leap to arrive at extraterrestrial life being aware of and interested in Earth and humanity so early on in our signals production to come so frequently that sightings are commonplace, and yet be using tech and behaviors that are closer to a far future version of our own rather than something that seemed to have evolved entirely separately.
If this is some physics breaking origin, it’s from our own future, not from some odd corner of space.
It's abundantly clear that there are plenty of loons walking among us, and that fame, wealth, and authority absolutely do not exclude a person from being a loon.
I'm not saying David Grusch is a loon. I'm saying that, between "there is a government conspiracy to hide the fact that actual intelligent extraterrestrial beings are visiting Earth, and the government is collecting their technology and reverse engineering it" and "the guy who truly believes that is a loon," one of those statements is far more likely to be true than the other one. One of those statements would require a huge number of people to be completely silent about such a thing for decades, and the other would require one loon to believe it.
It wouldn’t though. I’m not saying UAPs are extraterrestrial. I’m saying as long as each person who leaks is met with plenty of, “no, you’re crazy.” It would help contain it.
Both with pressure and delegitimization. Now… proof is the thing that’s required. Not simply testimony.
Asked whether the U.S. government had information about extraterrestrial life, Grusch said the U.S. likely has been aware of “non-human” activity since the 1930s.
If everyone who claims that is a loon (and they may be), then the leakers are auto-discredited.
Again and with clear emphasis because it looks like it was missed: I’m not saying UAPs are extraterrestrial. I’m making a meta-point.
If leakers are almost automatically easily classed as loons, then any inquiry isn’t an inquiry. They may be off their rockers.
And even “super-advanced tech” need not have extraterrestrial origin. But UAPs happen. We all seem to have forgotten O’Hare. Whatever happened was in passenger jet airspace.
Regardless of what planetary origin, UAPs deserve inquiry.
This is a thought provoking book. The author was even interviewed by Colbert and presented very cogently. Which is why I bought and read it.
Before anyone knee-jerks, it attempts to only use the most credible UAP encounters and looks at them with skepticism and a scientific mind.
To add onto this, iirc the current US policy of, “discredit and ignore” was created during the cold war because they didn’t want it to distract Americans from the red scare and possibility of nuclear war. They actually brought in a team of scientists to take all the project blue book cases and come up with a reason for what was happening, and if they couldn’t think of anything, they were supposed to just make something up. It’s why “swamp gas” and “weather balloons” are meme’d about. The result is that because the public stopped taking it seriously, the military stopped taking it seriously as well. Since then, I think I remember reading that some of the scientists have expressed regret for doing it because they saw reports that they couldn’t explain or even imagine an explanation for; but they wouldn’t have done it if they’d realized how strong of a chilling effect it’d have on the subject.
To be clear, I’m not saying that it is aliens either, but there was an effort made to discredit UFO reports and it worked extremely well.
loonnoun
1- Any of several fish-eating diving birds of the genus Gavia of northern regions, having a short tail, webbed feet, and a laughlike cry.
2- One who is crazy or deranged.
3- A stupid fellow; a clown: with various shades of intensity as an opprobrious epithet, like fool, dolt, etc.
lunaticnoun
1- A person who is affected by lunacy; a mentally deranged person.
2- A very foolish person.
3- A person affected with lunacy; specifically, an insane person who has lucid intervals, or one whose unsoundness of mind is acquired, not congenital, as distinguished from an idiot.
That being said, there is a significantly substantial body of evidence involved in disclosure efforts up to this point. Many government officials have come forward with variations of this story - Grusch is just the latest and the one with the most stature. His accounts are also the least wide-ranging and in my humble opinion, some of the most credible. Secondly, disclosure has been in-process by whistleblowers in other governments as well for multiple decades - there's a lot of credible evidence to suggest this isn't a new phenomena.
Having witnessed a few UAP at a distance myself (including some before drones took over the skies), I think that it's pretty clear that something we don't understand is here, and has been here for awhile now. I think the jury is out on whether or not they are intelligent, alive,or a phenomena related to physics we don't understand, but there's simply too much evidence to deny their reality, and I gotta confess, especially after seeing them in the sky, I really want to find out.
Grusch's actions are the first step in really figuring out if the DoD knows anything. He went through the proper legal routes, and he's whistleblowing on obvious obstruction that prevented him from performing the Congressional mandate of his job. He has everything to lose here, and nothing to gain. I'm inclined to believe him.
And yet the very fact you associate talking about UAPs with being a loon is the result of a dedicated effort by US intelligence.
After the front page news of sightings over Washington DC, it wasn’t very long until Gene Pope, an MIT graduate and previously part of the CIA’s psyops program, went and bought the National Enquirer and later the Weekly World News. Which made UFO news adjacent to batboy or gossip.
I happen to think the notion these are extraterrestrial is ludicrous and there’s many more reasonable explanations short of that conclusion. But there is a significant story in how these sightings have been handled over the past century up to the present day.
While I think alien hopefuls will be disappointed, interesting things should come out of this if continued to be pursued.
I mean, in his shoes I would probably also feel compelled to call out the loons in my field too. I hear dumb shit on social media websites concerning my actual domain of expertise, and I get accused of whatever when I call it out. Don’t get.in the way of a good outrage story, or conspiracy, unless you want to find out just how many loons are lurking out there.
If we have had access to technology that can manage the immense distances between livable planets in our galaxy for almost a hundred years and we cannot get a human to Mars, we are beyond hope.
If any of this has even the slightest grain of truth to it, you have to admit that we (humanity) are way to fucking dumb to ever explore the stars.
Fuck that’s a depressing thought. We have been looking at the tech for a century and we got nothing? I suppose that might be driving my bias on this. I am not asking for proof of the programs, I am asking why there is no evidence that humans have been looking at interstellar travel tech for a century. Either it’s horseshit, or we are hella dumb animals.
I bet the people who think the government is reverse engineering alien technology in perfect secrecy are also people who think the government is too incompetent to do anything right.
Legislative government and government-funded military aren’t the same thing. If the United States had access to alien technology first, hoarding it in secrecy would be a textbook military move.
It wouldn’t just be the US government. If alien artifacts are as common as some people make them out to be, every government in the world would have to not only be in on the conspiracy, but also doing their part masterfully in an age when everyone has a phone in their pocket capable of broadcasting to the whole world.
It’s even worse if they’re actually succeeding in reverse engineering alien technology, because they’d have to either never use it, or fake something like the Manhattan Project to explain where the technology came from.
Getting back to the idiocy of people who think governments can’t do anything right, those same people are often big fans on the military and law enforcement, completely failing to acknowledge that those things are functions of the government, because that would mean admitting the government can, in fact, do some things really well.
Cops are just lazy fucks. Call them about any crime and they can’t be bothered to even pretend to care anymore. I had a neighbor’s car theft recorded on HD with the thieve’s faces, plaates etc. The cops were so uninterested, took a week to collect the footage, and nothing came of it. Neighbor and I managed to track down the thief’s truck and called the cops with an address, they instead chewed us out and did nothing about the thieves
Oof, super cold? I have done financial support, and there were some cold fish. The biggest thing I have seen is whether they see you as an inside or an interloper.
Fun fact - in 1952 UFOs over Washington DC made the front page news across legit newspapers.
Also in 1952, Gene Pope, who graduated MIT in only three years, and was working in the CIA’s psyops program, left to buy up the National Enquirer.
Two years later he turned it into a nonsense tabloid rag that frequently featured UFO stories alongside claims Elvis still lived, etc.
He later had the Weekly World News, of batboy fame added to the mix.
So when you associate discussion of UFOs/UAPs with lizard people, you are doing so because of explicit earlier efforts in what was probably one of the most successful known intelligence agency propaganda programs in modern history.
The people on the stand in the hearing had legit credentials and knew exactly what they were talking about down to the specific mentions of UAPs in declassified parts of a 1970s US/USSR treaty and pointing legislators towards very specific next steps. And the legislators from both parties were treating it seriously even expressing their own frustrations at being uniquely turned away from their own investigations into an incident (that’s now a part of public record).
While I think the idea this stuff is alien is far less likely than other explanations - the taboo and dismissal towards it has a very detailed history that’s arguably even more interesting than the UAPs themselves (and evidently still extremely successful decades after initiated).
I lived in conservative california and that sounds about right. Only thing that kept us alive was that my spouse happens to be a vet and we’re asian so we get a pass. We lived there for a while until my spouse got a job after covid. They literally think that it’s a warzone out there. So much bullshit spread about the city. Of course the news just fans the flames.
This lady I knew never went to the fashion district in LA because she pretty much believed that her blond and blue eyed kids would be snatched off the streets by minorities. The ironic thing is that we lived off the I-15 which is a huge human trafficking corridor so the kidnapping would have more likely happened closer to where they live. Also phelan is full of meth heads but you know, that doesn’t matter.
The song is about sundown towns and that makes it racist AF.
Your spoiler didn't work for me on kbin's main site - just a heads up. Maybe put the content warning at the start rather than after the spoiler? I'm not affected fortunately (though I am disgusted), but it might help others.
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