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lntl , in When a Coke Plant Closed in Pittsburgh, Cardiovascular ER Visits Plunged

Maybe visits plunged because people left after they lost their jobs?

YerbaYerba ,

A little over 200 people lost their jobs when this plant closed, I doubt this was a large portion of the population.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Or maybe pollution is, and stop me if this is too difficult a concept, bad.

lntl ,

If it was “bad,” wouldn’t the EPA do something about it? Wouldn’t OSHA have some kind of regulation on how much bad air folks could breathe?

The actual experts on health and safety are quiet on this one, what makes you think you know better?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Hilarious that you think the EPA has any real power. And no, OSHA only regulates workplaces, not entire towns. Emissions, and I don’t know if you are aware of this, blow away from plants where they originate.

piecat ,

www.epa.gov/sites/…/coke-oven-emissions.pdf

EPA has classified coke oven emissions as a Group A, known human carcinogen.

Hmm

arc , in Sam Bankman-Fried living on bread and water because jail won't abide vegan diet, lawyer says

I don’t believe his choices are THAT limited. Most prisons will have a self-service line with a choice of boiled veg, rice, beans, potatoes, pasta, fruit, grits, oats. Also, and just generally, boo hoo for him. Funny how his ethics extend to what he eats, but not who he steals from.

crashoverride ,

Also bread and water is a vegan diet, lol

LeadSoldier ,

I have no idea what you are talking about. I was arrested when I was protesting in El Paso. They just brought trays of slop to us in our cells three times a day. It looked close to an '80s elementary school lunch but slightly lower quality. It really wasn’t reasonable. I was found not guilty because Americans are supposed to be able to protest. The FBI felt otherwise when they cut off part of the tape proving my innocence but got caught doing so without consequence.

arc ,

Federal institutions have a national menu that they’re meant to provide. I’ve linked to it elsewhere and if inmates don’t receive it then there are avenues to complain through. And to be clear I’m sure even in the best of circumstances the food still sucks, but there is a menu and there is choice. It is also VERY clearly spelt out in the MDC Brooklyn inmate’s handbook on page 13 what the food is and an inmate’s options regarding it and any religious / dietician exemptions.

IMO this is SBF being a precious entitled asshole in prison thinking he’s above the conditions that everyone else in there is subject to. “Oh look at poor me I have to eat bread water and peanut butter”. Meanwhile reality says he’s lying. This is merely the latest incident of him attempting to control the narrative. He can’t tamper with witness so he’s holding a pity party and we’re supposed to care.

31337 ,

Yeah, local jails are bad, and juvenile facilities are even worse. Been in both (but luckily not a federal facility).

The entire criminal justice system in the U.S. is evil. It’s all about money and retributive “justice” to get votes/campaign money. It serves no purpose otherwise, because it sure as hell ain’t built to rehabilitate people. Any attention to the wrongs of the system is welcome, IMO.

austin , in 81% of full-time workers want a 4-day work week – and they're willing to make sacrifices to get it

I’d work 2x 12 hour days and 1x 14 hour day. Heck, I’d work 2x 19 hour days. Or work 38 hours straight in one shift?

Treczoks , in Boeing says a new 737 Max flaw will slow airplane deliveries

Oh. Another one. Good that I don’t like flying, anyway.

Kbobabob ,

Another delivery delay? You waiting on your own 737 to be delivered?

andrewta ,

It’s a replacement for the backup to his Gulfstream.

uglyduckling81 , in 81% of full-time workers want a 4-day work week – and they're willing to make sacrifices to get it

I work a 9 day week. It’s shit. 4 day work week only works if you don’t have to do a 38hr week crammed into the remaining days.

I have to do 9 hr days to get that day off. The Friday I have to work is only a 4 hr day.

I often dream about just working all 7 days just so each day is shorter. If I did 4 hrs on Saturday and Sunday I could just do 7 hr days.

I fucking hate 9 hr days. I’m completely over it by 6 hrs.

I also consider just cutting back my hours to 24hrs, but then I think about my retirement. I don’t want to be super poor when I’m old so I need to work as much as possible for the next 10 years atleast before dialing back a bit until retirement.

Astroturfed , in Sam Bankman-Fried living on bread and water because jail won't abide vegan diet, lawyer says

I’m all for improving conditions in the prison system. However, with how bad we know it is, expecting a vegan diet is a bit laughable. I’m surprised they offer vegetarian options at all.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

I disagree. It’s a moral issue. What if someone was wrongly convicted? Force them to go against their moral system? I personally couldn’t bear to eat the flesh of an animal. I get this dudes a criminal but like, I don’t think the issue itself is laughable.

Astroturfed , (edited )

There was nothing to disagree with. I didn’t say I don’t think they shouldn’t supply vegan. I just know what the US prison system is like and wouldn’t expect them to. It’s fucking criminal gladiator college. There are some prisons that barely feed the inmates and make them need money for commissary food to not be hungry constantly.

I’m sure where SBF is being kept is a white collar low security place where they treat them better. They’re still treated like caged dogs though.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

Gotcha, i just thought the laughable part meant like ‘we shouldn’t care’. Yeah the prison system sucks

Nepenthe , (edited )
@Nepenthe@kbin.social avatar

Even if they weren't wrongly convicted. Murderer happens to follow any one of the religions that forbid pork? What's feeding them bacon going to accomplish, exactly? It's purely out of spite when the object is supposed to be to discourage reoffending. Treating people humanely makes them act human. Call them a dog and they'll act like a dog.

Even the more progressive can be like this. People have weird ideas about human worth being something measurable and thus rescindable.

solidgrue ,
@solidgrue@lemmy.world avatar

Just playing devil’s advocate here:

When a person does crime, they’ve decided to violate a Social Contact that says we all agree to abide by a body of laws for the benefit of us all. They’ve opted out of that system at some scale, be it stealing a loaf of bread, to fleecing thousands of people out of billions of dollars, to (on an orthogonal dimension) depriving people of their safety, civil rights, and very life. It is an abhorrent notion to many, but to many others, it’s just a way to “get ahead.” To crime is to assault the fabric of modern society.

It’s not an unreasonable response, then, when the abiding party (I.e., those who DIDN’T crime) say “this guy deserves to be treated the way he treated us.” Eye for an Eye is a VERY old code of punishment. Its also effective because it puts things in concrete, unambiguous terms.

But, ostensibly we are modern and cultured now. Now we can discuss where the lines are between where brutality must meet brutality and where compassion must meet intransigence, but really it’s all just academic. Not everyone can be rehabilitated, and not everyone deserves to be dignified when they have so befouled the social contract. Some people are truly, fundamentally broken and just need to be listed from Society for our collective good.

All to ready to pronounce social death, people are squeamish about what to do about the corpus of the Self they’d already damned. Capital punishment is cruel, lifetime incarceration is cruel, and while rehabilitation is preferred, it is intensive, time-consuming and perhaps ultimately fruitless for the most incorrigible among us.

So what do you do? Someone’s will has to be broken here. For the good of us all.

Franzia ,

I think the statistics show our non-rehab priaon system only hardens the will of criminals, and if we want to break their will to do crime we will actually have to show them compassion, as dozens of other countries are successfully doing.

Draconic_NEO ,
@Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world avatar

Absolutely, there needs to be an effort to help people become better citizens, and not just beating them down. People who you beat down fight back to protect themselves, which is literally the opposite of what you want here (unless the goal is to have more people rescinding).

CaptainEffort ,

Ummm… you think an eye for an eye is effective? You realize the saying is “an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind”, right?

solidgrue ,
@solidgrue@lemmy.world avatar

I was staking out a rhetorical position for the sake of debate. “Devil’s Advocate.” As much as said so on the tin. Didn’t really get a debate going though.

Personally, no. I think “eye for an eye” is an abhorrent mode of punishment, excepting that there needs to be a spine for dealing with the most incorrigible and truly evil among us. I don’t profess to know what that spine is, though.

CaptainEffort ,

Okay good, that’s my bad for missing that. Sorry for the misunderstanding!

solidgrue ,
@solidgrue@lemmy.world avatar

Cheers! 🍻

Ejh3k ,

At what point do you consider something not an animal? Is it a size consideration? Like, you’d eat a hummingbird but not a chicken? Warm versus cold blooded? Is it vertebrae versus endoskeleton? Would you eat ants and crickets?

Because I get the whole no animal by products, but fermented foods are animal by products. Most breads have yeasts in it, those are animals. Beer and wine, same.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

This is a completely different topic but okay.

Since you want specifics, veganism isn’t actually about animals, its about sentient beings. I wouldn’t eat a cow or a dog or a human, because they each have the capacity to suffer and the desire to live. Anything that has this capacity is off the table for vegans. Even bugs, while obviously being less sentient than a cow or human, still demonstrate this in some capacity. So no, I just eat plants and fungi. Technically I could eat a jellyfish or even an oyster (although vegans debate it), since this capacity has not been demonstrated by them. Why would I harm others for my own pleasure/sustenance when there is an alternative, especially an alternative that is cheaper, healthier, and far more sustainable?

Yeast is a fungus by the way.

such_lettuce7970 ,
@such_lettuce7970@kbin.social avatar

Why would I harm others for my own pleasure/sustenance when there is an alternative...?

This, for me, has always been the very simple point and it pains me how many people just don't get it.

commie ,

the vegan society specifically says animals

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

And? That’s one organizations definition, and the reason they say “all animals” is not because they give jellyfish moral value, but because most nonvegans only respect the rights of humans and a few animals like dogs and cats. So we say “all animals” to generally say we are being morally consistent. Jellyfish and oysters just happen to be edge cases of animals existing without sentience.

commie ,

the founder of the vegan society also coined the term vegan.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

and coined it before the vegan society existed. They aren’t the owners of veganism. Its a philosophy. Don’t ignore the rest of that comment either. Or stop making this stupid point that no vegan actually believes

commie ,

you’re only giving one vegan’s definition. you don’t speak for everyone.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

Perfect, now we can agree the vegan society is just an organization

commie ,

calling me stupid doesnt bolster your position at all.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

Didn’t call you stupid, I called your point stupid. Why couldn’t you consolidate these replies?

commie ,

ah, the rhetorical equivalent of a ten year old saying “i’m not touching you”.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

i literally did not call you stupid, but now i am. you’re stupid

commie ,

calling me stupid does not bolster your position.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

i know, im just calling you stupid

commie ,

calling me stupid doesn’t bolster your position.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

i can do this all day, stupid

commie ,

Why couldn’t you consolidate these replies?

i prefer to deal with one topic at a time.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

this makes this conversation impossible to keep track of. you’re just spamming my inbox

commie ,

Don’t ignore the rest of that comment either.

don’t tell me what to do

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

Okay continue making a stupid point instead of listening.

commie ,

calling me stupid doesnt bolster your position at all.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

once again, called your point stupid. you are making shit up

commie ,

“i’m not touching you”

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

you are the one acting like a ten year old rn

commie ,

“no, you are” isn’t exactly a step up here.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

the only one saying these phrases is you.

commie ,

the reason they say “all animals” is not because they give jellyfish moral value

prove this. please find me any proof this is true.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

Source: I’m a vegan and interact with other vegans…

commie ,

this is anecdotal, and you’ve already said you don’t agree with the vegan society, so i don’t see any reason to believe your interpretation of their very explicit claim over what they actually say.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

i didnt say i don’t agree with them. I’m saying your are overanalyzing the definition. this whole argument is opinion, everything is going to be anecdotal…

commie ,

i’m reading the words they wrote. you’re saying “they didn’t mean the words they wrote”

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

you are misusing a definition. its like using newtonian physics for large scale systems. newton wasnt wrong but his equations aren’t great for talking about galaxies and black holes.

commie ,

newton WAS wrong.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

wow. you already made it clear you dont understand what evidence is for or how things are proven. its no surprise you dont understand science and theories. newton was not wrong. his physics are for a different scope than einstein physics.

commie ,

you already made it clear you dont understand what evidence is for or how things are proven. its no surprise you dont understand science and theories.

my degree is in logic and reasoning with a focus on scientific reasoning.

i know what i know, but i’m starting to doubt you know what you claim.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

okay then name the fallacy you just made by using your degree as your entire argument there

commie ,

what argument do you think i put forth? that you are claiming the vegan society didn’t mean what they said? that we don’t have proof to support your claims? there is no argument at all. i’m just spitting facts.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

nice job changing subjects. ah come on guys, im just spittin facts yo

commie ,

you said yourself you were having trouble keeping track of the conversation. i assure you, i know exactly what i said.

commie ,

you’re claiming they don’t mean the words they chose.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

nope. you are just stubborn

commie ,

anyone who reads your comment cannot come to any other conclusion than you think the vegan society didn’t mean all animals when that’s what they wrote.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

speak for yourself shithead

Reggito9345 ,

Do you think you can teach a lion to eat Tofu too? 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

commie ,

Jellyfish and oysters just happen to be edge cases of animals existing without sentience.

you can’t prove this.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

well they don’t have fucking brains lol. why would an oyster evolve the capacity to suffer and fear and desire to live when they literally don’t control where they move? it would be a waste of energy. an oyster’s nervous system is about as complex as your finger…

commie ,

why would an oyster evolve the capacity to suffer and fear and desire to live when they literally don’t control where they move?

there is no proof any nonhuman animal has a “desire to live” because there isn’t proof they understand personal mortality.

as for whether they have the capacity to suffer, which is all that sentience really seems to require, you can’t prove that they don’t have the capacity to suffer because you can’t prove a negative. the best you can say is that you don’t think there is enough evidence to support a claim that they ARE sentient.

norawibb , (edited )
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

if you saw a human from a tribe who spoke a language you would never understand, how do you know they feel pain and want to live? if you kick a dog, how do you know the dog didn’t enjoy it? maybe people who are asleep dont feel pain or want to live. lets just eat people in comas, or who speak other languages, and lets beat dogs because its so unclear whether they like it or not

Animals must just run from danger because the wind pushes them that way. Wonder why dogs wag their tails when they see humans. Strange. Nah no proof they have desires or fears

commie ,

maybe sentience or wanting to live aren’t metrics we should use as the basis of our morality.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

no, you are just the only one stupid enough to think its unprovable

commie ,

i didn’t say it’s unprovable. you’re putting words in my mouth.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

You’re one to talk. No you said “you cant prove” like a million times

commie ,

you’re saying i said you can’t prove something i didn’t say you couldn’t prove though. you literally invented a position.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

no, no i didn’t.

commie ,

anyone can follow this comment chain up to see exactly what i’ve said and where you put words in my mouth.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

weird how your comments got downvoted and mine got upvoted

commie ,

bandwagon fallacy.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

fallacy fallacy

commie ,

wrong.

commie ,

why should those be the metrics on which you base morality?

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

Do you wish to feel pain, or be murdered? Probably not, so why would you do it to someone else with the capacity to feel pain and desire to live? Empathy is the basis.

commie ,

sometimes pain is necessary or even good. and the only creature i know of which understands personal mortality, and so can have a desire to live, is humans, and i think homicide is bad, but i don’t think that is related to having a desire to live.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

but you havent spoken to all humans. you haven’t proven they feel pain. pain being a necessity or good is your opinion. If I think, “hmm i like being raped”, does that make it okay to do to others, or should i be smart enough to see that other people dont like it WITHOUT having to literally fucking ask them. What does this argument matter when you are the kind of mf who wouldn’t understand consent. “Uh your honor, they didnt say they werent enjoying it and thus there was no other way to tell they didnt want to have sex”

commie ,

another accusation of sexual deviancy coupled with a demonstration that you don’t actually understand the topic. brilliant.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

your degree isnt helping you understand anything

commie ,

calling me stupid doesn’t undermine my position or bolster yours.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

never said it would, stupid

commie ,

more ad hominem.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

gets insulted

“ad hominem”

commie ,

right.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

i feel like this is how one can discern whether someone is arguing to reach a conclusion or arguing to try to ‘win’ something. i insulted you, it wasnt an argument dumbass, lol. yet you still blurted out a logical fallacy name

commie ,

Animals must just run from danger because the wind pushes them that way. Wonder why dogs wag their tails when they see humans. Strange. Nah no proof they have desires or fears

none of this is proof they understand personal mortality, which is the crux if this disagreement.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

No it’s not the crux. Avoiding danger to protect their lives is pretty good proof.

A man follows a woman and she runs away.

The man: “she could still wanna have sex”

Maybe you’d be better seeing all the animals that mourn deaths of others.

commie ,

Avoiding danger to protect their lives is pretty good proof.

you’re observing behavior and assuming cognition. you need to prove the cognition, and behavior is evidence but not proof.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

-said the man, still following the woman

commie ,

accusing your interlocutors of sexual deviancy is a classic ad hominem.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

not ad hominem. you just dont understand the point, or refuse to engage meaningully

commie ,

this “no you are” tactic has a latin name

commie ,

Maybe you’d be better seeing all the animals that mourn deaths of others.

mourning death of others is not proof that an animal know it, itself, might die.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

ah the “I’m not touching you” argument

commie ,

this distinction is the crux of the matter. your inability to address it meaningfully and nonsequitur of an accusation belie either a lack of understanding or a malicious intent to engage in bad faith. i can see no other explanation.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

i addressed it, you are just a stubborn fuck who has been in bad faith from the start. you have made so many assertions with no basis, then get mad at shit i literally don’t even say

commie ,

you should reread this.

norawibb ,
@norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

wow i can see how you argued like a 12 year old who watched a ben shapiro video and had many logical inconsistencies

commie ,

had many logical inconsistencies

show one

Reggito9345 ,

Animals aren’t really conscious they don’t understand or feel anything they just make noises and react, those piggies squealed when I cut them back on the farm not because it hurt but because they are animals, that’s just what they do. They automatically react, they don’t have thoughts, feelings, emotions, hopes & dreams or any of that other nonsense just basic instincts and unconscious reactions.

Franzia ,

Seriously another issue where every country on earth has the solution and America just doesn’t want to accept the answer.

grue ,

…expecting a vegan diet is a bit laughable. I’m surprised they offer vegetarian options at all.

“Surprised” is the wrong word, but this thread has me wondering why all prison food isn’t vegan. Never mind respecting people’s religious/ethical/whatever preferences; why are we wasting meat on folks who don’t deserve it? Just making everything vegan would be (a) the simplest “lowest common denominator” of dietary restrictions, and more importantly (b) the cheapest/most environmentally sustainable option (disregarding subsidies to the meat/dairy industry).

(On the other hand, this is half rhetorical because I’m also remembering about a documentary I watched about Alcatraz, which mentioned that the food was intentionally good in part to stave off prison riots.)

Reggito9345 ,

They should cover all his food in pig blood before he can eat it, that would be funny. Here’s your vegan vegetables topped with pig blood, that would be so hilarious 🤣

HorreC , in Gunfire at a California biker bar kills 4 people, including the shooter, and wounds 5 more
@HorreC@kbin.social avatar

They leaned into the fact it was a biker bar, didnt wanna post on the headline that it was a former sheriff that was the one that started the shooting and then also fired on the cops who then took them down.

Kbobabob ,

Hell yeah they did!

Hazdaz , in Sam Bankman-Fried living on bread and water because jail won't abide vegan diet, lawyer says

And yet somehow prisons offer kosher meals.

Reggito9345 ,

They shouldn’t do that either, make them eat pigs, they’re in prison they don’t get to be picky.

Hazdaz ,

I agree, and yet simply stating a fact apparently gets you downvoted.

FuglyDuck , in CVS pushes into making cheaper versions of complex drugs with new discount Humira
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

Most of the savings come from using microprinting techniques for their receipts

jjjalljs , in Pride flag killing suspect appears to have a long history of anti-LGBTQ social posts

Seems like stochastic terrorism again.

Also a little surprised the police shot him instead of making nice. On the one hand I’m not sad the violent bigot is dead. On the other summary execution by the police is fucked up.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You mean the results of stochastic terrorism? Because what he did was just plain terrorism.

jjjalljs ,

Yes, you are correct.

Furball ,

Summary execution? It’s a gunfight, he was shooting at the police using his gun.

jjjalljs ,

Is there a better phrase for “he was killed without a trial” than “summary execution”?

Furball ,

Yes, killed in a gunfight. Execution by definition means that the person has already been subdued.

afraid_of_zombies ,

If he had been shooting at BLM protesters he would have been given a medal.

Furball ,

Thanks for this very related comment

barbedbeard , in 81% of full-time workers want a 4-day work week – and they're willing to make sacrifices to get it

81%? that’s like… 4 out of 5 right?

pH3ra ,
@pH3ra@lemmy.ml avatar

I see what you did there

shiroininja , in South Carolina's new all-male highest court reverses course on abortion, upholding strict 6-week ban

I’m ashamed of my fellow men sometimes.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

For me… A lot of times.

j7889 , in Fukushima wastewater released into the ocean, China bans all Japanese seafood

Well China should ban their own fish, since they release waste tritium themselves. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritium

sin_free_for_00_days , in Infamous fiasco Fyre Festival relaunches — and is already sold out

Even if it’s shitty, at least it gives these losers something to talk about compared to the rest of their vapid wastes of lives.

Thedogspaw ,

Don’t worry I’m sure there vast amounts of money will help them recover from your bitter criticism

Clent ,

deleted_by_moderator

  • Loading...
  • sin_free_for_00_days ,

    I’m pretty sure having that much money would cure me of my bitterness too.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, the rich are so superior and better than the rest of us, am I right?

    Thedogspaw ,

    Attacks on xi and putin doesn’t make someone a tech bro you guys are great at gaslighting not so good at making rational arguments

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    What are you even talking about?

    Nioxic , in Sam Bankman-Fried living on bread and water because jail won't abide vegan diet, lawyer says

    So there IS a vegan option.

    Bread and water.

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