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StaySquared ,

Wait… if you were building a home with this lumber, at least parts of it, wouldn’t this technically hurt the integrity, or better yet, be less structurally sound? Or am I a dumb dumb?

johnlobo ,

yes, no dumb dumb

shitescalates ,

2x2 is not a structural type of lumber. Houses use 2X4 or 2X6 for structure.

StaySquared ,

Oh good… Yeah, I’m ignorant in home construction.

wjrii ,

It’s still a bit small, but pressure treated being a little smaller than framing lumber is not necessarily a secret:

www.lowes.com/pd/…/4764128

LordCrom ,

Well shit. That explains alot

A_A ,
@A_A@lemmy.world avatar

How is it in countries using the metric system ?
in France :
mara-materiaux.com/…/8094-lambourde-38x63-mm-long…

LAMBOURDE 38x63 mm long.4 M TRAITE Unité de vente : le mètre linéaire 1.42 € /m
5.68 € /(4 m)

So, this is aprox ($6.?) for one “…2x3x(~13ft)…”
(treated wood)
… verry expensive, yet, upfront size disclosure.

Geth ,

Pretty much all of Europe lists wood in exact size of the cut that you get. It sounds highly illegal to call it a 5x5cm piece of wood and sell some other random smaller size.

Theharpyeagle ,

Thank God freedom units give us the liberty of doing away with that commie nonsense.

el_abuelo ,

Why is 2x2 meant to be 1.5x1.5 and not 2x2?

pythonoob ,

Premill size vs sale size. Something like that. Probably not the correct term.

Similar to how steak is measures in precooked weights.

VeryNiiiice ,

2x4 is the rough cut dimensions from the sawmill. They end up smaller after drying (wood can hold a lot of water) and planing.

phx ,

*Planed/straight wood versus raw lumber. It threw me off when I first started building stuff and summed that a 2x4 was actually 2"x4" in all my measurements/plans

*Or it would be straight if you’re lucky and don’t pick from the top of the bin at Home Depot

towerful ,

The old * uncooked weight

Agrivar ,

Is nobody gonna call out OP for wearing socks with sandals? …and, ostensibly, while preparing to do carpentry?!?

That’s like a cardinal sin squared!

refalo ,

don’t forget the unbranded Chinesium calipers.

Mitutoyo or bust.

oatscoop ,

My toolbag calipers are cheap hardware store ones. They’re accurate enough and I’m not out much when they inevitably get damaged or lost.

bluewing ,

For a machinist yep. For home gamers, a waste of money. They don’t have the knowledge of where and when to use them nor the skills to get accurate repeatable measurements. So for OP’s use whatever CCC, (Cheap, Cheerful, Chinese), caliper he’s got is good enough.

It’s the definition of “nominal size is what ever we say it is” that pisses me off. Buying wood/lumber is the worst offender of Nominal sizing, but even metals are getting worse. I used to buy a round bar of say, ASA1018 and it would be +0"/-.002". It’s now +0/-.006", (that’s +0/-.05mm and +0/-.15mm for those living in Boca Raton). At the end of my career as a toolmaker I was often forced to purchase oversized stock and waste time turning said stock into the actual sizes required.

Death_Equity ,

I can accept the poor quality tools that might be off by a few hundredths, but using imperial on precision measurement devices is unforgivable.

Obi ,
@Obi@sopuli.xyz avatar

At least the socks aren’t white.

Coreidan ,

Nah nothing wrong with wearing socks with sandals when you’re home. Do what ever the hell you want.

But I do agree with wearing proper footwear while doing dangerous things.

fatboy93 ,

Oh absolutely. I wear socks with sandals because my soles sweat and make my sandals sticky.

But yeah, wear proper attire for the work you do!

sicarius ,

Steel toe capped crockshttps://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/ef26cdac-1729-485b-ac4d-69d08ab68bdb.jpeg

CanadaPlus ,

I love this idea. I’m not even sure why, I don’t own crocks.

jenny_ball ,
@jenny_ball@lemmy.world avatar

Jesus did it

Glytch ,

Not in socks

nrezcm ,

No need to crucify him for it.

Death_Equity ,

In the Garden of Gethsemane, the only sin he saw that gave Jesus second thoughts of dying for our sins was socks and sandals.

bluewing ,

Can’t you see those are safety sandals. And just like safety squints, are approved PPE across the whole 3rd world industrial sphere. OP will be perfectly safe.

SkyezOpen ,

Nope. Definitely dead. https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/6afe3274-1937-4cdb-a4da-f3441852bbd1.png

JasonDJ ,

My COVID home-improvement project was hardwoods. Something like 1000sqft. Never did it before. Did 90% of it wearing no more than basketball shorts and flipflops. W/e. Only a few toe injuries.

CanadaPlus ,

Well if it was only a few. /s

Dozzi92 ,

That’s only 30% of toes, unless we’re going by overall volume.

AceFuzzLord ,

I don’t condone it, but I’ve done something similar once in a Boy Scouts meeting as a scout. Had sandals on and I don’t remember the full meeting, but at one point we were chopping wood with an axe. I did it, but that’s not my brightest move. There was also a time where I was getting my metalworking badge and entered the forge one time for a kinda free time work on your project thing with shorts on by mistake. Nobody stopped me in either case. This wasn’t pre-2000s, so I’m not sure how I got away with either event considering safety is usually taken much more seriously nowadays.

Grass , (edited )

I regularly wear socks and sandals along with shorts and a sweater.

There was also a time I went to lunch with that plus a lab coat and hairnet.

irreticent ,
@irreticent@lemmy.world avatar

Sounds like a Rick and Morty episode.

Sam_Bass ,

Nothing is immune to shrinkflation aka merchant gouging

refalo ,

What is your definition of gouging

modifier ,

Highly relevant when topically adjacent to woodworking.

Sam_Bass ,

Increasing prices just to fill corporate pockets, or keeping prices elevated far beyond the market necessity

shitescalates ,

This has nothing to do with shrinkflation. Just an oddity of the US lumber sizing.

XeroxCool ,

2x2PT has been 1.25x1.25 for as long as I can remember (10 years or more). It’s only the pressure treated deck stuff for railings. This does not apply to the rest of the 2x lumber, as those are still 1.5 actual. I got Simpson corner 2x2 brackets for crazy cheap way back but ended up not really using them. The 2x2s are warped to hell and a ripped 2x4 was too big in the original 2x dimension.

Windex007 ,

I’m wondering if it’s a regional thing? I just looked online for pressure treated 2x2’s and all the ones I’m seeing (home hardware, home depot, advantage lumber, etc) list as actual being 1.5x1.5

Blackout OP ,
@Blackout@kbin.run avatar

That's possible. I just moved from CA to MI 2 years ago. I know they were 1.5 then because I built alot of props and temp walls with it. I was reusing a 3d printed joint I designed to make a garden trellis when I noticed the wood didnt fit like before.

RampantParanoia2365 ,

Is this pressure treated or common?

distantsounds ,

Fire Walk with Me - 2x4s (Deleted scene)

RagnarokOnline ,

Top comment, this. This is gonna be my default when folks ask about dimensional lumber sizes in the future

sanguinepar ,
@sanguinepar@lemmy.world avatar

Beat me to it!

RIP Jack Nance and Ed Wright.

PriorityMotif ,
@PriorityMotif@lemmy.world avatar

Distributors send their junk to home stores because they know they won’t reject it.

Corkyskog ,

They don’t even send back the garbage pieces, just restock if they get returned

possiblylinux127 ,

There is quite a lot of deviation with lumber these days. If you need something the right size go for a higher quality and then measure them until you find the one you are looking for.

some_guy ,

Um, wait. I would think that violates some sort of law (but I guess maybe we haven’t codified this?). I mean, building plans expect standards in materials, right? So how can a building meet codes if the materials are not within the expected specs?

RidgeDweller ,

Agreed, seems like some kind of weights and measures violation.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

I’m going to guess they can get away with this because 2x2s aren’t intended for structural use. I’ve never built one into a floor, wall or ceiling.

STOMPYI ,

Sounds like the situation here… good call

SchmidtGenetics ,

Used for furring strips everywhere. Line a block wall with them and sheet it for example.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

Would you call that a “structural use?”

SchmidtGenetics , (edited )

That was one example, you can also strap roofs to install sheet metal cladding. Is that not structural? Strap a ceiling? There’s a ceiling use for you.

I figured if I gave you a real world example you could do a little research of your own. Even googling 2x2 will get you a big box store furring strip page. You should know what furring strips are if you are in the industry.

OutsizedWalrus ,

No, that’s not structural since the furring strips are not integral to load bearing capacity of the structure.

In your sheet metal example, they are only there for visual reasons - to help keep the roof flat. The roof can be put down without the furring strips. It might bend, but it still function as a roof.

SchmidtGenetics ,

The roof can be put down without the furring strips. It might bend, but it still function as a roof.

What…? Roof trusses go parallel with the length of the cladding panel, you require furring strips on the perpendicular to install them. Just like in a wall with the studs vertical, you need horizontal furring to install them.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/22b2cd82-fc17-4f81-9786-714cac114cf8.jpeg

These required larger furring strips due to truss spacing.

Furring strips are not visual lmfao. They are structural components in a lot of assemblies. Without knowing the assembly you can’t say if they are or aren’t structural, that’s the entire point I’ve been trying to make here. You aren’t the quickest one are you? I’ve pointed this out multiple times. There are thousands of use cases where furring strips are structural. To say they aren’t structural is fucking asinine lmfao.

OutsizedWalrus ,

Those aren’t furring strips in that photo. That’s dimensional lumber. In this case, those spans are large enough that they require the strength of actual lumber.

SchmidtGenetics ,

Those aren’t furring strips in that photo. That’s dimensional lumber. In this case, those spans are large enough that they require the strength of actual lumber.

Yes I literally just explained that in detail in the comment you responded to……

Rekorse ,

Can I just ask for clarification?

You: here is furring strips being used as support, with a screenshot

Other Poster: the things you are referring to as furring strips, are actually not furring strips

You: Thats what I said in the first post!

Aren’t you agreeing here that you are mistaken on what a furring strip is?

SchmidtGenetics , (edited )

If the trusses were closer together you would use the 2x2 furring strips since it could support the weight. Since it can’t support the weight you need to use 2x4s so the picture isn’t showing 2x2 furring strips but if you aren’t a fucking moron you would realize that’s where they are used.

Buddy got caught saying something structural isn’t, so now they’re throwing shit at the wall to save face. And unfortunately down in this part of the thread is all the the fucking morons.

People in the industry would know what I was talking about, clearly it’s a bunch of people who aren’t since I apparently need to explain it in this section like people are 6 years old.

2x2 furring strips are fucking structural and are used in thousands of uses where they are structural. Yet this moron is claiming they aren’t lmfao. You guys are fucking idiots lmfao.

Rekorse ,

I dont really have a leg in this race, it does seem like throughout this thread you do showcase a lot of working knowledge.

Gotta say its confusing figuring out what the actual issue here is in coming to an understanding.

SchmidtGenetics ,

Furring strips can be any material, plywood, 2x4, 2x6.

I think people are getting stuck on the 2x2 furring strips being the only type of furring strip, which isn’t the case. You can just use 2x2s in a lot of cases, and there is a specific product called furring strips to use for furring or whatever else you want.

Some people even buy 2x4s and rip down their own furring strips of 2x2 if the span doesn’t need the 4 inches.

Rekorse ,

Good to know, thank you for sharing!

Closest I ever got to construction work like that was working for about a year as a residential painter, and sometimes would work alongside other contractors.

I really need to make woodworking/carpentry my next thing to learn about, plenty of places in my house could use the work.

DrBob ,

Structural use means load bearing. So no.

SchmidtGenetics ,

Furring strips are used in plenty of places, I provide one example where it is used in most residential homes to support drywall.

Is it not structural if it’s holding ceiling drywall…? So why are people still bickering that walls aren’t structural when they still hold drywall up…?

If it’s part of a code wall detail, would that not be structural…?

What’s with the pedantism over something like this to try and save face over not knowing what a furring strip is?

OutsizedWalrus ,

No, that’s is not structural.

Structural means it’s intended to support and transfer loads in a way that cannot be safely removed.

Since neither the furring strips or drywall are part of a structural requirement, they are not load bearing.

SchmidtGenetics ,

Drywall is structural, when used on block walls it helps provide lateral support.

This is why being pedantic usually backfires.

Drywall is inherently structural.

Regardless. It’s furring strips, you want to argue furring strips aren’t used in structural applications? They are used in all three applications the person said they haven’t used them in. They also claimed to be a wood wroker elsewhere, so I don’t see how they would use anything structural anyways….

OutsizedWalrus ,

Drywall is not structural on block walls. The blocks are structural themselves.

The drywall may help minimize shifting/settling but the dreary is not a structurally required component of the block wall.

SchmidtGenetics ,

What’s that got to do with furring strips that can be used in structural drywall applications? We are getting too far from the original point.

You agree drywall is structural and that’s all that matters to this discussion.

And yes, if the furring strips and drywall are detailed in the plan, they are structural components since it has to be built as designed.

Just because they can also be used in non-structural uses doesn’t negate their structural use dude.

John_McMurray ,

Dry wall is not fucking structural. Jesus. Doesn’t even have the integrity to compress too thick of insulation without pulling through the screws.

SchmidtGenetics ,

Absolutely incorrect

OutsizedWalrus ,

Yes, it provided load support but it’s not providing structural load support……

To be extremely clear, your own, provided definition, is not talking about structural components.

Yes, on an interior, non-structural wall drywall can stiffen the structure. No, that does not mean the drywall is structural.

SchmidtGenetics , (edited )

You’ve never heard of a drywall shear wall…?

God, why is so hard for people to accept drywall is structural lmfao. It’s not stiffening it, read the provided link it explains it quite well multiple times with extra resources for you to follow up if you choose.

Every component we have talked about can be used structurally, I’m sorry you just apparently haven’t encountered one of the over 1500 different wall assemblies that use them…?

OutsizedWalrus ,

Well, you’ve changed the goalposts from drywall on furring strips to a shear wall.

SchmidtGenetics ,

Uhhh what…? I was explaining how everything is structural while you kept moving the goalposts away from furring strips being able to be used structurally. Yeah I picked a not so great example, but they are still fucking structural components lmfao.

Give your head a shake.

GreyEyedGhost ,

Most places that we’re going to talk about have an electrical code as part of the building code. Is electrical wiring structural?

SchmidtGenetics ,

Did you respond to the wrong comment or something?

GreyEyedGhost ,

No.

SchmidtGenetics ,

Okay then, that has nothing to do with whats being discussed, but you’re free to comment about electrical I guess.

GreyEyedGhost ,

I thought we were discussing what qualifies as structural. I guess we’re just talking about whatever you feel like talking about.

SchmidtGenetics , (edited )

I’ve been defending my points about how certain components of structural assemblies are structural.

You can also use a sheet of plywood in non-structural ways. No different than claiming that these furring strips and sheets of drywall aren’t structural. I can point out plenty of places where plywood isn’t structural, but that doesn’t change that it’s still used structurally.

I think this thread is being taken over by people with zero education on this subject. What’s with all the insults for pointing out the painfully obvious? Oh that’s right, people don’t like being proven they are dumb and lash out as a last result. That’s right.

Blocked.

OutsizedWalrus ,

But, furring strips don’t have the integrity or quality control to be structural components. Part of why they’re so cheap is because they’re complete junk structural.

I think might be confusing furring strips (a specific type of wood product) with anything laid against another structure (brick wall, studs, etc).

SchmidtGenetics ,

But, furring strips don’t have the integrity or quality control to be structural components.

Why do you claim that? Lots of assembly details call them out.

Part of why they’re so cheap is because they’re complete junk structural.

They aren’t cheap though? Almost all dimensional lumber is paid by the board foot. A 2x2 furring strip is about 50% the price of the same length 2x4.

Why are you being continuing to be disingenuous and still moving goal posts…? They are absolutely structural. They are used to hold up ceiling panels, which is always a load bearing structural use.

OutsizedWalrus ,

I just realized that you’re confusing gypsum board with drywall. While they are similar, gypsum board can be used for the loads you’re describing.

Drywall, however, cannot.

SchmidtGenetics ,

I just realized that you’re confusing gypsum board with drywall. While they are similar, gypsum board can be used for the loads you’re describing.

Uhh… what…? They are the exact same product. You’re gonna have to provide a link for this one lmfao.

Are you seriously just going to throw shit at the wall and move every goalpost to try and save face now? Jesus fucking Christ lmfao.

Due to its inherent fire resistance, gypsum board, commonly known as drywall is the premier building material for wall, ceiling, and partition syst…

From

I feel like yours still going to make an idiot of yourself after this comment as well.

bitwaba ,

This is why being pedantic usually backfires

No shit. You’re giving us a master class on it right now.

bluewing ,

I’m not an architect, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn.

The easiest way to think about an element being “structural” or not is is to consider what can happen if you remove that element - will the roof/wall collapse on top of you or not. If the answer is no, the roof/wall will not fall down, it’s not “Structural” or “Load Bearing” If the roof/wall can fall down on if you remove it, it is “structural” or “load bearing”.

So, using your example, if you were to remove the drywall and furring strips from that cement block wall, will the wall and ceiling be in danger of collapse? If it is, then it was structural. If not, then it wasn’t structural.

The Architects and Civil Engineers that I have known, do not consider drywall or furring strips to “structural” when designing a building. I’m going with their consensus on this matter.

SchmidtGenetics ,

The Architects and Civil Engineers that I have known, do not consider drywall or furring strips to “structural” when designing a building. I’m going with their consensus on this matter.

Jesus Christ, just because it can be used in non-structural application does not mean it can’t be used structurally else where. It’s also hilarious that you think we are ever going to think this has come up in a conversation before lmfao. You clearly are already taking out of your ass, but I’ll bite since the idiocy people are coming up with is entertaining as hell….

Furring strips and drywall are both used in structural applications since they are both structural components.

If a ceiling is strapped with them to provide lateral support and the ceiling is also cladded with drywall for additional lateral support. Congrats, both just got used in a load bearing application… I’m sorry apparently the architects and engineers you use haven’t come across this very common application?

You clearly have no clue on the matter lmfao.

DrBob ,

Furring strips and drywall don’t count as load bearing. Structural means that it carries the weight of the overlying structure. Basically if the building falls down if that element is missing, it’s structural. So staircases for instance are almost never structural. Many interior walls are not load bearing so they can get knocked down without consequence. You can also split a room by building a wall that won’t be load bearing.

SchmidtGenetics ,

Furring strips and drywall don’t count as load bearing.

Except for the thousands of use cases where they are used for lateral bracing to support the structure….

Like in shear walls… strapped drywall ceilings… load bearing walls….

Yes they can be used non-structurally, I’ve never claimed otherwise, yet you are ignoring the fact that they can, and are used in load bearing structural applications……

Carighan ,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

To someone from central europe it’s always weird how houses get build from wood in the US. 😅 I imagine you can hear ~everything happening ~anywhere in the house?

NielsBohron , (edited )
@NielsBohron@lemmy.world avatar

Depends. The cheap houses, yeah, there’s as fair bit of noise, but you can’t hear everything. From downstairs, you can hear when someone walks across the room above you, but not when they’re walking in other upstairs rooms. And from rooms on the same level, you can hear if someone is talking loudly in the room next door, but not enough to make out what they’re saying unless they’re yelling.

Well-built houses or buildings made for occupancy by multiple families usually have better sound insulation between the rooms/floors/units, so it’s not always an issue.

Edit: the plus side to that is I know all the noises my house makes at night, so as a light sleeper, I know when something is wrong in the middle of the night, and I only need one decent sound system for the whole house, which is great for listening to records while doing housework.

Swedneck ,
@Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

it’s extremely common for americans to dismiss apartments because they simply cannot fathom the idea of housing that actually blocks noise, it’s one of the primary arguments i see used against denser housing.

nickwitha_k ,

Yup. Over here in the Western US, nearly every apartment is built as cheaply as possible and run by slumlords that will do everything that they can to refuse to return deposits. Painting over bugs and black mold between tenants is the norm, in my experience, not the exception. Add to that that insulation between apartments is scant, if present and frequently there are no physical barriers between apartment building attic accesses (in every top-story apartment that I’ve been in, it would be easily possible to gain access to others’ apartments via the attic and the attics also act to channel sound between all top apartments).

profdc9 ,

It’s a big improvement from making them from straw.

n0m4n ,

I spent a few nights in a straw bale home, wanting to experience what they were like. They are incredibly quiet. Each bale is 1.5 ft of soundproofing/insulation. The loudest part of the house was the clock ticking. The house was heated by appliances such as the refrigerator and water heater. A local monastery built several to rent out for people wanting a tranquil contemplation.

oatscoop ,

Not really, unless the house was built incredibly cheaply with thin studs and crappy drywall.

Wood is pretty decent at blocking sound – it the voids between the studs that’s an issue. Filling them with sound deadening insulation solves that problem.

It’s not as good at blocking sound as a masonry wall obviously, but it’s “good enough” at a fraction of the price.

Theharpyeagle ,

I want to say that stick-built homes are really not so fragile as people seem to think. There’s tradeoffs, of course, and ways to build them that make them uncomfortable at best and blatantly unsafe at worst. That being said, they’re pretty sturdy, fairly easy to repair and modify, and relatively quick and cheap to build.

frezik ,

The 2x4s that have been sized this way do meet structural code. It was found that a full 2x4 is way over spec’d for what they were used for, so why bother wasting extra parts of the tree?

Pretty much everything built with dimensional lumber in the last century has been done with undersized 2x4s, and it’s fine. The name stuck for historical reasons. Companies that build houses and order this stuff by the pallet all know what the real size is, and so do building inspectors.

derf82 ,

These are even smaller than that. A standard 2x4 is 1.5x3.5.

GreyEyedGhost ,

Rough 2x4s were 2" x 4". Then we started finishing them for better consistency, taking about 0.5" from each dimension. Later we started using saws with narrower kerfs to have less loss due to saw blade width, better cutting and planing systems so the rough size could be smaller and still have the same finished size, then they lowered finished size some more.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Pretty much everything built with dimensional lumber in the last century has been done with undersized 2x4s, and it’s fine.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/9bca031c-58a9-492f-af12-72f95fc64623.jpeg

It’s fine, folks. Nothing to see here.

frezik ,

What part of this has to do with dimensional lumber?

Alto ,
@Alto@kbin.social avatar

It being ugly has absolutely fuckall to do with the structural integrity

some_guy ,

Thanks for the explainer.

FiniteBanjo ,

It’s probably 2x2PT or something. There are standards for board widths.

bluewing ,

You simply change the expected specs…

vk6flab ,
@vk6flab@lemmy.radio avatar

Looks oversized to me, that’s 3.25 cm x 3.25 cm, looks like they could take it down by 40% and still call it a 2x2 😇

prettybunnys ,

I appreciate you covering your open toes, safety socks so you’re compliant.

Blackout OP ,
@Blackout@kbin.run avatar

This was pre-job time :) Testing a 3d printed joint with it when I noticed the wood was very undersized.

insufferableninja ,

TBH that looks like a furring strip, not dimensional lumber

Blackout OP ,
@Blackout@kbin.run avatar

It's possible they stocked the wrong thing, but it was rung up as Pressure-Treated so maybe they applied the wrong barcode?

higgsboson ,

That green tint means it is pressure treated. Just take it back (this time bring a tape measure.)

originalfrozenbanana ,

And clip it to the belt loop of your khaki cargo shorts like the rest of us weekend warrior dads 😂

XeroxCool ,

I usually bring my 9ft magnetic tape from my car’s ceiling and my 4" brass fractional caliper from the glove box into the store but always end up prowling the lumber section for the loose tape measures. Wouldn’t want to look like I’m stealing, right?

Peppycito ,

He probably bought “five quarters”

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