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asg101 , in Bread And Circuses

The thing about unsustainable systems is… they are unsustainable.

squid_slime , in agile is far left too. I will die on this hill

All this “communism is fascism” bullshit is as toxic as “if you vote for 3rd party your voting for trump”.

Fucking liberals.

yyyesss ,

*you’re

squid_slime ,

Its in quotations

DAMunzy ,

I got it. I guess they need you to insert [sic]. 🙄

Pilferjinx ,

Isn’t “communism” essentially authorianism? I’d love to see true communism in action but humans tend to be too flawed to give up all that power.

lorty ,
@lorty@lemmy.ml avatar

Authoritarianism is an empty label since it’s used against one’s opposing ideologies. Rarely if ever is the inherent authoritarianism of the current or any system of government acknowledged.

Pilferjinx ,

Understandable. But how does a government choose the label, in this case, communism, when the it’s governed by a very small group of individuals and in most cases against the will of the people?

squid_slime , (edited )

The governing body is the vanguard which is to downsize overtime and the country is to eventually shift to a worker lead government. It would be anarchy to deploy communism without first building the systems to allow for a workers lead government, especially off of the back from a greed riddled society and like wise surrounded by greed riddled capitalist countries.

I should also so that mention communism isnt often implemented against the will of the people, Russia pre communism was an awful place, low literary, low life expectancy and the working class/ peasantry were exploited by the west and ruling class. They had a long bloody civil war and held strong. Then after which things slowly improved under communism.

Pilferjinx ,

I’m definitely not an expert on this. But let’s take foss as an example. I find it to be an amazing bottom up community that contributes to itself freely. I can’t imagine how a top down system would flourish if a small group of people decided what was good for the foss community and deleted what they thought wasn’t. Is there is a distinction? Is there different versions of communism I should check out?

Shyfer ,

There’s hypothetically a bunch of different version of communism for everyone. The thing is, Marx described the problems with capitalism, and some vague sense of what socialism could be, some guidelines of what it should aim for, then kind of left the details up to each individual society to get there how they think is best based on their individual material conditions. He gave his own guesses, but didn’t think he could predict that part fully, it would be up to the people of the future to figure it out and build on. A third world country, rural serf based near fuedal society, like Russia, would have completely different needs from some post-industrial country, like if Germany turned communist, for example. If the world’s sole superpower, the US, turned communist, it would probably be a lot different than communist countries that had to transition under siege neighboring imperialism, like Cuba, North Korea, or Vietnam.

This is just to answer your last question. Don’t think this really addresses your other questions, but just wanted to explain that part, as I’ve had it explained to me before. But I generally agree with you. There should still be some form of democracy but it might look different than what we are used to here in the US or liberal west.

squid_slime , (edited )

Its called worker lead, classless society.

foss has a legally binding licence to support itself, this licence can be seen as a vanguard as it steers and protects the software, without the licence people would be sure to steal and monetise others works. But let’s say Foss became the defacto, everyone releases free fully open and no anti feature software, we could loss the vanguard and naturally a classless system would be present.

Pilferjinx ,

Could a non-human vanguard be possible for a broader scope of governance? I don’t trust humanity all that much when it come to dictation.

squid_slime ,

AI could do it but this is fantasy, current ai would have everyone eating glue pizza lol.

Pilferjinx ,

This should be worked on seriously. Our future looks bleak and we need to do something about it.

zbyte64 ,

Sorry, but I don’t trust humanity. How do I know this isn’t just some ploy to further enslave workers?

bloodfart ,

It already was, compare project cybersyn to the Walmarts and amazons we have now.

Software is not a person and will serve the people in control of it.

zbyte64 ,

No, that is just another class of ownership. Whoever maintains the AI would be the ruling class. Or if we’re talking AGI, there’s little reason humanity should trust what humans build over what humans do.

zbyte64 ,

Oh, in that case it’s a Democratic Republic of the Free People. The label the government chooses for itself might not be accurate according to political science.

squid_slime , (edited )

Communism can be flawed and a flaw it is, but let’s not forget that capitalism imposing indignity is capitalism working perfectly and is not a flaw. We reward greed.

So with this communism if used correctly can lead to prosperity.

I would like to point you towards reading about the transitional period, its an important part of communism and also reading about internationalism, essentially its very hard to move from a greedy society to communism and equally its hard to be a communist country while surrounded by greedy countries.

intensely_human ,

Airlines can treat people like shit because it’s not a free market. If anyone who wanted could start up their own airline, they’d be a lot more consumer-friendly by necessity.

intensely_human ,

According to Marx communism is a scenario of complete freedom.

It’s the socialist state that is authoritarian.

I think Marx’s idea is to actively burn away the old and then the new grow spontaneously. I think he’s wrong, since the old is a result of spontaneous growth already, but that’s the theory at least.

SuddenDownpour ,

“Communism” is always going to be authoritarian if by “communism” you mean a government that attempts to control the whole of society. If by “communism” you mean a society where private property (not personal property) is democratically managed, that has nothing to do with authoritarism. Nor with the Soviet Union, or China, for that matter.

intensely_human ,

Communism is a free market scenario, just in gift economy form.

It’s the centrally-planned socialist intermediary system that has produces the hell on earth we associate with fascism in the past.

SuddenDownpour ,

The vast majority of criticism towards .ml and others come from them being tankies, not communists. I’m a communist, by which I mean I want society to overcome social classes and hierarchies, and therefore, defending authoritarian states with hierarchies where the people on top enjoy political and economic privilege is contrary to communism.

sevenapples ,

So you’re a communist that denounces every communist project atop an ivory tower, instead of understanding the realities of actually building a socialist society (no magical button that will make us overcome hierarchies overnight, I’m afraid). Sounds like you’re just larping about being a communist

DriftinGrifter ,

i agree but voting 3rd party is the same as nit voting because you only have 2 realistic options which makes it more likely for trump to become president than if you voted for biden (also fuck tankies)

squid_slime ,

Continuing as usual is defeat. The more votes for 3rd party the more broken the system will look, with this a campaign for real change could take place. Instead you want to bury your head in the sand.

barsquid ,

The real change that will take place is Project 2025. They are not the ones with their head in the sand.

0x2d , in US grade school textbooks

my teacher last year was like this

DNOS , in be honest

It ☝️

SurfinBird , in I'm so tired of partying. So very tired.

I always knew this day would come. I have become Slurms Mckenzie.

archomrade , in US grade school textbooks

Reminds me of this scene in the big short:

Rabbi Scene

MindTraveller ,

I thought Jews were supposed to think critically about religion. After all, that’s why Yahweh keeps the devil around, to question them.

ssm , (edited ) in STOP CENSORORING ME TANKIES
@ssm@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Blocked lemmy.world after this nonsense, I was already sick of how closely that instance mirrored reddit; including the witch hunting and moderation double-standards (banning piracy and allowing floods of corporate capitalist news propaganda spam is fine, but deleting misinformation and whitewashing of US history is moderator overreach). Had a few communities there I liked, but I can live without them.

Alaskaball OP ,
@Alaskaball@hexbear.net avatar

What kind of communities?

ssm ,
@ssm@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

some tiny hyper-specific communities like c/DeepRockGalactic, as well as c/AssholeDesign (there’s a c/AssholeDesign on .ml, but it’s as dead as a doorknob); also enjoyed c/shitposting from time to time

Alaskaball OP ,
@Alaskaball@hexbear.net avatar

yeah those are pretty niche. though we do have a sort of shitposting called ‘badposting’ but that unto itself is niche as well

Facebones ,

That’s really the kicker for me with those people. The louder they shriek about being moderated for outright dickish behavior, the faster they’d ban you on their own turf for politely sharing a source that counters their narrative.

I’ve agreed with you basically since the beginning of my lemmy experience about .world. I think that’s just where most Reddit refugees landed (including myself initially) so that’s why they have such a high concentration of people wanting this Reddit-adjacent neolib singular authority and want so strongly to defederate from anything remotely left of Biden -

Or even go as far as the post I assume OP is based off of and screech about free speech by arguing how the MLs who BUILT LEMMY should abandon their .ML domain to make the instance less ML. Cause that’s how free speech works. >.>

Sidhean , in I feel so old

Wow, I can’t believe doom is so young! It’s been a cultural juggernaut my entire life, so it’s weird to think of Doom as “releasing.”

Thcdenton , in I'm so tired of partying. So very tired.

Wholesome

Allonzee , (edited ) in US grade school textbooks

Remember, small impressionable children, oligarchy and rigged market capitalism is the only way, everything else is evil and anti-freedom, and remember to compete against your fellow Americans to try to get more than them!

For our next lesson, critical thinking and reasoning! Just kidding, we don’t do that here. It doesn’t help to make you better laborers.

And now onto history, open your textbooks to page 33:

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/bfaf13f4-b6cc-4c5b-819c-95995b9ac519.jpeg

pigup ,

Damn that picture is pissing me off lol

Allonzee ,

Imagine what Native Americans must think of such depictions.

MindTraveller ,

I think it pisses them off too

blanketswithsmallpox ,

For First Thanksgiving?

Most of that is believed to have happened or is so cloaked in mythos that any version is likely to be true if you’re talking the American version.

Source, native. The women being there is the thing that’s least likely to be true.

Nearly all of what historians have learned about one of the first Thanksgiving comes from a single eyewitness report: a letter written in December 1621 by Edward Winslow, one of the 100 or so people who sailed from England aboard the Mayflower in 1620 and founded Plymouth Colony in Massachusetts. William Bradford, Plymouth’s governor in 1621, wrote briefly of the event in Of Plymouth Plantation, his history of the colony, but that was more than 20 years after the feast itself.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving

history.com/…/first-thanksgiving-colonists-native…

JasonDJ ,

Well if they wanted to tell their side of the story, they should’ve won.

Not our fault they didn’t invent guns or a bunch of diseases by domesticating livestock in population centers!

CarbonScored , (edited ) in Oh tell me again how it loads faster and takes up less resources
@CarbonScored@hexbear.net avatar

Always gonna note too that Google Chrome (and chromium + derivatives to a lesser extent) kneecaps adblock plugins so that up to 50% fewer ad domains are blocked, blocklists are out of date, many in-page ads can’t be caught, it’s slower, and invisible trackers can bypass it.

EherVielleicht , in I'm so tired of partying. So very tired.
@EherVielleicht@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Slurms Mckenzie, the legend.

manucode , in US grade school textbooks
@manucode@infosec.pub avatar

I’m interested in how Americans pronouncebourgeois.

TheLepidopterists ,
@TheLepidopterists@hexbear.net avatar

Different ways, I usually say boo-jwah, bur-jwah is also one I’ve heard though.

Wizard_Pope ,
@Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world avatar

Burgers

MehBlah ,

Boogers please. We ain’t no uppity frogs.

disguy_ovahea ,

I pronounce it bore-zhwah. Is that wrong?

sensiblepuffin ,
@sensiblepuffin@lemmy.world avatar

Feel like that’s as correct as we can get, as Americans.

olosta ,

French pronounce the “ou” as is “tour”. But you do you.

BarrelAgedBoredom ,

Tour as in tu- er or tore? I’ve heard it pronounced both ways here in the states

sensiblepuffin ,
@sensiblepuffin@lemmy.world avatar

Whoa what? I’ve never heard anyone pronounce tour as tu-er. At that point you might as well slap an umlaut on that bad boy

sensiblepuffin ,
@sensiblepuffin@lemmy.world avatar

Bore rhymes with tour… no?

agamemnonymous ,
@agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works avatar

Bore rhymes with tore. Tour is closer to sewer

sensiblepuffin ,
@sensiblepuffin@lemmy.world avatar

I’ve never heard anyone pronounce “tour” as rhymes with “sewer” in English. Perhaps in other languages?

static09 ,

Maybe you’re pronouncing sewer in thinking of a person who sews instead of sewer as in waste drainage.

sensiblepuffin ,
@sensiblepuffin@lemmy.world avatar

Drainage system = soo-er Person who sews = soh-er Exploring a place, with or without a guide = tohr

That’s typically how I hear those pronounced. Idk, I get the sense that some think I’m trying to correct the OP when I’m just trying to figure out how the hell something is pronounced.

agamemnonymous ,
@agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works avatar

Closer to sewer, or “doer” or “fewer”. Compress it to one syllable. Think “ooh” not “ohh”.

sensiblepuffin ,
@sensiblepuffin@lemmy.world avatar

I’m not… correcting you, I’m just explaining that I never hear anyone pronouncing tour such that it rhymes with either pronunciation of sewer.

agamemnonymous ,
@agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works avatar

You said you’d never heard it that way, I just wanted to clarify that I communicated the right pronunciation since “sewer” is a bit more drawn out than I meant to imply. All good

sensiblepuffin ,
@sensiblepuffin@lemmy.world avatar

Sorry, I was a little defensive because some others seemed to think I was arguing with you. Your explanation made sense, though.

MutilationWave ,

Nah don’t get it wrong I get shit because I say tour instead of tore. Poem instead of pOh-ehm. Theatre instead of thee-ate-err

sparkle , (edited )

In most American dialects and some British dialects, “bore” and “tour” rhyme (called the “pour-poor merger”). But in some dialects it may rhyme with “sewer”/“two-er” or have the same sound as in “blue” or even as in “were”.

sensiblepuffin ,
@sensiblepuffin@lemmy.world avatar

Aha. See, that explains the disconnect. Thank you.

gravitas_deficiency , (edited )

A more aggressively American pronunciation would be bore-ge-oh-is.

JovialSodium ,

I and anyone I’ve heard say the word says it the same as the English pronunciation in this random video I found searching for how to pronounce it. For whatever that small sample size is worth.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=3pMOHP3Uu54

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Borzshwah

Got_Bent ,

I personally pronounce it fahrenheit

sangriaferret ,

“job creators”

RagingRobot ,

I’m actually something of a job creator myself. Last week at the grocery store I didn’t return my cart to the coral. They had to pay someone to go out and bring it in!

Jakeroxs ,

Boo shwa zee

baggins ,

deleted_by_author

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  • Jakeroxs ,

    Lol Idk I’m not a linguist, me probably from hearing it pronounced that way in media.

    “DOWN WITH THE BOURGEOISIE!”

    Seems like it comes from the French pronunciation? Idk man

    disguy_ovahea ,

    Those are two different words. Bourgeois is an adjective describing the materialist characteristic of the middle class. The bourgeoisie is the materialistic middle class itself.

    Jakeroxs , (edited )

    Ah I misread then lol

    Boosh-E is probably more accurate then?

    Or booshjie lol

    GreyEyedGhost ,

    “Fires two random arrows, both to the linguists heart. Imagine if he tried!”

    MutilationWave ,

    For fucks sake we say boozhwah or boojee.

    Jakeroxs ,

    Lmfao

    MutilationWave ,

    My man

    loudWaterEnjoyer ,

    We just say bourgeois

    blandfordforever ,

    Bourxjeauxaseaux

    Zoboomafoo ,

    as long as the French get offended by the pronunciation, then it’s pronounced correctly in American

    whotookkarl ,
    @whotookkarl@lemmy.world avatar

    ‘Boojz wah’, or if I’m feeling silly bourguignon. But I’d probably be more likely to use ‘middle class’ instead of the French.

    MovingThrowaway ,

    I’ve heard it with varying degrees of the R sound. There’s a common shorthand “bougie” (BOO-zhee) that people often hear before learning the original term, so they’ll maintain the pronunciation into BOO-zhwa.

    Sometimes the R is slightly swallowed so it sounds more like BOH-zhwa, maybe very light throat vocalization. Or people skip over it and it’s buh-ZHWA. Some commit fully for BOR-zhwa.

    Universally seems to maintain (my non-native understanding of) the French “oi” and silent S.

    I have yet to hear anyone pronounce it correctly: bor-gee-oice.

    Wilzax ,

    Beurj-wah

    Glitch , in Bread And Circuses

    Kinda like… Right before the fall of the Roman empire?

    yogthos OP ,
    @yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

    history of often repeats as a farce

    mub , in I feel so old

    Put words together into sentences that make me sound like a grown-up.

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