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moon ,

the thesis was on why you should move to Linux

Timecircleline ,

How did it go?!

InternetCitizen2 OP ,

I didn’t defend, but it went well

Timecircleline ,

Well congratulations to the newly minted Dr!

josephsh5 ,

“FUCK MICROSOFT!”

Moshpirit ,
@Moshpirit@lemmy.world avatar

Oh, so you know OP’s thesis name too!

josephsh5 ,

No, I was referencing a scene from the show “Space Force” where the exact same thing occurs.

PineRune ,

Every day, my work computers force a shutdown-update, take 20 minites, fail the update, recover from the failed update, and then force a 24-hour timer to do it again that I can’t turn off. IT doesn’t care.

lickmygiggle ,

If it’s happening every 24 hours it sounds like they’re the ones that set the policy.

Ibuthyr ,

I don’t get it. I never had my PC randomly updating itself without my consent. I simply keep my OS updated like everyone should. I do this by installing the update once I get notified (I simply update when I shut the thing down). Why is everyone so weird about this? Or is this a home edition problem? Don’t use home edition.

calcopiritus ,

I use home edition and never had this problem. EU windows is much better though, maybe this is a USA windows thing.

uis ,

Right. It’s easy to forget that M$ has two versions of шindows

TachyonTele ,

Nah, you can delay an update for a long time. Idk what OP is doing to cause this.

chiliedogg ,

I’ve had way too many Windows updates fuck my shit up, so I wait as long as possible to update so they have a chance to fix what they broke by the time it gets rolled out to my machine.

Ibuthyr ,

I’ve never really had any major fuck ups with windows updates. This is something I also don’t get. I’m not an MS advocate or anything, I completely support people who use Linux because screw evil giant corporations. But most arguments here are completely emotionally driven.

K4mpfie ,

Tbf I do this too but sometimes Windows will shut down after an update and next time I start it it will “configure my PC”, restart once more and then show me the login screen. Doesn’t even take 5 tho. The worst thing however is when I start my laptop and login, just for Windows to decide it’s updating rn. However this is usually happening at work so I suspect that the update server on the domain pushes an urgent security update that can only happen once a user logged in. Still super annoying but doesn’t take more than 5 minutes.

Ibuthyr ,

Ok, this I can relate to. I often sat down at my desk the next morning just to see that the PC is running. Electricity is kinda expensive where I’m from, so this pisses me off.

woelkchen ,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

No, not any longer. In Windows 11 “update and shutdown” includes a reboot in-between and then shuts off. The only way you get this these days is to “update and reboot” and manually shutting off the computer during BIOS initialization.

K4mpfie ,

Yeah I’m still on Windows 10

EvilEyedPanda ,

Today’s thesis is an improv on why windows sucks.

HStone32 ,

The longer I use Linux, the harder it becomes to see where windows users are coming from. Its gotten to the point where seeing people use windows in public feels incomprehensible to me, like watching people go to work on a pogo stick instead of a car.

Psythik , (edited )

Three words: High Dynamic Range.

HDR is a tacked on feature in KDE that barely works. In Windows 11, it’s a set and forget thing. SDR gets mapped to HDR space, so you don’t have to constantly toggle it on and off when switching between content, like you have to do in other OSes. You can even upgrade SDR videos and games to true HDR, even if they don’t have native support. It legit makes content look more realistic.

And if you have a newer GPU, there’s also AI upscaling, which is great for watching HD and SD content on a 4K display. Pretty sure you can’t do that* at all in Linux, at least not in real-time.

But if you have an SDR monitor and/or an older GPU, none of this matters to you. Which in that case, there’s no reason for you to use Windows ever. But if your gear is newer, Linux is too outdated for you.

I’ll check back in 5 years. Maybe 2029 will finally be the year I ditch Microsoft products for good.

absentbird ,
@absentbird@lemm.ee avatar

It’s expected for HDR to mature on Linux later this year. I’ll send you an update in December.

woelkchen ,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

It’s expected for HDR to mature on Linux later this year.

HDR works on Steam Deck right now. It may take a while until it trickles down to distributions other than SteamOS and not every compositor may support it equally but in general support is there.

uis ,

until it trickles down to distributions

Ancap spotted. Most distros don’t use Gamescope. Although if HDR support is in KWin, then you can just go and install KDE on rolling release distro.

woelkchen , (edited )
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

Most distros don’t use Gamescope.

Well, that’s the problem of the person making a general statement about all of Linux and not going into specifics.

BlushedPotatoPlayers ,

These are nice, but on the other hand there’s the case where you have a limited time slot somewhere and windows randomly decides that it’s time to update, pop up a window to upload your data to “the cloud”, reboot, and bang, you’re f*cked.

the_doktor ,

HDR is just a scam. It’s essentially automated brightness and contrast controls that is terribly done. I’ve seen HDR on brand new displays running HDR-capable everything and it just looks like someone can’t figure out how to set their monitor up correctly. It’s a buzzword created for crap technology that makes people want to spend more on essentially the same trash.

And as for scaling, look up FSR.

Windows is 100% obsolete and anyone who disagrees is just looking for excuses.

uis ,

It’s essentially automated brightness and contrast controls that is terribly done

Brightness? True. Contrast controls? It seems you are confusing software HDR, which compresses HDR to SDR, and hardware HDR.

Hardware HDR is fancy word to say burning you eyes harder.

When you represent image as 3d vector field of brightnesses, it IS brightness control terribly done, but our eyes don’t care.

the_doktor ,

The point is it’s just poorly done automated adjustment of what should be done manually on your monitor, and it’s a laughable overpriced scam meant to take money out of the pockets of people who fall for tech buzzwords.

woelkchen ,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

Three words: High Dynamic Range.

Works fine on Steam Deck. (The comment you’re replied to is about Linux, not a specific DE, so your experience with a specific DE doesn’t really count as counter argument about Linux in general.)

And if you have a newer GPU, there’s also AI upscaling, which is great for watching HD and SD content on a 4K display. Pretty sure you can’t do they at all in Linux, at least not in real-time.

That is wrong.

uis ,

You can even upgrade SDR videos and games to true HDR, even if they don’t have native support. It legit makes content look more realistic.

You are just applying filters. They look good, but they are incorrect.

onlinepersona ,

I am utterly perplexed by the HDR talk, honestly. Why does it even matter? I’ve been consuming media on Linux for more than a decade and it looks perfect to me.

When people talk about making it look even better, I literally can’t imagine what they’re talking about. I mean, when people had black n white TV, they could imagine color. When I had a CRT and 3D games, it was easy to imagine better quality, but going from 1080p to 4k already does nothing. HDR just seems like marketing bullshit that people wouldn’t be able to discern, unless flicking between normal and HDR or having them side by side.

Anti Commercial-AI license

archchan ,

I’ve gone off the FOSS deep end so it doesn’t stop when I see Windows used in the wild.

The longer I’m here, the more I recoil at the sight of people using products from Google so casually and thoughtlessly.

I’ll feel visceral disgust when I see the soulless, dystopian corporate logos of Xitter, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, etc that wormed their way into a universal presence on social footers of websites or promotional emails or search engines… and everyone’s locked down devices, sucking up troves of data to map who you are, were, and will be. Even McFuckingDonalds has a clause in a policy saying they’ll measure your intelligence.

The greater the intersect between emotions felt while enjoying a cautionary fictional cyberpunk tale and those felt while experiencing reality… well, anyway you get the idea.

Tldr I need a hug from a penguin or cocaine from a bear or something holy shit

You, reader, go. Hug a penguin. Spread love to the world. Believe in the change you want to see. Be good to each other. And don’t let anyone or anything take who you are, were, or can be away from you, be it a corp, a government, or a bad day.

Have a good day

FatCat ,
@FatCat@lemmy.world avatar

These comments are copy pasta perfection. Best part they are unironic 🤣😍

archchan ,

Hahaha thanks. I like being extra and colorful like this. It’s a good release in more ways than one

bitwaba ,

I feel the same way, but I feel it with lots of other topics in my life as well.

I daily drive Linux for both home and work. Windows is absolutely shit, yes, but when you’re using Linux as your primary system, the only interaction you have with Windows is through other people. And that interaction is only when people’s experience with Windows is noteworthy enough for them to mention anything about it. Its selection bias.

A similar thing happened with me when I visited home after having been gone for 2 years. I moved from the US to the UK over a decade ago. I’d go back every 6-12 months, but because of COVID it was over 2 years. It was during the vaccine rollouts too, and I was expecting this warzone anti mask/antivax everywhere. I saw a few people (like, over 3 weeks I saw less than a dozen) with signs protesting at intersections. And I saw one guy have an argument with his wife in the parking lot which she just eventually told him to stay in the the car if he wasn’t going to wear a mask while she went to the grocery store. Thats pretty much the opposite of what I expected based on the images I got for the previous 2 years through overseas media. You only get the lowlights.

BCat70 ,

Hell it looks ro me like they are driving a Flintstonemobile, where every time they stop using thier feet a boxing glove punches them in the face.

uis ,

like watching people go to work on a pogo stick instead of a car.

At least going to work on a pogo stick makes more sense in urban area. You can’t bring car into subway. Windows on the other hand…

Varven ,
@Varven@lemmy.world avatar

Use arch

russjr08 ,

Well, aside from this I hope it all went well OP!

growingentropy ,

That’s the least of your worries. Once it reboots, its proprietary spyware…errr…AI…will resume taking screenshots of everything you do.

Grumpydaddy ,

Cool ceiling tile

QuazarOmega ,

sponsored by Proxmox

istanbullu ,

this is why you use linux

olutukko ,

linux can have some pretty weird quirks though. (don’t get me wrong I’ve been dailydriving linux for several years and I’m not going to use windows unless I’m forced)

one time I was about to do presentation, I has multiple files and windows in order to present the whole program we had developed, some powerpoint, demo, and the source code.

then came my time to do the presentation and I plugged in the hdmi cable and my fucking account just logged out. dunno if the session crashed or something, but I had to quickly scramble everything back since all my apps were closed lol.

I do have older quadro nvidia though

JackbyDev ,

HDMI? Don’t you know HDCP is proprietary? Best to just log out. Stallman was right and all!

dust_accelerator ,

Having been in a similar situation, I now bash script things like that, so it’s ./present_dat_shit.sh and you’re up and ready, even if things bug out. If it’s a really important presentation, you can also add a live boot SSD backup if you’re serious about redundancy.

uis ,

Live boot SSD backup that boots right into presentation.

uis ,

Important question: is mesa? If not, then fuck Nvidia. If yes, then fuck Nvidia regardless, but karlherbst and other nouveau devs would like to get crashlogs if there was crash.

Was it reproduced later? What enviroment?

olutukko ,

nah propiertary, sometimes happens randomly and gnome

uis ,

Ah. When I was using proprietary, I had problems too.

jorp ,

had to recompile my audio drivers with headphone support just before thesis defense

yokonzo , (edited )

This looks like a public office space. You really gonna go argue with the building admin?

JackbyDev ,

“Hey boss, the display in the corner office automatically updated. Can we get IT to switch everything to Linux?”

yokonzo ,

“why would we do that? Our systems don’t work on that, our people aren’t trained on that, no, get back to work”

I think that would be a pretty accurate reply to a casual request for an entire infrastructure change

EvolvedTurtle ,

“there is a bomb strapped to my chest, if you don’t install Linux on every computer in here I will explode taking you with me”

I wouldn’t recommend this method but It might work out

pkmkdz ,

Next day headlines:
“Linux user blows up an office. Is Linux a cult?”

EvolvedTurtle ,

I mean Is it wrong tho

Gestrid ,

The IT admin: youtu.be/5l6l9T2w1DQ

the_doktor ,

our systems

Guaranteed all of your backend systems are running Linux. If not, holy hell why.

our people aren’t trained on that

Oh no, pointy-clicky on things on a desktop is so hard to train for people who have used an OS where you… um… pointy-clicky on things on a desktop. Whatever shall we do.

Excuses. All I hear from people who want to keep obsolete, trash, laughable, insecure Windows.

yokonzo ,

Complain all you want, not a single manager out there is going to shut down any part of the active systems in place and potentially lose business to upgrade to Linux. At that point, just bring your own laptop instead of moaning about it.

And I used to think the “just switch to linux” guys were a meme, bro you’re making me want to switch back to windows out of spite

the_doktor ,

Enjoy your BSOD and Microsoft stealing all your data, then.

yokonzo ,

It’s like talking to a little kid

EvolvedTurtle ,

Yes

sunshine ,

You don’t need admin to plug your computer into the AV do you? I assumed it was OP’s computer.

yokonzo ,

Depends on how it’s set up i guess, but if it’s your own PC that’s kind of on you id imagine

yokonzo ,

Sure, but are you really going to go find the building admin and argue with them to update all of their OS’ to something they probably don’t understand? Linux is primarily a power user platform, not a mainstream one.

CodingCarpenter ,

This is why you check your equipment before any important events

AeonFelis ,

What if Windows decided to update after you finished checking the equipment? I mean, they do use AI to determine the worst time for an update…

AnyOldName3 ,
@AnyOldName3@lemmy.world avatar

They update on two Tuesdays a month, and have done that at least since XP. Even with the most reboot-keen settings, the update doesn’t happen until the time of day you’re least likely to be using the machine based on when you typically do it. It tells you when that time will be and gives you several hours of notice with a popup with the option to delay. Depending on the variant of Windows you’re using, you have settings to delay a forced reboot for up to a week (Home), a month (Pro) or forever (Enterprise). Obviously, that’s not enough to make sure no one ever gets updates forced on them when they don’t want them, and it would be nice if there was a way to distinguish users who know what they’re doing from users who don’t so people who do could be given more power to control if and when they install updates, but it is enough to ensure that checking the equipment before you use it is enough, potentially two weeks in advance.

Gestrid ,

They update on two Tuesdays a month

Correction: It updates every second Tuesday of the month. (Not including any potential “Preview” updates which might get released. Those are all optional updates, though.)

TachyonTele ,

Yeah dude. Just get every computer at school and business to use Linux. Duh.

🙄

Holzkohlen ,

This is on you. You prepare your computer ahead of time. Do updates the night before, check if everything works. You also have an empty battery? Like I loathe windows as much as anyone, but this would never ever happen to me. I triple check it all, especially if it runs windows.

NaoPb ,

Forced updates are still terrible.

pyre ,

nah. at worst it’s the lesser of two evils. the alternative is keeping a crushing majority of the user base vulnerable forever because virtually no one likes to voluntarily update their os.

laurelraven ,

No, they’re terrible. Windows can and does know when a system is least in use and is supposed to handle this during those periods. Updates are important but this is an excessive and unnecessary way to fix the issue of people not performing their own updates.

pyre ,

… and it does handle this during those periods. unless you tell it not to. or set the non working hours wrong.

laurelraven ,

I’ve frequently seen Windows ignore that setting and force the restart while the system is actively being used

The mega corp neither needs or deserves your defense. They’ve fucked up the update system with Windows 10 and it’s not gotten any better since then.

Incandemon ,

Seconding this, I can’t think of a time that I’ve actually had windows respect my configured update window.

I’d also like to point out how annoying it is that manually hitting the update button doesn’t seem to do anything. If I hit the button I want to dedicate the full system resources to updating right now, not just keep doing what it was doing but add a skinny thing.

ArcaneSlime ,

Pfffft it’s so much easier to update when it doesn’t shut your shit down for 1hr and instead downloads 573MB of updates in a tiny window you can leave up while going about your business and can choose when to do it by typing “sudo dnf update -y” and your password into said tiny window.

Besides, you can tell linux to auto update if you want, and you’ll never notice it doing so in the background (well it’ll likely tell you depending on the distro but if it didn’t, you’d never notice as it is non-intrusive.)

pyre ,

the download does happen in the background. the installation is what requires shutting down. i only find out there’s any update when the shutdown button is marked and whenever I’m done i tell it to install the update and shutdown. it’s really not as bad as you guys desperately seem to want it to be.

ArcaneSlime ,

Oh my mistake, I didn’t mean to say the wrong part took 1hr+ and it was actually the other part, silly me. Meanwhile on linux there’s still no such annoyance. You do know we all used to use windows and got fed up with it’s bullshit and jumped ship right? You can stay a frog in boiling water all you want, those of us who jumped out of the pot can see the burner.

pyre ,

whatever floats your boat. keep getting things wrong so you can feel better about jumping ship i guess?

ArcaneSlime ,

Lmao you really think “nuh uh the long annoying part isn’t the download it’s the install” is better than “well linux has neither issue” don’t you? Bless your heart.

pyre ,

… no? i guess you’re having a different conversation in your head than the one your eyes should be reading.

ArcaneSlime ,

Oh I forgot to mention “nuh uh windows doesn’t do that thing it definitely does, you and everyone else who ever experienced it are just crazy.”

pyre ,

you are sounding more crazy with every comment, that part is accurate.

ArcaneSlime ,

Lol sure buddy, whatever helps you cope. Why don’t you go infect yourself with some ransomware hmm?

pyre ,

too bad Linux doesn’t protect mental health

ArcaneSlime ,

That’s what trolling you is for.

pyre ,

oh boy that’s weak.

ArcaneSlime ,

No u. Sorry to disappoint, I can’t dedicate any more time than passing quips to this waste of a conversation though, unfortunately I do have a life outside of lemmy.

pyre ,

check the word counts in this thread

ArcaneSlime ,

No u lol

pyre ,

i love that you eventually devolved into a bot

ArcaneSlime ,

Beep boop yo momma

pyre ,

good bot

ArcaneSlime ,

Told you don’t have time for bullshit, out touching grass

pyre ,

it’s clear you’ve never really been out

ArcaneSlime ,

Was last night, and it wasn’t even with your mom, surprisingly enough. Now shitting at work, why don’t you get yourself a life and stop with the permanently online schtick?

pyre ,

you’re trying so hard it’s embarrassing

ArcaneSlime ,

No u

pyre ,

good bot

ArcaneSlime ,

No u

pyre ,

bad bot

ArcaneSlime ,

No u

pyre ,

k bb

laurelraven ,

That looks like a conference room PC, I would doubt OP even has any control over that and possibly didn’t even have access to the room until right before

It isn’t their computer.

It’s likely on a campus domain managed by campus IT and should be configured with a sane update policy that automatically does this overnight when the systems aren’t being used.

littletranspunk ,

I’d rather work with my PC than around my PC.

It’s why I much prefer Linux

Pulptastic ,

This is why I went to Mac. I can set it to notify rather than auto update and it actually does that. So many times my work windows laptop has started an update as I am shutting it down for the night, delaying my departure.

Katana314 ,

Much as I always feel Microsoft has made some horrible missteps around automatic updates…I also think many many users are vocally and unabashedly following horrible update policies.

The biggest one is “Fuck you, Microsoft, I don’t ever want to update.” A simple truth about Windows is that it is currently the most popular operating system in the world. If that OS was Unix-based, the resulting truth would still be true: The most popular OS is going to be the most common target for vulnerabilities, hacks, malware, and exploits. Far more than an antivirus, keeping that computer up to date is the most important step for keeping it secure.

This is true not just of computers used to manage your bank account and nuclear launch codes, but of the swarm of “convenience” computers sitting inside a campus network that could spread a virus to everything on the Wi-Fi.

So, looking at this image, it’s a shame on Microsoft moment if this update came from nowhere, or they once again blatantly ignored the configured update time. It’s a shame on the campus moment if someone was repeatedly closing the “Time to update” popup.

areyouevenreal ,

Other systems like ChromeOS and Silverblue do atomic updates in the background and then switch on next restart. No waiting at screens like this. Heck even the conventional Linux update system, while far from foolproof, doesn’t require waiting like this.

gmtom ,
  1. So does windows for the most part
  2. Do you know how often users actually restart their machines without being forced?
areyouevenreal ,

Fairly often if it wasn’t for the whole fast startup thing, which isn’t present in Linux land. I would say at least every couple of weeks, which is good enough for updates.

wer2 ,

Perhaps the solution is to figure out how to update without restarting. It is a hard problem, but a forced restart is the same as a crash from a user perspective.

megopie ,

Imagine if they replaced the crash screen with a fake automatic update.

IMongoose ,

That’s some oblivion on xbox shit right there. Hide a restart with a loading screen.

dan ,
@dan@upvote.au avatar

Years ago there was a screensaver that showed a fake “upgrading to Vista, please wait” screen. Just wait for someone to leave their computer unattended, download and set it as the screensaver, and wait for their reaction when they’re back :)

bleistift2 ,

Do you know how often users actually restart their machines without being forced?

If Windows would actually shut the fuck down when asked to do so, this wouldn’t be a problem.

IMongoose ,

I complained enough at my work about this that we shut off fast boot domain wide. I haven’t had to have a “I know that you just turned your computer on but I need you to restart it. No, not shutdown and turn on, restart. Yes, they are different things.” conversation in a couple years. Funnily enough I haven’t seen anyone complain about the significantly longer start up times. I guess people just expect that from windows lol.

dan ,
@dan@upvote.au avatar

I think people just don’t care about startup times. They do it maybe once per day (if they don’t sleep and resume), and they probably get a coffee or something while it’s starting up.

Inktvip ,

Walk in, press on button, hang up jacket and get stuff out of bag, type in password, grab coffee.

That’s a pretty common morning pattern I see.

areyouevenreal ,

No Windows doesn’t do atomic updates in the background, that’s why there is the whole installing updates screen on reboot or shutdown.

gmtom ,

Yes it does? As far as I’m aware even Linux can’t apply updates to an active system.

areyouevenreal ,

You vastly misunderstand both what I am talking about, and how updates work on both Windows and Linux.

You don’t press shut down and then get a blue updating screen that stops you from doing anything on Linux. Go and update a Linux system and you will see what I am talking about. You run it just like a normal command or program.

Also yes they update the files on the drive while the system is running.

kuberoot ,

In addition to what was said by somebody else about atomic updates, even a simple update via package manager on a regular distro will do all the work up front, and not take extra time on next boot. Before you reboot, most things will continue working fine - and most of the remaining things that might not can be worked around.

phoneymouse ,

The issue is some updates don’t contain just security fixes, but rather privacy invading features and advertising that make the OS shittier.

Katana314 ,

Oh, no argument from me on that. And it’s horrible that Microsoft is starting to make people choose between having a secure system and avoiding their adware bullshit.

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