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So I installed Arch Linux... Is this it?

I’m a little bit underwhelmed, I thought that based off the fact so many people seem to make using this distro their personality I expected… well, more I guess?

Once the basic stuff is set-up, like wifi, a few basic packages, a desktop environment/window manager, and a bit of desktop environment and terminal customisation, then that’s it. Nothing special, just a Linux distribution with less default programs and occasionally having to look up how to install a hardware driver or something if you need to use bluetooth for the first time or something like that.

Am I missing something? How can I make using Arch Linux my personality when once it’s set up it’s just like any other computer?

What exactly is it that people obsess over? The desktop environment and terminal customisation? Setting up NetworkManager with nmcli? Using Vim to edit a .conf file?

Quill7513 ,

Welcome to realizing the Memes are all bullshit and its just a solid distro that’s worth using for the simpleness. Just go use your computer like the average user is and roll with it

vort3 ,
@vort3@lemmy.ml avatar

Yep, all this «how do I learn linux» stuff is weird. You don’t learn your OS, you use it. Did you need to «learn» Windows? You just launch it and click your browser / file manager / media player and browse, manage files and watch or listen to your media files.

You can just use your PC as you would regularly use your PC and find solutions once you face some issues. Yes, Linux issues are different from Windows issues.

SynopsisTantilize ,

You got downvoted but as a Systems Engineer when I get home from work, I want my OS to get out of my way. All these other people are crazy.

knova ,
@knova@infosec.pub avatar

This x 1000. I’ve had a buddy razz me over using plain, simple Debian because it’s not bleeding edge and the packages are out of date in some cases. bro I don’t care I just want to play some games and occasionally use LibreOffice for some stuff.

SynopsisTantilize ,

Yep. If I could have a true steamOS that had no desktop mode that would be 60% of my home life. I have an 1135g7 32gb ram laptop for Mint.

prime_number_314159 ,

Modern operating systems have made it take very little knowledge to connect to WiFi and browse the internet. If you want to use your computer for more than that, it can still take a longer learning process. I download 3D models for printing, and wanted an image for each model so I could find things more easily. In Linux, I can make such images with only about a hundred characters in the terminal. In Windows, I would either need to learn powershell, or make an image from each file by hand.

The way I understand “learning Linux” these days is reimagining what a computer can do for you to include the rich powers of open source software, so that when you have a problem that computers are very good at, you recognize that there’s an obvious solution on Linux that Windows doesn’t have.

Vashtea ,

I get your point, but for your specific example windows powertools gave my .stl files thumbnails if that is what you are referring to.

acockworkorange ,

You joke, but I was there, 3000 years ago… and DOS, Windows and Lotus 1-2-3 courses sold like hot cakes. Yeah, people had to learn Windows until a critical mass of people knew it so knowledge would self propagate.

dewritochan ,

the vhs tapes

h_ramus ,

Didn’t bother going through the hoops and installed EndeavourOS which is arch-based with some additional default applications.

For me, the best thing of Arch isn’t the distribution but the Arch wiki. An impressive piece of documentation.

SentientFishbowl OP ,

Arch wiki is superb, couldn’t have installed or configured Arch without it.

Ooops ,
@Ooops@feddit.org avatar

Which btw is the reason many people ended up with Archlinux… after the x-th time looking up some configuration issues on another distro and landing there.

Aurenkin ,

And the Arch User Repository is really handy when you need some more users.

lord_ryvan ,

That’s not a typo but a jest to the security implications, isn’t it?

Aurenkin ,

It was a joke on the dual meaning of “user repository” which I didn’t think about that deeply but that would have been smart.

seaQueue ,
@seaQueue@lemmy.world avatar

The Arch build system is just as impressive IMO. I’ve written Debian and redhat packages for at least two decades and Arch packaging is just so much easier to handle. The associated tooling for creating and managing build chroots is excellent as well.

jeena ,
@jeena@piefed.jeena.net avatar

That's the main reason my software is in the AUR but nowhere else. I tried to make a deb package and failed so many times so I just gave up.

prole ,

EndeavorOS is essentially Arch with a gui installer and a few optional pre-installed packages.

badbytes ,

Yes, wiki and community are top notch!

Auzy ,

You already announced you use Arch… So you’re doing good

atzanteol ,

Most distros are very similar - it’s mostly the same software just using a different package manager.

This is why “which distro should I use” is the most annoying question in this community.

lobut ,

It is definitely annoying but I think it’s understandable from people that are coming in from the outside.

ayaya ,
@ayaya@lemdro.id avatar

There is a pretty big difference in terms of usability between Arch and everything else because of the rolling release model and the AUR. Lots of things you would have to manually install from a git repo or track down a PPA for can be installed like a normal package.

atzanteol ,

So what you’re saying is that the package manager is very different?

My point stands - once things are installed your “Linux Experience” is pretty similar.

NOTE: I’ve used words like “most” and “similar” and “pretty”. Do not ignore these words. They have meaning.

folaht , (edited )

I would say it’s not very different, just one league above all the others that I’ve come across.

The three things that stand out in my opinion is how much their package manager can query packages, it’s rolling release and the number of packages they have in the AUR.

It makes Arch the most complete and up to date Linux distro,
with the exception of a user friendly forum,
that doesn’t look like the nazi soup kitchen from Seinfeld,
and an installer.

atzanteol ,

(BTW)

folaht , (edited )

I use Manjaro and little bit of Artix.
If I would recommend anything, it’s either EndeavourOS or Manjaro.
They’re Arch-based and friendlier.

I stopped using Arch because I got banned from their forum for changing my username.

Auli ,

What did you expect they are using the same programs.

atzanteol ,

Read the thread…

Deckweiss , (edited )

Now actually use it for a couple of years. Then you’ll see whats special about it.

For me personally, Ubuntu was breaking on every dist upgrade, the software was always out of date or not available in the repos. Been running arch for 5 years, same install, even transplanted it over to newer computers without issues. When some package is missing, I can throw together a PKGBUILD with chatgpt and put it on the AUR for others to use. It fucking rocks and is extremely sturdy while allowing me to do with it whatever I want.

But yeah, besides that, it’s just a linux. The individual things it does well are not even exclusive to arch. Ideally, you should not think about your OS at all and it should be out of your way, while you do something on it.

Maragato ,
@Maragato@lemmy.world avatar

Any major Linux distribution has a system for building packages, it’s not something special to Arch. In fact, Arch’s great advantage of the aur repository actually becomes a disadvantage by introducing instability and insecurity into your system when you add programs from that repository. It’s amazing that people criticize Windows security with .exe’s and then install packages from external repositories with the security of “trust in the repository”. How can you trust code with root access to the system just because it’s in the aur repository? That’s the main question I would ask Arch users.

SexualPolytope , (edited )
@SexualPolytope@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

It’s a choice. We know that it’s riskier to use stuff from AUR. Which is why it’s highly recommended to read the PKGBUILD before installing the package. The basic Arch install doesn’t even include an AUR helper. That said, AUR is typically very reliable for packages with a decent userbase. It’s mostly due to the community aspect. Bad actors are caught relatively easily as the PKGBUILD is available to look at.

nous ,

Any major Linux distribution has a system for building packages

I have built packages for all the major ones. Non arch packages are a pain to build and I never want to do it again. In contrast arch PKGBUILDs are quite simple and straight forward.

How can you trust code with root access to the system just because it’s in the aur repository?

Because you can view the source that builds the packages before building them. A quick check to not see any weird commands in the builds script and that it is going to an upstream repo is normally good enough. Though I bet most people work on the if others trust it then so do I mentality. Overall due to its relative popularity it is not a big target for threats when compared to things like NPM - which loads of people trust blindly as well and typically on vastly more important machines and servers.

cupboard ,

It's amazing that people criticize Windows security with .exe's and then install packages from external repositories with the security of "trust in the repository".

As with almost every case of these sorts of comparisons, these are likely separate groups of people holding separate groups of opinions.

I don't use Arch anymore, but when I did I found that the AUR was really useful to quickly install niche applications that would take ages to be approved on to an official repository. Often those would be made by the application developers themselves or members of the community. I would personally vet the packaging script myself, but I'm sure many wouldn't - and that's fine. As with most software, there's some trust involved and often you assume that if you're installing from a reputable repository it's going to be fine. If people aren't vetting the installation scripts and are installing from random repositories, that's really their problem. I'm glad the possibility existed and it's the one thing I've missed in distros I've used since then.

yardy_sardley ,

Not sure if sarcasm or actual disinformation. You’re not supposed to trust the aur, that’s kinda the whole point of it. The build scripts are transparent enough to allow users to manage their own risk, and at no point does building a package require root access.

ChonkaLoo ,

Well there is far less malware on Linux tbf so comparison is not completely accurate. But same caution applies, try to vet and understand what you install. That part is also easier with the AUR as it’s transparent in the packagebuild what it does unlike random exes with closed source. It’s also a large community with many eyes on the code so unless it’s a package with few users then it’s gonna get caught pretty quickly.

Maragato ,
@Maragato@lemmy.world avatar

That is, you admit that most aur users delegate that function to other eyes instead of auditing the external code they are installing. A user repository outside of the official distribution repository is not a secure means of installing packages on the system, which may have root access to the system and the source code may change with each package update. Do you think that every time there is an update to a package that is not widely used, others will audit the source code for you? For that reason I stopped using Aur and by extension Arch, as their software catalog outside of aur is small.

ChonkaLoo ,

Your comparison was with random exes on the most targeted, malware infested operating system out there.

Many eyes are always better than no eyes. I’m not saying you shouldn’t vet the code stop misinterpreting but no one knows or catches everything by themselves. That’s why security needs transparency. If it’s as insecure as you’re saying we would have way bigger problems but we don’t. AUR is not as safe as the Arch repository sure, but definitely safer than installing random exes on Windows. It’s a flawed comparison you’re making.

If you’re paranoid you should be on an immutable distro cause xz backdoor was in some official repos. Repo maintainers do not catch everything either it was just a mere coincidence someone caught it(again thanks to transparency & many eyes on code) before mass deployment. Installing anything with root access is a risk. Going online is a risk. But there are ways to mitigate risk. Some security you’re always gonna have to trade for convenience.

enemyofsun ,

there is far less malware on Linux

That’s a common misconception. Linux is the most popular OS for servers. There are a lot of malware for Linux, probably even more than for Windows.

ChonkaLoo ,

I think you’re missing the context. We’re not talking servers here but desktops. Arch is typically used on desktop systems. The threats that face desktops and servers are not the same. Same goes for risk and potential damage. Also please provide a source if you’re trying to debunk “common misconception”.

lud ,

Been running arch for 5 years, same install, even transplanted it over to newer computers without issues.

To be fair, I pretty much do that with Windows 10…

SentientFishbowl OP ,

Makes sense. Do you find that by having the same install for so long (including transplanting it) that you have accumulated a lot of bloat? One of the things I really enjoyed about a fresh install was that I knew there wasn’t a build-up of digital junk files, but with Arch fresh installing every once in a while just seems impractical.

nous ,

Not in any bothersome way. But if you really want to reinstall often that is valid as well. You can very easily script the arch install process to get you back to the same state far easier than other distros as well. Or you can just mass install everything except base and some core packages and reinstall the things you care about again which almost gives you a fresh install minus any unmanaged files (which are mostly in home and likely want to keep anyway).

danielquinn , (edited )
@danielquinn@lemmy.ca avatar

I’ve been using Arch for about 15 years or so, and yes, I build up cruft… in my home directory ;-). The system itself is remarkably good at keeping tidy. The one spot to keep an eye on is /var/cache/pacman, as that’s where it stores every package you download before installation and it won’t delete it without you asking it to.

Any new config file will be saved with a .pacsave extension, so you’ll want to keep an eye out for those, but that’s basically it

Ooops ,
@Ooops@feddit.org avatar

Which is a good point to remind people to install pacman-contrib and make running pacdiff regularly a habit…

Deckweiss ,

Most of the junk accumulates in /home and I did a cleaning once, where I got rid of a couple hundred GB there, from stuff that was either already uninstalled or still installed but unused for years.

In the other root directories, I didn’t find much tbh. My / (excluding home) takes up 40GB and I don’t think it was significantly lower years ago as the bulk of it comes from necessary program files.

Ooops ,
@Ooops@feddit.org avatar

The main trash you accumulate are config files in you home directory because they stay after the package is uninstalled. And they just sit there not hurting anybody.

skullgiver ,
@skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

Ubuntu installs upgrade well in my experience, unless you add weird and outdated software from external sources. A bit like manually installing pkgbuild files you found on Github. Stuff will break in the same way when dependencies don’t get upgraded.

That said, Arch installs will break when a random library decides to update, and Ubuntu will break years later when you decide to upgrade.

Except for maybe Gentoo, Arch is the most “gets in your way” OS I’ve seriously used. You need to be conscious of stuff like your bootloader configuration, the network manager you use, and sometimes the kind of Bluetooth daemon you’re running, or software may not work or break your boot. It’s pretty easy to use if you install Arch by picking the exact same software you can also find in other distros (i.e. the Ubuntu style grub+systemd+NetworkManager+Gnome set, or the Fedora systemd-boot+dracut+NetworkManager+Gnome set). Following the Arch guide without copying a preexisting software set will make your life very difficult, as I’ve found out.

mostlikelyaperson ,

Yup, Arch is by far the distro I have had the fewest amounts of technical issues with. Yes, you need to know what you are doing or be willing to read docs, but there’s no magical bullshit, maintainer capriciousness and lack of planning happening like I have unfortunately witnessed all too often while using other distros.

atzanteol ,

Linux distros are made for using, not teaching. That’s what LFS is for: www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/

ReveredOxygen ,
@ReveredOxygen@sh.itjust.works avatar

How is this relevant? They were talking about how Arch has a great user experience

atzanteol ,

Replied to the wrong post by accident.

z00s ,

Ubuntu is plastic

Maragato ,
@Maragato@lemmy.world avatar

Most of the time it is achieved with the phrase: “I use Arch, btw”. 😉

nichtburningturtle ,
@nichtburningturtle@feddit.org avatar

Also wearing unix socks might help

EDIT: A more complete guide. https://feddit.org/pictrs/image/3d0ce385-8cf2-4dd3-b5f5-950100cf21ba.webp

30p87 ,
@30p87@feddit.org avatar

Also, Blåhajar for better pics

SentientFishbowl OP ,

In a way this post is just long-form “I use Arch, btw” 🤯

lemmyvore ,

Don’t forget shitting on Arch-derived distros.

seaQueue ,
@seaQueue@lemmy.world avatar

We save that for Manjaro, endeavor and the others are pretty cool

lemmyvore ,

Yeah I know. Derivate distros are cool only if they don’t stray too far from Arch. How dare a distro do something different.

Keep it up, it’s a super cool look (and healthy) for a distro to hate on its own downstream.

Lettuceeatlettuce ,
@Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml avatar

You fell for the meme lol.

Arch is great if you want very high levels of customization without having to get into compiling and coding, like with Gentoo or NixOS.

I think of it as the distro equivalent to custom keyboard kit, you get all the parts and can swap them out as much as you want. But you’re not designing and fabricating your own circuit board and microcontroller, writing your own custom firmware, getting a custom case modeled and fabricated, etc.

There’s a reason “I use Arch, BTW” Is a meme.

probableprotogen ,

Tbh I only use arch because I still love openbox too much

Ghoelian ,

Can’t you just install openbox on any other distro? Looks like it’s available for all the major ones at least.

z00s ,

Check your neck for extra beard hairs, or your legs for knee high socks

Valmond ,

Knee high socks are for any Linux flavour 💖

TheGrandNagus ,

Damn right 💙

Valmond ,

Hell yeah! 💖💖💖

aks ,
@aks@pawb.social avatar

I have both

z00s ,

Ooh, a Gentoo user!

Mango ,

OP forgot the socks. Classic mistake.

vikingtons ,
@vikingtons@lemmy.world avatar

there’s arch socks?

foreverunsure ,

I think they’re referring to the socks you’re supposed to wear when programming :3

vikingtons ,
@vikingtons@lemmy.world avatar

o shit I was expecting merch lol

Mango ,

lemmy.world/c/[email protected]

JackbyDev ,

!unixsocks

Mango ,

Oh yeah that’s better.

django ,
@django@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Come for the memes, stay for the wiki and AUR.

verdigris ,

The meme is mostly a relic from the days when installing Arch was a very involved and mostly manual process – it wasn’t to the level of LFS, but you had to configure most of the base system, and it would leave you with a pretty bare-bones setup (no GUI by default, etc). So it was a pretty big hurdle and successfully installing it did give you a bit of nerd cred, though even then the “arch BTW” meme was tongue in cheek.

These days it’s just one of the most well-supported rolling release distros, and it’s got automated installers and GUI spins just like any popular distro. The two biggest assets are the AUR and the wiki.

NixOS does kind of feel like the spiritual successor in terms of effort to set up, and in that immutable OSes are kind of the next big thing, like rolling release was fairly unconventional when Arch was taking off.

olympicyes ,

I use Ubuntu but the Arch wiki is top notch and has helped me solved a lot of problems, especially technical issues like VFIO. I think you’re right that Arch love largely started as a meme to celebrate getting it installed, kind of like the jokes about being unable to exit VIM.

oo1 ,

I think you might be missing the part where memes are not real. aur is useful. arch wiki is useful.

booty ,
@booty@hexbear.net avatar

What exactly is it that people obsess over? The ricing?

Please refrain from using racist terms. Here’s a good thread about it.

Zozano ,
@Zozano@lemy.lol avatar

Please refrain from not shutting the fuck up. Here’s a good example of what everyone should do when being told to be upset about something because you say so.

booty ,
@booty@hexbear.net avatar

Please enjoy your ban whenever a mod sees this. kirby-wave

Zozano ,
@Zozano@lemy.lol avatar

Oh no, a minor inconvenience.

What_Religion_R_They ,

Always baffles me that people like this exist. Are you this abrasive to people in real life too?

Yor ,
@Yor@hexbear.net avatar

they would probably be very quiet about it irl and post paragraphs about it later that day

Zozano ,
@Zozano@lemy.lol avatar

It’s nice that you think I’ve got enough self control to wait for later in the day.

The moment the confrontation ends I’ll be writing my totally unbiased account of events on r/AITA so I can get immediate vindication.

Zozano ,
@Zozano@lemy.lol avatar

Well, I wouldn’t be as snarky about it because getting heated IRL is inconvenient.

But I’ve got no problem telling someone to fuck off if they imply something I said is offensive when it is obviously not conveyed in any context where offence would be justified.

SentientFishbowl OP ,

Thanks for pointing this out.

booty ,
@booty@hexbear.net avatar

Of course! Thanks for being cool. It always sucks to learn a term you’ve been using has a shitty meaning you didn’t intend, and some people react to that realization quite poorly as we can see below lol

lemmyvore ,

Ricing comes from car customization. It’s only racist if you make it racist.

It’s like saying “bad driver”, it’s racist if you say “all Asians are bad drivers” or mysoginist if you say “all women are bad drivers” but “bad driver” by itself is none of that.

booty ,
@booty@hexbear.net avatar

It comes from racist car customization slang, yes.

rickyrigatoni ,

How can I make using Arch Linux my personality when once it’s set up it’s just like any other computer?

Well, do you already have a personality that isn’t based on Arch? If you do, get rid of it.

namingthingsiseasy ,

What exactly is it that people obsess over? The desktop environment and terminal customisation? Setting up NetworkManager with nmcli? Using Vim to edit a .conf file?

Welcome to the crowd! Eventually, you realize that an operating system is just an operating system: something you use to get work done, and the less you notice it, the better it’s doing its job. The pride of setting it all up mostly ends very shortly after you’re done. At that point, you realize that pretty much all distros are the same, give or take.

That said, there are always moments that make you realize that your OS is amazing. When you’re faced with a new and difficult task that you don’t know how to achieve, then you look at your distro’s documentation and solve it in a few elegant steps. And I’m not an Arch user, but that’s when the Arch wiki will really be your friend, as well as all the other resources that Arch has for its users. I can’t think of examples of these kinds of moments because they’re so rare, but those are the moments that feel great and really make you appreciate your OS.

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