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simple ,
@simple@lemmy.world avatar

Darn, I posted this earlier but sadly lemm.ee is having server issues. This’ll be the main thread, then.

Official Blog Post | PS5 Pro Reveal Trailer

The PS5 Pro console will be available this holiday at a manufacturer’s suggested retail price (MSRP) of $699.99 USD, £699.99 GBP, €799.99 EUR, and ¥119,980 JPY (includes tax). It will include a 2TB SSD, a DualSense wireless controller and a copy of Astro’s Playroom pre-installed in every PS5 Pro purchase. PS5 Pro is available as a disc-less console, with the option to purchase the currently available Disc Drive for PS5 separately.

The big question mark for me is that not only does it cost 800 euros, it does NOT come with a disc drive. There is no version of it with a disc drive like the PS5, you have to buy it as an accessory. I guess physical games really are going away.

aStonedSanta ,

Yeah. Almost no one I know buys physical anything anymore. Kinda sad to see it go. We really need to instill some better laws around ownership of digital goods.

MrScottyTay , (edited )

I occasionally still buy physical on the few day one releases I get because somehow getting that delivered to my house can be £5 cheaper or more

aStonedSanta ,

That’s wild. I have had one or two work out around the same price. Like I bought the SMT V Steelbook or whatever cause I wanted that sick art on the case 👌

aStonedSanta ,

https://lemm.ee/pictrs/image/cbd64918-ca12-4243-849b-828dc1e6599a.jpeg

IamAnonymous ,

Laws aren’t going to help keep the price down which is also an issue apart from the digital ownership. It’s always cheaper to buy physical games as they go on sale. What’s stopping Sony from selling PS Exclusive for $100 only in their store?

Are we going to get restricted to only buying from Sony store or is Best Buy going to sell me a box with a digital code?

SolarMonkey , (edited )

I think this shift will be the end of me buying newer games, period.

I am that person who doesn’t ever buy digital. I have not bought a single digital game thus far (I haven’t pirated a game since like 2006, either). I have certainly played some, like with the PS+ subscription I got for a year when it was pretty cheap, but I wouldn’t buy them because I can’t be sure I own them, and there’s really no way to transfer the license to resell them.

If I can’t buy physical media, I simply won’t buy the games. Maybe I’ll use subscription services now and then, but more likely I’ll either find a way to play free or won’t play them at all and find other stuff. I want the physical media because I’m poor, and having the option to sell them in a pinch is important to me if I’m going to shell out a significant amount for something I’ll probably only play once, particularly since there won’t be a used game market to reduce my spend. I haven’t had to sell my games in a very long time, so I have some 400 discs, but it’s something of a savings option that inflates alongside currency, and sometimes much more.

criticon ,

I rent games via gamefly, I’ll definitely keep using discs

Katana314 ,

I was very close to getting a digital PS5, but I still need the drive for my old PS4 games and movies. If I were just getting into Sony now though, I imagine the story would be different.

ampersandrew OP ,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

The writing has been on the wall for physical games for some time. If you want to hold on to your games, DRM-free is better than physical.

simple ,
@simple@lemmy.world avatar

Sadly not an option for console. I don’t own a PS5 currently but when I did own consoles I would trade games and buy used all the time, it’s a shame this might not be possible next generation.

ampersandrew OP ,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

I know it’s not an option for consoles. Since the 7th gen, it was always moving in this direction. It’s probably one of dozens of reasons that PC overtook consoles in market share.

Dudewitbow ,

were basically at the point on the timeline where PC and Mobile basically kills consoles.

ampersandrew OP ,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

Arguably, consoles are killing themselves.

NuXCOM_90Percent ,

We’ve been there basically since the PS4/XBONE made it clear the focus was on common architectures and software toolchains so that the majority of games could be multiplatform by default.

The issue is what it always has been. People are afraid of managing drivers and software and likely have horror stories about Windows and hate the average Linux evangelist with a passion. Whereas consoles “just work”

And price wise? A good gaming PC that will last you a generation or two tends to cost about what a console+refresh SKU does. AND you generally want to wait until a few years after the start of a console generation to buy that GPU (time blurs but I want to say RTX was the big thing when the PS5 launched and now it is upscaling). Which makes it even harder to sell because you are telling people to save up even more AND to wait.

Much like “The year of Linux gaming”, it is the kind of thing that some people claim is constantly happening and the rest of us acknowledge is unlikely to ever happen en masse.

Dudewitbow ,

the difference is at least you can see it in more real time numbers. Xbox is clearly a dying brand, which leaves Sonys home console sales for now (~60M) and the switch as a handheld device. Devs are already starting to port everything on PC, and 1st party game development rate has gone down a lot. 3rd party devs are also starting to abandon console exclusively/timed exclusively over time (capcom making the next monster hunter simul release on pc instead of a year and a half cadence, square enix backtracking on making final fantasy a timed exclusive due to not enough sales)

Japan is completely flipping its old image of PC being the device for porn addicts of years past and starting to heavily buy into pc too, which is why Valve went to attend Tokyo gameshow to pitch the steamdeck for japanese handheld players(which remain the majority of console purchases in japan)

NuXCOM_90Percent ,

Devs have been porting (or originating) everything to PC since the PS4/XBONE era. So a decade or so? And first party development is lower across the board (excluding all the stuff Microsoft was doing before they stared culling studios left and right) because first parties are expected to release CoD level games rather than cool and fun platformers (Astrobot aside). NOBODY is doing Last Of Us level games en masse.

But basically you are describing the paradigm that MS have arguably been working toward since the start of the current generation. The idea that it doesn’t actually matter what hardware you buy so long as you buy the services/games of one of the platform holders. If you REALLY love Halo? Get an XBOX. If you REALLY love The Last Of Us? Get a Playstation. With the rest being third parties. It… just so happened that Microsoft bought most of the big name third parties and are figuring out how to balance “CoD prints money” with “We want to sell xboxes”.

But that still leaves what box you buy. And, in that regard, consoles are still going to appeal to “gamers” more than a desktop ever will. Especially as more and more kids become adults who don’t even like laptops because EVERYTHING they do is on a tablet.

As for Japan: The key there is not “Steam”. it is “Deck”. Japan has ALWAYS loved handhelds. In large part because the cities don’t have a lot of space for a giant TV and an entertainment center that can fit however many cubic meters the PS5 Pro is at this point. And a bigass desktop PC is also going to be a major space issue when so many people are used to a laptop while they sit in a chair or whatever. And while I do think the Steam Deck is going to do wonders to increase PC market share in Japan, I still don’t see it significantly overtaking consoles for “gamer gaming” as it were and to instead be more slotted in the mobile space and indie games like Stardew Valley that run perfectly fine on ultrabooks.

Dudewitbow ,

im not saying consoles have 0 appeal and wont have buyers, its just that their market is in real time, decreasing while on pc has increased, especially post covid. with the advent of streaming, more and more people are shifting over to PC because of it. im not saying consoles are dead as in 0 sales, but the market is forever going to decrease for it, as more people get into pc, and those countries that cant afford to already got into mobile gaming (mobile gaming accounts for more than 50% of the profits of game sales)

NuXCOM_90Percent ,

I mean, console sales decreased in the 80s and never went back up, right?

The reality is that a lot of people haven’t migrated from the previous gen. Partially because of supply chain issues from COVID. Partially because of economic uncertainty.

Stuff goes in waves. Time will tell. But in terms of “core” gaming, consoles still continue to dominate the “casual” market. And I suspect we are more likely to see “core” gaming going away in favor of mobile than for PC to suddenly dominate at the AA/AAA level.

Dudewitbow , (edited )

the problem is the covid supply chain ended a while ago and console sales havent drastically picked up since then. the PS5 has been orderable direct from sony for quite a long while now, and shortly after in stores. physical game sales (something console users champion, has gone way down (according to sony, only 30% of the sales are physical now)

NuXCOM_90Percent ,

Welcome to Walled Gardens. This is why so many of us swallowed our bile and rooted for Epic in their lawsuit against Apple.

NuXCOM_90Percent , (edited )

No disc drive and no fucking vertical stand/mount.

And yeah. Sony actually tried to “kill” physical games years ago with the PSP Go (?). But that was still when Gamestop and Best Buy were power houses and there was a lot of threats of “okay. We will give all the good shelf space to MS and Nintendo” and that went away fast.

But now brick and mortar are basically dead and everyone is periodically pissed at Amazon because they did an unsanctioned 2 dollar discount on a new game. So we are seeing the return.

In theory it annoys me because the playstations have always been okay-good media players and I have one of the gundam breakers on a physical disc because that was the cheapest way to get all the DLC. But for higher end digital media we are missing the codecs (because money) and physical digital media as a whole is going away. So… probably the right decision to wean people off it.

That said: Charging extra for the fucking vertical stand is just insane since a lot of us had tv stands that cannot fit the PS5 horizontally. But also, considering this looke like it is a bit taller/longer, it also can’t fit it vertically so… Even more reason to build a new HTPC over the next few years.

Remap, but also Rob Zacny (so you can never tell how much is actually a bit), did a REALLY good bit where they immediately priced out the new Remarkable with all the expensive attachments and… it is still (probably) cheaper than a PS5 Pro with a disc drive and a stand.

ampersandrew OP ,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

Remarkable is, presumably, a good bang-for-your-buck PC build?

NuXCOM_90Percent ,

No. Its a tablet. Marketed toward Professionals because of its focus on handwritten notes and sketches and the kind of thing where even the people who swear by it acknowledge it is insanely expensive and not something people should really buy.

Recurring theme on Remap but it very much highlights what category the ps5 pro is in. Same with comparing it to an apple vision pro.

Katana314 ,

They can still kind of kill physical games with good service. The whole “honey rather than vinegar” argument.

That’s what happened with the PSVita. While overpriced game cartridges existed, most of its lifespan people were buying its games digitally which worked great for indie developers that didn’t have a budget for physical releases.

NuXCOM_90Percent ,

I mean… that is what happened on PC. I know people forget we exist, but basically anyone who was “a gamer” back in the early 00s embraced digital distribution and Steam for a reason. Because after the third time that you have done four disc swaps and entered three 30 character keys to play Neverwinter Nights 1? That shit gets REAL old. Same with needing to be aware of what order to install what patches so as to not brick Dawn of War: Soulstornm and have to reinstall everything.

Contrast that with double clicking something in fricking Impulse and then waiting 30 minutes for it to install.

Which is kind of what you described with the Vita. Nobody wanted to have to carry two or three UMDs with them anywhere they want (let alone the rise of indie games that never had a digital release). Tinfoil, but I strongly suspect Nintendo made a big deal about not licking cartridges so that the Jeff Gerstmanns of the world would… lick that shit. Which led to the meme and people wanting to buy cartridges.

Omegamanthethird ,
@Omegamanthethird@lemmy.world avatar

As someone who buys expensive games, games I’m excited for, or just franchises I’m invested in, the death of discs is going to really make me reevaluate my gaming. I’ll probably at least wait for a sale for every single game if I can’t have a physical copy.

Almost all of my digital purchases are cheap games.

JusticeForPorygon ,
@JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.world avatar

Wouldn’t it be funny if like no one bought it

Like that’s obviously not gonna happen but like wouldn’t it be funny

ampersandrew OP ,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

I thought the same thing about Concord, and then no one did buy it, and that too was funny.

kryptonianCodeMonkey , (edited )

Would be funnier if only scalpers bought it and couldn’t unload them.

cm0002 ,

Ah, continuing with the ugly AF design language I see. Guess I’m skipping the entire PS5 gen then. See you guys for the PS6!

TownhouseGloryHole ,

No kidding. I am shocked they somehow made it even uglier. Was really hoping for a simpler, less obnoxious design.

TheBat ,
@TheBat@lemmy.world avatar

Are there enough exclusives to justify buying one? 🤔

NOT_RICK , (edited )
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

If you have to ask, not really no.

100 ,

concord

sverit ,

Too soon

v4ld1z ,
@v4ld1z@lemmy.zip avatar

A base PS5 maybe if you like the franchises and want a hassle-free “just gaming” experience on a console. Many of them exist on PC nowadays though. And 800€ for a console is just robbery

B0NK3RS ,
@B0NK3RS@lemmy.world avatar

That’s a lot of money for a generation that just isn’t worth it.

garretble ,
@garretble@lemmy.world avatar

$700 is too much money. Especially if you already have a PS5.

Banichan ,
@Banichan@dormi.zone avatar

Fuck you, I’m trading up. Have fun living in the past!

MotoAsh ,

PCs will always outperform consoles in both performance and capability, so have fun being a loser clinging to a failing industry.

IsThisAnAI ,

This is dense. The base PS5 for a good portion of is life provided an unbeatable price to performance value. For a long time you’d be taking about $600 for just the GPU.

They’ve sold 60M units. This crap has been parroted by fanboys on both sides since the 80s.

v4ld1z ,
@v4ld1z@lemmy.zip avatar

We use our PS5 daily to both play games and watch media. It’s invaluable in our household. Using a PC for all that just seems to unnecessarily annoying, convoluted, and uncomfy. Sure, you could use a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard to use it off the sofa but the sheer simplicity of just using a controller to do anything is just awesome. Not even touching upon not needing to do maintenance to the PC, buying newer components once older ones get inevitably obsolete etc etc.

For me personally, the PS5 has been a hit since day one. And yea, its price was a little steep upfront, but it’s been very much worth the money over the past four years. I don’t get people who unapologetically bash consoles from a sense of superiority. I thought we were past this lol

IsThisAnAI ,

People get real mad when I tell them it’s cheaper because I can rent and resell games. Just yelling no way it’s cheaper because you’re spending $60/ yr for online. It’s become an identity for them.

filister ,

The best part of the PS5 is that you can buy and sell discs at much more reasonable prices.

But my feeling is that they will soon start shipping consoles without a disk drive. Maybe PS 6 will be the last one.

IsThisAnAI , (edited )

Big concern of mine. Was a huge concern when steam ruined it on PC 20 years ago. Game fly if you are in the states is worth it’s weight in gold. I played at least $2000 worth of games last year for about $300.

filister ,

You can install Plex/Jellyfin on the PC and get a much better experience, watch on the phone, tablet, serve multiple clients, etc.

So your argument is unsubstantial.

IsThisAnAI ,

🙄👌👍

v4ld1z ,
@v4ld1z@lemmy.zip avatar

Ok

Pacmanlives , (edited )

I agree! I wanted one for another room in my house but at this price point no way I am doing that!!!

With the last gen and the current gen being basically PC’s why not just go the PC route at this point? I am kind of at that point right now

ampersandrew OP ,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

You might look into the mini PC form factor and throw Bazzite on it for a Steam console-esque experience.

TexasDrunk ,

I have a few of these running HoloISO running around the house to stream graphic intense games from my main rig and to run smaller games locally. Runs fine with a 680m iGPU and I never have to leave the room I’m in (garage included) to play games if I want.

It cost more than a console, but far less than the 5 consoles I’d have to put out for that kind of convenience.

jacksilver ,

That’s actually why I went with the Xbox this cycle. I got a series x for the large TV and a $200 (on sale) series S for the smaller one (although we usually just use a computer monitor and play side by side on the couch).

RightHandOfIkaros ,

$200 extra for reflections between cars in GT7 or slightly better shadow resolution is not worth it IMO.

My PS5 already collects dust as it is, since there are next to no games that actually make use of its hardware that I cannot already buy on PC to run at higher settings.

lowleveldata ,

How good is the GPU? Is it better than my 4070ti super boi?

warm ,

Not even close. Your GPU decimates it.

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

PS5 pro: 33.5 TF 4070ti super: 44 TF

All teraflops are not the same but this is a big enough delta for me to say no, your card is better.

fossphi , (edited )

4070 ti super

What? There’s cards with both ti and super in the name‽

Suavevillain ,
@Suavevillain@lemmy.world avatar

What game would even justify that price tag lol and no disk tray.

missingno ,
@missingno@fedia.io avatar

SIX HUNDRED AND NINETY NINE US DOLLARS

sigmaklimgrindset ,

FOR NO DISC DRIVE

mintiefresh ,

I can’t see how this is worth it for anyone. Are there even games that are pushing the current PS5?

No disc drive either.

Z3k3 ,

No disc drive either.

I’m out

redy_velvet ,

There are games that perform poorly, but to my understanding that’s not the hardware’s fault

burgersc12 ,

You could buy a pretty nice PC for $700

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Which could play MS and Sony games. I don’t think consoles make much sense nowadays.

burgersc12 ,

And the best part is you don’t have to pay for online and you won’t need to rebuy your games each new console generation.

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

First one I’ll grant you, but there was no rebuying from last gen to current gen for anything non-Nintendo.

burgersc12 , (edited )

If you pay for the discs, you can’t use the discs on future generations. Right? Ps4 can’t read ps3 or ps2 discs. Xbox one can read xbox and 360 discs, but they limit it to only specific games. So in general, you have to buy it once again on their online store, if its available at all.

60fpsrefugee ,

While pc can play old games, you can sometimes run into compatibility issues. Especially games in the ps1/2/3 era.

Og Xbox and xbox 360 games work without much issues on Xbox one and series XS. Ps4 and Xbox one games are 99% playable on Series XS and Ps5.

sigmaklimgrindset ,

Yeah, idk why Ps4 has no backwards compatibility. PS3 (fat) was backwards compatible with PS 1+2, and PS5 is backwards compatible for PS4. I didn’t buy a PS4 for that exact reason, and was lucky enough to get my hands on a PS5 during launch to play all the PS4 games I missed.

With all the niche Japanese games I like slowly coming to PC, I probably won’t buy a new console ever again. (As an aside, if anyone has a spare fat PS3 they’re willing to sell for parts…)

burgersc12 ,

It just feels so anti-consumer and everyones forgets about it and they just happily pay for content which can no longer be owned only rented.

sigmaklimgrindset , (edited )

I agree. One of the few reasons I still stuck to consoles is because I could buy the physical games and have it on my shelf forever. That’s going the way of the dinosaurs, and while I love that things are more accessible via Steam or whatever, I can’t let my friends borrow my games, or pass it along to someone else to enjoy if I didn’t like a game as much.

I also just love collecting and displaying game cases and steelbooks and stuff. That’s rarely a thing anymore, either.

wiccan2 ,

The lack of backwards comparability is because of the large difference in architecture.

The PS2 was a128 bit custom processor, the PS3 had PS2 hardware in the original fat versions to achieve backwards compatibility, it was dropped to reduce the price.

The PS3 was a 64 bit (I think) custom PowerPC processor.

With the PS4 Sony switched to x86_64 processors making the console essentially a PC with bespoke custom hardware. The PS5 is the same but better speced components as the tech moved on. That’s why the PS4 & 5 are compatible, they are essentially using the same architecture.

Microsoft is a similar story but they went all in on emulation of their old consoles which is why only certain games are allowed, they only allow the ones tested to work with the emulator.

sigmaklimgrindset ,

The PS3 was a 64 bit (I think) custom PowerPC processor.

Thanks for jogging my memory, I completely forgot how different the PS3 architecture is compared to the other PlayStations and also the 360. Same reason why emulation for it is so hard (and why MGS4 has no modern ports 🥲)

HeyJoe ,

It did when the ps5 first came out. $500 for it was a steal back then. I wanted to build a PC at the time but due to the crazy GPU prices and low stock for other parts I decided it was best to wait. Got a ps5 instead (was also hard to get as well) and thought it was absolutely worth the price for the experience it offered. Just built the pc I wanted last fall shortly after prices started dropping. First time ever I made a good choice.

Ashtear ,

Yeah, after that time I really didn’t think consoles would be as much as a midrange PC. And yet, here we are. Feels like Sony’s back to late PS2 era levels of hubris now.

Shard ,

Get yours! Now with 50% more AI™

Hurry while stocks last!

Glytch ,

That’s why you build your own. It’s actually really easy to do.

PunchingWood ,

Depending on how much you care about visuals, yeah.

A decent GPU will often be the price of an entire console. That said, even if you go with high-end hardware I found that eventually the cost will make up for itself for not having to pay for PSN to make use of and play on the internet. Or the fact that games are very often priced up to 50% more on the PS store than those on PC because there are no competing stores.

ZeroTwo ,

They need to pump out more games to justify this. I see no reason to upgrade as mine already sits and collects dust. The controller is super awesome tho, use it all the time for my PC.

60fpsrefugee ,

Sony thinks so too, which is why they increase the controller’s price, lol.

IsThisAnAI ,

I love sunny and have 2 ps5s. This thing is DOA.

zib ,

The PS5 is already a very powerful piece of hardware that most devs aren’t making full use of. I honestly can’t see any justification in a hardware upgrade other than some Sony execs thinking it’ll be the end of the world if they don’t put out something new to make some profit line continue to go up.

Aielman15 , (edited )
@Aielman15@lemmy.world avatar

This generation is already pretty weak, and it was hard to justify the original PS5 which, after a whopping four years, still has too few exclusive titles to justify the increased price point. Now they are asking for $700 (and they increased the controller’s price, too), but there’s still too few next gen titles, and it doesn’t even come with basic features like a disc tray and a vertical mount. Not even a better form factor, it’s the same old ugly case, but somehow bigger.

The only premium thing about this thing is the price tag. $700 dollars but €800, because apparently they are dominating the European market so much that they don’t even have to try to sell it at an honest price point. With all those money you can just buy a PC. I honestly don’t think that many people who are interested in the console market (which, historically, has always been a “low budget” entry into modern gaming) would be willing to spend so much money on one.

I guess we circled back to the PS3 era, when Sony got drunk with overconfidence. Only, this time they’ll get away with it because their main competitor is somehow even more incompetent than them. I wonder if the handheld PC market will pose a threat to their dominance in the future - at the moment, it’s a very small niche.

v4ld1z , (edited )
@v4ld1z@lemmy.zip avatar

It’s just so sad. I remember back when the PS4 Pro came out and you could trade in your old PS4 for a little on top to get a Pro at GameStop. It was a night and day difference going from a base PS4 to a Pro - and merely for the price of the console, 3 random games off a list of curated games, two controllers, iirc, and 100€. It was straight gas for me.

Paying 300€ on top - realistically even more because you’re not gonna sell a used PS5 for 500€ nowadays - plus the money for a disc drive and a vertical stand would set you back like 900-1000€. Completely out of their minds

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