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doctorcrimson , (edited )

I saw this game earlier and was interested but the rollout seemed pretty fucked so I’m not touching it.

dumpsterlid ,

I keep watching clips of Helldivers 2 and it looks fun but I don’t understand why I would play it over Deep Rock Galactic, especially when the original Helldivers actually has splitscreen co-op.

So what does this game’s combat bring over Deep Rock Galactic? It seems a lot flatter and less tense.

I really want to see a good YouTube reviewer critically compare them.

sneezymrmilo ,

I’ve played both games and tbh I wouldn’t really compare them, I like them both individually. Helldivers 2 is a lot more focused on combat and fighting overwhelming hoards of enemies. On higher difficulties sometimes stealth or just running away is the best solution because of how absurd the number of enemies are. Its honestly really fun just trying (sometimes in vain) to thin out enemy numbers while protecting an objective. That being said, everyone gets access to cool down based, very powerful orbital abilities that do everything from calling down powerful support weapons to dropping a 500kg bomb on a bunch of enemies. At the moment there are 2 different enemy factions that require pretty different playstyles to overcome as well. Honestly pretty dope game, check out SkillUp on YouTube for a good review of the game.

dumpsterlid ,

Helldivers 2 is a lot more focused on combat and fighting overwhelming hoards of enemies.

I confused, Deep Rock Galactic is almost entirely focused on fighting overwhelming hoards of enemies. Stealth isn’t an option since they aggro at you which seems like a significant difference though.

Notorious_handholder ,

Having played both games, I gotta say while DRG does have hordes, they’re not on the same level as HD2. HD2 is the first game in a while that truly has made me feel overwhelmed by the amount of enemies thrown at me and I love it. In HD2 I even find myself doing stealth a lot to sneak past patrols.

Overall though I don’t think it’s worth it trying to compare DRG to HD2. They might look similar in some aspects. But they are vastly different in gameplay, experience, and mechanics. It’s apples to tomatoes, sure they’re both technically red fruits, but that’s where the similarity ends.

Motorheadbanger ,

May I introduce you to a custom difficulty mod for drg? 6x2 will absolutely drown you in bugs

baropithecus , (edited )

I love all three, but they are quite different in their gameplay. In DRG you choose a class upfront so your role is more defined by this choice, the challenge is mainly about getting your bearings and traversing the terrain, and the mission objectives are (IMO) more involved. In HD2, the challenge is more about surviving against hordes of enemies without killing each other. In DRG, if you shoot somebody you hear a funny voice line, but I don’t think I’ve ever killed a teammate by shooting them. In HD2, this happens all the time.

I don’t understand why I would play it over Deep Rock Galactic, especially when the original Helldivers actually has splitscreen co-op.

I don’t see the logical connection here, but you do you. Perhaps worth pointing out, the original Helldivers doesn’t have splitscreen but rather shared screen coop – meaning you can’t get separated from your teammates, which is both a feature and a pretty big limitation.

billiam0202 ,

I don’t think I’ve ever killed a teammate by shooting them.

Tell me you don’t have the Fatboy OC, without telling me you don’t have the Fatboy OC.

Rock and Stone!

okamiueru ,

I have played both DRG and HD2. I think you simply have to play HD2 to answer that question. It might not be for you, but having played both games “a lot flatter and less tense” is how I feel about DRG.

Guy_Fieris_Hair ,

It is absolutely absurd. There have been a lot of games that aren’t polished come out in the last half a decade that got a LOT of flack, but this one cannot be played without a connection to the servers and no one can connect to the servers. I have 15 hours logged and probably 4 of that has actually been playing. The game is by every definition LITERALLY Unplayable.

Tedrow ,
@Tedrow@lemmy.world avatar

But when you are able to play it is great. I don’t think it’s fair to judge it’s gameplay from not beiyablento connect due to sever being full. It’s a valid complaint about not being able to log in. That being said, I don’t really blame the developers because there was no possible way they could have known their game would have been this big.

aStonedSanta ,

I paid for a product I can’t use. That absolutely is part of my fucking review. What the fuck??

Tedrow ,
@Tedrow@lemmy.world avatar

That’s what I said. It is a valid complaint but not a review of the game itself. It’s like wanting to go on a ride at Disney. Does the line suck? Yeah. But is the ride bad? Maybe it’s not worth the wait when you paid to get in. But that’s why the developers are straight up telling people to not buy the game until they can let more people play.

aStonedSanta ,

I expect a wait at Disney. I don’t expect a wait for a pve game. Sorry.

Tedrow ,
@Tedrow@lemmy.world avatar

Yup, totally understandable. I’m simply saying it isn’t an indictment of the game itself.

aStonedSanta ,

It is an indictment of the game. I’m attempting to play the game I should be able to play and cannot. It ruins and degrades my experience and is very much a part of the game. As the game is launched.

LZamperini ,

Off topic. Is the anti cheat as invasive as people make it out to be? I'm no computer wiz but I've stopped playing pvp games with root kits but don't actually know enough. Also anti cheat in a pve game lol.

andyburke ,
@andyburke@fedia.io avatar

Don't get pulled in by this bullshit. Some game is not worth a rootkit. Take back out hardware.

Voroxpete ,

It rootkits your PC, and some versions have a privelige escalation exploit where an attacker can run any arbitrary code as root.

Goronmon OP ,

It rootkits your PC, and some versions have a privelige escalation exploit where an attacker can run any arbitrary code as root.

Hasn’t Steam itself had issues with privilege escalation exploits in the past?

Voroxpete ,

Probably? I’m not sure how that’s relevant to what I said though.

Goronmon OP ,

That makes Steam a “rootkit” then, correct? People should really stop using it.

UndercoverUlrikHD ,

Since Microsoft has access to your entire windows system, there’s no harm letting every other company have it too then?

Voroxpete ,

No, it doesn’t, and you’re betraying your ignorance of the topic by making the suggestion.

First of all, when we refer to rootkits, we’re talking about the fact that NProtect, by design, gains an absolutely staggering amount of access to the kernel space of your computer. VAC, by comparison, does not demand anything like the same level of access. You’re making an apples to oranges comparison, and when questioned on it responding with “But they’re both citrus fruit, right?”

No, they’re not, and the fact that you think they are means you don’t know nearly as much about this subject as you think.

But putting that aside for a moment, suppose one day you went hang gliding. Then, upon telling me about how much you enjoyed it, I immediately demanded that you play Russian roulette with me, and got seriously offended when you refused. That would be insane, right?

So you see how a person consenting to one risk doesn’t obligate them to consent to others? It’s not an all or nothing state between “My computer is exposed to exactly zero vulnerabilities” and “My computer is exposed to literally every vulnerability ever”.

Every single program you install on your computer brings some potential amount of risk, but a) that risk is MUCH higher when the program demands the kind of kernel level access to resources like your memory that NProtect wants, and b) that risk has to be commensurate to the benefits offered, and it’s hard to see what benefit I’m being offered by a notably cheaply made kernel level anti-cheat in a purely cooperative gameplay experience.

Goronmon OP ,

I gave a concrete example of an exploit using Steam, and you’ve provided a hypothetical while arguing that your hypothetical example is much more risky (and compared it to hang gliding vs Russian roulette).

Specifically how much more of a risk is it to have kernel level anti-cheat installed than it is to install software like Steam and games on your system? Since you are claiming in-depth knowledge I would actually like to know more specifics for future reference. I don’t find the hang-gliding/russian-roulette example super helpful personally.

…it’s hard to see what benefit I’m being offered by a notably cheaply made kernel level anti-cheat in a purely cooperative gameplay experience.

You don’t see how it would affect your enjoyment of the game to have someone insta-killing all the enemies in a match, or generating 1000x more rewards than you would normally receive, breaking the progression permanently?

c0mbatbag3l ,
@c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world avatar

Insert meme of guy sweating over two buttons here

c0mbatbag3l ,
@c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world avatar

For some reason FOSS bros don’t have any issues with capitalism or security when it comes to Steam, they think Gaben shits gold or something idk. It’s weird. Steam is virtually a monopoly and has had security vulnerabilities in the past but they just plug their ears and ignore it.

centopus ,
@centopus@kbin.social avatar

Yes it is. Its literally a free for all rootkit on your system. Anything you run can exploit it. Its an open invitation to take over your system. The only way I'd run this, would be under linux with proton emulation layer.

Dark_Arc ,
@Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg avatar

I think it’s roughly as bad as EAC or Battleye. The big difference is it’s by a less known company.

Voroxpete ,

EAC and Battleye, to my knowledge, demand significantly less access to your system. Because they’re made by people who know what they’re doing.

Rootkitting the whole computer is basically the “Getting rid of the possum under the porch with dynamite” approach.

Rolder ,

Bonus point, it doesn’t even work, judging from the videos I’ve seen of people cheating ammo counts or resources

AlexisFR ,
@AlexisFR@jlai.lu avatar

Not really, it opens and scans the PC when you launch the game and then closes itself once you quit the game.

c0mbatbag3l ,
@c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world avatar

Setting aside that there really shouldn’t even be an anticheat in a PvE game (unless progression allows you to unlock items that are real world currency based on which I could see why they’d want to stop people from accessing it without one of their two methods) the concept of a rootkit doesn’t equal “software with admin privileges.”

A rootkit is a package of different (specifically malicious) programs that are designed to hide themselves from your system.

Is the anticheat designed to be invisible when installed or running? No. Is it designed to specifically be malicious? No. Therefore it’s not a rootkit.

There’s a difference between software designed for malicious purposes and software that has the ability to be hijacked for a malicious purpose. These two aren’t the same and everyone with even a smidgeon of actual IT security knowledge would acknowledge that at the bare minimum which no one in this thread seems to have done yet.

This isn’t just semantics, rootkits are defined by their purpose not their permissions. Bunch of script kiddies in this website pretending their ability to install Arch makes them professional Comp Sci degree holders.

dlpkl ,

unless progression allows you to unlock items that are real world currency based on which I could see why they’d want to stop people from accessing it without one of their two methods

This is the reason I believe. There’s a premium season pass that has some later game unlocks which they probably want to incentivize. That, and there’s a meta-game that depends on the community making concerted efforts to progress the story. I’m assuming that they don’t want a modder to unbalance that.

c0mbatbag3l ,
@c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, it’s definitely getting difficult to identify the difference in PvE and PvP from a security and financial standpoint in the modern live service landscape. Games that don’t include direct competition still have aspects of them which can be messed up by other people with cheats.

A somewhat similar concept is how easy it is to stop at the space anomaly in NMS and get handed a stack of Starship AI valves that will immediately skip you past early-mid game progression in a lot of gameplay loops. It has nothing to do with paid currency which is why they don’t stop it but the idea is similar I guess.

GoodEye8 ,

Setting aside that there really shouldn’t even be an anticheat in a PvE game (unless progression allows you to unlock items that are real world currency based on which I could see why they’d want to stop people from accessing it without one of their two methods)

I can think of another reason. It’s a live service game where it’s the community vs the game masters. They want to tell a story within the game and direct us with community challenges. Right now there’s a challenge to protect planets from automaton invasions. We lost the first planet, won a few but it’s not looking as much of a clearcut victory like the first challenge was. There’s a real chance we fail this challenge and maybe that part of their plan?

So what would happen if you let cheaters run amok? Now you can’t tell a story where the community fails, because cheaters can guarantee wins. If you make it so hard cheaters can’t win you’re going to make it completely impossible for the community and that’s just not fun. So what can you do to make it fun for the community? Crack down on cheaters.

I just don’t see another rational reason to have anticheat. Even the real world currency isn’t that useful because it’s mostly for buying armors for cosmetic purposes. There’s really not much to gain from circumventing the real world currency.

denast ,

Off topic to the off topic. OS masterminds out there, does rootkit anti-cheat translates to Linux over Proton? I assume not? If Proton is not originally run as root, it shouldn’t be able to elevate its privileges, correct?

Evotech ,

By nature root kits are invasive. But they probably don’t collect all that much

TheaoneAndOnly27 ,

Yeah I have 12 and a half hours in the game and most of that has been staring at a black screen. Waiting to see if it'll load

avater , (edited )
@avater@lemmy.world avatar

Unplayable right now.

O_i ,

It’s crazy peoples experiences so far, I got to play all week with zero issues, had some issues over the weekend but decided to not queue up to let others join.

CountVon , (edited )
@CountVon@sh.itjust.works avatar

If you look at the Steam player charts for the game you’ll see when it’s working vs. when it’s not. Off-peak it works fine, but right now the player base is ramming up against their temporary player cap for hours at a time on-peak. If you try to connect when there are thousands of others also trying to connect, that’s when things go south. That was the case for much of the weekend.

Edit: Here’s a chart illustrating what I mean: https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/944808ea-5089-4bbe-8400-91c6d13e12fa.png

In the last 48 hours, player counts hit 400k at about 7pm Eastern UTC and just stayed there for 6-ish hours. That isn’t normal, almost all other player count charts show a gradual rise and fall over the course of a day. The devs implemented an artificial cap after they found that their servers bog down when there are too many active players, basically sacrificing the peak time login experience to preserve the in-game experience. If you try to connect while the active player count is pegged, you’re essentially joining a swarm of other players who are also trying to connect at the same time. That swarm is likely DOSing some aspect of their own login systems.

PrettyLights ,

A lot of the player count on steam is users AFK idling so they don’t have to get stuck in queue again. My discord friend list is a ton of idle users on Helldivers 2 all day and night

CountVon ,
@CountVon@sh.itjust.works avatar

Yeah, that’s definitely a thing. They need to implement an idle timer. Seems like a low effort feature that would improve the login experience significantly.

LaserTurboShark69 ,

The server issues were cute for a couple days following their overwhelming success but I would like to be able to play the game I fucking paid for now please

Gandarf ,
@Gandarf@startrek.website avatar

Game won’t even launch for me. Just a black screen. Maybe this will fix it? otherwise I’m enjoying the Starship Troopers game, in its stead.

Kovukono ,

You can get past the black screen by deleting the config file in the game’s appdata. After that, it’ll launch, you’ll apply settings, and you’ll get stuck on the “Defrosting Helldiver” screen because you can’t access a server, and be stuck with a black screen the next time you launch. I’m having so much fun.

Gandarf ,
@Gandarf@startrek.website avatar

So glad there’s a… Work around…? They got 1 week before I refund I guess.

DonjonMaester ,

In the config file under appdata, edit fullscreen flag to false. Its one of the first lines in the file.

finthechat , (edited )
@finthechat@kbin.social avatar

Steam is allowing refunds even over 2 hours for this game, just fyi

Oh man actually take that last comment with a grain of salt, I am seeing conflicting reports on the Steam boards about that today, sorry about that

Gandarf ,
@Gandarf@startrek.website avatar

Oh! Good to know. Thanks!

finthechat ,
@finthechat@kbin.social avatar

Oh man actually take that last comment with a grain of salt, I am seeing conflicting reports on the Steam boards about that today, sorry about that

Gandarf ,
@Gandarf@startrek.website avatar

Understood. Thanks for the follow up

CountVon ,
@CountVon@sh.itjust.works avatar

If you let it sit on the black screen, it will eventually let you in. Or to be exact it will eventually display the intro movie and splash screen, you’ll probably see servers at capacity there and after some time there you’ll eventually get in. Not exactly sure what it’s doing on that black screen, but I’m guessing it’s trying to talk to some server that’s massively overloaded. I spent most of the weekend playing with friends, so I had to suffer through the wait multiple times.

Gandarf ,
@Gandarf@startrek.website avatar

Hmm. I don’t like the waiting. I have about 1.5hrs of playtime before I can get it refunded with ease. I’ll just see what state it’s in next weekend and refund if it’s still iffy.

ExcursionInversion ,
@ExcursionInversion@lemmy.world avatar

Black screen is the first boss Servers are full screen second boss

Just have to wait for both

arudesalad ,

I read somewhere that the server issues and the black screen is related

A_Toasty_Strudel ,
@A_Toasty_Strudel@lemmy.world avatar

That’d be great. I’ve had the game for a week or so, and most of that time has been spent playing other things because H2 is completely and literally unplayable with the current server issues.

arudesalad ,

If your outside the usa you can probably avoid the peak times on the weekends, that’s how I’ve been getting into the servers

AlexisFR ,
@AlexisFR@jlai.lu avatar

Yeah, I had to put it down since last Sunday, as server keep being full after 20:00 each evening since then.

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