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How do we get "normies" to adopt the Fediverse?

This is a follow-up from my previous thread.

The thread discussed the question of why people tend to choose proprietary microblogging platfroms (i.e. Bluesky or Threads) over the free and open source microblogging platform, Mastodon.

The reasons, summarised by @noodlejetski are:

  1. marketing
  2. not having to pick the instance when registering
  3. people who have experienced Mastodon’s hermetic culture discouraging others from joining
  4. algorithms helping discover people and content to follow
  5. marketing

and I’m saying that as a firm Mastodon user and believer.

Now that we know why people move to proprietary microblogging platforms, we can also produce methods to counter this.

How do we get “normies” to adopt the Fediverse?

FeelzGoodMan420 ,

The Fediverse needs a hell of a lot of work before we can even consider mass adoption.

hendrik , (edited )

Create a nice atmosphere.

Make it simple and remove any technical barriers. They should be able to google "Fediverse" click on the first link. Choose a username and be on their way. Find the app with the same name and install it in 2 minutes.

The network effect is a thing. They need to already find lots of their friends, interesting people and their favorite stars there.

And it has to be easy to discover them, if we don't have an "algorithm" that suggests content.

WatDabney ,

With all due respect, fuck the normies. The fediverse is better off without them.

sunzu2 ,

We all love bashing out less techie friends but dunking on them is counter productive!

Like it or not they make the main/lame stream. We need fedi to go mainstream to deny corpo trash profits.

Like it or not, normies must be onboarded!

crawancon ,

but once there is a big pond with a lot of fish, there will be sharks.

sunzu2 ,

bots, feds and shills will always fall a school of fish for hunting :/

lightnsfw ,

We need fedi to go mainstream to deny corpo trash profits.

Why? Who cares if we don’t have to interact with them? Becoming mainstream was the downfall of Reddit.

sunzu2 ,

If you don't forge your own destiny, then somebody will do it for you aka reddit.

Reddit failed due to governance and centralization issue. Not BC it was mainstream IMHO

lightnsfw ,

You don’t think the massive amount of repetitive jokes and reposts and overall shitty attention whoring content was a problem on Reddit?

sunzu2 ,

I would posit that the main/lame stream is not the actor doing that shit but rather that their presence attracts bad faith actors.

lightnsfw ,

So we’re still better off without them.

kbal ,
@kbal@fedia.io avatar

Maybe I don't want the "normies" around, whoever they are, but personally I would like to see a lot more people joining in such as Go players, Skyrim modders, situationists, auto mechanics, British panel show enthusiasts, death metal guitarists, discordians, card sharks, magicians, acid heads, skydivers, xylophonists, and amateur zookeepers. This part of fedi has more than enough politics and computers and too little everything else.

WatDabney ,

Just be patient.

Blaze ,
@Blaze@feddit.org avatar

Feel free to have a look at !newcommunities for active niche communities

fireweed ,

Lemmy (or at least lemmy.world) was bonkers levels of buggy last summer during the reddit blackout. Like, literally unusable levels of buggy. Getting the word out that it’s (mostly) bug-free now would probably be good, because I’m sure there were many redditors who tried it and quickly swore it off as a pile of shit.

Otherwise I’m in agreement that the instance-selection part of sign-up is a huge barrier, because what instance you choose is actually really important but it’s overwhelming when you’re just getting started. Plus not being able to migrate your account/communities/posts to another instance if yours goes to shit/shuts down/turns out to not fit your needs makes the fediverse feel really unstable.

Zak ,
@Zak@lemmy.world avatar

It was hit with a DDOS for an extended period of time. I suspect the attackers were successful in substantially hampering adoption of Lemmy as a whole.

Blaze ,
@Blaze@feddit.org avatar

Otherwise I’m in agreement that the instance-selection part of sign-up is a huge barrier, because what instance you choose is actually really important but it’s overwhelming when you’re just getting started.

Point them to lemm.ee, they can move later if they want. The name is neutral and it’s the second biggest

Plus not being able to migrate your account/communities/posts to another instance if yours goes to shit/shuts down/turns out to not fit your needs makes the fediverse feel really unstable.

Can people move their posts from Twitter/Reddit now that they are enshitiffied? This requirement isn’t usually expected from centralized systems, so this should be the same here

fireweed ,

The difference is if the primary (sometimes only) admin of your instance loses interest, goes to jail, or gets hit by a truck, your entire instance could be dead in the water, whereas there are way more safeguards to “established” social media like Reddit and Twitter. Plus the issue of “well shit my instance got defederated from most of the fediverse because it turns out the admin is an asshat” is completely nonsensical on platforms without instances. Example: before I knew that Lemmy had a tankie problem, I almost signed up on lemmygrad because I thought it was just a witty pun…

Plus when you say “point them to lem.ee” what scenario are you imagining? Because “you should join reddit” or “our business is on Facebook” or “Twitter is a great resource for artists” are all straightforward and easy pieces of information to convey and pick up. “Join Lemmy, a subset of the fediverse, I signed up via lemmy.world although I hear lem.ee is also good, but don’t let that stop you from picking another instance” is like… Dude, people just want to go to [site].com, click on “sign up”, enter a username and password (and maybe email) and that’s it. Just having to explain to people that “lemmy.com” isn’t a thing is already too complicated for most folks.

mozz , (edited )
@mozz@mbin.grits.dev avatar
  1. Stop calling it “the fediverse”
nokturne213 ,

Every time I hear Fediverse I imagine a universe full of nothing but different versions of Kevin Federline.

Blaze ,
@Blaze@feddit.org avatar

It’s already happening.

People say Lemmy when they mean the link aggregator part of the Fediverse.

People say Mastodon when they mean the microblogging part.

And really okay, at least people get it: one name, one concept

GBU_28 ,

It sounds like a furry cinematic universe

Fizz ,
@Fizz@lemmy.nz avatar

At the moment federation between platforms is not useful. The only advantage is federation between Instances. I’ve used my sister at a test for what the average woman would think about it.

Aspects she thinks is cool are that it’s owned by people and designed for people, that its left leaning and inclusive.

Aspects she doesn’t care about are privacy, lack of ads, federation between instances, federation between platforms.

Aspects she doesn’t like are her friends aren’t there, none of the accounts she like are there, no recommendation algorithm. She also hates the name fediverse.

I think that we need to stop being boomers clutching our chronological feed and word of mouth discovery and embrace algorithms. That’s not to say we can have chronological feeds it’s just that we should include and option and serve some form of content recommendations.

I also think threads will be a major player in drawing people in. Its easier to convince people who use Instagram to switch from Twitter to threads than Twitter to Mastodon. Once they’re on threads they can start being a part of the fediverse and then eventually they might decide to try out one of the instances.

veeesix ,
@veeesix@lemmy.ca avatar

I guess this ties into marketing, but I think rebranding the “fediverse” as the “social web” would be a good start. It has a broad neutral tone that I think is easier for regular people to latch on to.

Boozilla ,
@Boozilla@lemmy.world avatar

More people would be great, especially for niche communities.

I don’t see #2 as that big of a problem. Do we want people who won’t expend any effort to join? I guess everyone sees the line between accessible and “dumbed down” a little bit differently. I’m not saying #2 is great. I recognize it is an obstacle. But it’s also kind of the point of Lemmy…in the sense that this is not a monolithic corporate one-size-fits-all kind of endeavor. In a way, the obstacle also serves as a teaching moment, if you will, of how this thing even works.

Item 4 seems a bit chicken-and-egg to me. But my guess is, not being able to find those communities isn’t nearly as big of a problem as those communities not having any content / participants. I can see the argument that one causes the other, but I haven’t found it very challenging to find those empty places. It’s just not much fun to hang out there by yourself.

TheRealCharlesEames ,

With better design and better branding. These poorly illustrated mouse lookin icons are not helping us in any way.

Zak ,
@Zak@lemmy.world avatar

There are some loud voices in the fediverse who don’t want it to be very welcoming. Here are a couple examples:

Threads defederation - what could onboard people to the fediverse faster than a giant platform run by Facebook joining? Yes, I hate Facebook as much as everyone else here, but they’re making an offramp for their users and half the fediverse wants to close that off?

Overbearing enforcement of norms - yes, it’s good if people put alt text on their images and content warnings on stuff lots of people find upsetting. It’s harmful to hassle people about it until they leave.

I think people who a small network with strong social norms are better off on servers that are selective about what they federate with to ensure stricter adherence to the preferences of their users. One of the great things about federated systems is that users can pick a place that’s run in a way that works for them.

criitz ,

You make good points, but I still think nothing good can come of playing ball with Facebook. I dont trust them

Zak ,
@Zak@lemmy.world avatar

You should not trust them.

I don’t think a Mastodon server attempting to attract a mainstream audience should block them though, at least not at this point. We have a chance to welcome millions of people who wouldn’t have even heard of the fediverse otherwise.

Couldbealeotard ,
@Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world avatar

If threads is incorporated into the larger fediverse, sure you’ll get a bump in dau, but threads will eventually dominate the user base. Then if they devide to cut ties with Lemmy sites, the fediverse basically loses 90% of engagement overnight.

Zak ,
@Zak@lemmy.world avatar

Threads users are much more likely to interact with other microblog software like Mastodon than with Lemmy. It might be possible to post from Threads to Lemmy now by tagging a community much like Mastodon, but I have never seen it done. Lemmy.world does not block threads.net.

Couldbealeotard ,
@Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world avatar

Sure. Substitute “Lemmy” for whatever fediverse service it is mingling with.

breakfastmtn ,
@breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca avatar

To do that in the short term, the Fediverse probably just needs more money. The competitors have a fuckload of it and can introduce features way faster because of it. I think Mastodon’s been “exploring/planning” quote posts for like 18 months and haven’t even begun working on it. I’d love to have user-controllable, optional algorithmic feeds in Mastodon (not replacing the main reverse-chron feed) but I can’t imagine it existing in less than 5 years.

Mods cracking down on the plague of ‘polite’ harassment (ex. passive-aggressive FYIs about CWs) wouldn’t hurt. It’s not as bad as it used to be but it’s chased a ton of people away.

I think in the long term the Fediverse has an advantage. The only real goal Fediverse services have is to get better for users. At some point, Bluesky and Threads will have to make money or die. I don’t think they have a way to do that without damaging the user experience.

gregor ,

Bluesky is FOSS tho…

dch82 OP ,

what are you talking about? bluesky isn’t open source, the protocol is, and it reeks of embrace, extend, extinguish by branding itself as an open network

Tywele ,

How can it be EEE if it’s their own protocol?

Also there is much more open source from Bluesky: github.com/bluesky-social

dch82 OP ,

I don’t actually mean it’s EEE but that whatever they are doing feels similar; besides, with one big server controlled by a corporation in the centre of their ecosystem, they could “defederate” any rising AT-compatible competitor servers out of existence.

They might not now, but don’t ever trust a company to not do this.

Tywele ,

What would be the point of putting in the effort to make Bluesky or other ATProtocol apps selfhostable if they didn’t want people to do that? Doesn’t make any sense

dch82 OP ,

The danger (as they can see) are not selfhosters, but larger competitive instances. They don’t allow AT servers of over 10 users and 1500 events a hour. This is clearly targeted to prevent large-scale instances (fediverse style) from being created.

How many bluesky users actually selfhost?

Tywele ,

As your link states these are just early access limitations.

5teverin0 ,

I have to say, as something if a social media virgin, I am puzzled by #4. I have never been a Facebook, Instagram or Twitter user. Previous to getting into the Fediverse, the only platform I engaged with that could be considered social media was Reddit, and I left that behind because of the whole brewhaha over third-party clients.

Since finding my way here, I have become an enthusiastic user of Mastodon, Pixelfed and Lemmy. I could not have imagined that it would be easier to acclimate myself and i have not encountered any barriers to entry, or at least I have not recognized any.

Is my experience atypical?

isaac ,
@isaac@lakora.us avatar

I'd like less focus on the network and more on individual servers, with their own names, policies, and reputations. Then users aren't thinking about whether to join one huge network - they're thinking about whether that server is the kind of place they want to be. (https://wandering.shop is a good example of an instance that is explicitly going for certain vibes.)

It would allow individual pre-existing communities to create their own spaces, ones which would prioritize those communities' experiences and needs over their connection to the rest of the fediverse. I'm imagining something like Dreamwidth or Fur Affinity or the many old-fashioned forums out there, just with the ability to follow users or navigate to topics on other instances if you know their names or URLs. I'm really not worried about discoverability outside the instance - to me, the instance is the platform, and anything outside of it is just an additional thing I can get to if I want it.

That being said, I think this approach is probably incompatible with trying to create a general-purpose social media site that also attracts a large number of users, at least not without a hefty marketing budget.

@dch82 @fediverse

Bishma ,
@Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

I’ve had more than one person tell me they don’t think microblogging is worth any learning curve whatsoever. They’d rather not use anything than have a single conversation about federation or feed building.

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