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viking ,
@viking@infosec.pub avatar

Without context, that comment sounds ok to me?

Quill7513 ,

Okay. I’ll remember you’re a transphobe for later.

You know trans people as oppressed people are allies against our oppressors, right? Not granting them personhood benefits the bourgeoisie

j4k3 , (edited )
@j4k3@lemmy.world avatar

You’re not contextualizing reasonably here. The bourgeoisie in his context meaning, the capitalist class. It is just a comment about how it has tilted to fashionable to support LGBT. That is a reasonable statement. Participation in events is a controversial subject for many. Personally I believe gendered sports should be entirely eliminated in favor of singular combined competition of humans, but I’m a giant dude that loves cycling, where a little woman could have a real advantage over someone like me. I find sports that lack such diverse nuance somewhat outdated.

Many might not see the two party system of the USA as what it presents itself as internally. It is not hard to say, this is a one party system that wears two masks and be entirely uninterested in which clown color mask faces forward at the moment.

I see indifference. I see neutrality. I don’t see two sides of a conversation with transparency that qualifies the accusation friend. Feel free to post with transparency though.

jeffw ,
@jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

Maybe you need the context of all the transphobic shit that’s happened lately, like the Olympics boxing stuff? Idk, it still seems transphobic without context. No clue who this guy is though

Quill7513 ,

Lead Lemmy dev

Zaktor ,

The context is they’re positively stating the “men in women’s sports” part of that exchange.

lemmy.ca/comment/10767763

xnx OP ,

Here’s the context lemmy.ca/comment/10767763

Varyk , (edited )

Bourgeoisie means the middle class, it’s frustrating that term has become incorrectly popularized as “those in power” or “the upper crust”.

db0 ,
@db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Not quite. Bourgeois were the merchant class which was the middle one during feudal times. But now they have become the ruling class and the term has started changing in meaning, but the old use still Is valid

Varyk ,

I’ve heard the argument, but we already have more accurate terms like “capitalist”.

I’m not saying people are going to stop using those terms, I just find personally find it silly.

It’s like calling a truck a bicycle, and then having to explain every time that you understand a truck isn’t really a “bicycle” but you have to call it a “bicycle” because everybody else calls it a bicycle.

db0 ,
@db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Marxists tend to get stuck in definitions that were used in Marx’s time, so I always try to interpret things in that way as well when talking to one to see if it makes sense and avoid misunderstandings. I prefer to talk about the actual issues than to bicker about definitions

Varyk ,

I get that.

I feel like if it’s small enough that there’s no ambiguity about what you’re talking about and you can move past it, that’s the way to go.

I feel like a lot of the time though, people are using different definitions consistently specifically to evoke certain context clues in an efforts to avoid defining exactly how relevant their comment is to the issue ostensibly being presented.

So in a real-life c Toyota onversation, I’ll usually clarify what they mean first, and if it’s close enough to what we were talking about, we move on and keep talking.

Often with internet comments, I receive “no, I only mean this phrase or word, this is an equally valid definition”, that means that we aren’t even talking about the same thing and there’s no point in pursuing the matter since they’re focused on putting on a performance for dinner ulterior motive instead of making a point.

Goalposts and all that

UraniumBlazer ,

I think they’re responding to a transphobic comment and not being transphobic themselves. I think they’re addressing a far left, socially conservative conspiracy of saying “trans people r bourgeoisie inventions for culture wars to distract the public from the class war”. This person is saying that this is a far fetched idea.

I’m correct in understanding this, right?

Quill7513 ,

Gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. You are not understanding right.

maegul ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

Still not clear on what’s so trans phobic here (having read the context, which is a private message TBC).

It seems like they’re saying that major coordinated transphobic misinformation from the bourgeoisie is unlikely given that there’s also clear pro-trans activity. Whixh is superficial IMO as such doesn’t discount multiple activities but it certainly isn’t defunct logic I’d say, where there are clearly transphobes and plenty of transphobic energy in mainstream culture at the moment.

But I don’t think they’re saying transphobia isn’t a problem. The first rule of the instance they admin is against transphobia, for example. It seems to me all they’re saying is that it isn’t a major mission by the bourgeoisie. Which compared to making corporations and capitalism happy is maybe not unfair.

vzq , (edited )

Oh man. That’s some sick shit. He had obviously been saving up this speech, waiting for an occasion to spring it on some unsuspecting poster.

UraniumBlazer ,

Oof. Tankies rlly r weird, huh

Beaver ,
@Beaver@lemmy.ca avatar

That’s not the situation at all.

saltesc ,

Next time someone asks me what Lemmy’s like, I’ll just refer them to this post.

“And see? That’s my comment down here with the gif.”

https://c.tenor.com/_QQbHwS-MfsAAAAC/tenor.gif

maegul ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

Honestly seems dumb to me. The vast majority of lemmy is not like this at all. It all depends on what you subscribe to.

That there’s always some background radiation of Fedi drama … yea I’d agree with you on that … sad to see TBH. IMO, some just want to create drama and get tribal without actually doing anything positive.

saltesc ,

A rant on social issues, a spin on development, and a nonchalant passive-aggressieness… Nah, that’s a lot of Lemmy. If the profile pic was a fursona, that’d be 💋👌

Hell, just look at these comments lol. You’re in denial or you’ve gotten good at ignoring it.

maegul ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

You’re in denial or you’ve gotten good at ignoring it.

Maybe. I’m plugged into my fair share of Fedi drama around the fediverse I’d say.

A big difference I suspect is between those who scroll All and those who rely on subscribing.

Otherwise, I don’t think this is a lemmy thing, it’s a fediverse thing. Even BlueSky. A sad trait amongst people has been exposed by alternative social … people are meaner to open source voluntary devs than big corp extractive owners.

Elevator7009 ,

I agree very much about Subscribing vs. All.

I hear about the lemmy.ml drama on Fediverse but my actual experience is no drama and I do not 100% know what is happening.

I also put my head in the sand and only look at my Subscribed, which includes zero politics or "this company did this awful thing"-style depressing news as I'm oversensitive and too prone to doomscrolling. I stay informed somewhere else, not on the Fediverse where people can put so many understandably upset comments that encourage me to doomscroll. And I'd imagine those types of posts, which I know to be prevalent on Local or All, attract comments from people with strong political views, which is probably part of the lemmy.ml drama. I could probably block all the politics posts with a couple community blocks, but not the miseryposting (understandable, people want to vent or post an on-topic news article, I just cannot handle it personally without doomscrolling more things like it) that attracts "and this problem was caused because of [insert politics here]" replies—so many communities are appropriate places to post news that happens to be sad, or a meme about how much your life sucks.

Blaze ,

Same approach here

Achyu , (edited )

The bourgeoisie would only care about profits and maintaining their power, right? They’d be both pro-lgbtqia+ and anti-lgbtqia+ if it gets them profit and/or pushes attention away from their misuse of power.
Like selling Che Geuvara T-shirts, while running propaganda against him.

Or are they seeing transphobia as mainly a reaction of religion/conservativeness? Even then a part of the bourgeoisie would try to profit off them, right?

Or did they respond as such because they saw the bait-y bourgeoisie remark(there are screenshots of the convo in the comments there)?

Would be good to see their response other than a screenshot of one reply in their private message convo.

maegul ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

Yea I think this is the context of their comment. Compared to buttressing capitalism, being pro or against trans people is neither here nor there as far as major coordinated missions from the bourgeoisie (or mainstream or whatever).

That they seem to think the boxer in question was biological make is likely off/inaccurate AFAICT, but that’s a moving story and not following it closely is no major issue I’d say.

Some insensitive or inappropriate language is going on here maybe. But I wouldn’t know and would want to defer to trans people to guide any understanding.

s08nlql9 ,

I thought you mistyped PixelFed lol. Good to see there’s another Lemmy clone like sublinks.

maegul , (edited )
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

So, for context

  • this is one of admins of lemmy . ml.
  • that instance’s first rule is

No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia.

  • This person is also one of the core devs of lemmy

Because, IMO, fedi drama is almost always overstated and overblown, especially when it comes to specific “incidents” … because we’ve gotten addicted to social media drama/rage …

I’ll provide my own impression without any context, pretending I’m a relevant moderator

  • it seems they’re challenging the notion that the same culture can be both pro-trans and anti-trans at the same time.
  • which seems superficial unless it’s about a specific incident
  • they seem to think that the Olympic boxer that’s caused an incident is actually born biologically male but is a trans female, and cite as much as proof that the west is not wholly anti-trans
  • my own impression is that the boxer being biologically male is mostly rumour and accusation, but I’m not close to the story at all and can understand how someone not following the olympics would conclude that they’re trans
  • without context I’m not sure I could conclude whether this is transphobic, at all actually.
  • Probably misinformed, but I’m also not informed on that issue, which also seems to be a moving “story”.
  • The user’s perspective is also relevant here, where being a known communist, they’re likely to think anything the west does is flawed and always boils down to class issues.
  • so given that it’s a sensitive topic, I’d follow up the comment with an attempt to frame the sensitivity of the issue and ask the author to consider editing their comment or reconsidering their stance just to flag the potentially transphobic reading of the comment.

Here’s the killer though … this seems like it’s a private message in response to a query … in which case I’m not sure there’s any moderation to be done and without more I’m not convinced this transphobic at all.

MxRemy ,

Woww wtf!!

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