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onlinepersona ,

https://media1.tenor.com/images/f348bddbc249a4ca4fc13dc2ed27bf39/tenor.gif?itemid=5314701

So many things I’d have to look up to understand what’s going on and why this is supposedly transphobic.

What bothers me more is private discussions being aired publicly.

Anti Commercial-AI license

colforge ,

“Aww we can’t say hateful things in DMs without worrying about it still getting out.” 😭😭😭😭

onlinepersona ,

If you don’t believe in privacy, then I don’t think we have anything to talk about.

Anti Commercial-AI license

colforge ,

If you don’t understand that anyone you have a conversation with can and will tell other people then I don’t know how you tie your shoes.

Quill7513 ,

Privacy isn’t the right to say anything digitally to anyone without consequence. Privacy is the right that it has to be someone involved in the situation who discloses conversations and not a third party. But I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that someone who thinks attaching a link to the creative commons license to all their comments does anything to stop an AI from digesting their comments wouldn’t understand what the fight for digital privacy represents

onlinepersona ,

Nothing of what you said even matches the definition of privacy. Good job on getting that wrong and not understanding anything about licenses nor computing 👏

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9BAkE1PIxPk/maxresdefault.jpg

Anti Commercial-AI license

Taleya ,

A participant in the conversation chose to share, so your entire argument is bullshit

onlinepersona ,

OK, so you’d be fine with everything you said in private being recorded and then shared with the world? Are you confident you’ve never said anything that’s offensive to anybody? You don’t harbor any opinions you’d only share in private? No information you’d rather keep private? “As long as a participant in the conversation shared it, it’s fair game”, right?

Anti Commercial-AI license

Taleya ,

False equivalence.

No one’s posting everything that everyone’s said. And if i had an opinion i wanted kept private i’d keep it fucking private

He chose to express a contentious, offensive opinion to another party… in a written form on a electronic medium - THE single most insecure easily shared thing imaginable. And not only that, from the looks of it did so when it wasn’t even within the topic of conversation. Don’t act fucking shocked pikachu when that shit leaks out

dramaticcat ,

Anti Commercial-AI license

Oof yikes you’re a evil transphone. Scraping your profile to train it into a large LLM btw

onlinepersona ,

I say “privacy matters” and that makes me “a [sik] evil transphone [sik]”. This is why people don’t take you seriously. “You’re either with us or you’re against us”. Tribal thinking, just like the MAGA crowd.

Anti Commercial-AI license

MxRemy ,

Woww wtf!!

Achyu , (edited )

The bourgeoisie would only care about profits and maintaining their power, right? They’d be both pro-lgbtqia+ and anti-lgbtqia+ if it gets them profit and/or pushes attention away from their misuse of power.
Like selling Che Geuvara T-shirts, while running propaganda against him.

Or are they seeing transphobia as mainly a reaction of religion/conservativeness? Even then a part of the bourgeoisie would try to profit off them, right?

Or did they respond as such because they saw the bait-y bourgeoisie remark(there are screenshots of the convo in the comments there)?

Would be good to see their response other than a screenshot of one reply in their private message convo.

maegul ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

Yea I think this is the context of their comment. Compared to buttressing capitalism, being pro or against trans people is neither here nor there as far as major coordinated missions from the bourgeoisie (or mainstream or whatever).

That they seem to think the boxer in question was biological make is likely off/inaccurate AFAICT, but that’s a moving story and not following it closely is no major issue I’d say.

Some insensitive or inappropriate language is going on here maybe. But I wouldn’t know and would want to defer to trans people to guide any understanding.

maegul , (edited )
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

So, for context

  • this is one of admins of lemmy . ml.
  • that instance’s first rule is

No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia.

  • This person is also one of the core devs of lemmy

Because, IMO, fedi drama is almost always overstated and overblown, especially when it comes to specific “incidents” … because we’ve gotten addicted to social media drama/rage …

I’ll provide my own impression without any context, pretending I’m a relevant moderator

  • it seems they’re challenging the notion that the same culture can be both pro-trans and anti-trans at the same time.
  • which seems superficial unless it’s about a specific incident
  • they seem to think that the Olympic boxer that’s caused an incident is actually born biologically male but is a trans female, and cite as much as proof that the west is not wholly anti-trans
  • my own impression is that the boxer being biologically male is mostly rumour and accusation, but I’m not close to the story at all and can understand how someone not following the olympics would conclude that they’re trans
  • without context I’m not sure I could conclude whether this is transphobic, at all actually.
  • Probably misinformed, but I’m also not informed on that issue, which also seems to be a moving “story”.
  • The user’s perspective is also relevant here, where being a known communist, they’re likely to think anything the west does is flawed and always boils down to class issues.
  • so given that it’s a sensitive topic, I’d follow up the comment with an attempt to frame the sensitivity of the issue and ask the author to consider editing their comment or reconsidering their stance just to flag the potentially transphobic reading of the comment.

Here’s the killer though … this seems like it’s a private message in response to a query … in which case I’m not sure there’s any moderation to be done and without more I’m not convinced this transphobic at all.

cupcakezealot ,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

that postmessage from nutomic is a classic demonstration of the horseshoe theory.

saltesc ,

Next time someone asks me what Lemmy’s like, I’ll just refer them to this post.

“And see? That’s my comment down here with the gif.”

https://c.tenor.com/_QQbHwS-MfsAAAAC/tenor.gif

maegul ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

Honestly seems dumb to me. The vast majority of lemmy is not like this at all. It all depends on what you subscribe to.

That there’s always some background radiation of Fedi drama … yea I’d agree with you on that … sad to see TBH. IMO, some just want to create drama and get tribal without actually doing anything positive.

saltesc ,

A rant on social issues, a spin on development, and a nonchalant passive-aggressieness… Nah, that’s a lot of Lemmy. If the profile pic was a fursona, that’d be 💋👌

Hell, just look at these comments lol. You’re in denial or you’ve gotten good at ignoring it.

maegul ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

You’re in denial or you’ve gotten good at ignoring it.

Maybe. I’m plugged into my fair share of Fedi drama around the fediverse I’d say.

A big difference I suspect is between those who scroll All and those who rely on subscribing.

Otherwise, I don’t think this is a lemmy thing, it’s a fediverse thing. Even BlueSky. A sad trait amongst people has been exposed by alternative social … people are meaner to open source voluntary devs than big corp extractive owners.

Elevator7009 ,

I agree very much about Subscribing vs. All.

I hear about the lemmy.ml drama on Fediverse but my actual experience is no drama and I do not 100% know what is happening.

I also put my head in the sand and only look at my Subscribed, which includes zero politics or "this company did this awful thing"-style depressing news as I'm oversensitive and too prone to doomscrolling. I stay informed somewhere else, not on the Fediverse where people can put so many understandably upset comments that encourage me to doomscroll. And I'd imagine those types of posts, which I know to be prevalent on Local or All, attract comments from people with strong political views, which is probably part of the lemmy.ml drama. I could probably block all the politics posts with a couple community blocks, but not the miseryposting (understandable, people want to vent or post an on-topic news article, I just cannot handle it personally without doomscrolling more things like it) that attracts "and this problem was caused because of [insert politics here]" replies—so many communities are appropriate places to post news that happens to be sad, or a meme about how much your life sucks.

Blaze ,

Same approach here

Varyk , (edited )

Bourgeoisie means the middle class, it’s frustrating that term has become incorrectly popularized as “those in power” or “the upper crust”.

db0 ,
@db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Not quite. Bourgeois were the merchant class which was the middle one during feudal times. But now they have become the ruling class and the term has started changing in meaning, but the old use still Is valid

Varyk ,

I’ve heard the argument, but we already have more accurate terms like “capitalist”.

I’m not saying people are going to stop using those terms, I just find personally find it silly.

It’s like calling a truck a bicycle, and then having to explain every time that you understand a truck isn’t really a “bicycle” but you have to call it a “bicycle” because everybody else calls it a bicycle.

db0 ,
@db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Marxists tend to get stuck in definitions that were used in Marx’s time, so I always try to interpret things in that way as well when talking to one to see if it makes sense and avoid misunderstandings. I prefer to talk about the actual issues than to bicker about definitions

Varyk ,

I get that.

I feel like if it’s small enough that there’s no ambiguity about what you’re talking about and you can move past it, that’s the way to go.

I feel like a lot of the time though, people are using different definitions consistently specifically to evoke certain context clues in an efforts to avoid defining exactly how relevant their comment is to the issue ostensibly being presented.

So in a real-life c Toyota onversation, I’ll usually clarify what they mean first, and if it’s close enough to what we were talking about, we move on and keep talking.

Often with internet comments, I receive “no, I only mean this phrase or word, this is an equally valid definition”, that means that we aren’t even talking about the same thing and there’s no point in pursuing the matter since they’re focused on putting on a performance for dinner ulterior motive instead of making a point.

Goalposts and all that

spiderman ,

what if they are turned out to be like this or hate other set of people? lemmy by design is defederated so even if the devs are like this, you can just simply call out them or leave their lemmy server lol. i am sure there are trans friendly lemmy servers out here.

as long as lemmy by design is against any sorta people, you dont have to boycott it.

xnx OP ,

Yeah lets ignore the lead dev’s opinions on stuff its not like they have power over the project and a big number of users on their server.

Its ironic you say this from the ani.social instance which was previously defederated from ml because the lead devs thinks all anime is degenerate or something like that and it ruined the anime community since ani.social was still too small

spiderman ,

Like I said in my earlier comment, if the devs make changes in lemmy which by design discriminates any sorta people, yeah people should be leaving lemmy. Twitter just shoves and boosts hate and polically biased posts (favoring elon, the app’s ceo). Lemmy devs are just extreme leftists (tankies in lemmy’s language), but it doesn’t push or shove their views onto me or anyone (in my knowledge).

Its ironic you say this from the ani.social instance which was previously defederated from ml because the lead devs thinks all anime is degenerate or something like that and it ruined the anime community since ani.social was still too small

lemmy.ml defederated with us, it was just one instance. it is unfair and not justified but again, I dont miss much because of that.

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