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PapaStevesy ,

However she pronounces it.

Isoprenoid ,

Right right right

and that would be … ?

Oh, I found the video on her Youtube channel literally addressing this question back in 2016:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVGfzbP7WBY

Undearius ,
@Undearius@lemmy.ca avatar

Comma-luh

PapaStevesy ,

and that would be … ?

…the correct pronunciation.

Isoprenoid ,

Did you read the rest of my post? You can’t say “correctly pronounce it”, and then not give instruction. That doesn’t help anyone.

PapaStevesy ,

If the video specifically made to teach you how to pronounce her name didn’t help, what makes you think I can?

null ,

You didn’t link to that video.

PapaStevesy ,

I never said I did.

null ,

You referred to it retroactively.

PapaStevesy ,

Yes, because to refer to it in any other way would have required precognition, which I unfortunately lack. My bad?

null ,

That’s… exactly the point…

PapaStevesy ,

That I don’t have precognition? Ok good, glad I could help you make that point! In the future, you can just assume everyone you meet lacks precognition, because it’s not real. I know that sounds almost like it’s own form of precognition, but it’s not, it’s just good reasoning.

null ,

Nope, not that.

PapaStevesy ,

Oh, ok good!

null ,

Nope.

PapaStevesy ,

That’s subjective. It’s good for me!

null ,

Incorrect.

PapaStevesy ,

Heuristic.

null ,

False.

PapaStevesy ,

👄

Isoprenoid ,

Your original post tells us to pronounce it the way she says it, but doesn’t actually show us how she says it.

How did you expect us to pronounce it correctly if we haven’t heard her say it?

PapaStevesy ,

Your original post tells us to pronounce it the way she says it, but doesn’t actually show us how she says it.

Because I’m not her. You figured it out and found a video on your own, you clearly didn’t need me. Why would I know better than her how to pronounce it?

How did you expect us to pronounce it correctly if we haven’t heard her say it?

I didn’t. I presumed that if someone cared enough, they would find an appropriate video; that presumption was proven correct. But I never expected anyone to do anything, certainly not to get so incredibly butt-hurt by mild sarcasm.

Wilzax , (edited )

KAH-muh-luh HAER-is

Kamala (/ˈkɑːmələ/) Harris (/ˈhærɪs/)

Nemoder ,

I think it’s pronounced “Madam President”

404 ,

So say we all.

solarvector ,

Was wondering earlier, why not just President? Why add the “madam”?

thesporkeffect ,

As opposed to “Mr President” which seems common enough

Nemoder ,

It’s just a slightly more formal sounding title. This answer on stackexchange goes through some of the history on why alternatives aren’t used.

sarchar ,

Ga-ma-la

emergencyfood ,

The Indian (Sanskrit) name is pronounced ka-ma-laa (meaning lotus), with no stress, and no gap in between the syllables. The first two 'a’s are pronounced like the ‘u’ in rum, while the last is the same sound but longer (so like the ‘a’ in calm).

The US Presidential candidate’s name is pronounced the way she likes, which in this case is closer to ko-ma-laa.

funkless_eck ,

Every word has stress. You probably mean the first phoneme is stressed. And the “rum” sound you’re looking for is called the “schwa”

emergencyfood ,

Every word has stress.

In most Indian languages, most words are unstressed. There is a distinction between long and short syllables, but that comes from vowel length, not stress. A few words (like him-AA-la-ya) do have stress, but this is the exception and usually happens due to conjugation.

You probably mean the first phoneme is stressed.

No, kamala is unstressed.

And the “rum” sound you’re looking for is called the “schwa”

Yes.

Paraneoptera ,

Not in classical Sanskrit. Vedic Sanskrit had pitch accent, which had been lost by the classical Sanskrit era. English has stress accent. But many languages do not have stress accent, and either have pitch accent or syllables are not accented at all.

BilboBargains ,

Car-mullah

memfree ,
@memfree@lemmy.ml avatar

Comma-la (as she tells us to pronounce it), or even Com’la (as it is traditionally pronounced)

magnetosphere ,
@magnetosphere@fedia.io avatar

Thank you for this. I’ve heard her name mispronounced so often that I genuinely thought kah-MALL-uh was correct. Whoops! Comma-la it is!

memfree ,
@memfree@lemmy.ml avatar

Happy to help!

Oh, I shoulda linked to a first-hand source where she herself wrote “comma-la” as the pronunciation (no particular accent on syllables). It is in her book, and also towards the bottom of this piece has that excerpts from her book: abcnews.go.com/Politics/…/story?id=60234101

SaltySalamander ,

kah-MALL-uh

The right mispronounces it that way intentionally.

magnetosphere ,
@magnetosphere@fedia.io avatar

As I’ve heard. Now we know better than to perpetuate it!

MHLoppy ,
@MHLoppy@fedia.io avatar

"Comma-la" unfortunately doesn't help much for people without US accents lol (though of course people in the US are who the question and answer are most relevant to). On first reading -- without the accent or something close to it -- it implies "kom-uh-luh", whereas with the accent it implies something more like "kah-muh-luh", just based on how people pronounce "comma" differently.

Annoyed_Crabby ,

Commala? As in the pokemon Komala?

https://img.pokemondb.net/artwork/large/komala.jpg

So it really is Komala Harris vs Trumpshoos

https://monyet.cc/pictrs/image/e2bebc58-a13d-4706-80bc-e63960bbda7e.jpeg

otp ,

Isn’t the Pokemon’s name pronounced like coma + koala? Coma and comma are different.

Annoyed_Crabby ,

🤷I’ve been pronouncing it as Ko-Ma-La without the emphasise of ow. I appreciate this post though, i’ve seen so many asian name being butchered by english speaking country it become annoying.

otp ,

Ko-Ma-La without the emphasise of ow.

I’m not sure I follow. Coma would probably be “ko-ma”, like I’d suggested, whereas comma is something like “cah-ma”…but I’m not sure where the “ow” comes in

Miaou ,

It’s funny because the way you spelt it sounds like the first “don’t” of the video you linked. Americans in general seem to make a point of pronouncing things their way rather than how they should be. I don’t think it’s racism as much as it is laziness.

memfree ,
@memfree@lemmy.ml avatar

their way rather than how they should be.

Every language has different sounds. It has long been understood that languages will translate words/names into versions they can actually hear and pronounce. Sadly, some people mock or demean people who try to speak a non-native language and make errors in it. In the U.S. it used to be fairly common to mock Asians coming from a language with only one liquid consonant sound for their inability to differentiate between ‘r’ and ‘l’ sounds.

I know I can’t hear the difference in various Russian language vowels and while I can hear tones, I don’t know how I’d explain their pronunciation in an Anglicized name – or if it would be relevant.

While I appreciate that regional accents mean that non-U.S. citizens might not say “comma” the way it is heard in the U.S., I do expect that if a U.S. citizen tells me to pronounce their own name in a U.S. manner, then that is how it “should be” pronounced.

MerchantsOfMisery ,

“Kahm-lah”.

Taalnazi ,

I say it as [ˈka.ma.la].

hddsx ,

Anyone have the IPA pronunciation?

velox_vulnus , (edited )

/kəmələ/ is the sound. Since she’s half-Dravidian, we don’t do schwa deletion over here.

Edit: /kəmələ/, not /kə.mə.lə/

TheOctonaut ,

My friend, Americans do not care about how words are pronounced in the original language/location.

tyler ,

Some of us do.

Wilzax ,

It’s a name, not a word.

TheOctonaut ,

Proper nouns are, in fact, words.

Man they really don’t teach you guys basic English.

Wilzax ,

Proper nouns are names. Birmingham, AL and Birmingham, UK have different pronunciations

TheOctonaut ,

Proper nouns are names.

… Yes? And for the full points, what is a noun?

Wilzax ,

A noun is a part of speech representing an object that can be described.

Wilzax , (edited )

That’s not how she pronounces her name, so it’s not her name.

The Vice president of the United States is named Kamala (/ˈkɑːmələ/) Harris (/ˈhærɪs/)

velox_vulnus , (edited )

To somehow suggest that the sound of अ (ə) becomes आ (ɑː) is ridiculous. It’s not कामला (jaundice, billrubin), it’s कमला (lotus, Goddess Lakshmi). Use an IPA reader to check the sound you’ve provided, versus mine.

Wilzax ,

Her name isn’t कमला, it’s Kamala. It’s written in the latin alphabet on her American birth certificate. She pronounces her own name as ˈkɑːmələ. It doesn’t matter what the similar-sounding common name from a different country used by different people is. Her name is Kamala. ˈkɑːmələ.

velox_vulnus , (edited )

It’s written in the latin alphabet on her American birth certificate

So is mine and every citizen born in India, a non-English country. Your point being that people get to decide how to butcher other’s name because it was checks character written in Latin?

She pronounces her own name as ˈkɑːmələ.

PoC immigrants are forced to anglicize their names. Koreans and Chinese folks are forced to have a alternative English name. Indians are forced to deal with butchered pronounciations, or pick a shorter nickname. But hey, thanks for being a part of the problem.

It doesn’t matter what the similar-sounding common name from a different country used by different people is.

It does, and this behaviour speaks volume about how much you respect other people and their culture. John isn’t pronounced as Yohn in non-English speaking areas, right?

Wilzax ,

First of all, If we anglicized her name, we would get 'kəmɑːlə, not ˈkɑːmələ, so that argument makes no sense. English has a tendancy to stress the second to last syllable of a name or word, and shift the vowel there accordingly. I will admit that you’re right in that the birth certificate thing isn’t the best example of what determines a name. Trans people, or anyone else who wishes to change their name from what their parents wrote at birth, are completely valid in their new name. But the point I was making is that she hasn’t embraced the Devanagari spelling of her name, the way she has the Latin spelling. She’s chosen a pronunciation of that spelling for herself, and been vocal about how she wants it said. Respect it, or shut up.

Second, she’s not an immigrant. She was born in the US and is an American citizen by birth, which is (unfortunately) a requirement to run for president. Her name may originate from a similar sounding name from a different language, but that similar sounding name is not her name. The experiences of people who were happy with their name and were later forced to change it is a separate issue. To insist she change her name to fit your perception of what she should be called is exactly the thing you’re chastising me for doing. Which again, I’m not. I’m supporting her in the name she chooses to use.

Third, “John” is another example that actually proves why your argument is wrong. It comes from the old hebrew יְהוֹחָנָן‎. But as other cultures adopted the name and changed it to be their own over hundreds of years, small changes turned it into Ιωάννης in Greek, Johannes in Latin, Jean in French, and eventually John in modern English. Why is the same thing happening to Kamala such an issue for you?

Her name is what she says her name is, and the circumstances that led her to choose her name are MORE VALID than your opinion of what her name should be. End of discussion.

youtu.be/GVGfzbP7WBY

velox_vulnus ,

Trans people, or anyone else who wishes to change their name from what their parents wrote at birth, are completely valid in their new name.

Whataboutism to twist and call me transphobic? Why do you mention trans people here? ‘Pronouns’ and ‘pronounce’ have nothing in common.

Third, “John” is another example that actually proves why your argument is wrong. It comes from the old hebrew יְהוֹחָנָן‎. But as other cultures adopted the name and changed it to be their own over hundreds of years, small changes turned it into Ιωάννης in Greek, Johannes in Latin, Jean in French, and eventually John in modern English. Why is the same thing happening to Kamala such an issue for you?

Because that change was organic, and took hundreds of years? Are you going to conveniently ignore that?

Her name is what she says her name is

…while ignoring all the nuances, that is, her conditioning by a society that has taught her to internalize hatred towards her own identity? Attitude like that of your is the reason why second and third generation immigrants suffer from the pain of having a cultural disconnect, making them feel like an alien - being discriminated in their own country, and being a foreigner to their own culture. And now, you’re trying to gaslight a native speaker?

It does not take a genius to look at the butchered transliteration(s) - (funny how there’s no agreement on a singular pronounciation?) versus the original pronunciation on Wiktionary.

oneiros ,
@oneiros@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I truly cannot stress enough how utterly socially unacceptable it is to correct someone’s pronunciation of their own name. In this respect, names are different from other kinds of words. Please reconsider this embarrassing position of yours.

velox_vulnus , (edited )

Consider keeping this imperialist opinion to yourself. The last thing I need is someone bullying me into accepting how words from my culture and language is spoken, and how I need to accommodate to your inconveniences. It may be socially acceptable for you to make other PoCs feel all weird and uncomfortable about themselves, but you can’t bully me into this.

Wilzax , (edited )

“Imperialism is when you respect someone’s self identification” 🤡

If you pronounce it with all schwa vowels but you speak in a Hindi accent I’m sure nobody would bat an eye. As a white dude, I would probably sound more like I’m making fun of her Indian heritage if I imitated a Hindi accent to say her name as closely to how you say I should say it as possible. But in an American accent, this pronunciation is not accurate. It makes her name sound like “Cuh-muh-luh”, which sounds more like a rude nickname related to semen than an earnest attempt to preserve her name’s origin. Even ignoring my own arguments about why I want to say it the way she says it, it’s just not

Most people can’t control their voice with the precision needed to accurately preserve the original phonetics of everyone’s names EXACTLY as they should be said. They can make the sounds they need for their language and very few more. Changes in pronunciation are inevitable, not imperialist. Imperialism would be if I went to India and insisted that everyone there named Kamala pronounced their name the way my Vice President does. Unfortunately the British did basically this, but that’s not what’s happening when a willing immigrant’s child chooses for themselves what to be called.

velox_vulnus ,

Insular brain-rot specimen over here with a limited capability to understand nuances, I know it hurts your head when I have to make you empathize with PoCs, and how they’re tired of correcting people all the time to the point that they give up and pick a approximate pronounciation, but clowns like you will do their best to decide what’s right for them, and at the same time, suppress what people from the same group have to say about it. Hilarious, right?

Wilzax ,

“It’s brain-rot to call someone what they tell you to call them” 🤡

SaltySalamander ,

The last thing I need is someone bullying me into accepting how words from my culture and language is spoken, and how I need to accommodate to your inconveniences

Get fucked. We're talking about a person who has a name and has a preference to how it is pronounced. No one gives two shits or a single fuck how you feel about that.

velox_vulnus ,

A “preference” that is a farce, and was shoved on her, and many other PoC, and which they had to accept after getting tired of repeated mispronunciation, you fucking dickhead. Do I have to stress this multiple times?

SaltySalamander ,

You just want to be argumentative.

idiomaddict ,

I’m an American who lives in Germany. The name my parents chose begins with [dʒ], but I haven’t introduced or thought of myself like that in years. My name therefore begins with [j].

It’s really cool that you’re informed about the language that her name stems from, but that’s not the name she uses.

random_character_a ,
@random_character_a@lemmy.world avatar

Fun fact.

In Finnish “kamala” means “awful”.

We are gonna have endless dad jokes with this one.

Drunemeton ,
@Drunemeton@lemmy.world avatar

She does have the truly AWFUL job of being a women of color that our nation is depending on to beat one of the worst once elected, twice impeached former presidents.

davidagain ,

In British English, Trump means (1) the sound an elephant makes or (2) a fart, particularly a noisy one. If you trump your own horn it means you’re boastful and think of yourself higher than other people do.

President Trump = President Fart.
Still funny after all these years, despite the looming fascism.

NegativeLookBehind , (edited )
@NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world avatar

Cum Allah

Edit: Jeez, I was just trying to help pronounce it

crimsonpoodle ,

Careful that’s how we got the floods that one time…

Hackworth ,

Pres·i·dent /ˈprezəˌdent/

OprahsedCreature ,

Eth·nic·Clean·ser /Ð-nik klėnzr/

Hackworth ,

You’re a moron.

OprahsedCreature ,

Your father smelt of elderberries

SaltySalamander ,

Block'd

OprahsedCreature ,

😱🤣

LarkinDePark ,

Genocidaire.

cornshark ,

“Kamala”

obinice ,
@obinice@lemmy.world avatar

Why would you think it can only be pronounced with an “uh” at the end? Where did that come from?

I could be wrong about how she uses her name of course, but I would pronounce it Cam-ahl-a, nothing the hard a at the end, as in apple.

We don’t say uhpple, we say apple.

DirigibleProtein OP ,

Why would you think it can only be pronounced with an “uh” at the end? Where did that come from?

I can’t think of any words that end in the hard a (but I’m willing to learn, hence this post).

But words that end in the letter a with the “uh” sound seem to be common:

China Koala Academia Pizza Cicada

idiomaddict ,

Huzzah does (as do similar words like hurrah), but it’s hard to find a non-stressed version, except for maybe chutzpah

Ashelyn ,

I don’t think it would be correct to use the A in apple for any of the As in Kamala. It’s more of the A with an open mouth than constrained to the front. The A in calm is much closer imo

I should really be using the IPA to make my point here but I don’t know all the letters

RandomVideos ,

I pronounce it like the toki pona word “kalama”

No, i do not swap “la” and “ma”

velox_vulnus ,

Actually, this is the right pronounciation, but obviously, with the words swapped.

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