I’m no expert but I imagine that with a device like this, which will no doubt be popular amongst techie-types, there’ll be a custom ROM out for it soon enough
There’s a very grassroots Windows 10 ARM hack for the SD1, actually. It’s quirky, and lacks a LOAD of the driver blob that comes in a normal x64 install of Windows on AMD or Intel, but it can make outbound calls and run simple WinonARM apps.
Yeah lemme go buy that fire ass Linux phone thats a pocketable, foldable tablet with split displays, a pen with haptic feedback and rigid glass screens for stylus use and a great camera and has support for my office products and also isn’t totally busted half the time. Where is it? Because I legit would buy the fuck out of it
Android is literally Linux, and also you can put whatever custom rom you want on your phone. Write your own if it's that big a deal to you. Don't stick with stock Android, but if you want a customizable phone, that's your option. Microsoft and Apple don't give you the option for custom firmware. Android does.
No, it isn’t. Can you install Flatpak apps on Android? Can you plug it in a monitor and run GIMP or desktop version of Firefox? Because actual Linux phones can.
The difference is that Android phones only use Linux kernel and it is so much modified by SoC maker and OEM that by side effect it can’t run anything beside Android anymore. There are projects like PostmarketOS trying to port real (mainline) Linux on phones but it takes awful amount of work and supports like 5 phones still with no things like cameras. There are also systems like Droidian trying to strip Android to bare minimum and run Linux on top of it like an always-on-top app, but this also is only for a couple of phones.
It’s a heavily-forked version of Linux with so many changes that it’s not really Linux anymore.
Is XboxOS literally windows?
Is MacOS literally FreeBSD?
Is PlayStationOS literally FreeBSD?
Omg do MacBooks and PlayStations have the same OS?? I can play Ratchet and Clank on a MacBook???
Android does not use an up to date, or mainline Linux kernel. It gets rid of most of the GNU core utils. It doesn’t use other big parts of Linux like Wayland or X11. I can’t install random Flatpaks on my Android phone. Etc etc.
Calling Android “literally Linux” is incredibly misleading to the point of basically being a lie.
No, the alternative is an open source rom on Samsung's hardware. No Google required, at least for now. Though I do expect that to get much more difficult in the future.
The “real version”? There is no “real version” of Android. I wouldn’t pick Microsoft specifically because they don’t have a track record of supporting their phones.
If you want android you'd normally go with a phone that is supported by the main contributors /maintainers. doesn't even have to be made by google. but I think that was already pretty clear so you might just be a contrarian. please correct me if you actually had a point.
I think I made the point pretty clear… There really isn’t a phone with the “real android” and it’s best to check the company’s track record of updates. It seems like you just reworded my point while missing that I just stated the same thing.
It’s really sad how dirty most companies seem to be doing the consumers when you’ve got Apple still pushing support for 6 year old phones. At least one company sets the standard. Now, can we get a Linux device that is a clone of the Surface Duo and has security updates for 5 years? Please?
I didn’t imply anything— if you chose to infer something other than what I said, that’s on you, and the ignorance of others is not my job to correct.
If you wanna whip yourself up into a frenzy over ignorant disinformation, that’s your right, but hatefully attacking others for it is petty and childish. 
Typical misinformation. The lawsuits that worked are for Apple not informing people, not because Apple slowed down the phones. The ones that have been about the slowing down have either lost or been thrown out.
Also, your logic doesn’t make any sense. Are you saying that a slow phone is more likely to encourage someone to buy a new phone versus a phone that constantly dies at random times?
And if you wanted your phone back to full speed, all you had to do was replace your worn out battery. That seems like a dumb way to upsell someone on a phone if they can pay $100 for a new battery and have their phone back to full speed.
I actually mostly agree with you apart from one thing.
Are you saying that a slow phone is more likely to encourage someone to buy a new phone versus a phone that constantly dies at random times?
Yes. I think this could be true in a lot of cases.
Personally, if I saw that my phone was dying at 50% battery but was otherwise fine, I’d think that my phone needs a new battery, and I’d weigh up my options between taking it to a service centre or buying a new phone.
If my phone was rendered almost unusably slow, but died instead at 20%, I’d think my battery is a bit degraded, but that my phone is too slow to be useful after a battery swap anyway, and I’d jump straight to buying a new one. I wouldn’t know that the battery is what’s causing the slowness to begin with.
IMO, as long as you inform the customer, option 2 is the best. Otherwise I’d prefer option 1.
You obviously do not live in a cold country. iPhones up until version 5-6 or so (when this was introduced) was notorious for turning off at 25-30% battery if it was slightly cold outside (sub 5 degree Celsius or so). It was a horrible experience that was completely removed by clocking down processors of battery worn phones.
I’ve never heard of a person turning off the option now when we’ve got the choice either.
It’s 100% beneficial to the customer.
Though, they should’ve been clearer with what they did and added a toggle from the start. Which is why they were fined.
I’m not even an Apple fan. If Android had the product support longevity and privacy of iOS, I’d consider it. But nope, we get disposable products and an icky privacy history. I wouldn’t call Apple great in either category. AFAIK there are no smartphone manufacturers who are.
Regarding privacy on iOS, I recommend watching [this video] (www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHnBOUNxHsw). You can get more privacy on Android with some tweaking (custom ROMs, AdAway, uninstalling pre-installed bloatware, etc…). There are several ways to get more privacy, some easier than others. I know most people won’t even try. On the other hand, with iOS, you’re handing your privacy over to Apple in good faith, but you have far fewer options to take things into your own hands. People want privacy out of the box, but that often clashes with companies’ interest in making as much money as possible (simply put). Some companies use privacy as a selling point in their marketing campaign, but often it is just false advertising.
you call it "some tweaking" when in reality for 99,5% of android users it would be the same to tell them to get better performance on their cars if you just switch out the engine, do a custom paint job und replace the computer", just to have them finding out, it's not even possible because on most models the hood cannot be opened.
Indeed but this highlights a fundamental issue with phones (and all devices): because Apple can continually monetize their devices with locked-in app stores and a litany of services etc they can easily afford and are incentivised to support devices for a long time.
Device makers third-party to platform ecosystems, like Microsoft to Android (but not Windows) find it extremely difficult if not impossible to gain these sorts of long-term monetisation which incentivises maximizing profits on the sale and then immediately dropping support.
It does have an impact. Apple has all the interest in keeping devices working for as long as possible because they make money from the app store. Microsoft makes money from selling the device and its surfaces but it’s google that benefits from the play store.
I too miss using my windows phone. I loved it while I used it. I still use it sometimes as a music player. I use a windows style launcher on my android phone. I find it very convenient and productive to use.
Why the hell would anyone buy these devices when the support is so short? And I’m not even specifically talking about this foldable, rather all these devices from Google and MS? You’re basically paying good money for e-waste.
Their slogan should be “here, you throw it away for us”.
I really hate Apple for other things, but they rarely pull this kind of crap when it comes to support.
I still have my Sega Genesis that I bought on launch day and up until a year ago,it still worked. Thatsa 30+ year old device. Somewhere in my parents basement is an ancient fake Walkman. It might not work as it,but but if you changed some o-rings, chances are it would work. That’s gotta be well over 35 years old. I still have G1 Transformers when they were first released. These are all items that (for the most part), still work. And yet today, people can’t even get more than 3 years on most devices. Not because the device is broken. Rather because the device is made to have a very short lifespan on purpose. This shit makes me so damn mad.
I know Europe has flirted with the idea of life cycle product management (can’t quite remember the full name). Basically manufacturers are required to take back their products at the end of their life and dispose of them properly. These kinds of programs encourage manufacturers to make their products easier to tear down, and thus also easier to repair, but also to minimize the amount of non recyclable materials. When you put the responsibility on manufacturers to take care of these things, it is in their best interests to keep their products from turning into useless e-waste. It definitely wouldn’t solve all the problems of products having super short lives, but it could help because if something is easier to tear down, then it might be easier to maintain ans possibly upgrade.
I understand the sentiment, but the comparison with Apple and the Sega Genesis is flawed.
Microsoft has been very good at supporting backwards compatibility with other products, and Apple has EOL’d products too soon as well.
Open a 30-yr-old laptop with Microsoft Windows 3.0 and, oh surprise, it also works… just like your Sega Genesis! Plus nobody said that the Surface Duo was going to stop working. Store it away for 30 years amd turn it back on. I’m sure it will work just fine. Just don’t attempt to connect it to the Internet 18.0.
I can’t say if it’s what the person you’re responding to had in mind but I noticed Macs have shorter supported lifespans than a comparable Windows machine. Of course there’s factors like Windows being more hardware agnostic but it effectively means that today, no Mac older than 2013-2014ish/that aren’t supported by macOS Big Sur isn’t getting security updates. They do have options in terms of Windows (potentially), Linux, patched versions of newer macOS releases but for a user that’s non-technical I think that’s too soon. I was able to end my college career in 2019 by pressing my 2008 ThinkPad and Windows 10 into service. (albeit hi-res video and 3D games were naturally out of the question, it was up-to-date and got the job done - EDIT: but now that I think about it I did need patched Intel integrated graphics drivers…)
Of course, Microsoft’s ditching of so many machines with the jump to Windows 11 and putting a 2025 expiration date on many machines (without bypassing or Linux) is abhorrent too and potentially renders part of my complaint moot but I still hope the ARM Macs have longer supported lifespans but too soon to say if anything will change.
Yeah, you caught it already, but I was gonna say, however good Microsoft has been about this before is irrelevant, because going forward their intentions are very clear with how little they care for backwards compatibility. The fact we have, what, 2 more years of Windows 10 support when most people still use it and can’t update to 11 tells you all you need to know.
That would make sense apart from the ‘open a 30 year old laptop’ comment. There are plenty of 30 year old Macs about that will run on their original OS
I didn’t say 30-year-old macs wouldn’t run. As the matter of fact, that would be another example of the counter-claim that a 30-yr-old Sega Genesis can still run “while a surface duo couldn’t do the same.”
6 years + 2-3 more years of security updates is a pretty good support cycle for a phone.
Complaining that the company that provides some of (if not the best) support for their phones is pretty silly. Especially considering that Google, androids gold standard is a year three years less than that.
They’ve always been computers. They just need to do different tasks than a computer would.
The phones OS is basically a firmware with how tightly integrated it is with the hardware. VS the EFI on your PC just hands everything off to windows and then it’s up to drivers which may or may not be there after a major version update.
New Google Pixel devices have 5 years of Android version and security updates. And as someone else said, if updates end the hardware will usually continue to work if you take good care of it.
I have old Acer, Asus, HP and Toshiba laptops that still work despite being out of warranty and some are over a decade old, and I’m about to get my hands on a Thinkpad T480 that I’m hoping to upgrade to keep it for another few years.
The issue is mainly the apps. For the old laptops I mentioned for example, they have only two cores, and modern stuff like background removal in video-conferencing or playing some Netflix movie will bring their CPUs to their knees. Apps became extremely demanding without us noticing.
Same thing on phones. Frameworks based on web technologies, requiring something like Chromium WebView, are appealing to app developers because they’re extremely convenient as they help them create shiny UIs with cool effects with a few lines of code while benefiting from portability (ie the app will usually be cross-platform and work on an iPhone too). The only issue is that is usually much more demanding than a native Android app. So this trend gives us the impression that phones become slower, that manufacturers are playing some tricks on us and that we need to upgrade, whereas it’s much more complicated than that.
Dual cores can be fine if they have the necessary support for the features that the software asks for, like h.264 decoding for video calls. I worked in a charity that gave out repurporsed laptops for vulnerable communities and an 8th Gen Intel works really well for office work. Heck Zoom requests an 8th gen for said background removal.
I know several people (and not only older ones) who actively avoid updating, because it annoys them apparently.
Others don’t care, know about or value updates at all. Some will happily use outdated android versions 5 years after support was dropped, others buy new phones every 2 years anyway.
I’m not saying that’s good, but from a fuck-everything-but-money capitalist standpoint, not supporting older devices does make sense.
Outdated devices can’t run some newer apps. If yiu can’t get security updates, then some banking or online trading apps might not run. Many businesses use 2FA. I might be wrong, but if a device isn’t being updated for security then the device can’t use used for 2FA. Similar deal with using it for payment at a store or using it as your key on your newer model car.
You don’t need to convince me. Fact is, enough people don’t care. And if enough people don’t care, 2FA vendors will get more lenient so they don’t lose customers.
I’m having issues finding an article on how once installed Linux on a Surface Duo, but there’s a got page on building the kernels so I’m guessing it’s doable.
Now that updates are done, maybe all the Linux users can find them for cheap and convert them
Sadly this is just the Intel/x86 Surface. The Duo is an ARM devices and doesn’t work the same way.
It’s like one needs some patches so some hw works properly. The other one needs rewrite most of stuff to barely function. That’s why so little Linux ARM device except ones made to run it in the first place. Generally ARM devices run Linux like able to run Android, but the other way around doesn’t always hold (more like 99.99% as seen in all Android phones)
This is why I got a Nokia Lumia 1020 and used some duct tape to stick it to a Motorola Droid. I get it all: multitasking. 2 screens that fold up. Great camera. 2 SIM card slots. 2 operating systems for max compatibility. Plus, a slide-out keyboard and multiple batteries.
People ask me “Is it secure?” Shiiiiit. Come try me and we’ll see who is secure when you get knocked upside the head with it. “Is it up to date?” It’s two phones, my man. I’m up to date your girl and her friend.
I don’t think you get a lot more support than that on most Android devices. They’re generally pretty shit for continued updates, as they’d quite like you to throw away a perfectly good device the instant you’ve finished paying for it and get a shiny new one.
Samsung is the largest Android OEM in the West and they give 4 years of updates. Google does 3 major upgrades and 5 years of security patches. There’s no reason why a multibillion dollar legacy software giant can’t do the same.
To be honest I didn’t check the end of support and end of life, still it’s very short…too short for this kind of expensive device. Even if it looks very promising. I still belive it was a good try. But it failed…
Microsoft is done supporting the original Surface Duo, three years after it first launched on September 10.
The company has stated from the very start that the Surface Duo would receive just three years of OS updates, meaning today is the last day that Microsoft has to stay true to its word.
Going forward, Microsoft will no longer ship new OS updates or security patches for the original Surface Duo, meaning Android 12L is the last version of the OS it will ever officially receive.
Surface Duo only ever got two major OS updates, one shy of the average three that most high-end flagship Android devices get these days.
Microsoft hasn’t been working on new features or bug fixes for Surface Duo in months anyway, so it’s not like current Surface Duo users are going to be missing out on much outside of security patches.
Plus, with support for third-party ROMs, enthusiasts can install a custom version of Android 13/14 on their devices.
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