The way folks blindly believe the terribly done, outright amateur garbage Israeli propaganda on this instance has begun to stress me out so bad that my face hurts. I spend the majority of my time on hexbear now, they make more sense than 70% of the takes on here about Israel-Palestine.
Im sorry but the copy they showed was pristine… In a war zone, in Palestine, where people can’t get clean water…
And the terrorist had sticky notes and highlighters and never made a single dog ear, wrinkled a page or got a spec of dirt on it.
It must be the cleanest object in Gaza.
This is as believable as the 3 copies of “the sims 3” found next to the unworn swastika t-shirt was… If you believe this is real and not just poorly done propaganda I have some magic beans to sell you.
Only one side, Israel, has the ability and military firepower to carry that genocide to fruition. Hamas only has @ 20,000 members. It would need help from other Muslim militants to have a chance at genocide. The contrast in the power dynamic is what makes what Israel is doing especially egregious.
I agree that Israel needs to be held to a higher standard as a democracy(at least for now). However it’s a difficult question; when you have a neighbor that refuses to acknowledge your existence, that has walked away from the negotiation table numerous times, and that every few years attacks your country, and who used civilians as human shields; what is the solution? You can continue to the tit-for-tat in a never ending multi-generational affair or you can end things. It would be really nice if everyone could just get along. the majority of the Palestinians didn’t want this; and yet they are suffering for Hamas’ actions. The far right factions of the Israeli government are being opportunistic in the oppositions silence following the attack. I think the best we can hope for now is accountability, we need independent reporters there and some sort of UN intervention. It’s all so stupid I wish the world would come to its senses.
The solution: Change the conditions of the Palestinian people. Grant them the same rights as Israeli citizens. Allow freedom of movement in the country and abroad. Allow them employment and the ability to buy property. When they have the same rights as Israeli citizens, the impetus for Hamas will fall away. They will be vilified by Palestinians and Israelis.
How we get there is the conundrum. I agree that this needs UN intervention. But without United States support, intervention is moot. The first step is a ceasefire, which should be internationally supported immediately.
You could always just watch the video and make your own decision if you believe it shows what they claim it does.
You could even look up images of the hospital like this one: images.app.goo.gl/DT2xzdyRLvJjSvfd6That building is directly to the left of the building with “Al_Quds Hospital” in English on it. The only question left is if that’s a side entrance, or if it’s a separate building that isn’t part of the hospital itself.
Yeah all those organizations wasting time with geolocation and timing everything that comes out of war zones they keep doing it because they didn’t have the luck of sharing your genius I guess. 🤷♂️
You mean you couldn’t find on google when they shot a journalist in the head and pretend they did not till the rest of world got the evidences they wanted to hide? Guess you can’t find what you don’t want to find.
Ah yes, the time honored strategy of separating those you disagree with into the “out group” so you can dehumanize them and disregard their legitimate criticisms. Where have I heard that before I wonder 🤔
That sounds like a reasonable amount to provide, since they can provide another shipment 2h later if it actually goes to the hospital. (At full power it’d be 30 minutes, but I assume critical loads only could be powered a lot longer).
The evidence provided is weak though, and it could easily be staged. We didn’t get lucky by having Hamas publicly confirm that they indeed did it, but it’d be inline with their other statements that show utter disregard for Palestinian life.
Sure, but it’s such a small amount of fuel for a hospital that it makes no sense to even do it.
Should Hamas give them all the fuel they could use? Sure! But I’m wondering how vulnerable they’ll be if they also have no fuel to fight back against the indiscriminate killings from the IDF…
It was delivered by Jerry can, by hand from troops in the area. They coordinated the drop with the hospital and apparently Hamas. Presumably if this worked they could have arranged for a more regular supply. But that’s 2 barrels of fuel. You could run quite a bit off that.
Waiting for confirmation this actually happened because the article about the premature babies dying due to lack of power asked the doctors if Israel was willing to help to which they responded that “no, Israel isn’t responding to our requests at all, so we don’t know”.
What in the fuck would 70 gallons of fuel do for a hospital? A few hours of power? Is that supposed to be a genuine attempt at aid? Less than $200 of fuel?
I don’t know the type of fuel or generator, but I found an arbitrary model that can output 1800W, enough for 9 ICU beds. Four liters of gasoline provide 5400Wh, which means they lasts 3 hrs.
So I estimate 300 liters of gasoline could have powered 9 ICU beds for over nine days.
Oh cool, wonder how many ICU beds they have to power. I wonder what other equipment they need.
In any case that’s a pittance. I could’ve provided more personally. A country-like entity could certainly do much better, like maybe just suppling power and not bombing their power infrastructure.
The hospital needs 9000-10000 liters a day of fuel. Do you think there is a single power generator connected to the neonatal unit? How are they going to limit the consumption? It’s not really that easy and I bet most of the electricians also left the hospital… Your napkin math is also not taking into account any power losses, etc.
Plus offering 300 liters is laughable. Seriously, your car’s fuel tank is 60+ liters, so Israel offered them 5 car tanks worth of fuel. How generous and humane of them!
Someone asked what 300 L of fuel could do for a hospital, and I estimated an answer.
Nobody said it would be sufficient to power an entire hospital. It could power a full ICU, which is usually where the patients at greatest risk are found, for 2-3 days.
It doesn’t matter how many power generators are used, the energy requirements are the same. The hospital is already using power generators, so electricians are irrelevant.
You estimated an answer based on wrong input data and no expertise in the matter. You made a guess and set yourself up as “the expert that knows how much fuel it is”. Now you continue spreading misinformation. It’s not how it works, stop trying to give your opinion about things you know nothing about.
I estimated an answer based on the available data, and never cast myself as an expert.
Like any estimate, it is associated with error. But even with error, it is better than meaningless criticism like “That can’t be right”, truthiness like “a couple of hours??”, or politically motivated reasoning like “If IDF is associated with this, then it must be completely useless”.
If you want to try to make a better estimate based on better data, be my guest.
No, you took data straight from the source - you made it the fuck up. You are spreading misinformation.
No, I won’t repeat your mistake by guesstimating how much fuel does a hospital I have never seen needs on a daily basis.
No, it is not better than what you mention, because it is simply false. And a person reading your post will come to a false conclusion. So either you have an interest in spreading bullcrap, or you do it because you believe you are right. Both of which are concerning.
If you can’t estimate what a hospital requires, then why would you assume 300L of fuel is insufficient?
The original poster concluded it was insufficient by comparing it to an automobile fuel tank. Which is ridiculous. If you actually think that’s a logical comparison, then you’re just looking for someone to confirm your biases.
People supposed to work in the dark? ICU is inside the building. You going to run extension cords down the hallway? (Lol). What about a/c hard to live when temp spikes to 120f. I could go on but it’s already clear you’re going to die on this impossible hill.
Let’s not forget ICU patients tend to need blood work, radiology exams, medications, etc… you know the little things.
Tell me you are not an engineer without telling me.
Seriously, stop spreading this nonsense, as you have no idea how to calculate fuel consumption of a diesel generator. Have you heard of a parameter called power factor? Or electrical losses? Do you know how to operate a diesel generator or how to disconnect all other power consuming devices from the diesel generator?
Another food for thought for you is that this power generator is probably huge, and is not designed to consume very little fuel, meaning the power factor is low around his originally designed power output and the further away you are from it, the lower the power factor is, the greater the losses.
You said you have worked in a hospital, but answer me a question, how many times have you touched the diesel generator there or any part of the electrical system of the hospital and do you feel confident enough to do any changes on it? And be honest!
Are you assuming there is a large, central generator operating to supply the entire hospital? If that is the case, then I agree that it would be very difficult for a small fuel supply to be used effectively.
But I’m assuming that such a generator would be destroyed or otherwise not in use. And that small fuel shipments would be delivered to portable generators at critical locations (like an ICU) in order to triage power use.
As before, if you have a better estimate that includes any factors I’ve omitted, then I would love to see it. I’m simply not satisfied by previous low-effort estimates, such as comparing 300 L to an automobile fuel tank.
The truth is that we both are currently guesstimating, but you are simplifying a lot of the unknowns I am pretty sure things aren’t that easy. Plus those generators are usually handled by trained technicians who most likely left the hospital long ago.
Plus you didn’t answer my question about your knowledge of diesel generators, how many times have you operated one? And are you feeling confident that you can operate one?
Again, I’m talking about portable gasoline generators, since I doubt the hospital has a working main generator.
You don’t need a trained technician to run a portable generator. I’m perfectly capable of operating my 2000 W unit, which is currently sitting in my garage.
Otherwise, yes of course I’m estimating. A rough estimate is better than no estimate. When a better estimate becomes available, throw out the previous one.
So then why don’t you go there, pick up the fuel in an active war zone, connect the generator and connect the incubators to it. Seriously you are considerably downplaying the complexity of this. It is all good and easy when you are comfortably sitting on your couch.
Because if the statements by the IDF are true (there is little solid evidence but it’d be in line with what we know about Hamas’ behavior), there is an obstacle in the way that isn’t the IDF, too little fuel, or a technical problem.
“How are they going to limit consumption” really? Turn off breakers, pull plugs, turn off switches, have an electrician measure, whack everyone who uses power for anything but the absolutely most life critical applications with a large stick…
I’ve worked in a hospital. During my time there we had a true blackout. Even the central power generator couldn’t turn on, because the connection was chewed through my rats. No one did a check on it like they’re supposed to every month…heads rolled for it.
Here to say, you can’t just power ICU beds in isolation. The circuits for emergency power aren’t just going to beds. They’re open sockets on the wall, any one can plug anything in there. You can’t just redo a circuit in the blink of an eye either. If their central generator died and they get a bunch of gas powered ones, they’ll need a lot of time to figure out where they need to splice the wires in order to supply power but not overwhelm the generators.
It’s safe to say they’re probably going to use their large central generator. It’s probably also safe to say they’re going to power more than the ICU beds. Even if they turned off the heating and cooling, they’re still going to use more than the figure you suggested. Some circuits aren’t optional.
I am incredibly skeptical of this story, but holy shit this is one of the funniest things I have seen on this site.
You: Fucking Israel, even if it is true, that is worthless
Someone else: Actually, if you look at the math that is actually probably really good for a single hospital
You: Well fuck Israel, I would have donated more personally and they should have done more
Again, I am incredibly skeptical of this story. But I REALLY hope it is true. Mostly because it is a sign of any form of humanity in an inhumane genocide. But partly to see your next act of mental gymnastics. Like, fuck Cirque du Soleil, this is where it is at.
Where’s the mental gymnastics? My initial point is that it’s NOTHING in terms of aid.
And the numbers given are dubious presumptions that assume modern, well kept, thousand dollar generators with modern ICU beds and no other equipment or auxiliary usage. It’s not useful or realistic.
I mean… you generally want refrigerators for a lot of medicine (and I assume blood?).
But I also assume those are already fucked from the past few weeks.
You aren’t going to be running at full capacity without providing power to the entire grid which has obvious implications with a war. But keeping the essential equipment running to keep kids and the like alive? I am not convinced they would be able to help everyone, but it would go a long way and be something that can be delivered with minimal risk of attacks en route and storage issues.
So some anonymous person on the internet did a couple of web searches and some back of the napkin simple multiplication, and suddenly for you that becomes the last word on the subject?
There is a fuckload more in a hospital that needs power in addition to an ICU bed. We don’t know what generators they’re using, the fuel consumed per hour, and how far a minimum power draw can go. We do know that the hospitals are so far over capacity that patients are everyplace, as are people seeking shelter.
I don’t know how hospital power systems are designed. maybe it’s possible that you could only power infant icus. I doubt it. either the hospital has power or it doesn’t. at least that’s what I would expect. so it’s not a matter of whether you’re just powering icu’s. also fuck israel.
Hospitals have lots of built-in safety and redundancy in their power systems, but ultimately most things draw power from an outlet just like at home.
And that means most ICU equipment could be plugged into a generator, if necessary. There are a few hospital-wide systems that might need to be replaced with portable units, like vacuum suction and oxygen lines.
Obviously that’s not ideal in terms of reliability, but it’s better than turning the life support off. In fact, it is pretty clear that hospitals in Gaza are using generators right now to power their equipment.
so… is the offered fuel “enough”? like I said: I don’t know much about electrical infrastructure. but I don’t think you need to know anything about it to believe that hospitals shouldn’t lose power for any patient, ICU babies or otherwise.
I wouldn’t count on the hospitals in Gaza having “up to code” dedicated life safety circuits with emergency backup anyway, let alone the ability to have a flexible power distribution system at all. What a shit situation, it’s so depressing.
Instead of telling Gazans to all go south, why don’t they set up some safe zones in Northern areas controlled by the IDF? They could bring in full supplies of everything, let people leave Gaza, and/or allow them to go to the west bank if they choose.
It’s a pretty good idea. But they’re probably worried about terrorists squeezing through. Egypt’s already had to halt some of the refugee routes because they caught a few terrorists sneaking through.
timesofisrael.com
Newest