I’ve owned flagship androids and iphones. I like my iPhone better, sorry. If other companies want to make a better product, I’ll switch back again. It’s not really about the exclusivity/walled garden nonsense.
Yes, but make a criticism of Apple’s monopolistic behaviour online and you’ll immediately have a million brain dead Apple fans screaming at you about how iPhones have to work exactly the way they do now or the world will fall apart.
I think it’s being pointed out that people who share your experience generally have a pretty extreme lack of awareness which everyone else can easily notice.
An announcement about a new iPhone or iOS feature will inevitably have Android supporters bashing on literally every single person that owns an iPhone, making childish character judgments about strangers.
If an announcement about Android happens though, you do not get a bunch of iPhone users looking to criticize the Android fans at all. We just don’t care to go through such a pointless exercise that is willfully engaging in extremely poor logic. It’s raw and unfiltered stupidity to generalize about any huge group of consumers solely based on a product they use. Use whatever you like.
The frustration with IOS new features, is not the feature, it is that apple claims it is revolutionary or apple exclusive…and Android people are like WTF we had that 10 years ago.
But the implementation is often a bit more stable or user friendly. Those features often do not light the world on fire because the user experience is not there yet, and google moves on too fast to finish the feature.
Bump to transfer files, worked fine 12 years ago. Adhoc wifi no issue. Google Wallet worked fine instead of Apple pay, and so on. its just nobody cares, except IOS users, as they think Apple pay is somehow better. Even a search says Apple’s “Revolution” of payment. if you notice the only difference between the rest of phone and PC market compared to Apple’s is the use of Adjectives in front of the software or device, and that is enough to convince the average person that it is better. Samsung has DEX that turns your flagship phone into a linux desktop (less linuxy after version 9 and more dumbed down now) When you dock it. So Monitor , keyboard Mouse, external drive use with full desktop experience, but nobody cares and Samsung doean’t flaunt it like Apple marketing would…but maybe they should.
That’s more specific than the average criticism, and while valid…why would anyone direct their ire for a company’s marketing towards their consumers? I can’t even count the amount of time I’ve heard folks online claim that Apple users only buy the phone for the image and because of their marketing etc. iPhones have been around for 17 years now, and people just like them. The standard complaint is that Apple fans are clueless etc. but people spend all their lives managing limited resources. It’s wildly ignorant to assume they can’t choose products for themselves. The simple fact is that iPhones are worth the money to the people who buy them, period.
i think the ire is because Apple fans believe it without questioning it, like flat earth believers being told that by a religious leader. People go harsh on religious fanatics. For adults buying a phone, sure. For kids it is image, they are peer pressured into having Apple, or face highschool ridicule. And they aren’t buying it outright, it goes on a payment plan that mom and dad pay for. Even my apple fan coworker is always trying to convince me to move to IOS, for “new” features, and I have to say dude I have been doing that forever, I would gain nothing by moving to IOS and lose a ton of technical abilities where I use my phone like a PC…but people can’t be convinced of what they already believe
i think the ire is because Apple fans believe it without questioning it, like flat earth believers being told that by a religious leader.
Sweeping generalization. What percentage of iPhone users are you suggesting that are like this? How would you even prove that? Marketing might get us to try something but we make up our own minds after that. You’d have to be imagining that the people that line up at the stores for days are actually representative of the iPhone using population. They’re the fringe. Are most of us not numb to marketing by now anyway?
Even my apple fan coworker is always trying to convince me to move to IOS, for “new” features, and I have to say dude I have been doing that forever, I would gain nothing by moving to IOS and lose a ton of technical abilities where I use my phone like a PC…but people can’t be convinced of what they already believe
Sounds like you made the right choices for you and I’m genuinely glad for you for that. Your issue is in thinking your logic should be everyone else’s as well. The difference between us is that I also believe the Android fans chose their phones correctly based on what they prioritized. I have no reason to assume that such huge groups of people dealing with limited resources aren’t distributed evenly across a spectrum of being discerning and of being frugal. There’s hardcore fans throwing money at them that they don’t have and on the other side there are people with plenty of money that just wait till the renewal is up and get the cheapest model and don’t care much.
For example I never walk around convincing people that Android is the best platform. A phone is just a phone. But the majority of Apple and Iphone users want to tell me how great their product is and that I should switch–when the conversation was not about phones. It is like dealing with Evangelical Christians. Now I know from experience that some Christians never speak of their religion to non believers, and some iphone users don’y solicit either, but there is a reason there is a stereotype. Maybe it is not in your circle and you are then actually lucky.
There are over 135 million iPhone users in the US. What’s your sample size to be saying that a majority of users want to tell you how great their product is? Are you sure you’re not oversampling the loud ones? That is, it’s easy to count the people who try to convert you, but how easy is it really to count the people who just don’t care? Some of them have likely overheard your conversations about phones and just kept on walking or doing their own thing.
Maybe it is not in your circle and you are then actually lucky.
Is it that I’m lucky or that you’re unlucky? Both would shift the window of perception in the same way.
I would suggest that people who want to pretend their decision-making is better than yours (especially regarding personal preference) sound like the type of annoying people that I avoid. Sorry you have to deal with them though! Those people suck whether they’re talking about their phones, shoes, cars, clothes, consoles, beer etc.
Well of course. This is how media and internet is. You get complainers and evangelicals and the folks in between don’t care enough to make the effort to weight in.
The original question was why the Ire on IOS users buying a new phone / features. So back to that, it is the loud IOS users that are visible and the ones and the loud android crowd calls out as being sheep.
But yes, unfortunately in my pocket of the world people seem insecure about the amount they paid to Apple and so want to onboard others around them to justify their own purchase through consensus validation.
Well, fair enough for sure. Let’s just both agree that those people suck and I genuinely hope you’re enjoying your phone of choice!
Seems like our only disagreement is just how many of the evangelicals there are. I used to do tech support for iPhones about 10 years ago and I’d say maybe one out of every 30 callers or so were the rabid fanboy types you describe. But that sample was skewed too because I was pretty much only talking to people having an issue with their phone. Hardly anyone was an Apple fan after 20 minutes on hold lol
Agreed. And yeah phone is good, especially now that I moved to GrapheneOS. All the tight security amd privacy settings, minus all the google apps ( those can be Sandbox added to keep Google out of your business). Anyhow, have a good weekend.!!
Seems the other way around works just as well. Say you like an Apple product and attract someone who goes „brainless Apple fanboy“ or „Google does it better because freedom“
Lol no one is responding to posts about how much you like a feature with hate, unless you’re trolling the wrong community or youre the person in OPs post, saying that in response to someone making a criticism of a corporation’s monopolistic behaviour?
Clearly we have been to different parts of the internet, cause that is definitely not what I observed in the past years.
It’s dumb either way. Google and Apple are publicly traded companies and therefore never have the end user as top priority. Satisfying them is just means to please shareholders, their top priority. And if it is not that, then it is pleasing some governing body (e.g. China, India) to expand market access and grow. For the shareholders again.
I’ve found the overall performance to be more consistent/better. The “better” part is a bit moot as every time I buy a new phone, the performance should be better than the last one just because it’s newer technology.
And while there are a lot of things I don’t like, core performance kind of overshadows any other issues I have or features I’m missing out on. Perhaps I should have said “better for my needs” instead of “better product.”
A lot of it comes down to software. I had a cpu performance scaling bug that meant my oneplus 7 pro would occasionally take ~5 seconds after unlock to stop being clocked at 100mhz. It made the unlock experience really laggy and crappy. It felt cheap and lazy.
I don’t get why people always bring up the “drama” of the bubble color on iphone texts. That "drama"was overblown. I’ve never met anyone who actually cares if another person’s using a different type of phone than them. Those people have got to be such a small minority of the population (and likely have a huge overlap with the ones that are just crap people already.) At this point bringing up the bubble colors is just a convenient way to fill out a dull argument.
It’s not the majority of interactions but it was common enough in high school and college that it became a VERY decisive topic. It seemed the Apple users who didn’t bully anyone were unaware it was happening, and the android users, whether or not they were bullied, were always mad about the bullying, which, from the perspective of average iPhone users, made it feel like android users were constantly nagging them, which just widened the cultural gap between the two groups.
So if someone who had an iphone learned you used android, there’s an equal chance you’d get someone who was a bully for no reason or someone who assumed you were combative about it and either way looked down on you for it. It was an unfortunate situation.
my issue is that in mixed platform group messages sometimes some messages don’t go through to some people in the group completely at random, nearly always when plans are trying to be made. it’s entirely Apple’s refusal to make imessages compatible with whatever android is using. Not about to shame the people who have androids because of it though, and it’s certainly not about the color of the text.
IDK, all i know is that group messaging with iMessages between iOS and android is still garbage. Its an easy fix though it its really causing issues between people: just use a 3rd party app.
You’re probably an adult, the whole blue/green bubble is targeted at high school student demographics, ya know, the same demographic who LOVES pointless drama and bullying over stupid shit like the color of a text bubble
Apple likes this setup because by the time you leave HS you’ll probably have switched to iPhone due to peer pressure and are unlikely to switch later because “it’s just what I’ve always used” and like you’ve noted no longer care about the blue/green bubble debate
I agree with your point but imo the drama doesn’t even just come from high school kids. I’m a year away from graduating undergrad and still wondering when (or if) people are going to grow up about it. Even then, full grown adults do it about as often as people my age in my experience. Honestly some of the worst offenders when it comes to green bubble shaming have been my family members on the older side who think everyone should just get an iPhone and refuse to use anything other than iMessage.
I have used a number of android phones and iPhones, and I can say that the experience on an iPhone is vastly superior to anything android has to offer. Until that changes, this problem is going to continue.
Companies can keep pumping out dogshit all they want and slapping a different coat of paint on it, at the end of the day it’s still dogshit.
Someone needs to build an OS superior to apple’s that is designed exclusively and optimized for the hardware of the phone, and it seems unlikely that will ever happen. Also that fact in and of itself is the reason iPhones are and will always have a superior user experience than anything android has to offer.
I would love to see something similar that is more secure, more privacy focused, and still has as good of a user experience as an iPhone, but this is an accessibility vs security problem.
Apple has leveraged what they once touted as a safer option because they would look after the security part on behalf of the user and twisted it into a more sinister business model (or perhaps that was always the M.O.)
IOS is a very bad OS. I really took android for granted until I had to manage iPads for work. Short list: You can’t have a management app auto start. So if someone locks themselves out of their device without manually opening the management app, they’re screwed and need factory reset.
Apps aren’t built to auto scale to device? I literally couldn’t believe my eyes the first time I tried to run an iPhone app on an iPad and it showed as phone sized screen in the middle of this iPad pro. Android is so well made that you can resize windows on the fly and most apps react just fine.
Thank goodness we paid for an extremely expensive MDM solution, because there’s no way to install apps without making every single user make an Apple account.
I’m not saying it’s perfect, but the typical user experience is vastly superior to anything android has to offer. I’m also specifically referring to phone os. Not tablets. I really don’t like apple as a company, but user experience on apple vs android phones are like night and day.
I work in IT for a school board and yeah, the support of iPads is straight shit, so I feel your pain.
Even just how Apple handles apps. If I asked you which company would present their apps in a neat organized alphabetized list that you can quickly scroll or search through, and which company would just dump them all in a mass of garbage on your homescreen and make you search for them, you’d assume it would be Google that forces you to search, but nope, that’s Apple’s terrible UX for managing the most basic aspect of a smartphone.
A feature added late to iOS, and one they have hidden behind the pile of homescreens you have since every app you install is just dumped on them. On Android you swipe up from anywhere on the homescreen and you immediately search or browse.
If what I read is true that does sound promising, but still leaves consumers with a number of issues.
You still need to support google to get this phone, (if part of the goal is to not support companies with questionable business practices) and while GrapheneOS does look promising I still have my doubts on the user experience.
From what I have read I believe you would need to install this OS yourself on the device. That to me is more of a workaround than a solution.
The typical user isn’t going to want to install a custom OS. This isn’t a product that is readily available to consumers to purchase through conventional means as far as I can tell. (I may be wrong on that, but it doesn’t appear that I could walk into a carrier store and purchase one ready to go).
Yes, the Pixel has specific hardware and security which makes it ideal for a private/secure phone. So it is unfortunate that a purchase supports Google, however the pixels are cheap so I assume Google is taking a profit loss to gain market (and data).
Graphene does have a web installer, so rather than the old days of connecting to a command shell and typing cryptic commands( for the average user) you connect your phone and click the web install buttons in order till you reach bottom of webpage. it gives you an instruction how to boot the phone into certain modes with volume and power buttons. While my mom isn’t going to work with this a 9-10 year old could do it.
/e/ OS was selling preinstalled phones, I haven’t seen the same from GrapheneOS yet…but I have not checked in depth to see if somebody is offering this.
I used to push android over iOS until a few years ago when Google became just as bad as Apple, if not worse. I’ve been trying to steadily get rid of Google products that they’re probably just going to either stop supporting or discontinue altogether, or gradually reduce features that I use every day. I switched over to an iPhone because it offers better privacy and allows for ad blockers without having to root your phone. I don’t have any desire to go back even though I still think the android interface makes more sense for me. I also don’t care what color someone’s bubble is.
May I ask what do you mean by android not allowing ad blockers? You can set up a private DNS and set it to one that blocks ads. A very simple thing to do.
Can you elaborate on how to use AdBlock on iPhone? Everytime I try to look it up I can only find ad block for the web browser. Last time I was told that’s all you can do, is this outdated?
Edit: you’re not just talking about using DNS right? Since that’s just the same as android.
Yeah, I just installed and paid for AdGuard pro, which blocks ads on safari. Doesn’t do anything for any Google app that I install but reading news sites is much better since I did it.
Yes it is pretty much the same, Android you just type the IP address, Apple you download a config. For anyone not knowing about it ( which sounds like you do) It is system wide, and not just for webpages, lookup goes through the private DNS. It is how the app version does it also, you just get a button to turn off the private DNS and use the general 8.8.8.8 or 1.1.1.1 for when you need to resolve a site, and maybe a few other functions. I forget which adblocker it was, but one was selling user data, so setting up your own DNS or pihole seems the best way.
GrapheneOS is where it is at. All the configuration of Android without Googles bullshit. And if you need Google bullshit it is Sandboxed so they aren’t holding your phone hostage
OPs point is also that they’re exhausting. If you try and make a legitimate criticism of Apple’s monopolistic behaviour as a trillion dollar corporation, then you just get flamed by Apple fanboys.
Depends why you made that criticism. I hate Apple as much as the next guy but the post makes it seem like the creator is the one who typically initiates a targeted and unwarranted attack at the user specifically (“…accuse him of supporting an evil…”) as soon as they see an iPhone in their hand and then gets mad when they retaliate
Exactly. As an iphone user (and linux sysadmin, compartmentalization is bot that hard), i agree with your criticisms of apple most of the time. They just make the better phone IMHO, and I say that as a nexus 4, nexus 6p, pixel XL, oneplus 7 pro, and oneplus 9 pro user. Yes i used custom roms, no I do not have the patience to treat my phone as a linux project anymore.
I regularly have android users go out of their way to try and fight me over this, and they always claim I must not have used android. It’s annoying to field over and over.
I use my iOS devices for convenient basic computing / communication. I use my actual computer for actual computing. I live in a multiverse thank you very much.
At least there’s choice with Android. I’d much rather it was possible for FOSS phones to actually exist but in the meantime the lock-in with Apple is an absolute non-starter, as is basically everything about their UX philosophy.
It really just depends on if you prefer customization or reliability.
For example, I’m an apple boi because I like that every app in the store is made specifically for an iPhone (which is easy for devs to do since there’s little variation). It leads to better maintained and performing apps because devs can optimize for the device it’s running on.
On android, you have way more choices, which some people prefer. But for myself, I get really annoyed when I launch an app and it fills 95% of my screen, but not all of it, because my phone is slightly taller then the 2000 other variations out there. It’s much harder for a dev to optimize their app when there are so many variables to account for on android.
Neither phone (or company for that fact) is better. They serve different demographics of users is all.
Have you used android in the last 10 years? Im not the kind of guy who install 100 apps per day but i did not encounter this issue for a VERY long time.
Im running an android phone from 2016 with android 13 and last week security patches. Smooth as silk, no google, no ads, battery lasts 10h SOT. That’s the reason why ill never switch to Apple as daily driver (I have 1 provided by my company)
Google is a bit better, Google allows you to both side load and unlock the bootloader. On those 2 things alone gives them at least a couple notches above Apple. Not to mention Android is designed around allowing you to customize things.
That being said, Google isn’t some savior, they’re still a giant corporation doing giant corporation things
I’m pretty much roped in at this point within their ecosystem, it all just talks together and works most of the time. Possibly I’ll regret it at some point in time when my secret history of browsing Margaret Thatcher furry porn is exposed to the world as punishment for criticizing the newest Apple Butt Plug attachment, but for now it just works better than the alternatives that I’ve seen.
If you're an iOS user, you've never been on the other side and experienced the sheer frustration of just trying to communicate or exchange simple things, like pictures or audio clips. Want high res? Nope, Apple devices still downgrade images to resolutions that were bare minimum compatibility for feature phones over a decade ago and the Android recipient gets the terrible quality image. Video of your kid your mother recorded? Forget it, it's been reduced to potato quality that, again, is compatible with feature phones from eons ago and sent to the Android user with the latest flagship. Exchange an audio clip you recorded? That recording is transcoded to a garbled mess and sent to the Android user.
The only way to get quality is to switch to some other communication platform such as Signal. That shouldn't be the case in 2024.
Your phone privacy is owned by your isp and the OS maker. You arent doing the world any better being on android. Google is fucking awful too. Both are awful and should be broken up. They are way too large and powerful and only having 2 phone OSes in the world everyone runs made by 2 greeeeedy ass corporations is the problem neither of you can solve gloating about which evil corp you give money to to interact with modern society.
So i support Google by using an open source OS? Just because your phone uses Android dosent mean it has any Google services included. Since Android itself is open source, there are many Android OSs that dont include any Google Software.
This was exactly my point, I’m not lining up for an iPhone or an android. The lack of choice is what drives me to buy apple because when the time comes for a new phone it’s one or the other and I prefer the experience on iPhone. Really I would rather not give my money to either but there are no viable alternatives. I would not criticize anyone for buying android or apple, it’s a matter of what kind of shit sandwich do you want to eat, and it’s terrible.
Install GrapheneOS , it is degoogled, and security focused. if you want play store it runs inside a sandbox so Google isn’t in all your biz. Also has Mic and Camera shutoff options for the paranoid types.
bro, the are android ROMs... there are ROMs whose entire thing is privacy and removing anything google. Saying they're equal is making a bad faith argument "Apple and Google are evil so Android is evil" 😩
Android is much more open than Apple ever will be. They aren't even in the same universe.
oh, understood. just saying that the marketing of social shame has been strategically exended into the colour of your text bubble pixels… from the “think different” company.
signal gets installed on every phone in my house, but the kids are drawn to where the other kids are and Apple snobbery is rife in the area I am in.
i wonder how much is actually apple, and how much is standard classist kid stuff…
there was a recent hydroflask craze with the kids around here… with kids chanting “sks” (sound at the end of hydroflasks)
but, i think that’s just because they’re nicer quality and expensive…
when i was a kid there was a big deal made about jean brands in my school…
I would say the majority of it is just the usual human monkey brained reactionary garbage that our species has always dealt with. the concerning bit is how our own brains have been weaponized against us with untold amounts of money and time expended in learning how to manipulate enough of us to extract and realocate “value” from the many to the few.
I think we are collectively building a benificial immune reaction to this invasion of our selves, but the attack is so pervasive and so persistent that it is, quite literally, mentally and physically debilitating - certainly by design. will we just exhaust ourselves into submission or change paths and try something that does not culminate in a species ending orgy of consumption and conflict? I have no idea, but very few of our possible futures look particularly hopeful to me at the moment.
I do, however, try to hold on to some thread of optimisim - I need a reason to get up in the morning.
I appreciate the dialogue, fellow internet denizen :-)
its their lived experience and they are the future adults of our world.
if the insane amount of micro-targeted manipulation and pressure these kids face on a daily basis does not concern you, then your lack of empathy is self evident and there is nothing else to be said to you.
Sure, TV ads and even some old games had ads which were targeted to specific demographics (their audience), but modern digital ads are targeted to vulnerabilities of specific individuals (using location, search, purchase history, etc.). They’re also shown much more often and baked into products which are specifically designed to target your subconscious psychology (using nudging, gamification, etc.) so you use them more.
The kind of data required for the level of ad targeting done now did not exist more than maybe 15-20 years ago.
You’re completely glossing over the fact that there was a whole different set of problems my generation had to deal with in the 90s. But sure, only modern kids ever struggled. We’ll go with that.
Obviously every generation has its struggles, but I was never disagreeing with that. If you treat this as “just another generational problem,” you are fundamentally missing the point. It’s as you say, a whole different set of problems.
Micro targeted ads are hard to ignore because most of the time they’re influencing our subconscious state. This isn’t just another generational issue we’re facing, it’s fundamentally shaping the way people look at the world without them even being aware of it. It’s not limited to just the current generation, because everyone interacts with technology. However, targeting inner psychology will obviously impact people with less developed brains more than it will impact adults, and we’re beginning to see the effects of that already with Gen Z.
peers being frustrated because I have an android… being left out of group chats because people don’t wanna break their existing imessage groups… having to constantly bother people about not sending videos/images over text because they become a blurry mess… frequently apologizing just for having an android…
And also a general awareness I’ve developed that I have been left out of things… harder to know because, well, I was left out.
Mind you I am probably in the single worst location for this in terms of mindshare. By my unscientific observation, ~0.5% of students had an android at my school.
Then you are hanging around with highschool kids that care what shoes you wear. I guaranty nobody working and living a proper life gives a shit on text bubble colours
They’re kids and plus most of it is subconscious. None of them are mean or anything about it. I can assure if I was to ask them, they’d all say it’s totally fine and they don’t mind at all and they understand, but still they end up sending one less text because they have negative feelings associated with it and thus their brain brings it up a little less.
Maybe nobody working gives a shit right now, but if this is how the kids are growing up, it’s gonna keep becoming a bigger problem
Then that is an education issue. Part of our curriculum was decoding advertising and marketing used to manipulate consumers. it seems this has to be readded at schools.
If you wamted privacy you would not be using the OS delivered messaging app that IOS can read anyway to flag CASM. And the group can screenshot and share. if you actually wanted privacy you would be using a tool like Session.
I once wanted to repair an older Ipad because the screen was cracked. The repair would have cost 600€ at an Apple reseller. A new Ipad would have been about 700€ at the time.
There is a reason why Apple is so against the right to repair.
Even their “self-repair” option nowadays is a load of bollocks. You have to rent the expensive machine, order a new part (which can only come from them of course), send out your part and wait before they will send the replacement part, then hope you don’t fuck up slightly, causing you to break the screen and you having to pay through your nose again to order a replacement.
So it only costs slightly less, but you will not have a phone for weeks.
There really is no reason third party hardware can’t be installed at the users own risk. But that would mean competition for Apple, and they don’t like that.
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