nobody made this argument except you, what was said was that Biden supporters are just like the people whom this flag represents, they’re ok with an actual genocide being committed against other people as long they’re comfortable
I’d be surprised if opponents of genocide would vote Republican instead, given how some GOP reps seem to be opposing even the half-measure of delaying arms shipments.
A two party state where you choose between “fucked up” and “less fucked up, but constantly ceding ground” just does a poor job of accurately representing the opinions of people favouring actual progress, so they’re doing what they can to pull the Overton Window their way.
This is what perpetuates the insanity in US. When your choices are Hitler and 99% Hitler, then the vote is meaningless. A lot of people will just choose not to participate in this circus.
If you support Biden then you are supporting a genocide that US is currently involved in. Period. The fact that you can’t even admit this just further underscores your utter lack of morality and intellectual honesty.
Ok, but if I don’t support Biden, the other guy is going to continue doing the genocide. Maybe even at a worse pace. So what’s the answer than? Voting on every other decision
Genocide sucks, but America dug this hole for generations. It’s not all on Biden
Your actions are what matter, and if you’re going to vote for the guy who is conducting a genocide then you are complicit. No amount of hand wringing will change that.
Not voting is also an action. And if your refusal to vote allows someone to take power that will not only continue the genocide, but also start more genocides, then you are complicit. No amount of hand wringing will change that.
Yeah, not voting for either genocidal scumbag is indeed an action. To frame what’s happening in US as the fault of people who refuse to vote for either scumbag is the height of idiocy. No amount of liberal sophistry will change that.
It’s the trolley problem with a single track: you can pull the lever and the trolley will run over 5 people before it stops, or you can not pull the lever and the trolley will run over 10 people.
If you’re standing beside the lever with your arms crossed refusing to pull it, saying “the fault is on the person who tied the people to the track. Getting involved makes me complacent.” Then yes, people are going to blame you because even if you didn’t cause the problem there is something very easy you can do to make it less bad.
You can’t save all 10, but you can save 5. So you do what you can, and then you also go after the guy who tied the people to the tracks.
Learn how resisting actual repressive regimes works instead of making a clown of yourself here. You’re not saving anyone here. Biden is the one doing a genocide as we speak, not Trump. But I suppose racists like you don’t even consider Palestinians to be humans, so you won’t lose any sleep over that.
Nah, it’s just people who use a trolley analogy to dismiss an actual genocide they’re supporting who are racists. Clearly you place no value on the lives of Palestinians that the party you keep telling people to vote for is massacring. At least have the decency to own up to your beliefs openly little fash.
Change comes from outside the ballot box. Vote for Biden, sure, but join and support the ongoing protests forcing his hand currently. Historically, meaningful change has come from collective action.
If your choices are Hitler and 99% Hitler, you still do what you can to stop 100% Hitler. Less bad is less bad.
Nobody cares about your smug sense of superiority when 100% Hitler is in charge and you proudly announce “I did nothing to stop this, other than try to encourage other people to also do nothing to stop this.”
Considering I specifically suggested doing something is better than doing nothing, I’m going to go ahead and guess that listening to what other people are saying isn’t a strength of yours.
Doing something is what the students protesting the genocide are currently doing, not voting for the guy doing the genocide. The fact that you don’t understand these basic things is truly phenomenal.
I understand that the people protesting are doing something. This is the first time you’ve actually advocated for an action.
People are fully capable of both protesting and voting to keep someone worse from doing worse things. The fact that you don’t understand these basic things is truly phenomenal.
Protesting a genocide is real tangible action, voting for a guy committing the genocide is the opposite that action. Hope that helps clear things up for you since you seem to have trouble grasping this concept.
Stalin and Mao liberated hundreds of millions of people, provided them with food, healthcare, education, and jobs. Imagine comparing that to a senile manager of the empire doing a genocide. What is wrong with you?
Meh, you and I both know that we cannot have an honest discussion of Mao or Stalin’s flaws on this instance, the same way we can have an honest discussion of Biden’s.
Ever since Ukraine’s February revolution, the Kremlin has characterised the new leaders in Kiev as a “fascist junta” made up of neo-Nazis and anti-Semites, set on persecuting, if not eradicating, the Russian-speaking population.
This is demonstrably false. Far-right parties failed to pass a 5% barrier to enter parliament, although if they had banded together, and not split their vote, they would have probably slipped past the threshold.
Lol your own sources are telling you that you talk BS
Edit: found another one lol
The odious Russian media tried to paint Ukraine as a land of Nazis, though that is patently wrong. Ukraine has a thriving Jewish community, and its far-right is still on the fringe. It’s the same in America.
The fascist issue is not a biggest concern than in Germany, US, France, and certainly not than in Russia. Of course every fascist must be fought, but it’s easy to denounce far-right in other countries. In the hearth of capitalism, a consistent anti-imperialist position shall fight the imperialism state. I’m not fan of the dude, but that pretty basics leninism
About “nazi” that came to the west, it’s true, but your examples are very bad. Yea every male in germany during the 3rd Reich have to join the army. Of could they could desert, and having their family and their own life threaten, but that’s not make them nazi. None of them were in the nazi party or one of its organisation (like the SS). Adolf Heusinger may be another case, being a general is not the same responsibility and agentivity This a bad job because there is a lot of example of fascists kept at position of power in many countries, including the occupied germany and the french vichists. This lead to fascists laws and institutions being kept in those countries (some brigades dedicated to kill resistance converted in “anticriminal brigade” for example), and being used against decolonization.
TL;DR you could demonstrate nazification of western countries, but in repeating russia propaganda, you fail to do so.
M8, russkiland tells all of us “ukraine nazi:C” because they fought and freed themself from a form of russian occupation. The moron who was kicked out in 2014 by the ukrainian people recieved a lot of money from russia to be their puppet state, like belarus is right now, but the people didn’t like to be such a country and fought for their freedom. That’s why vatnikstan invaded crimea and the donbas to keep their little puppet at their side, that’s why they kill and torture those who are innocent and just want to live in peace.
I, for one, am shocked, shocked that defenders of Russia are still using the same easily disproven lies to justify invading, occupying, and murdering a neighboring country.
It’s not like Russia has a history of lying about its military operations in Ukraine or anything, right?
Jacobin: Why the Twitter Files Are in Fact a Big DealOn the Left, there’s been a temptation to dismiss the revelations about Twitter’s internal censorship system that have emerged from the so-called Twitter Files project. But that would be a mistake: the news is important and the details are alarming.
“Defense” is when you aid the overthrow of a government to replace it with a fascist one that kills eastern Ukrainians like in Donbass, DPR, LPR, and Crimea
Then they wonder why Crimeans overwhelming support Russia against the post-2014 fascist coup gov in Ukraine
Wow, I Wonder why everyone that’s left in the regime that deports and persecutes dissenters says they are in support of that regime?
Ukraine never invaded anybody. Giving them weapons so they can throw out the people invading them, taking their land and molesting their people is a good thing. Russia has clearly shown that the only way to get rid of the plague that is Russian soldiers on foreign soil is to kill them. That’s why we have this war that Russia has chosen to engage in, and which Russia can choose to withdraw from at any time. That’s why Russians are dying by the hundreds of thousands.
Out of honest curiosity: Whats wrong with sopuli.xyz? I literally just picked a random instance when I joined Lemmy, and have never heard anything special about this instance.
Maybe because it’s the instance that hosts the largest pro fascist-coup gov community. Everything I’ve seen from it at least seems to enforce that stereotype
It’s a shame that people who say they support “Ukraine” usually mean the 2014 fascist coup gov instead of the Ukrainian breakaway regions resisting it.
I was more thinking when Russia invaded and tried to encircle Kyiv and whatnot. But yeah, when you fight against an attacker, it’s defence. It’s a general term rather than a value position.
Yeah, the famous fascists that are actively working hard to join the EU, which we’ve seen so clearly the past decade just loves having fascist states in its ranks. You know, the fascist government that had an actual election as late as 2019 where southern and eastern regions largely voted for the person that won.
Notice how there was actually a change of power in that election - a known hallmark of fascist states.
You know, the fascist government that had an actual election as late as 2019 where southern and eastern regions largely voted for the person that won.
It’s too bad that actor who used to play president on TV and had zero actual political experience got steamrolled by the fascists once he got in office.
When did he get steamrolled? When he ensured that corrupt people were sentenced by a court before being jailed, or when he applied to join the famously pro-fascist EU?
They outlawed starting a conversation in Russian. It was criminal for a business not first say something in Ukrainian. Like, imagine if Arizona tried to pass a law that criminalized conducting business in Spanish.
It’s defense because the US military industrial complex is “defending” its profit margins by creating instability far enough away that it won’t affect them, but that they can profit off of
I remember back in 2014 when even Redditors could tell the solution was to have Eastern Ukraine be a separate state so the coup gov wouldn’t be killing them for resisting. That’s what the people in the DPR and LPR were trying to do and were being bombed by the fascist state for it. At least Crimeans are free from it now ig.
It’s sad, but countries like Russia show us very clearly why nations that want peace need to prepare for war.
I would love to not need to spend a cent on our military, or weapons manufacturing, but the hard reality is very clearly that if we aren’t capable of mass producing weapons, we’ll likely be invaded and killed.
That’s a major part of the issue Europe is facing now: We’ve scaled down weapons production since the 90’s, and now that we suddenly need millions of artillery shells it takes time to rebuild production capacity.
Hopefully Russia gets the picture soon, that we’ll keep scaling up until every Russian invader is gone, and we can go back to not spending money on war…
Russian invasion has been a goddamn goldmine to weapon manufacturers. Not only those selling to Ukraine but also got a lot of European countries to re-arm and restart domestic production.
Yup, who would have though that Russia invading their neighbour suddenly caused the entirety of western Europe to start the largest investments in military and weapons manufacturing since the cold war?
Looking at the results of this war so far (major expansion of NATO in the North, massively increased military spending in all of NATO, massively increased size of the Ukrainian military), you would almost think Putins goal was something completely different than preventing NATO expansion and “de-militarizing” Ukraine.
It’s almost like the best way of preventing your neighbours from building huge militaries and joining alliances is by cooperating with them and helping them feel safe, rather than threatening, coercing and bombing them.
Lol at the people downvoting this like that isn’t exactly what happened: NATO had wanted Finland to join for years, but they didn’t want to join, for fear of provoking Russia. Putin shows the world that appeasement doesn’t work, and Finland joins in a heartbeat.
I actually hadn’t realised that yet, thanks for pointing it out, I thought I was going crazy with the amount of people suddenly supporting Russian invaders
Induced demand – the production of weapons necessitates the use of weapons in order to keep shares from crashing. Like a shoe factory regularly changing the design and fashion to keep from flooding the market, blood is spilled to keep the 401Ks safe.
Welcome to the Second Cold War, you’ve been here along.
Amazing, a century latter the blame is still squarely placed on Russia. Those people must not be capable of self-determination, am I right my good Cold Warrior? Good thing we had this stockpile of depleted uranium, by jingo! So what if it leaches into the groundwater? Canadian mining firms have been poisoning Ukrainian groundwater for decades now! What’s a little rare-earth-elements between allies, amiright?
Maybe Putler should stop attacking and invading free countries? I am sure the blame would lessen. Also, less raping in the invaded territories would go a long way, I guess.
Yeah yeah, you see the individual and not the historical pattern.
Isn’t it funny that the US keeps doing this? The presidents are incidental, flitting in and out of office with the whim of the public. But the conflicts? Those last. Nuclear rockets parked in Yugoslavia one century, flooding Ukraine with weapons the next. You know children in Vietnam are, to this day, born with napalm induced complications?
Doesn’t this all ring a little too familiar to you? Do you think maybe our grandparents had cute little nicknames for Khrushchev, comparing him to Hitler, when they were our age?
If the USA invaded the USA they’d probably just lose again. I’m not sure that’s even technically possible but their past track record shows it’s inevitable 😂
Well the war in the USA would be so unpopular with the USA they’d be pressured to withdraw from the USA…but they’d stick around for another decade because defense contractors’ stonks were still doing great.
Well yeah, if you passed a reference then once the original is destroyed it would be null. The real trick is to make a copy and destroy the original reference at the same time, that way it never knows it wasn’t the original.
The specific problem with both systems is that they are controlled by a central entity. Sounds harmless enough on a first glance. However, this also means that whoever owns/controls this system, can control a lot of people very effectively. This could be used for good but is instead mostly used to keep people in line.
This makes it easy for a single person/small group to control an entire nation, which I think is a bad thing.
Good thing that the system in China is in the hands of the working majority. If you look at how Chinese political system is structured it becomes clear that it’s not in fact in the hands of a small group of people.
I do not believe that is the case. Mainly because of their questionable choices. Things like their great Firewall, which also censors political topics that the government does not approve or the perseution of certain ethnic groups. I don’t belive a majority of the people would want to do things like that.
Or the covid “quarantine” that had mass protests and went on with roaming squads of police to ensure no one went outside. Sounds like a majority choice lol. That person is spewing chinese propaganda.
Claiming that taking tough measures to arrest the spread of the pandemic instead of letting millions of people die the way west did was a bad decision is the height of psychopathy. You are one sick individual.
You’re putting a lot of words in my mouth my guy. You said the Chinese government is run by the majority workers. I’m giving an example of how the majority wanted something, and the minority said otherwise. Not only said otherwise, but imprisoned anyone that dissented. Like all government, the few control the many.
The “zero covid” policy in china was absolutely insane.
AND, guess what, I was able to argue my point without calling names. Lmao.
Majority of people in China actually wanted to have a safe environment. I guess just making shit up is what passes for making an argument in your head. LMAO indeed.
Ah, yes, as we see Here the famously outspoken Chinese population welcoming the lockdown with open arms.
In a country where civil gatherings are largely unheard of outside of the respective country, these just super vocal minority thinkers, got 1000’s of people to risk their way of life just for the fun of it. Just cause they wanted to make sure to let the government know how excited they were for their turn to go to prison!
Outside the tongue in cheek, my friend, you cannot tell me this is what the majority wanted. You like/live in china, you should know what it costs those people to even make headlines anywhere. And how many there were.
There is nothing questionable about those choices. For example, the firewall is the reason why China has its own domestic tech industry while the rest of the world is dominated by a handful of US companies. Meanwhile, censorship of capitalist views is good actually. And the idea that the government prosecutes certain ethnic groups has no actual basis in reality. This notion has been debunked to death but people in the west will keep repeating this because that’s what they want to believe.
I mean, I guess if that’s where we’re going to go, it doesn’t matter what I say, the number of organizations, within the UN, outside the UN, independent, dependent. You’re just going to call bullshit because who said it isn’t happening? China? Odd, I wonder what they’d have to gain by saying they aren’t committing human atrocities.
There are no organizations, to my knowledge, that are dying on the hill that there’s absolutely nothing happening with the Uyghurs.
There are a lot of reports that say shits going down. Yes, I’m sure a lot of it is editorialized. Just like anything about America in those countries. I’m not naive enough to believe anyone at face value but I’m not going to write off everything as propaganda either. Even China says the camps exist basically specifically for them, for “reeducation”. Which, sure, maybe the people need, but, to believe that at face value is a level of bliss I would love to reach.
And before anyone goes “well the US…” I CONDEMN THAT SHIT TOO. Stop fucking murdering people. There isn’t some magical government that’s better than anyone else. They all fucking suck.
But to pretend it isn’t happening, that’s a tragedy. I hope if someone has to give you compassion on that level, you get it. Cause it’s the least we can do to each other.
Sigh, alright I guess I’ll address the nonsense in detail for you. The whole conspiracy theory started with a claim of millions of Uyghurs being supposedly imprisoned story is based on two highly dubious “studies.”.
However, this claim is completely absurd when you stop and think about it even for a minute. That figure 1 million is repeated again and again. Let’s just look at how much space would you actually need to intern one million people.
This is a photo of Rikers Island, New York City’s biggest prison. The actual size of a facility interning ten thousand people.
According to Wikipedia, “The average daily inmate population on the island is about 10,000, although it can hold a maximum of 15,000.” Let’s assume this is a Xinjiang detention camp, holding ten to fifteen thousand people. How many of these would it take to hold one million people?
Let’s do some math:
Rikers Size
Rikers Prisoners
One Million Uyghurs Size
413.2 acres (0.645 square miles)
10,000 to 15,000
43 to 64 square miles
In reality, one million people would probably take more space; all the supposed detention camps we see are much less dense than Rikers.
For comparison, San Francisco is 47 square miles. Amsterdam is 64 square miles. You’d literally need detention camps that total the size of San Francisco or Amsterdam to intern one million Uyghurs. It’d be like looking at a map of California. There’s Los Angeles. There’s San Diego. And look, there’s San Francisco Concentration City with its one million Uyghurs.
Practically all the stories we see about China trace back to Adrian Zenz is a far right fundamentalist nutcase and not a reliable source for any sort of information. The fact that he’s the primary source for practically every article in western media demonstrates precisely what I’m talking about when I say that coverage is divorced from reality.
Along with his “mission” against China, heavenly guidance has apparently prompted Zenz to denounce homosexuality, gender equality, and the banning of physical punishment against children as threats to Christianity.
The fact that this nutcase is being paraded as a credible researcher on the subject is absolutely surreal, and it’s clear that the methodology of his “research” doesn’t pass any kind of muster when examined closely.
It’s also worth noting that there is a political angle around the narrative around Xinjiang. For example, here’s George Bush’s chief of staff openly saying that US wants to destabilize the region, and NED recently admitting to funding Uyghur separatism for the past 16 years on their own official Twitter page. An ex-CIA operative details US operations radicalizing and training terrorists in the region in this book. Here’s an excerpt:
US has been stoking terrorism in the region while they’ve been running a propaganda campaign against China in the west. In fact, US even classified Uyghur separatists as a terrorist group at one point www.mintpressnews.com/…/276916/
Here’s an account from a Pakistani journalist who has been all over Xinjiang (which borders Pakistan) claims that western media reports on “atrocities” are lies. …com.pk/…/exposing-the-occidents-baseless-lies-ab…
It’s also worth noting that the accusations originate entirely from the west while Muslim majority countries support China, and their leaders have visited Xinjiang many times.
Also notable that whenever western media actually deigns to visit Xinjiang, which is not often, they’re unable to produce support for any of their claims of mass imprisonment and oppression, so they opt for insinuations instead apnews.com/…/coronavirus-pandemic-lifestyle-china…
Well, considering the length of response, and time between them, this was a copy-pasta. But, given the context, I will read through this. I do genuinely want to like have some discourse because, admittedly, I’m not a china expert.
However, you’re going to need to give me time, and this is a lot to go through.
And I may have some counter points and questions, so please be patient?
At the end of the day, I really don’t think china = bad. Us = good. However, I find that whenever I have conversations with anyone about it, on either side, they refuse to see how any sane person could come to a conclusion that isn’t theirs.
I’m very open to changing my mind, but it may take some time if you’re up for it.
Also hitting me with the “YoU ReAd TaBloIDs” then hitting me with a qz article is🤌🏻 however, I’ll be open.
This comes up often enough that I do have the sources handy. And sure, if you have actual questions/points that aren’t just flippant then we can discuss those.
I will do my best to add something and questions beyond the “china bad” narrative.
If I do come up with some stuff that you think is disingenuous, please call it out, maybe I’ll be able to rephrase certain things. I’ll reply up a bit in the chain after I look into everything!
No rush, it’s a big link dump to go through. Most people don’t really bother, so I appreciate the fact that you’re willing to actually examine the evidence that’s available.
It is certainly a link dump lmao if I do change my mind on the dump alone, I won’t just quietly “ope, guess I’m wrong, delete everything” either hahahah but, I may add some strike through’s and edits as to why I don’t think something as I go. This is going to be my personal deep dive on this topic. If there’s anything I’m strongly “anti” it’s human atrocities. Lmao, high bar, right? But, I do like to light up any government I get to when it comes to that shit.
I would hope most people are against atrocities. The question is ultimately what the truth of any particular situation is, and what the motivations of the people are. Understanding that is not always easy, but a good rule of thumb is that nations tend to be less than truthful about their geopolitical rivals.
Whatever, what would happen to me in China if I went in the street yelling “Xi Jinping can lick my balls”? Cuz that Pooh Bear bitch can straight lick my balls for real.
Let’s face it, you can’t even find China on a map. You’re never going to go to China, you don’t give a shit about people living in China. You’re just a racist who thinks he’s being awful clever. It’s sad and pathetic, and everybody can see through it.
Oh I’m racist? Next you’re gonna tell me I am not the same age as her do not touch! Making fun of a government and leader of said government is not racism. You are beyond ridiculous, more ridiculous than the noise Xi Jinping makes when he motorboats my scrote.
I just learned git bisect from https://ohmygit.org/! You run it, then checkout other commits all over the project, and mark them with git bisect good or git bisect bad. Then it paints all commits that led to the good one as good, and all the ones after the bad one as bad, so you just keep narrowing your window by playing checkout Jezzball until there’s only one commit left: the one that introduced the bad state.
I feel the same way about Haskell. Every program I’ve used is either a “Look at what else Haskell can do!” example, or an endorsement of universal packages whenever I have to update 200 haskell modules.
↑ This. Haskell makes it super easy to get good CLI filters. All you need to do is interact and process the string it gives you. You’ll automatically get streaming behavior because of laziness without lifting a finger.
interact is (String → String) → IO (), a function that takes a String → String (a function that takes a string and returns a string) and returns an I/O operation (which is a separate type since Haskell doesn’t have side-effects). The function you give it will receive all of stdin as a string and its output will be stdout. The magic comes because Haskell uses cons-lists that are lazy in their spine — the list doesn’t actually exist until you look at it. This means that, from your perspective (probably not how this is actually implemented), the list you return is iterated character-by-character, and each character that gets printed only waits for the characters it needs, allowing the rest of the stdin list to remain unevaluated.
We had an all hands on deck, world is ending bug one time. Like, basically the entire org got pulled onto it. In our product is a spreadsheet of activities, with dates and durations. Our customers can run a scheduling algorithm to adjust dates based off of durations and activity dependencies and relationships. This is super important. This broke. We have to make sure that activities don’t have circular dependencies, or otherwise scheduling will loop infinitely and fail. So, we basically dfs looking for a loop before scheduling, and fail it with a not really helpful error message. That loop checkimg got updated so it could properly provide helpful info in the error message. This change caused most real world schedules to have false positives for loops when checked, ergo, no ability to schedule. I found the cause of the problem but not the dependency structure that caused the issue, and ultimately decided it would be faster, cleaner, and overall better to rewrite the feature myself than to fix the original. So, I wrote the most beautiful damn depth first search of my life! Learned about the bug monday morning, had the fix good to go tuesday night, so that qa could test wednesday thursday for the hotfix merge deadline friday. Two days isn’t a lot to cover testing it, but I figure with every tester in the org pretty much available to pound on it itd be good enough. While I was working on the rewrite, other devs and qa were hunting down all the details of what happened to cause the bug, data structure wise, and coming up with good test cases. So, by the time it was ready, they knew what happened and had a much more thorough test plan. Well, it came down from on high that the fix would go into the next major release, not a hotfix, so it didn’t actually go out for 3 weeks after the monday the bug came in. Sigh. Well, I had fun writing it, and I consider it the cleanest, most beautiful and elegant code I’ve ever written. It used a stack of stacks! When I’m feeling shitty and useless at work, I go back and look at it tbh.
I code maybe 2 times a year at my job. Every other time I am doing some sort of paperwork to verify features work, or I am using fucking excel. It’s incredible.
I feel you. I spent 48 hours this week streaming shows, waiting for a possible call to some in. I’m sure that’s some people’s dream job, but it drives me nuts that I have to be on site for no reason. I like the feeling I get from actually working and the sense of accomplishment it gives you
I love working from home. I game all day. But man I miss my service industry jobs for how much satisfaction they could give but the trade off is high levels of stress.
lemmy.ml
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