Tell both to shut the fuck up, learn to live together, and stop killing each other. What a goddamn radical concept. Fuck all this “which side is right” bickering and admit they’re both wrong.
It’s easy to say that when you’re an outside party who doesn’t understand or care about the underlying issues. Not to minimize the issue with the metaphor, but have you ever fought with a sibling or someone else at school and your disinterested parent our authority figure told you to both to stop without addressing any of either of your underlying problems? How well did it work?
Pretending that “just stop it” deals with the realities of a complex history of real grievances and legitimate causes for anger and retribution on both sides is the most magical of magical thinking, and it doesn’t help that third party negotiators usually start their peace proceedings by learning NOTHING about the history of distrust and anger building up over decades, picking a side to ride or die with, and then declaring the issue fixed as soon as someone signs an agreement.
Y’all are tripping he literally has the Pooh bear smile and set of eyes I don’t know any other Chinese people who look like ghatm he has a DISTINCT Pooh bear ass look. This got nothing to do with Pooh being yellow. You might as well say the red shirt is a communism reference.
It’s definitely the second - paid. Look how new people are turning up with long posts supposedly debunking ‘western propaganda’, supported by suspicious external sources. Also not how a pro- China post here is upvoted by multiple people as soon as it’s posted. All these could be one person. Even so, why go through so much trouble supporting a person others consider as a dictator?
Jacobin: Why the Twitter Files Are in Fact a Big DealOn the Left, there’s been a temptation to dismiss the revelations about Twitter’s internal censorship system that have emerged from the so-called Twitter Files project. But that would be a mistake: the news is important and the details are alarming.
You know what’s also racist? China genociding Uyghurs. Quit pretending that the fact that the US is an imperialist piece of shit means that China is good.
red scare bullshit. western media is writing this in order to deflect from the real spying done by the united states. even if the lies told by western propaganda would have anything to do in reality, why would you care about a far away government collecting intelligence about you over the one that can (and will) actually hurt you?
i use foss because i like the idea of it (its basically cyber leftism), as well as to hide from western intelligence, since i have the misfortune of living in there. why are YOU using it?
unlike western nations, china is a a dictatorship of the proletariat, aka a peoples state. you will only be targered, if you are some kind of rightist. i happen to support the targeting of such people, to the point that i believe the prc isnt doing nearly enough in this regard, allowing elements like deng xiaoping to rise through the ranks. cuba and korea are much more consequent in this regard.
You people go around calling others NSA, CIA and what not. But from my perspective, all your counter arguments are similar, consistent and repetitive. I have seen the same in other communities as well. At this point, you might as well concede that you’re running a CCP propaganda campaign on the lemmyverse, instead of trying to discredit others.
and so is chinese and Russian media. go ahead make sure the news source is centrist, and not get into political fights. also do you notice that communist symbols are banned in former communist nations.
there aint no genocide perpetrated by the prc. even IF all the fake evidence provided by the west were real (it isnt) it would still look absolutely ridiculous in comparison to real genocides like the one in gaza and all the other places brutalized by the us and their puppets.
Not so fast. While it is certainly questionable what they are doing and I personally don’t like China either, the Uyghur situation is complicated and Bad Empanada made a detailed analysis of the situation while trying to be unbiased. Most of what we see (or rather saw since the trend kind of died) in western media is very exxagerated and there were reasons that had little to do with ethnicity.
The US tried to foment division in China by funding and organizing terrorist cells in Xinjiang, and when those efforts failed it concocted and promoted a genocide narrative. Antony Blinken is still pushing this slop, just two weeks ago.
We see here for example the evolution of public opinion in regards to China. In 2019, the ‘Uyghur genocide’ was broken by the media (Buzzfeed, of all outlets). In this story, we saw the machine I described up until now move in real time. Suddenly, newspapers, TV, websites were all flooded with stories about the ‘genocide’, all day, every day. People whom we’d never heard of before were brought in as experts — Adrian Zenz, to name just one; a man who does not even speak a word of Chinese.
Organizations were suddenly becoming very active and important. The World Uyghur Congress, a very serious-sounding NGO, is actually an NED Front operating out of Germany […]. From their official website, they declare themselves to be the sole legitimate representative of all Uyghurs — presumably not having asked Uyghurs in Xinjiang what they thought about that.
The WUC also has ties to the Grey Wolves, a fascist paramilitary group in Turkey, through the father of their founder, Isa Yusuf Alptekin.
Documents came out from NGOs to further legitimize the media reporting. This is how a report from the very professional-sounding China Human Rights Defenders (CHRD) came to exist. They claimed ‘up to 1.3 million’ Uyghurs were imprisoned in camps. What they didn’t say was how they got this number: they interviewed a total of 10 people from rural Xinjiang and asked them to estimate how many people might have been taken away. They then extrapolated the guesstimates they got and arrived at the 1.3 million figure.
Sanctions were enacted against China — Xinjiang cotton for example had trouble finding buyers after Western companies were pressured into boycotting it. Instead of helping fight against the purported genocide, this act actually made life more difficult for the people of Xinjiang who depend on this trade for their livelihood (as we all do depend on our skills to make a livelihood).
Any attempt China made to defend itself was met with more suspicion. They invited a UN delegation which was blocked by the US. The delegation eventually made it there, but three years later. The Arab League also visited Xinjiang and actually commended China on their policies — aimed at reducing terrorism through education and social integration, not through bombing like we tend to do in the West.
No, I am not racist. I just think this Chinese person looks like a yellow animal, but let me just pretend is this one person, so it is okay with others not to call me out on my racism. /s
I bet it is also okay to say that African leaders I don’t like look like other kinds of primates /s.
Since I don’t like them it must be okay to be racist towards them /s
This is what happen when people are not taught critical race theory. They don’t even know that they are being racist 🤦🏾♂️
Wow! The amount of dishonesty in your words is staggering. Nobody pretended that it was against one person - they mentioned only one person. You’re the one who twisted their words and pretended that it’s against an entire race. In fact, you are the only one who mentioned the Chinese race here.
And the racist tirade against Africans. They didn’t say that - you did. You made a racist insult in order to argue that others are racist. To be honest, no one else here is anywhere close to a racist as you are.
And please stop hiding behind ridiculous accusations of racism. It’s an extremely common and cheap tactic employed by autocrats to misdirect.
You really just compared “African leader” to “a monkey”. I can’t, I can’t believe it. The irony, the sheer irony, it’s delicious, so very delicious, keep feeding me more of this shit.
You’re completely miss understanding the entire thing. You’re dear lead is being compared to an iconic, childhood beloved, Disney, cartoon bear 🐻, and you think it’s racist? How foolish.
Somebody compares your dear supreme dictator to a cartoon bear. You: “You are racist against all Chinese”.
Even after others clarify that it’s against one person, you have your ears plugged and crying racism. You know what it sounds like? A scripted act to pretend that you’re morally right. In fact, I have seen this so many times. It’s from your masters’ propaganda playbook, isn’t it?
I didn’t call it nonsense. The truth of the statement isn’t in question just by calling it propaganda. I’m criticizing it because cherry-picking economic successes to celebrate an oppressive regime is a concerning behaviour.
Raising 800 million people out of poverty in the span of 70 years is not “cherry picking,” it’s the “greatest such achievement in history” by the UN’s own reckoning. How do you square the circle of China being an “oppressive regime” and raising 800 million people out of poverty? I’m sure you’ve been fed virtually the same fire hose of cold war propaganda your whole life as I have.
concerning behaviorjagoff Thank you for your concern trolling.
rebellion Stono-Aufstand Selk’nam Genocide Genocidio selknam Rhodesia Rodhizha Operation Ajax کودتای ۲۸ مرداد Australian frontier wars 澳大利亚边境战争 Yeosu-Suncheon massacre 여수·순천 사건 COVID-19 in the United States 2019冠狀病毒病美國疫情 Mau Mau uprising Maumau Parsley massacre Masak nan Pèsil 2009 Honduran coup Golpe de Estado en Honduras de 2009 Somoza dynasty Familia Somoza Operation Yellowbird 黃雀行動 Eric Garner Убийство Эрика Гарнера Margaret Thatcher 玛格丽特·撒切尔 Briggs plan Rancangan Briggs Operation Legacy Operación Legacy Greek junta Καθεστώς των Συνταγματαρχών Wounded Knee Massacre Čaŋkpé Opí Phu Quoc Prison Nhà tù Phú Quốc Paris Commune Commune de Paris Abu Ali Mustafa أبو علي مصطفى ICE Servicio de Control de Inmigrac1ión y Aduanas Euromaidan Українська революція 2013-2014 років Al-Dawayima massacre טבח אל-דוויימה Operation Mongoose Operación Mangosta Internment of Japanese Americans 日系人の強制収容 Fred Hampton 弗雷德汉普顿 Muammar Gaddafi معمر القذافي Philando Castile Dilkii Philando Castile USS Liberty תקרית החירות של Shock therapy Экономическая шоковая терапия Palmer Raids 帕尔默突袭 Worker’s Party of South Korea 남조선로동당 1981 Seychelles coup attempt 1981 tentative de coup d’État aux Seychelles Operation Olive Branch Zeytin Dalı Harekâtı 2002 Venezuelan coup attempt Golpe de Estado en Venezuela de 2002 South Korean general strike 2021年韩国大罢工 Skull famine कवटीचा दुष्काळ Belt and Road initiative 一带一路 Wage theft 无薪加班 January 6 insurrection 2021年美国国会大厦遭冲击事件 Anti-Comintern Pact Patto anticomintern Castro freed the slaves 古巴的奴隶制 Residential schools 加拿大印地安人寄宿學校系統 Killing of Patrice Lumumba Kuuawa kwa Patrice Lumumba Paris massacre Massacre du 17 octobre 1961 Universal health care Asistencia sanitaria universal Taíno people 泰诺族 Congo “Free” State Onafhankelijke Congostaat Indonesian mass killings Pembantaian di Indonesia 1965–1966 1979 South Korean coup 12.12 군사반란 National Security Act 국가보안법 Emmett Till 爱默特·提尔 U.S. intervention in the Russian Civil War Иностранная военная интервенция в России Hemisphere project پروژه همیسفیر Unit 684 실미도 사건 American labor camps Yhdysvaltojen vankilaväestön palkaton pakkotyö Lobbying 美國遊說 1998 Russian financial crisis Экономический кризис в России (1998) Milwaukee protests Milwaukee kev tawm tsam Nanjing massacre 南京大屠杀 Operation PBSuccess Golpe de Estado en Guatemala de 1954 Black War 黑色戰爭 German-Polish non-aggression pact Deklaracja między Polską a Niemcami o niestosowaniu przemocy Colfax massacre Massacre de Colfax Kandahar massacre کشتار قندهار Annexation of Hawaiʻi 纽兰兹决议 Long hot summer of 1967 Mùa hè dài, nóng năm 1967 Great Bengal famine of 1769 1769 সালের মহা বাংলার দুর্ভিক্ষ Batista dictatorship Fulgencio Batista Military-industrial complex 军事工业复合体 Trail of Tears ᎨᏥᎧᎲᏓ ᎠᏁᎬᎢ United Fruit Company La Frutera Lugansk People’s Republic Луганская Народная Республика Bodo League massacre 보도연맹 학살사건 COINTELPRO 反情报计划 Taiwan Province 台湾省 Phoenix Program Chiến dịch Phụng Hoàng U.N. Resolution 73/157 План ООН 73/157 Dust Bowl 黑色风暴事件 Operation Urgent Fury Invasión de Granada Indonesian New Order Orde Baru Los Angeles riots 1992年洛杉磯暴動 1973 Chilean coup d’état Golpe de Estado en Chile de 1973 Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Ñe’ẽmoherakuã opaite tetãyguaita retã ihekombo’e rehegua US slavery Chế độ nô lệ tại Hoa Kỳ Poverty alleviation 精准扶贫 First Opium War 第一次鸦片战争 Planned obsolescence 計畫性報廢 Self-determination Motuhaketanga Greensboro massacre 格林斯博罗大屠杀 Guatemalan genocide Genocidio guatemalteco Genocide in German South West Africa Namibiese volksmoord 1904-1908 2019 Bolivian coup Crisis política en Bolivia de 2019 Iraq War حرب العراق Nayirah testimony شهادة نيرة Shanghai massacre 上海大屠杀 Dirty War La Guerra Sucia Breonna Taylor 布伦娜·泰勒之死 PATRIOT Act 美國愛國者法案 Julian Assange 朱利安·阿桑奇 Indian Removal Act 印第安人迁移法案 Free Palestine فلسطين حرة 没有共产党就没有新中国 Коммунизм победит!
the difference between our copypastas is the fact that mine is based in material reality. DEATH TO AMERICA
And the Uyghur bullshit has been debunked six ways to Sunday.
The US tried to foment division in China by funding and organizing terrorist cells in Xinjiang, and when those efforts failed it concocted and promoted a genocide narrative. Antony Blinken is still pushing this slop, just two weeks ago.
We see here for example the evolution of public opinion in regards to China. In 2019, the ‘Uyghur genocide’ was broken by the media (Buzzfeed, of all outlets). In this story, we saw the machine I described up until now move in real time. Suddenly, newspapers, TV, websites were all flooded with stories about the ‘genocide’, all day, every day. People whom we’d never heard of before were brought in as experts — Adrian Zenz, to name just one; a man who does not even speak a word of Chinese.
Organizations were suddenly becoming very active and important. The World Uyghur Congress, a very serious-sounding NGO, is actually an NED Front operating out of Germany […]. From their official website, they declare themselves to be the sole legitimate representative of all Uyghurs — presumably not having asked Uyghurs in Xinjiang what they thought about that.
The WUC also has ties to the Grey Wolves, a fascist paramilitary group in Turkey, through the father of their founder, Isa Yusuf Alptekin.
Documents came out from NGOs to further legitimize the media reporting. This is how a report from the very professional-sounding China Human Rights Defenders (CHRD) came to exist. They claimed ‘up to 1.3 million’ Uyghurs were imprisoned in camps. What they didn’t say was how they got this number: they interviewed a total of 10 people from rural Xinjiang and asked them to estimate how many people might have been taken away. They then extrapolated the guesstimates they got and arrived at the 1.3 million figure.
Sanctions were enacted against China — Xinjiang cotton for example had trouble finding buyers after Western companies were pressured into boycotting it. Instead of helping fight against the purported genocide, this act actually made life more difficult for the people of Xinjiang who depend on this trade for their livelihood (as we all do depend on our skills to make a livelihood).
Any attempt China made to defend itself was met with more suspicion. They invited a UN delegation which was blocked by the US. The delegation eventually made it there, but three years later. The Arab League also visited Xinjiang and actually commended China on their policies — aimed at reducing terrorism through education and social integration, not through bombing like we tend to do in the West.
Yeah. Considering how hard it is to cook up news sources that support your propaganda. There is not one reputable source in your references. And you start celebrating!
It’s not hard to find news sources that support yours: it’s been blasted in our faces all day every day our entire lives.
A KGB spy and a CIA agent meet up in a bar for a friendly drink.
“I have to admit, I’m always so impressed by Soviet propaganda. You really know how to get people worked up,” the CIA agent says.
“Thank you,” the KGB says. “We do our best but truly, it’s nothing compared to American propaganda. Your people believe everything your state media tells them.”
The CIA agent drops his drink in shock and disgust. “Thank you friend, but you must be confused… There’s no propaganda in America.”
All of the above is in US college curricula and none of it is controversial. It’s in history, polysci, public relations, journalism, and marketing schools.
Ah, yes! The yellow animal strawman! Do you people have some playbook or something? Look for something new. This one has become a cliché.
BTW, it’s not racist to insult an evil man or regime. But like any true evil regime, you spin that as an attack on an entire race. Nobody other than you even mentioned the Chinese people. It’s like those evil gangs that use commoners as shield. It’s just pathetic.
the hk rioters were cia puppets that wanted to return the city to colonial rule. only 17.4% of the population supported the protests and most were manipulated by western propaganda, backing down after finding out the truth. the prc is waaay to lenient on the sar imho
the so called “organ harvesting farms” are a an obvious lie invented by the dangerous doomsday cult falun gong, an organization that literally has a swastika as its logo. the only people still spreading that shit are right wing hacks like jordan peterson.
the many lies about the 1989 color revolution attempt are debunked here.
Do you eat Kool-Aide right out of the packet, without even mixing it with water? Falun Gong is an NED/CIA funded far-right cult that makes shit up all the time.
Ah yes, because China obviously is not an authoritarian regime that is just poorly veiled capitalism. China is full of the same shit that the west has, just in a different package.
I’m almost the opposite side of the political compass from current Chinese regime but even I must admit Sinophobia is out of control. It is totally cool to altogether dismiss and undermine any of their achievements and reduce 1/6 of humanity down to a single facet, all because popular Western propaganda says so.
Are you actually modding conversations you are directly involved in? When I have done modding, that would usually be discouraged as a conflict of interest.
You’re right, simple and to the point messaging is for dummies. Sophisticated liberal mind requires propaganda that’s full of sophistry and contradictions.
Hannah Arendt came from wealth and so unsurprisingly was anticommunist. Her work was financially supported and promoted by the CIA. This is a bourgeois liberal, anticommunist construct for the purposes of equivalating fascism and communism.
U.S. and European anticommunist publications receiving direct or indirect funding included Partisan Review, Kenyon Review, New Leader, Encounter and many others. Among the intellectuals who were funded and promoted by the CIA were Irving Kristol, Melvin Lasky, Isaiah Berlin, Stephen Spender, Sidney Hook, Daniel Bell, Dwight MacDonald, Robert Lowell, Hannah Arendt, Mary McCarthy, and numerous others in the United States and Europe. In Europe, the CIA was particularly interested in and promoted the “Democratic Left” and ex-leftists, including Ignacio Silone, Stephen Spender, Arthur Koestler, Raymond Aron, Anthony Crosland, Michael Josselson, and George Orwell.
There is a quote by famous theorist of World Systems Theory Samir Amin on this term:
The concept of totalitarianism is itself a false concept, invented in the contemporary era for the purpose of confining social analysis and critique within the horizon of so-called liberal, democratic, and insurmountable (the “end of history”) capitalism.
stop being a shitlib and educate yourself about the meaning of words before using them. comrade davel gave you some wonderful resources and you are dismissing them.
Ok, if you really want to ignore my point about memes and how they reflect poorly on those who use them for political messaging, we can talk about words.
Stating that a word was inventing by a rich person doesn’t make it invalid, stating that the CIA promoted an idea also doesn’t make it invalid. Nevertheless, if totalitarian isn’t a word we are allowed to use in you doubleplusgood circles, how about you give me a word that describes a country with a single party, ruling in perpetuity? I would say memes are useful for [insert your word here] propaganda
your question was stupid and essentially just buzzwords. rebuttals to absolutely everything you said can be found in comrade davels resources. also im not sure wether you want to reference orwell, considering that he was a snitch, a cop and a rapist (and his books are bad.)
Rebuttals to memes lacking context and being appeals to emotion? That’s all I actually said. You folks haven’t talked about anything except the impurity of the sources of my terminology.
how about you give me a word that describes a country with a single party, ruling in perpetuity?
You’re still trying to construct the thing we’re saying is nonsense. Typically attributed to Julius Nyerere: The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.
The US has has been ruled by the bourgeoisie since the 1776 bourgeois revolution. The wealthy, white, male land-owning, largely slave-owning Founding Fathers intentionally constructed a bourgeois democracy, which was never meant to represent us, and never has, despite eventually allowing women and non-whites (who aren’t disenfranchised by the carceral system) to vote. BBC: [Princeton] Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy
In socialist states, the “one party” is the party of the working class. The two major parties today in the US are parties of the capitalist class, as were the Federalist, Democratic-Republican, and Whig parties before them.
Excellent, the US is also one party. I don’t disagree. Now have you noticed that things are actually getting worse there now that all discourse is in meme format?
pure idealism. what kind of brainworms do do you have in order to attribute the determination of material conditions in the us to fucking memes of all things instead of the decline of the empire, as well as the sharpening contradictions of capitalism? clown shit
I would say that political discourse has become shorter, more emotional, and less informed and complex, and this very visible in the use of memes rather than arguments in modern politics. As a theory heavy person I would have thought you would agree that this is contributing to worsening conditions all around.
Our theories are materialist ones, not idealist ones. We believe that ideas fundamentally arise from material conditions. Those ideas do affect the material in turn, dialectically, but the material conditions are still the prime mover. Dialectical materialism (and historical materialism) are fundamental to all Marxist theory.
We reject the popular liberal theory that, if one presents one’s case well enough in the “marketplace of ideas”, that those ideas will win the day. That doesn’t mean ideas shouldn’t be presented—because that’s clearly what I’m doing here—only that it’s not sufficient. The capitalist class spends billions each year pushing their propaganda and suppressing any that oppose it. They know very well what works. Just having a good idea and presenting it cogently won’t cut it.
Memes aren’t even a new thing. 18th century memes don’t look alien to us. And we’re not spending all of our time in the meme mines.
I would say that political discourse has become shorter, more emotional, and less informed and complex
I’m not sure how I’d go about trying to prove or disprove this. Online social media ain’t everything. I think most people are abysmally uninformed/disinformed and disengaged, but I don’t know how I’d measure these or compare them to the past. In 1993 Noam Chomsky wrote, ”the general population doesn’t know what’s happening, and it doesn’t even know that it doesn’t know.”
That is not why things are getting worse in the US. I could go on at great length on why things are getting worse, but I don’t think this is the time or place for that.
This post is actually a great example of how memes can be effective. The meme is the hook. The conversation that’s being had around the meme is the meat & potatoes (apologies for the mixed metaphor).
Going back to an earlier comment of yours:
Memes are short, contextless appeals to emotion and thus the perfect format for propaganda
By “context,” I think you mean something different from what I’m about to say, but memes are densely packed with context: our shared cultural context. They are effective at communicating so much out of seemingly so little by leveraging our shared context. The a-ha moment of perceiving the meme through recognition of the implicit context is the hook.
You’re right that that is not at all what I mean by context. I mean the kind of context that can make what appears to be a simple question much more complex.
I would say this thread supports my position more than yours, in that the only engaging discussion happening here is a result of attacking memes as propaganda. The actual content of the meme （socialism and memes are both about sharing) has been almost entirely ignored, probably because it is so shallow and meaningless (as are all memes) that there really isn’t much to say about it.
One has to have more brain worms than RFK Jr. to think that democracy is measured by the number of parties. What actually matters is whose interests the parties represent.
lemmy.ml
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