As a backend person, lol no. I mean I can make a thing that works, but it will require eye bleach afterwards, and I’ll hate every moment of building it.
These are completely different types of skills. Front end is complex because there’s an explosion of different states driven by how the user interacts with the UI. On the other hand, backend workflows tend to be a lot more structured. You get a request, do some processing, fetch some data, and return a response.
The complexity of dealing with different states a UI can be in. The user can navigate the interface of an app in many different ways. The US has to be able to handle all the different combinations of actions the users takes. This means maintaining a consistent state, loading data that’s needed, keeping track of navigation, etc. The logic in an interface of an app like an email client is far more complex than most backend workflows.
Yeah, that could be reasonably complex I guess. I’ve never dealt with more than one navigation structure in a UI, like that would have. All the memes are about clients wanting it to look different.
I mean… the browser can do all that shit itself, just give it some HTML and stylesheets. It’s incredibly important to realize that nearly all this complexity is optional - it may make sense for Facebook to invest this much in a UI but most companies could get away with plain ol’ html with a bit of styling.
As a front end developer you should know when things like infinite loading dynamic tables with a search bar add significant value and when <table> is good enough. Maintaining complex systems costs money and developers should always advocate for the simplest most sustainable solution to a problem. I think we have a real issue with pursuing shiny new technologies.
I mean… the database does all the shit itself, just give it some SQL queries. It’s incredibly important to realize that nearly all this complexity is optional - it may make sense for Facebook to invest this much in their backend infrastructure but most companies could get away with plain ol’ script that on top of Postgres.
As a backend developer you should know when things like load balancing and and complex db schemas add little value, a single table is good enough. Maintaining complex systems costs money and developers should always advocate for the simplest most sustainable solution to a problem. I think we have a real issue with pursuing shiny new technologies.
Absolutely, it’s why at our company I laid the groundwork to eventually adopt a read replica based database approach but didn’t push to actually set up such an environment until about six years later when we had a compelling reason to switch. I work in PHP and the language itself is pretty irrelevant because most pages are just some validation and then shuffling the request off to the database - it doesn’t make sense to over engineer since you’ll end up paying to maintain things that don’t benefit you.
Using a single table is almost always a bad idea though - for prototyping it can make sense but strong typing ends off paying off quickly in not having to write defensive code.
People on all sides are guilty of over complicating things and it’s not helpful for building an agile product. I’d say that there’s a generally accepted assumption that “modern web” means react or some other flavor of SPA - these are amazing tools but aren’t always necessary. Tools are powerful, but you should understand what you’re using and have a justification as to why (or at least make it obvious that decisions were made arbitrarily since sometimes you’ve just got to choose one).
Nobody is arguing for overcomplicating things, and it’s true that a lot of projects out there are in fact overdesigned. However, there are also non-trivial applications out there, and front-end can in fact be complex in such apps. For example, I worked at a hospital at one point, and my team built an application that allowed multiple users to work collaboratively on shared documents seeing each other’s changes in real time. That’s a kind of app that is non-trivial, and where there’s plenty of legitimate complexity to be found both on the frontedn and the backend.
A simple web app will be okay with some HTML forms, sure. But something like a multi step wizard will lead you down the path of storing a huge amount of state on the server side, which turns into a mess. We have a wizard that uses Django’s forms and django-formtools’s wizard. You have to put the state and complexity somewhere. We put it in the backend and I can’t say I like how it turned out. The code is spaghetti and we get a stream of errors from people not acting how they’re expected to act.
Making good UX is fucking hard. I say UX because making it good is really about the user’s experience, not graphic design. An ugly front end can be good if it’s intuitive and easy to use. But a visually gorgeous front end will still be garbage if it’s clunky and confusing.
It’s really something you have to experience to fully understand. Ultimately it comes down to this: front ends have to deal with people, backends only have to deal with computers. So backends can be cleanly organized and well structured. Applying backend design principles to a front end will get you a CRUD interface - something that’s usable but no one really wants to use.
You need to be able to do layout design to do good ux. The visual presentation is a critical aspect of usability. Also backend code needs to be consumable future readers (including the author). That’s something that is very often lost and you get terrible unorganized backed code.
This is kind of what I meant. Appearance isn’t just colours and alignment, but also things like flow, organisation and layout. I can make the data theoretically accessible, but with all that stuff I’m completely out of my depth.
Write-only code can be an issue for either, while on the other hand complexity theory, big data structures and high math make me think backend.
His Noodly One created the world yesterday and through His infinite wisdom and power made it look like the universe was billions of years old with millions of years of evolution. I don’t know why you don’t know this stuff, it should be taught in school. This country was built on pasta.
The thing I find interesting about this image is that it oversimplifies the argument (like all internet politics), but contains the definition of the root of the problem from the side opposite that which the author is on.
See we live in a world where our livelihoods are based on us having things to do for income. Maybe someday a fantasy utopia will get built where everybody lives a life of leisure and can spend all their time focusing on what they wish to, but right now that doesn’t exist. So when everything is Made in China that means nothing is made anywhere else which means opportunities for work are reduced everywhere else. This is especially painful for people whose parents were well off because of the industry in the town they lived, only to lose those opportunities because the work went to China.
Now add to that the differences in approach between geopolitical Western and Eastern governments and you have the current argument.
Tik-tok is in the crosshairs because it’s convenient. Western Governments, most particularly the US, like to talk up the Free Market. Woo, Free Market, no government interference yeah! So just reaching out and legislating trade or manufacturing flies in the face of their ideology (not to mention that their campaign contributions might dry up if they piss off the oligarchs who are making big bank by manufacturing in foreign lands). Tik-Tok however, is perfectly situated. It’s run by foreigners who don’t fund political campaigns, and it has a practice that is politically palatable to oppose: Collecting data about Americans and storing that data within the reach of an ideologically different government.
He selected some items, before telling you which menu they were on. Then he told you he really only wanted to know how much they cost if everyone in his party got one. And then he tells you that he wants them delivered in order.
We’ll see how the White House looks after its first millennium and an earth quake. My guess is bulldozed and there’d be a few office buildings and a condominium instead.
If the USA invaded the USA they’d probably just lose again. I’m not sure that’s even technically possible but their past track record shows it’s inevitable 😂
Well the war in the USA would be so unpopular with the USA they’d be pressured to withdraw from the USA…but they’d stick around for another decade because defense contractors’ stonks were still doing great.
Most comments have been positive, so I’m gonna list all my issues. Using endeavours with KDE 6.2 and the AUR explicit sync patch, 5800 ryzen CPU and 3080 NVIDIA GPU.
The discord xwayland app can’t share screen, and the waycord app that fake chromiums the web interface that let’s you share screen has the sound bug out sometimes with large sound spikes. So if I want to share the screen I have to open the second app and then close it fast to minimize the chances I annoy my friends.
Window positioning. It almost seems a flagship Wayland issue. I would love if apps remembered on which screen and position I left them the next time I open them, telegram opens in the middle of the primary monitor, and I have to drag it to the right of the secondary one every time I switch on the PC.
Shutting down in any way that is not opening the console and typing reboot or “shutdown now” takes way way longer and sometimes bugs out. This might not be a Wayland issue, but a KDE one.
The tdrop program that let’s you interact with any terminal as if it were a dropdown terminal doesn’t work in Wayland, and it just isn’t the same to open a terminal in the normal way, is lame. Foot is a good terminal for sure but I want the dropdown effect.
I can’t think of anything else right now, most explicit sync issues I had were fixed with the AUR patch, so of anyone has those issues wait until the real patch comes around and they will get fixed. It was quite annoying without the patch though, some programs glitched visually hard and several games were unplayable due to the heavy ghosting (dark souls 2 and dragon’s dogma 2, for example). I’ll add to this comment if I remember anything else. Even if the issue was recently fixed it’s good to have a list of stuff so that people can check it out and confirm that it’s fixed, for posteriority.
You mean Plasma 6.0.2, not 6.2 - that will be released in a year.
Use X11 to Wayland Video bridge to get screen sharing working with any X11 app that can’t talk to desktop-portal/PipeWire (such as Discord)
What’s worth noting is that applications, as of now can’t affect window positioning in any way. It’s all about how compositor (kwin_wayland in this case) is placing them. Personally I don’t care that much because I’ve got shortcuts to quickly move windows between screens or desktops. You might consider looking at window rules - they’re pretty neat on KDE.
Shutting down? What???
On the tdrop thing, I wouldn’t expect it to be possible in near future, but how about Yakuake?
Yeah, 6.0.2, the version available in the arch repos.
I’ll check the video bridge, thanks! – Update on this, apparently I was already using it since it ships by default with KDE, it seems to be a discord bug. Weirdly enough, going back to an older flatpak version (0.0.42) fixed the issue. I’ll have to check the updates to see if they fix it.
Thanks on the window rules mention too. – Update on this, you are a saint. I added a rule for the telegram window in KDE so that it remembers its position, and it simply works. imgur.com/a/zrvbRPI
Yeah, idk, when I try to use the GUI it takes way longer than the CLI command somehow, and sometimes it blocks itself. It must be something related to some programming hanging itself and the system trying to wait until it stops, but I can’t be bothered, it’s way faster to open a terminal and just typing the command or opening KDE connect and pressing the “shutdown now” shortcut. Not a Wayland issue though.
I did use yakuake in the past but call it stupid brain, but once I read that alacritty was faster and I customized it to my liking, and then checking that foot was a little bit faster, I can’t go back. It’s stupid, I know that most of the use I give the terminal is actually spent on the commands themselves and that I can give transparency and remove window borders in yakuake, I’m just pissy that my fancy combo stopped working.
The tdrop program that let’s you interact with any terminal as if it were a dropdown terminal doesn’t work in Wayland, and it just isn’t the same to open a terminal in the normal way, is lame. Foot is a good terminal for sure but I want the dropdown effect.
Not sure why nobody would expect an italian inquisition of food, they literally have a unit in one of their law enforcement agencies trained to do things like find fake extra-virgin olive oil. Ive seen people jokingly call it “the italian food police” even. If anybody was going to run a food inquisition, itd be the italians
I actually got bucket loads of free time after finishing my studies, I didn’t know what to do with it. Like why does everyone always act like students have time? It’s a full time job plus you have to do projects and homework.
This prospect doesnt bother me in the least. I’ve already been replaced 5 times in my life so far. The soul is a spook. Let my clone smother me in my sleep and deal with the IRS instead.
Makes me wonder how many times I’ve been replaced. Also makes me wonder if I just died yesterday and today I’m actually a new person. I have no evidence that yesterday happened except for a memory of it, and let’s face it, since it was a public holiday, that’s a pretty foggy memory
I wonder about that. During the deepest part of sleep does your brain have enough activity to maintain a continuous stream of consciousness? If you go through two sleep cycles in a night does yesterday you die, and you from the first sleep cycle who only dreamed die, and you’re a new consciousness in the morning?
yeah, went down this rabbit hole recently: what if I’m the .001% that lives until <max age variable for my genome>? or what if ‘me’ is an amalgam of all the ones that die, and I get to live all those lives until the variable runs out.
Damn dude. Was each time a death? I think a someone’s following me around and snuffing me out. Mandela Effects keep happening. Also I’m getting elf ears? Reality is weird.
I’m sorry I understand those words not in those orders though, are you saying the soul is an olde timey anti-black racial slur or that it’s inherently scary?
Spook is from the german “spuking” which means haunting. Its use in this context comes from the german philosopher Max Stirner who is infamous for the memes where X is declared to be a spook.
Understanding what exactly spooks are is somewhat challenging, and plenty of people get the wrong ubderstanding about what is meany by spooks. But at least in the meme way of using the word, a spook is anything you think is a fairy tale, or nonsense that you don’t care about.
lemmy.ml
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