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Siegfried , to showerthoughts in Why don't low birth-rate countries make immigration to their country easier?

Oh boy, you need so much stellaris /s

son_named_bort , to lemmyshitpost in gotdamn

The gales of November came early this year.

MacNCheezus , to lemmyshitpost in gotdamn
@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today avatar

Since the latter doesn’t follow from the former, refuting the first point doesn’t automatically refute the second. Nice try, Lake Superior, but you might want to brush up on formal logic.

scytale , to showerthoughts in Why don't low birth-rate countries make immigration to their country easier?

Because most low birth-rate countries are first-world countries, and they generally want to only accept people who can contribute to their society and not be freeloaders to the social system. This means they need to filter out the people that come in, and being first-world countries, there is no shortage of people trying to get in. Sometimes they want low-skill, not-highly educated people just for the cheap labor, but not the person actually staying permanently, hence temporary worker visas. If a foreigner really wants to stay permanently, they then need to ensure that you are educated, able to support yourself long term, do background security checks, and make sure you agree to integrate as you mentioned in the OP.

bradorsomething ,

Ah, your post history tells me you’re in texas, that explains your post. I understand your concern about immigrants coming into a country without proper verification, swarming across the land and replacing the actual native population. Such populations usually move in and immediately assume the land is theirs, and do their best to forget the legacy of the original native people. We can only hope that arrogance and bigotry becomes less common over time.

scytale , (edited )

You understand wrong. I am an immigrant myself and literally experienced what I said. I merely recounted my own experience and the hoops I had to go through to be admitted into the country and be allowed to stay permanently. I have first hand experience of what the USCIS requires and checks in order to be granted work visas and the entire lengthy and expensive process to get permanent residency if you’re coming from a third world country. You are literally asked in application forms if you’ve ever applied for government benefits and how much debt you currently have, because that raises flags for them. You also have to prove your skills by showing evidence of the work you’ve done and what special skills or knowledge you have that a local can’t otherwise do. I’ve been denied a visa once just because the consular officer wasn’t convinced that my skills were special enough. It was a long drawn out process just to get admitted in. Oh and you also need to undergo a medical exam because they want to make sure you don’t have any serious issues that can potentially make you a burden to the healthcare system.

So before accusing someone of arrogance and bigotry, make sure you actually know where the person is coming from. I am not against immigration at all. I am merely explaining how the government picks and chooses who to admit into the country through their standard immigration processes. Show me a first world country that doesn’t have those requirements (except for asylum seekers). I’ll wait.

afraid_of_zombies ,

Lot of assumptions in your comment about someone you have not met.

thefrankring , to lemmyshitpost in gotdamn
@thefrankring@lemmy.world avatar

I wish Lake Superior would empregnate me.

sparkle ,

Why would you wish that

thefrankring ,
@thefrankring@lemmy.world avatar

Cuz I’m so wet.

clot27 ,
@clot27@lemm.ee avatar

lake junior

db2 , to lemmyshitpost in gotdamn

Imagine getting murdered by one of the great lakes and it doesn’t involve drowning. 💀

dditty ,

Many people actually die of Cold Shock/hypothermia before drowning!

wdio.com/…/not-just-the-waves-the-dangerous-cold-…

magnolia_mayhem , to lemmyshitpost in gotdamn

He can’t even get the order right. The phrase is “[thing] and also water is wet.”

birbalkumar , to lemmyshitpost in gotdamn

Why don’t you explore alternative financial options? If you’re in need of quick funds, consider payday loans credit score 400 guaranteed and no telecheck. These loans can provide immediate financial relief without the hassle of traditional credit checks, making them accessible for many in urgent situations.

abbadon420 , to lemmyshitpost in gotdamn

Apparently, water also burns

Senseless ,

As someone that has experience pouring boiling hot pasta water over my feet I can confirm that it indeed burns.

hoshikarakitaridia , to lemmyshitpost in gotdamn
@hoshikarakitaridia@lemmy.world avatar

Something something are these nuts fitton in you face…

Shirasho , to lemmyshitpost in gotdamn

You know what else kills a human? Forcing them to give birth even if they are not healthy enough to do so.

If you are going to make talking points at least be cohesive.

jeena , to showerthoughts in Why don't low birth-rate countries make immigration to their country easier?
@jeena@piefed.jeena.net avatar

Countries like Korea don't have a cultire of welcoming people from outside and therefor you would have so many clashes that a huge number of imigrants - which is needed - would destroy the country. There is no one here who knows how to treat and integrate those immigrants. There are no programs for them, etc. and even if you know the language you still have huge culture clashes.

june ,
@june@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

A lot of eastern Asian countries are extremely xenophobic in other words.

QuarterSwede ,
@QuarterSwede@lemmy.world avatar

I think there’s a difference between being prejudice towards an outside group and not wanting your own culture replaced.

There is nothing inherently wrong with countries and their cultures not wanting to have others integrate. In the past this is what helped them survive.

It’s only a big issue in countries like the US that want to be a mixing bowl/melting pot and also are being xenophobic.

june ,
@june@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Do you understand the difference between integration and immigration?

Yes there is something wrong with not wanting to allow people from other cultures to integrate into your own.

QuarterSwede ,
@QuarterSwede@lemmy.world avatar

We definitely disagree.

june ,
@june@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Because you are xenophobic yourself, yes.

QuarterSwede ,
@QuarterSwede@lemmy.world avatar

That’s a weak argument. Just because I bring up another point of view doesn’t mean I subscribe to the view mentioned, which I don’t.

If a country doesn’t want to allow immigration then that’s perfectly moral. It may eventually kill their culture off in the long run but it’s not xenophobic by definition.

If a country does allow immigration and then is prejudice towards a group coming in then absolutely that’s xenophobic.

june , (edited )
@june@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Backtrack if you want, but what you said was xenophobic by definition and I’m not going to bother arguing semantics.

Edit: I like how you completely changed your comment after I replied. Very cool

jeena ,
@jeena@piefed.jeena.net avatar

I mean to some degree yes, but as I said they are absolutely not prepared for it and have no one who could do the work of preparation of integration of migrants.

card797 , to showerthoughts in Why don't low birth-rate countries make immigration to their country easier?

You have to feed and house the people. The people currently living in those countries may have a shortage of housing already.

I think the “baby boom” from years past has shown that there are too many people around. It’s too costly to raise their own kids. People are xenophobic and don’t want many immigrants changing their cultures.

bradorsomething ,

The issue becomes caring for the boom population and maintaining a stable economy at the same time. Immigration is a natural support to the pressure of worker shortages, and countries that don’t accept this will learn long, hard lessons in capitalism, and pay a premium for end of life care to compete with other jobs in demand that are much more desirable.

lorty , to showerthoughts in Why don't low birth-rate countries make immigration to their country easier?
@lorty@lemmy.ml avatar

Xenophobia propped up by political groups. Many official immigration programs existed in the 19th century that, when allowed to, had immigrants integrated into society.

fubarx , to showerthoughts in Why don't low birth-rate countries make immigration to their country easier?

I talked to Japanese colleagues about this a lot. The issue isn’t just plain old xenophobia. In a lot of cultures, when someone gets married, there are considerations about marrying ‘the right kind’ for the family. As silly as that might sound to U.S. ‘melting pot’ ears, these could be tribal, economic, linguistic, geographic, class, education, age, gender, and yes, race.

In traditional settings, the elders have to bless that marriage, welcome the person, and ideally have the families mesh together and be on the same page.

Inviting foreigners with vastly different backgrounds on almost all those axes, it’s a pretty tall order to ask everyone to change those attitudes. And saying one family should close their eyes and do it for the sake of the country while their neighbors hold out for a ‘suitable’ match is going to be tough. The demographic ‘time bomb’ has been a known issue since the 80s and people are still resistant to change.

At some point, though, realities catch up.

My bet would be it would take a generational turnover and a few years of popular sitcoms normalizing it.

Alexstarfire ,

So, indirect xenophobia. That’s much better.

cucumber_sandwich ,

Call it cultural inertia if you prefer.

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