It’s considered a slur when you call a person that who doesn’t associate with the term. It’s no different from going around calling straight people gay. Do we or do we not respect people’s right to choose what they indentify as? It’s not like you get automatically banned for using the term. Context matters.
This article also seems to conveniently ignore the fact that all the actual slurs are considered slurs on Twitter aswell. It’s also an obviously and openly biased opinion article intented to provoke rage rather than objectional journalism.
If I were to troll people and call them white and whitey those words would not be considered a slur. Same with American, two footed, food chewer or bloodtype A+. Yet cisgender deserves special attention from Musk.
You’re not engaging with any of the arguments I’m making.
Of all the social media platforms Lemmy seems like the least likely place for me having to speak against misgendering people. Can you really not imagine how a transgender person would feel when the term CIS is forced upon them from the outside?
No you are not engaging with the arguments I am making. Respect for what people associate with is different from a word being a slur, or treated as such. Going around calling people who does not want to be <x> is disrespectful and is harrasment but it does not make <x> a slur in a general sense.
Cisgendered is a word to describe people’s gender identity, not for insulting.
Yeah it’s not a slur just like the words male and female aren’t either but they can be used with the intention to insult when directed at people not identifying as such.
I don’t agree with labeling the term as such but I do agree with the core intention which is to prevent harrasment. I don’t quite see what the issue is here. This will not cause trouble to anyone using the term appropriately.
But it will cause trouble, because it is now (treated as) a slur on Twitter. Depending on how strict they are you can’t go around saying “as a cisgender” or having it in your bio.
TechCrunch reported on Tuesday that trying to publish a post using the terms “cisgender” or “cis” in the X mobile app will pop up a full-screen warning reading, “This post contains language that may be considered a slur by X and could be used in a harmful manner in violation of our rules.” It then gives you the choice of continuing to publish the post…
Your arguments seem pretty disingenuous to me. Of course nobody is saying it’s ok to misgender someone so I’m not sure why you’re pretending that has anything to do with this. If I call someone straight when they are not or vice versa, I’m an asshole, but that doesn’t make the word straight a slur that warrants banning from the platform. The act of deliberately misrepresenting someone’s sexuality might but not the word itself.
But the person isn’t trans and being called cis, or even trans but objecting to being called trans, they’re cis and objecting to being called cis.
Can you really not imagine how a transgender person would feel when the term CIS is forced upon them from the outside?
That’s like saying the term “male” is forced upon men, or the term “human” is forced upon everyone. Cis is the defined technical term, with solid etymological roots.
How can you know? Just because a person looks and acts male it doesn’t mean that’s how they feel inside. There are plenty of closeted trans people that would find that offensive. And what does it even matter? If a person doesn’t want to be labeled then any decent person would respect that wish instead doubling down and calling them “cissy” instead.
We’re talking about a hypothetical example. What I’m saying it is only comparable to a cis person objecting to being called cis if your example is a trans person objecting to being called trans. Both would be wrong as they are factually correct technical terms, and thus they aren’t being used as slurs.
A closeted trans person would be offended that you outed them, not that you called them trans when they are. Although, if they were closeted then you’d probably have no reason to think they were trans.
Calling someone “cissy” is almost certainly meant as an insult, though, because that’s not the technical term. That’s like calling a gay person a fag, or calling a black person the n word. Calling a cis gendered person cis or cisgender is like calling a gay person gay.
Rejecting a label isn’t really valid when the label applies to you. You can’t eat pizza and then claim you’re not a pizza eater.
And, at the end of the day, the measure that matters is not whether or not you like it, it’s actual harm. Calling someone cis is very unlikely to cause them harm. Calling someone a fag could lead to harm (eg Top Gear people driving through Alabama with gay writing on their trucks).
I don’t think it necessarily matters even if the label technically does apply to them. I can very well imagine a black person for example taking issue with someone bringing attention to their skin color. Not because they’re not indeed black but because they don’t want to be described in a way that might diminish other features about them that they actually take pride over.
Or in my personal case while I’m technically part of LGBTQ I still don’t want to be associated with what I consider a political movement and when asked I’d wish not to be described in that way and would absolutely be offended with people dismissing my request and labeling me as such nevertheless. Labels often are inaccurate and overly simplifying so plenty of people rather describe themselves with sentences rather than abbreviations/generalizations.
The point isn’t really wether it’s a correct term or not but ignoring the wish to not be called that and instead doing so with the intention to insult.
Yes, I intentionally gave examples that were open. Some black people take offense to that label, others take offense to “African American”, or whatever. People take offense to all sorts of things. In the words of Stephen Fry, "So fucking what? It’s just a whine.”
The point isn’t really wether it’s a correct term or not but ignoring the wish to not be called that and instead doing so with the intention to insult.
The term is not inherently an insult, though. You would have to alter it (eg “cissy”) for it to reasonably be considered an insult by default. Merely objecting to a term that any reasonable person would see as accurate and not an insult is not enough - it would just be a whine. If it was used further after an objection, then maybe intent could be proven, but that’s not what Musk is talking about here. He’s banning the term altogether and saying it is inherently insulting, when it is not.
He’s not banning the term. There’s no problem using it as long as it’s used appropriately.
TechCrunch reported on Tuesday that trying to publish a post using the terms “cisgender” or “cis” in the X mobile app will pop up a full-screen warning reading, “This post contains language that may be considered a slur by X and could be used in a harmful manner in violation of our rules.” It then gives you the choice of continuing to publish the post…
You mean we as in the Twitter moderation team? Are they banning users who misgender trans people? Somehow I assume this rule only applies to brainlets who are in fact cis but don’t want to use an inclusive word.
So a world where trans people are in the majority and all the trans governors in the southern US are obsessing about how my cis ass takes a shit at work after my morning coffee?
But “cis” isn’t an identity, it’s a way to describe the relationship between your assigned sex and your (gender) identity. I don’t identify as cis just like I don’t identify as short, it’s simply a fact of who I am.
Yeah but if a person asks not to be called that but does not elaborate on why, then there’s a chance that they may not identify as such and forcing that label on them is then potenttially misgendering them. There’s plenty of closeted trans people living their lives pretending to be someone they’re not.
Sure, but calling someone cis, even maliciously, or is very far from it being a slur. If they are harassing someone, treat them accordingly. But blanket banning the word, even when used to describe yourself or others non-maliciously, is a clear attempt to make it difficult to talk about trans issues on the platform.
Yeah I agree it’s not a slur. I never claimed it was. Just that it can be used to offend/insult people.
Also they’re not banning people from using the word. Using it just prompts a message asking if you’re sure you want to post that as is the case with actual slurs aswell.
It’s considered a slur when you call a person that who doesn’t associate with the term.
This is what you said, and what I was contesting.
And the message discourages use of the word as what is “insulting” is entirely up the the discretion of the moderators. There should be no message, because it is not a slur. There is no historic oppression of cis people. So you don’t want to be called cis? Fine, I don’t understand it but whatever. But that doesn’t make it a slur any more than calling someone “straight” is a slur. Will they put a warning on that, too?
You are mixing up several things at once, which is confusing your point that you offered to others, and causing them to react overall negatively, even though you have some correct points (as well as some incorrect ones).
For one thing, we do not get to decide what we are, and while we do somewhat get to decide what words we use to refer to ourselves, there is a line between what we personally want and what society will allow. If someone refers to me as a “human, member of the species Homo sapiens”, then I have no proper basis to claim that they are incorrect. Note that I can say that they are correct, but that does not make it so.
For another, whether something is “friendly” or not is not the sole basis for deciding what is vs. is not a “slur” - if someone sent me a message saying “you are a human, member of the species Homo sapiens”… every second of every day, in perpetuity, then that (DDOS attack) is not friendly. Though it is also not a “slur”.
“Cissy” is most definitely a slur, no matter how you look at it - the altered spelling, the similarity to “sissy”, etc. “It’s considered a slur when…” - no, it just is a slur, period. The wiktionary definition of slur includes the phrase “socially unacceptable”, not “personally unacceptable” but socially so. Note that while it does include the phrase “extremely offensive”, that is also followed by the word “and”, i.e. to be considered a slur something must be both, not one or the other.
Similarly, the other word “cis” - like Homo sapiens - is not a slur, b/c it is not “socially unacceptable” (even if someone finds it personally thus). Perhaps you meant “It’s considered unfriendly when…”? But that’s not the same thing as it being an actual “slur”.
Though you could legit have meant “socially unacceptable”, in which case you would be buying into Elon Musk’s radical alterations of existing society, as he works to mold it into what he thinks rather it should become in the future. If true though, note that calling someone “cis” - very much unlike calling a straight person gay -has not historically been considered “socially unacceptable”. This addition of the word “cis” to become a “slur” is picking and choosing who gets to define what “society” is. Elon gets to pick, and now anyone who uses it - and whatever other words he decides to add also, perhaps “Homo sapiens” will be added tomorrow? - will have to jump through additional hoops if they want to use it, on his platform.
Which btw is an obvious attention-grabbing tactic, just like the article, except he did it first, knowing that the latter would follow. Anyway, Elon did what he did, and the article did what it did, but you and I get to decide what we will do. So I hope these words help as you think about the subject.
Basically it may boil down to: does Might make Right? If not, then the work is upon us to determine what actually does. Though this is far too simplistic: b/c on “his” platform, he kinda does have the right to do as he pleases, subject to federal and international laws, though we also have the right to leave or ignore or speak poorly about his platform too - he has his rights, and we have ours. So perhaps a better question is “should Might make Right”? And again, if not then what would - e.g. should someone be allowed to call me a Homo sapiens, even if I were to be offended by such a term? Or a more apt analogy seems to be: if I were to have transitioned genders, then am I “trans” in that case? What about “tranny”?
I wish that was the case but sadly most of them are basically Bing or Google frontends or belong to entities that I trust even less. As far as I can tell there are very few independent crawls out there.
SearXNG is great at what it does but it falls into the Bing/Google/etc-frontend category since it just forwards your query to one of the search engines it has modules for. It doesn’t have its own crawl and index.
Kagi has been doing a decent job for me, with the downside that it’s paid, and does use results from other places.
They go into detail about how they work, but it’s them paying for results from lots of engines, plus their own engine, then heavy duty filtering of the results.
Plus a ML results summarizer you can press after searching.
Is that why they spent millions to defeat a law in CA that would have clarified that their employees are in fact employees and should be covered by minimum wage laws?
I have to wonder how hard it would be to build some kind of open source platform to compete with these companies. Then the drivers will be free to set their own rates and this rent-seeking behavior can be undermined.
I have to wonder how hard it would be to build some kind of open source platform to compete with these companies.
I'd have to imagine that the answer to that is "really damn hard". Look at any Lemmy instance and see how hard it is just to create and maintain an open source "comment section for the internet" platform; now imagine managing thousands of financial transactions on that platform, processing background checks, establishing some sort of trust and security team, and people's livelihoods depending on that all working reliably all the time.
There's a reason why only VC-backed companies have managed to get off the ground in this space; it's hella expensive for a bunch of volunteers to manage.
I’ve always thought that a smart contract system on a blockchain like Ethereum could make for a really good ride share app that’s focused on the drivers running their own independent business.
It would solve the payments problem. It could also automate the requesting and accepting a ride.
The drivers could post their own rates
The contract could take a small fee out of the ride fare to help fund the devs.
And with the latest Ethereum upgrade this week, you could transact for pennies.
I’m still not sure how decentralized trust would work though, and how you’d get licensed.
Real time map updates might be a problem too, but maybe the driver app and rider app could find each other and open a websocket and stream GPS locations peer to peer instead of via any centralized server? This part might be more janky at first vs a central service.
Edit: and the service could run on a stable coin so people aren’t subject to volatility
Edit: just thinking on the GPS… if the driver publicly posts a web socket/api address you can connect to peer to peer, what if it only accepts connections by the current active ride. So the riders wallet signs the app request to open the socket and then the two parties can start sharing their location? That way it only gets shared to the appropriate people. But if a driver wants to know where before accepting, the rider would need to publicly post the where, so maybe you only post to 2mile radius or something, and the actual address gets done peer to peer if accepted?
Edit: also the contracts are open source, it’s the front ends that would be the developers business, and technically anyone could copy the smart contracts and write their own front end to them, and if it took off, I imagine people would eventually write an open source front end as well. It’d help keep costs down as if you were too uncompetitive someone else could enter.
Edit: and if it was just an open source front end, no city would be able to stop it. It’d be forever accessible where someone could post they are available to pick up, and anyone could post they need a ride. Trust wouldn’t even need to be solved by this specifically, trust is a problem other people/business can solve and it just hooks into this.
Hahaha you’re right, it’s still not simple, it just makes the payments and connecting two people easier. The rest is still a lot of work and there are many unclear solutions to some problems.
It does remove all the need for centralized nfrastructure like AWS though which would lower costs
I think something like this though could be the solution to the gig work people getting the shaft. It’d give the power back to them.
This is what I wondered about a few months ago when people were saying that ChatGPT was a ‘google killer’. So we just have ‘AI’ read websites and sum them up, vs. visiting websites? Why would anyone bother putting information on a website at that point?
We are barreling towards this issue. StackOverflow for example has crashing viewer numbers. But an AI isn’t going to help users navigate and figure out a new python library for example, without data to train on. I’ve already had AIs straight up hallucinate about functions in R that actually don’t exist. It seems to happen primarily in the newer libraries, probably with fewer posts on stackexchange about them
AI isn’t going to help users navigate and figure out a new python library for example
Current AI will not. Future AI should be able to as long as there is accurate documentation. This is the natural direction for advancement. The only way it doesn’t happen is if we’ve truly hit the plateau already, and that seems very unlikely. GPT-4 is going to look like a cheap toy in a few years, most likely.
And if the AI researchers can’t crack that nut fast enough, then API developers will write more machine-friendly documentation and training functions. It could be as ubiquitous as unit testing.
Current AI can already "read" documentation that isn't part of its training set, actually. Bing Chat, for example, does websearches and bases its answers in part on the text of the pages it finds. I've got a local AI, GPT4All, that you can point at a directory full of documents and tell "include that in your context when answering questions." So we're we're already getting there.
Getting there, but I can say from experience that it’s mostly useless with the current offerings. I’ve tried using GPT4 and Claude2 to give me answers for less-popular command line tools and Python modules by pointing them to complete docs, and I was not able to get meaningful answers. :(
Perhaps you could automate a more exhaustive fine-tuning of an LLM based on such material. I have not tried that, and I am not well-versed in the process.
I'm thinking a potentially useful middle ground might be to have the AI digest the documentation into an easier-to-understand form first, and then have it query that digest for context later when you're asking it questions about stuff. GPT4All already does something a little similar in that it needs to build a search index for the data before it can make use of it.
That’s a good idea. I have not specifically tried loading the documentation into GPT4All’s LocalDocs index. I will give this a try when I have some time.
I've only been fiddling around with it for a few days, but it seems to me that the default settings weren't very good - by default it'll load four 256-character-long snippets into the AI's context from the search results, which is pretty hit and miss on being informative in my experience. I think I may finally have found a good use for those models with really large contexts, I can crank up the size and number of snippets it loads and that seems to help. But it still doesn't give "global" understanding. For example, if I put a novel into LocalDocs and then ask the AI about general themes or large-scale "what's this character like" stuff it still only has a few isolated bits of the novel to work from.
What I'm imagining is that the AI could sit on its own for a while loading up chunks of the source document and writing "notes" for its future self to read. That would let it accumulate information from across the whole corpus and cross-reference disparate stuff more easily.
I’m at this point pretty convinced that the US is like your friend in high school that never changed the oil in his car because it still started and ran, until of course it didn’t.
Don't try to understand memesters. I once installed one 7zip instead of WinRAR, and he installed the latter because "it's free, you just have to click the button and wait a little bit". It was even worse with the uTorrent vs. qBitTorrent situation, where the former is a de-facto spyware/adware, but the latter isn't in piracy memes.
People using WinRAR. “Why would people use WinRAR?” It has more features than 7zip (password, encryption, profile presets especially).
If you’re asking why Microsoft would include it as a format for their extremely basic compression tool built into Explorer… why not, it’s one of the top three formats.
What I mean is more options for those features. The profiles and password tools are especially clever. (Examples: Password organizer can be locked with short master password, great for quickly decrypting archives matching ANY stored password. Profiles can quickly encrypt using specific settings, including super-long saved password without entering it.)
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