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soulfirethewolf , to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform

Wrapping an internet messaging service with a text messaging system was probably one of the worst things that Apple did.

When I had switched to Android, I was hoping I’d still be able to use iMessage from my iPad occasionally, But eventually I had to give up because whenever I sent an iMessage from my email, my family would just try responding from there as well, Even when I sent a SMS message afterwards.

I managed to convince my father to download WhatsApp (since he doesn’t want to use signal or telegram, and personally, I don’t really like signals lack of external features like no smartwatch app or assistant integration. And I don’t know why not Telegram), but the only other messaging platform my mom uses is Facebook Messenger so that kind of sucks that it’s my only option for communicating outside of SMS. Can’t really convince my sister to switch to something else (and she blocked me on discord for whatever reason, probably because she’s 16 and going through this huge phase right now and I tend to use my sona for almost all online accounts as opposed to my real name)

My family kept complaining that by using something else beyond SMS, requiring them to check yet another messaging app, I’d be complicating their lives too far. But I’m still continuing because there is absolutely no reason for me and my family to be using SMS anymore, and I personally would like to have things like typing indicators and higher quality media back

On a side note, why is Facebook Messenger so much worse than WhatsApp despite being owned by the same company?

lemmyvore ,

They didn’t make WhatsApp, they bought it. And were smart enough to leave it mostly alone. They don’t even really need to outright spy on convos, just sucking in all the contacts, building shadow profiles and figuring out relations from who’s talking to whom is worth gold.

x4740N ,
@x4740N@lemmy.world avatar

What is that username

lemmyvore ,

Latin vora, from vorare ‘to eat or devour’. See “omnivore”, “carnivore”, “herbivore” etc.

Why, what did you think it means?

x4740N ,
@x4740N@lemmy.world avatar

I know vore is a fictional sexual fetish where a person consumes an other person usually as food

It’s real life equivalent would be cannibalism excluding the swallowing whole part

deweydecibel , to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform

The fuck is with all these comments? Since when are we siding with Apple and closed off communications standards around here?

my_blackest_day ,

Since we know Apple is the lesser of 2 evils and Google is a crying baby

snowe ,
@snowe@programming.dev avatar

Since Google is just trying to get people to use their closed off communication standard (they added a bunch of stuff to RCS and that’s what they want the eu to force Apple to use). And I don’t trust Google with anything anymore, not sure why you would. The killed by Google website is proof enough of that.

my_blackest_day , (edited )

I love the fact that Lemmy users here don’t know shit about how these tech works and they will jump on Apple hate every chance they get. And your comment must raise Linux and open source etc or else it will be an instance downvote.

JasSmith ,

The EU isn’t going to swap one closed proprietary service for another. If iMessage is included under the DMA as a core platform service, it will require Apple to permit interoperability. I.e. the creation of open APIs. Google, and anyone else, can choose to build connectors into their own apps.

mintiefresh ,

It’s a bit shocking to see actually. But Lemmy kind of surprised me from time to time.

Anyhow, it would be really nice to see iMessage work with RCS.

AWittyUsername ,

We’re not. Just calling out the hypocrisy of Google.

msbeta1421 , to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform

Apple will start selling subscription services to Android platforms including iMessage. It’s just a matter of time.

x4740N , to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform
@x4740N@lemmy.world avatar

Good old companies wanting to exploit the law

01adrianrdgz , to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform
@01adrianrdgz@lemmy.world avatar

finally!! i’ve seen how google has been treating the situation with apple and i kind of think apple does have a bit of dislike-bias for android because it’s open source and linux. well, i hope apple stops the green message bubble feature.

plz1 , to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform

So Google will reciprocate and open up its RCS platform right? Right? I doubt it.

Prethoryn ,
@Prethoryn@lemmy.world avatar

If this law passes they may very well have to.

JasSmith ,
plz1 ,

I don’t care as long as the result isn’t less secure or less private than iMessage is now. Google has zero percent of my trust at this point, on the privacy front.

Rootiest ,
@Rootiest@lemmy.world avatar

RCS is an open standard not owned by Google

plz1 ,

I meant their closed network for it, not the standard.

Rootiest ,
@Rootiest@lemmy.world avatar

Just thought it was worth clarifying since a lot of people treat RCS and Google Messages like the same thing when one is a Google product (Google Messages) and the other is an open standard (RCS)

Google Messages is built on RCS but if Apple wanted interoperability they would only need to support the open standard (RCS) not use any of Google’s code or require Google’s permission.

AaronNBrock , to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform

Until Google supports RCS on Google voice, I can’t take their requests seriously.

Salamendacious OP ,
@Salamendacious@lemmy.world avatar

That’s an interesting point. I have Google voice but I honestly don’t use it much. Are you a big Google voice user?

AaronNBrock ,

Yes. But it has “forgotten by Google” energy. It wouldn’t shock me if it joins the Google graveyard.

BearOfaTime ,

RCS is too little, too late. Its encryption is problematic, and people currently using it can tell you how inconsistent it is. It’s what you get when industry players want to control things.

Why build RCS when everyone could use an existing, extensible protocol like XMPP? Yes, XMPP isn’t perfect, but had the RCS consortium started there, then agreed to support specific features, we’d have a much better solution today.

iMessage works.

RGB3x3 , (edited ) to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform

All I want is to be able to message people using discord through Signal. Or from Messages to Whatsapp. And just be able to send and receive decent quality videos between iMessage and non-imessage users.

It’s so annoying having to juggle so many different messaging apps just to talk to people.

Why can’t it be like email?

BearOfaTime ,

Because each platform is for a different use-case. Discord sucks. It’s one of the worst UI/UX I’ve ever seen, and I’ve been using computers since the late 70’s…punched cards are only slightly worse.

13617 ,

I could understand that until I experienced discords new mobile UI and the countless competitors. Definitely discord is better than all the others

Jarix ,

Did you use ventrilo, teamspeak, icq, irc, any 90s chatroom?

Ui/ux has been pretty good for me who did in comparison

Resol ,
@Resol@lemmy.world avatar

Federated messaging services… this is actually a really cool idea.

But I guess big companies prefer walled gardens because it makes more money.

Rootiest ,
@Rootiest@lemmy.world avatar

Try Beeper!

Links all those services into one client using Matrix for the backend.

Drop me a DM if you want a referral code (that goes for anyone interested!)

pascal , (edited ) to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform

Oh, now you want Europe’s strong arm? Google? Now? Fuck off, you yankee!

EDIT: Also, we European literally don’t care. Everyone is using Whatsapp or Telegram. There’s no “Blue vs green bubble” war here in Europe, only America can get angry on such idiocy.

BearOfaTime ,

Let’s be clear - only a subset of Americans care about the bubbles. And it’s annoying to the rest of us too.

The iMessage approach is the obvious solution, Google had a competitor over 10 years ago and killed it. Signal took the same approach and killed SMS just this year.

It’s frustrating, because US has the particular problem of SMS being ubiquitous because it became zero-additional-cost for most people by about 2005. The same mindset that keeps people on SMS also creates the blue-bubble nonsense: ease of use and not having to think about it. Signal was making inroads on this, makes me wonder why they stopped supporting SMS.

I have friends who say “I don’t want to have to think about where to message someone”. Oh, ffs, do you struggle with calling their home/work/cell, or choosing to email or send a letter?

So yea, it’s not America vs the rest of the world, it’s us vs the complacent/unaware.

MySwellMojo ,

Call someone? In America? They’d rather text. I’m in one of these group messages, apparently my bubble is a different color. Though I like my phone from Taiwan, so they can deal with it

Rootiest ,
@Rootiest@lemmy.world avatar

I use Beeper and it blows the minds of those iMessage dorks

BearOfaTime ,

Lol, yep.

I don’t take unscheduled calls. My phone doesn’t even ring, I see nothing. All calls are forwarded to voicemail unless I’ve set them not to. I don’t have time for unsolicited calls (and 99.9% of calls I get are spam).

If my bubble color is a problem for you, it’s a problem for you, not me.

Let’s be clear, Apple users who refuse to use other apps are excluding 80% of other users. We need to make it painful for them, not help work around the issue. It was their choice to use an app that can’t be used by most people.

Hell, I carry an iPhone for work, and use multiple apps there.

Zummy , to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform

I get that this is a silly issue that only a subset of Americans actually care about, but if you think that Google is doing this for any other reason other than that they don’t like how popular iMessage is and want it to end, you’re fooling yourself. Google hopes to eventually make more money when one barrier between an Android and iPhone is removed.

Erasmus , to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform
@Erasmus@lemmy.world avatar

As much as I have been on the EU’s side on every case that they’ve had against Apple. This should be a giant red flag that Google is pushing this so hard.

miridius , to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform

Nobody in EU uses SMS, it stopped being a thing as soon as everyone had phones with internet and you could use better chat apps. So we don’t give a crap about iMessage being open or not.

Mr_Blott ,

I only just found out this year that text messages from IPhone or Android are a different colour in the US, and people would judge you on that.

Fuckin hell, that’s elementary-school-level behaviour 😂

sanitetah ,

I use SMS a lot, in the EU. So does, most of my family, and friends. So idk where you get this from? GF and her friends and family too.

uis ,
@uis@lemmy.world avatar

You probably use SMS mostly for getting codes

Kyiro ,

If you’re all on Android, it’s very likely you’re using RCS not SMS

straypet ,

Why?

erwan ,

Because he’s wrong, most people use text in Europe. Even if it’s addition to an app like WhatsApp.

straypet , (edited )

Only if you count receiving verification codes as “Using SMS”. Even my elderly parents only use messaging apps.

I don’t have anyone I contact through SMS.

There are a ton of different page patterns so I don’t think “Everyone” or “No one” is using SMS.

But, in my experience, they are used very very little by most people.

Rootiest ,
@Rootiest@lemmy.world avatar

My understanding is that while the US and some others quickly moved to unlimited texting plans, many European countries continued to charge per text so apps like WhatsApp become the defacto replacement

erwan ,

In France we got unlimited texts at about the same time as unlimited data.

I don’t think a plan with unlimited data and limited texts ever existed.

pajn ,

In Sweden I can’t remember the last time I saw a plan that didn’t include unlimited sms and calls. Only thing marketed is data. However if you really search for them I guess it’s still possible to buy something else somewhere.

Rootiest ,
@Rootiest@lemmy.world avatar

Yes this was many years ago. Nobody pays per-text anymore but the past restrictions influenced people’s preferred messaging services in a way that stuck

Kyiro ,

No, even if people didn’t use SMS, Apple market share is actually growing and it could lead to iMessage becoming dominant like it is in the US. Even if it won’t benefit us much, I’m sure Americans would appreciate the EU caring about it because the US government could never do it.

miridius ,

People with iPhones don’t use iMessage either. They use WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal etc.

Kyiro ,

WhatsApp is not a thing at all in Poland mate. It’s either SMS/RCS or fucking Messenger which has to be the worst one 😭

Honytawk ,
Kyiro ,

Might be a western/southern Polish thing. I only know my uncles use it to talk to their children in Britain.

miridius ,

Oh man that sucks! I already hate that I have to use WhatsApp with people who don’t have Telegram, I’d be so angry if I had to use Messenger and even more angry if I had to SMS

Xia ,

I’m in the EU, I still use a lot the sms

miridius ,

Interesting! Why?

pajn ,

What else is there to use? SMS is the only cross platform protocol that works. MMS is horrible and Apple refuses ro support RCS. Of course SMS apps auto upgrades to RCS if both parties supports it which is in practice only between Androids.

miridius ,

Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp, ICQ, FB messenger, Matrix, just to name a few!

pajn ,

None of those work without both people having the app and so provide a much worse experience over SMS, just why?

dependencyinjection , to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform

Although, I get the argument and sure go ahead and do it.

I have to laugh at Google calling for the regulation of Apples monopoly but are happy to maintain their monopolies.

It’s be like Apple calling out Bowers & Wilkins for high prices.

Or Bezos calling for more piss breaks for Walmart staff.

Glass houses and stones.

erwan ,

That’s how corporations think. For them the law is just a set of weapons against their competitors.

Fades , to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform

Google is so fucking pathetic these days. They can’t out program them so they cry to the EU instead

TheFeatureCreature , to technology in Apple reaches $25M settlement with the DOJ for discriminating against US residents during hiring | The DOJ said that Apple's hiring practices favored visa holders and left out US citizens and perma...
@TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.world avatar

aka 0.03% of their reported profits for the 2023 fiscal year. This isn’t even a slap on the hand or a penny found under the couch. This is a grain of sand on the beaches of a planet on the other side of the galaxy.

As has been said many times: Laws are made for everyday people like you and me, not for megacorps like Apple.

0x0 ,

Would be fun to fine companies by percentage with increasing values for repeat offenses.

Kyle_The_G ,

While we’re at it it would be cool to peg CEO pay to the lowest position available so that if the CEO wants a raise everyone else gets a proportionate increase.

keckbug ,

Cool, but tricky. It’d have the effect of simply contracting out loads of positions to sketchy labor companies

SinningStromgald ,

Which is why you include contracted, temporary, part-time and full-time workers. And/Or set limits on the number of contracted workers compared to full/part/temp time workers for the same position. Close the loop holes.

demonsword ,
@demonsword@lemmy.world avatar

Close the loop holes

big business owns Congress, they’d just bribe lobby for new loopholes to exploit

RobotToaster ,
@RobotToaster@mander.xyz avatar

And peg politicians’ pay to minimum wage.

_dev_null ,
@_dev_null@lemmy.zxcvn.xyz avatar

peg CEO pay (…) CEO wants a raise

This sounds like you’re talking about salary. This strategy would need to be tied to executive compensation.

Check out the wiki on how convoluted and fucked up executive compensation can get.

sfcl33t ,

That’s how punitive damages are supposed to work, according to John Grisham

ilega_dh ,

To put this into perspective, if you make $100k/y: this is $30

In other words: a joke

Edit: and full disclosure: I’m a full-blown Apple fan

LukeMedia ,

For more perspective, you’d need to make $100k/y net income tax. As a random example, in North Carolina with state and federal taxes, not accounting for any deductions, that’d be about $142k/y.

Adding this because with personal salaries people typically see and think of the gross number.

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