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Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform

The long fight to make Apple’s iMessage compatible with all devices has raged with little to show for it. But Google (de facto leader of the charge) and other mobile operators are now leveraging the European Union’s Digital Market Act (DMA), according to the Financial Times. The law, which goes into effect in 2024, requires that “gatekeepers” not favor their own systems or limit third parties from interoperating within them. Gatekeepers are any company that meets specific financial and usage qualifications, including Google’s parent company Alphabet, Apple, Samsung and others.

Fades ,

Google is so fucking pathetic these days. They can’t out program them so they cry to the EU instead

dependencyinjection ,

Although, I get the argument and sure go ahead and do it.

I have to laugh at Google calling for the regulation of Apples monopoly but are happy to maintain their monopolies.

It’s be like Apple calling out Bowers & Wilkins for high prices.

Or Bezos calling for more piss breaks for Walmart staff.

Glass houses and stones.

erwan ,

That’s how corporations think. For them the law is just a set of weapons against their competitors.

miridius ,

Nobody in EU uses SMS, it stopped being a thing as soon as everyone had phones with internet and you could use better chat apps. So we don’t give a crap about iMessage being open or not.

Mr_Blott ,

I only just found out this year that text messages from IPhone or Android are a different colour in the US, and people would judge you on that.

Fuckin hell, that’s elementary-school-level behaviour 😂

sanitetah ,

I use SMS a lot, in the EU. So does, most of my family, and friends. So idk where you get this from? GF and her friends and family too.

uis ,
@uis@lemmy.world avatar

You probably use SMS mostly for getting codes

Kyiro ,

If you’re all on Android, it’s very likely you’re using RCS not SMS

straypet ,

Why?

erwan ,

Because he’s wrong, most people use text in Europe. Even if it’s addition to an app like WhatsApp.

straypet , (edited )

Only if you count receiving verification codes as “Using SMS”. Even my elderly parents only use messaging apps.

I don’t have anyone I contact through SMS.

There are a ton of different page patterns so I don’t think “Everyone” or “No one” is using SMS.

But, in my experience, they are used very very little by most people.

Rootiest ,
@Rootiest@lemmy.world avatar

My understanding is that while the US and some others quickly moved to unlimited texting plans, many European countries continued to charge per text so apps like WhatsApp become the defacto replacement

erwan ,

In France we got unlimited texts at about the same time as unlimited data.

I don’t think a plan with unlimited data and limited texts ever existed.

pajn ,

In Sweden I can’t remember the last time I saw a plan that didn’t include unlimited sms and calls. Only thing marketed is data. However if you really search for them I guess it’s still possible to buy something else somewhere.

Rootiest ,
@Rootiest@lemmy.world avatar

Yes this was many years ago. Nobody pays per-text anymore but the past restrictions influenced people’s preferred messaging services in a way that stuck

Kyiro ,

No, even if people didn’t use SMS, Apple market share is actually growing and it could lead to iMessage becoming dominant like it is in the US. Even if it won’t benefit us much, I’m sure Americans would appreciate the EU caring about it because the US government could never do it.

miridius ,

People with iPhones don’t use iMessage either. They use WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal etc.

Kyiro ,

WhatsApp is not a thing at all in Poland mate. It’s either SMS/RCS or fucking Messenger which has to be the worst one 😭

Honytawk ,

Poland has 15.8 million Whatsapp users.

Kyiro ,

Might be a western/southern Polish thing. I only know my uncles use it to talk to their children in Britain.

miridius ,

Oh man that sucks! I already hate that I have to use WhatsApp with people who don’t have Telegram, I’d be so angry if I had to use Messenger and even more angry if I had to SMS

Xia ,

I’m in the EU, I still use a lot the sms

miridius ,

Interesting! Why?

pajn ,

What else is there to use? SMS is the only cross platform protocol that works. MMS is horrible and Apple refuses ro support RCS. Of course SMS apps auto upgrades to RCS if both parties supports it which is in practice only between Androids.

miridius ,

Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp, ICQ, FB messenger, Matrix, just to name a few!

pajn ,

None of those work without both people having the app and so provide a much worse experience over SMS, just why?

Erasmus ,
@Erasmus@lemmy.world avatar

As much as I have been on the EU’s side on every case that they’ve had against Apple. This should be a giant red flag that Google is pushing this so hard.

Zummy ,

I get that this is a silly issue that only a subset of Americans actually care about, but if you think that Google is doing this for any other reason other than that they don’t like how popular iMessage is and want it to end, you’re fooling yourself. Google hopes to eventually make more money when one barrier between an Android and iPhone is removed.

pascal , (edited )

Oh, now you want Europe’s strong arm? Google? Now? Fuck off, you yankee!

EDIT: Also, we European literally don’t care. Everyone is using Whatsapp or Telegram. There’s no “Blue vs green bubble” war here in Europe, only America can get angry on such idiocy.

BearOfaTime ,

Let’s be clear - only a subset of Americans care about the bubbles. And it’s annoying to the rest of us too.

The iMessage approach is the obvious solution, Google had a competitor over 10 years ago and killed it. Signal took the same approach and killed SMS just this year.

It’s frustrating, because US has the particular problem of SMS being ubiquitous because it became zero-additional-cost for most people by about 2005. The same mindset that keeps people on SMS also creates the blue-bubble nonsense: ease of use and not having to think about it. Signal was making inroads on this, makes me wonder why they stopped supporting SMS.

I have friends who say “I don’t want to have to think about where to message someone”. Oh, ffs, do you struggle with calling their home/work/cell, or choosing to email or send a letter?

So yea, it’s not America vs the rest of the world, it’s us vs the complacent/unaware.

MySwellMojo ,

Call someone? In America? They’d rather text. I’m in one of these group messages, apparently my bubble is a different color. Though I like my phone from Taiwan, so they can deal with it

Rootiest ,
@Rootiest@lemmy.world avatar

I use Beeper and it blows the minds of those iMessage dorks

BearOfaTime ,

Lol, yep.

I don’t take unscheduled calls. My phone doesn’t even ring, I see nothing. All calls are forwarded to voicemail unless I’ve set them not to. I don’t have time for unsolicited calls (and 99.9% of calls I get are spam).

If my bubble color is a problem for you, it’s a problem for you, not me.

Let’s be clear, Apple users who refuse to use other apps are excluding 80% of other users. We need to make it painful for them, not help work around the issue. It was their choice to use an app that can’t be used by most people.

Hell, I carry an iPhone for work, and use multiple apps there.

RGB3x3 , (edited )

All I want is to be able to message people using discord through Signal. Or from Messages to Whatsapp. And just be able to send and receive decent quality videos between iMessage and non-imessage users.

It’s so annoying having to juggle so many different messaging apps just to talk to people.

Why can’t it be like email?

BearOfaTime ,

Because each platform is for a different use-case. Discord sucks. It’s one of the worst UI/UX I’ve ever seen, and I’ve been using computers since the late 70’s…punched cards are only slightly worse.

13617 ,

I could understand that until I experienced discords new mobile UI and the countless competitors. Definitely discord is better than all the others

Jarix ,

Did you use ventrilo, teamspeak, icq, irc, any 90s chatroom?

Ui/ux has been pretty good for me who did in comparison

Resol ,
@Resol@lemmy.world avatar

Federated messaging services… this is actually a really cool idea.

But I guess big companies prefer walled gardens because it makes more money.

Rootiest ,
@Rootiest@lemmy.world avatar

Try Beeper!

Links all those services into one client using Matrix for the backend.

Drop me a DM if you want a referral code (that goes for anyone interested!)

AaronNBrock ,

Until Google supports RCS on Google voice, I can’t take their requests seriously.

Salamendacious OP ,
@Salamendacious@lemmy.world avatar

That’s an interesting point. I have Google voice but I honestly don’t use it much. Are you a big Google voice user?

AaronNBrock ,

Yes. But it has “forgotten by Google” energy. It wouldn’t shock me if it joins the Google graveyard.

BearOfaTime ,

RCS is too little, too late. Its encryption is problematic, and people currently using it can tell you how inconsistent it is. It’s what you get when industry players want to control things.

Why build RCS when everyone could use an existing, extensible protocol like XMPP? Yes, XMPP isn’t perfect, but had the RCS consortium started there, then agreed to support specific features, we’d have a much better solution today.

iMessage works.

plz1 ,

So Google will reciprocate and open up its RCS platform right? Right? I doubt it.

Prethoryn ,
@Prethoryn@lemmy.world avatar

If this law passes they may very well have to.

JasSmith ,

They have proposed exactly that.

plz1 ,

I don’t care as long as the result isn’t less secure or less private than iMessage is now. Google has zero percent of my trust at this point, on the privacy front.

Rootiest ,
@Rootiest@lemmy.world avatar

RCS is an open standard not owned by Google

plz1 ,

I meant their closed network for it, not the standard.

Rootiest ,
@Rootiest@lemmy.world avatar

Just thought it was worth clarifying since a lot of people treat RCS and Google Messages like the same thing when one is a Google product (Google Messages) and the other is an open standard (RCS)

Google Messages is built on RCS but if Apple wanted interoperability they would only need to support the open standard (RCS) not use any of Google’s code or require Google’s permission.

01adrianrdgz ,
@01adrianrdgz@lemmy.world avatar

finally!! i’ve seen how google has been treating the situation with apple and i kind of think apple does have a bit of dislike-bias for android because it’s open source and linux. well, i hope apple stops the green message bubble feature.

x4740N ,
@x4740N@lemmy.world avatar

Good old companies wanting to exploit the law

msbeta1421 ,

Apple will start selling subscription services to Android platforms including iMessage. It’s just a matter of time.

deweydecibel ,

The fuck is with all these comments? Since when are we siding with Apple and closed off communications standards around here?

my_blackest_day ,

Since we know Apple is the lesser of 2 evils and Google is a crying baby

snowe ,
@snowe@programming.dev avatar

Since Google is just trying to get people to use their closed off communication standard (they added a bunch of stuff to RCS and that’s what they want the eu to force Apple to use). And I don’t trust Google with anything anymore, not sure why you would. The killed by Google website is proof enough of that.

my_blackest_day , (edited )

I love the fact that Lemmy users here don’t know shit about how these tech works and they will jump on Apple hate every chance they get. And your comment must raise Linux and open source etc or else it will be an instance downvote.

JasSmith ,

The EU isn’t going to swap one closed proprietary service for another. If iMessage is included under the DMA as a core platform service, it will require Apple to permit interoperability. I.e. the creation of open APIs. Google, and anyone else, can choose to build connectors into their own apps.

mintiefresh ,

It’s a bit shocking to see actually. But Lemmy kind of surprised me from time to time.

Anyhow, it would be really nice to see iMessage work with RCS.

AWittyUsername ,

We’re not. Just calling out the hypocrisy of Google.

soulfirethewolf ,

Wrapping an internet messaging service with a text messaging system was probably one of the worst things that Apple did.

When I had switched to Android, I was hoping I’d still be able to use iMessage from my iPad occasionally, But eventually I had to give up because whenever I sent an iMessage from my email, my family would just try responding from there as well, Even when I sent a SMS message afterwards.

I managed to convince my father to download WhatsApp (since he doesn’t want to use signal or telegram, and personally, I don’t really like signals lack of external features like no smartwatch app or assistant integration. And I don’t know why not Telegram), but the only other messaging platform my mom uses is Facebook Messenger so that kind of sucks that it’s my only option for communicating outside of SMS. Can’t really convince my sister to switch to something else (and she blocked me on discord for whatever reason, probably because she’s 16 and going through this huge phase right now and I tend to use my sona for almost all online accounts as opposed to my real name)

My family kept complaining that by using something else beyond SMS, requiring them to check yet another messaging app, I’d be complicating their lives too far. But I’m still continuing because there is absolutely no reason for me and my family to be using SMS anymore, and I personally would like to have things like typing indicators and higher quality media back

On a side note, why is Facebook Messenger so much worse than WhatsApp despite being owned by the same company?

lemmyvore ,

They didn’t make WhatsApp, they bought it. And were smart enough to leave it mostly alone. They don’t even really need to outright spy on convos, just sucking in all the contacts, building shadow profiles and figuring out relations from who’s talking to whom is worth gold.

x4740N ,
@x4740N@lemmy.world avatar

What is that username

lemmyvore ,

Latin vora, from vorare ‘to eat or devour’. See “omnivore”, “carnivore”, “herbivore” etc.

Why, what did you think it means?

x4740N ,
@x4740N@lemmy.world avatar

I know vore is a fictional sexual fetish where a person consumes an other person usually as food

It’s real life equivalent would be cannibalism excluding the swallowing whole part

ICastFist ,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

Google and company can go fuck themselves on this one, and I’m usually the first one to bash on Apple for selling overpriced status symbols.

I’m frankly amazed at how much importance Google gives iMessage, when it’s not the number 1 messaging app anywhere in the world. Hell, even if you assume Apple halved its report of monthly active users in Europe, that’s 90 million people in Europe. Significant, but less than 25% of the total population of the EU

Outside USA and Canada, you’ll be hard pressed to find people who give a damn about iMessage, because most are using a different, cross compatible app anyway, like Whatsapp or Telegram, even across most European countries.

Builtin ,

Why would you be against standardizing messaging over the net? How is that a bad thing?

MDZA ,

Because Google are trying to get regulators involved when it doesn’t really affect anyone?

Seems like a bad idea on principle

TheGreenGolem ,

In my opinion, ALL nessaging apps should be compatible with each other. It should be like email, just different clients on the same protocol. I know it won’t happen anytime soon (if ever in my life), but I’d like that. And we should start somewhere. Maybe here.

ICastFist ,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar
  • Because those aren’t internet messages, RCS is supposed to supersede SMS and MMS, which is how Google whatever (hangouts? talk? messages?) sends messages to iPhone numbers. Meanwhile, apple-apple communication via iMessage is done via internet
  • Because the standard is mostly controlled by Google and Samsung, Apple’s biggest rivals in the mobile space
  • Because Google has been completely anal about being easily spotted in iPhone conversations for quite a while. It is pretty obvious that this has nothing to do with using better standards. AFAIK, even phones that can use RCS have it turned off by default.
  • Because anyone with an internet connection already has access to several widely used apps that do much more than RCS does
notenoughbutter ,

because iMessage is probably the number 1 reason for iphone purchase in USA

this will obviously help google gain market share in the us

nave ,

I highly doubt it’s the number 1 reason for iPhone purchase but also, why would Europe be regulating something that exclusively happens in the Us?

galloog1 ,

You can highly doubt all you want but go do some research on current consumer behavior after you are done doubting.

someguy3 ,

Because apparently you get very annoying workarounds from the incompatibility.

mojo ,

SMS would basically be dead if Apple adopted RCS, that’s why it’s important. SMS needs to die.

Valmond ,

Honest question, should sms die because it’s being a paid for service or for the insecurity or both or more?

Firipu ,
@Firipu@startrek.website avatar

Sms is a 20+y old standard. Could just be sending smoke messages, it would be equally secure and feature rich…

mojo ,

It’ll probably always stay as a fallback, but because it’s an incredibly outdated protocol and lived far past it’s age.

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